AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

If you are rping with someone, and you are borderline hostile with them, and they randomly rest (obviously to get their health/spells back) Is that considered a hostile action? Can you attack them before they wake up?

From my understanding of recent PvP discussions, then answer is yes.

Resting and/or buffing (possibly healing, too, but I dunno about that one) is considered intent to try and smack you around.
If the RP is leading to a fight and they rest, I say take your opportunity and go!

Course, might want a DM or someone to verify, too lol

There is no such thing as OOC rest. Thus, if your character has good reason to believe that the wizard whom you argue with are fiddling through his spellbook to find the means to obliterate your character when he is done, then PvP is legit.

Yes, it's hostile and means you can attack as soon as you see them rest/Buffer.

Oh dear lawd in heav'n. What kind of severe narcolepsy do you have to fall asleep when someone is stood before you waving a big pointy sword in your direction?

Touching upon the buffing thing though, no words to describe how inconsiderate that is. The only IC reason is that, "...if I don't buff now, he'll kill me..." - then technically if my character doesn't just go on a rampage and slaughter everyone right now they might kill him/her, so long as we're talking pre-emptive measures. Thinking of that, I should probably go knife a tax-man because no doubt he'll be asking for money soon.

...

And the bin-men, they'll probably wake me up tomorrow. ... Hokay well it's not a good idea to mix IG with OOC so I 'suppose' the bin-men and, begrudgingly, the tax-man are safe for now. :evil:

Yes, and before someone brings it up:

If you want to RP a character that does have narcolepsy, don't use the rest menu. RP that they dozed off or something.
Just don't want to see anyone trying to use that as a legit RP excuse XD

If your RP has reached the point where its hostile enough for someone to rest, they shouldn't be able to rest because you should have already hostiled them.

Really? I was not aware that setting someone to Hostile prevented that.

Good to know!

Yep. Same as how you can't rest with hostile creatures around.

But yeah, if you're on the edge of hostiling, and someone starts resting, that's a greenlight. Who would have thought falling off to sleep could be so dangerous.

"Hey! Imma kick yo ass, boy!"
"Oh yeah old man? BRING IT!"
"Alright then! Here I go! *falls over, asleep*"
".... the hell?"
"*snoring*"
"....*walks over and coup de graces him.* Damn elderly orcs."

"I'M SO FURIOUS RIGHT NOW!!!! RRRRRRRRRGHAAAAAAAAOh wait a minute I used all my fury."

*rest...*

"...SO FURIOUS RIGHT NOW RRRRRRRGHHAAAAGH!!!"

To be clear though, does this mean if you are in a hostile situation with someone else and someone that hasn't talked to you or made any action, hostile or otherwise towards you the entire exchange, and has made no indication he plans to be involved, rests nearby, you can attack them?

If that seems specific it is because there was an incident where this happened to me recently and we had a discussion after and I don't think we ever really resolved if he had made a mistake or not.

If you are in a hostile situation, watching a hostile situation you are involved in that situation. If someone rested whilst my character was in hostile rp, the resting character dies, followed by everyone else that doesn't run away from the area, or at least back away and put up there weapons. Thats in line with my characters martial ideals and I don't believe it controverts the pvp rules.

Naivatkal wrote:

From my understanding of recent PvP discussions, then answer is yes.
Resting and/or buffing (possibly healing, too, but I dunno about that one) is considered intent to try and smack you around.If the RP is leading to a fight and they rest, I say take your opportunity and go!Course, might want a DM or someone to verify, too lol

Something as simple as equipping a shield is also considered a hostile action. (learned the hard way)

If someone rests in a hostile situation, you're welcome to attack them. No such thing as an OOC rest. Make sure to quickly set them to hostile before doing so, though.

Kudark wrote:

Something as simple as equipping a shield is also considered a hostile action. (learned the hard way)

So basically, anything that improves your odds in a fight.

On a related note, how about people clearly and deliberately stalling to wait for buffs to wear off?

Naivatkal wrote:

Really? I was not aware that setting someone to Hostile prevented that.

Good to know!

From what I recall, you can just unclick hostile in the player list on someone (it won't change your settings) and rest. It only toggels you though, the other guy will still see a red name for you. (read: turning on hostile turns it on for both, turning it off, I think, is one sided)

The pvp tool handles it a bit better.

DolphinRacer wrote:

To be clear though, does this mean if you are in a hostile situation with someone else and someone that hasn't talked to you or made any action, hostile or otherwise towards you the entire exchange, and has made no indication he plans to be involved, rests nearby, you can attack them?

If that seems specific it is because there was an incident where this happened to me recently and we had a discussion after and I don't think we ever really resolved if he had made a mistake or not.

This seems a bit gray area. If you're not involved in the hostile situation in any way, it'd be good to make this clear or back out. If you don't, you can be considered a threat, especially if you're with someone who is actively involved in the hostilities.

Weylyn_SotW wrote:

Kudark wrote:

Something as simple as equipping a shield is also considered a hostile action. (learned the hard way)

So basically, anything that improves your odds in a fight.

On a related note, how about people clearly and deliberately stalling to wait for buffs to wear off?

1st part: Pretty much anything you do to improve your odds are going to be considered prepping yourself for combat. Spot check to see you slip on that ring?

2nd part: That's an IC thing I think, and depends on who's doing what. One shouldn't look at the visible spells and then act when they disappear as that's metagaming, unless you're a caster and know what spells were cast and how long they last. Spellcraft check?
If the stall-ee is hostiled, they can act whenever they want.
Careful though, the stall-er might be caught flat-footed.

I say it's a completely fine IC tactic, but the person with the spells on should be aware of this and act accordingly.

You casted haste sometime before we got into our hostile RP(It was before we started talking or either really saw each other so not counting it as a hostile action). I am unbuffed, but I have enough spellcraft to know what that spell was. It's completely fine for me to think IC "Hmm, I'll wait a moment until his defenses fall, then attack!". Because, anyone with half a brain can figure out it's a little easier to fight someone when they're not running faster than the Flash on meth.

Now, you as the person with that buff on should be aware. "Gah, there's only so long I can afford to stay here and talk if I'm going to have the upper hand. This buffs wears off, and he might be able to smack me before I get my defenses up. That's it, I'm going to press the fight and attack while I still have the upper hand". You can always give the ultimatum of get-out-of-my-face-or-BRAWL or just walk away. Those are two outs to which the opponent must respond to right there or face fighting. If you feel I am stalling, then you always have the option to either press or try to end the fight right there. You can force a rather immediate response from your opponent if you feel time is not on your side. Just realize that response could as easily be fight or flight.

It's all perfectly good IC tactics, IMO. Cheesy perhaps, but playing dirty IC does not always translate to playing unfair OoCly.

erroch wrote:

From what I recall, you can just unclick hostile in the player list on someone (it won't change your settings) and rest. It only toggels you though, the other guy will still see a red name for you. (read: turning on hostile turns it on for both, turning it off, I think, is one sided)

This. I've had people rest after a duel in the arena before, while I'm still hostile. I didn't understand why until I did the above myself.

Yeah, if you're buffed and it's obvious that someone is trying to stall in the hostilities for your buffs to wear off, I think it requires you to push the situation or take the possible smack-down that may be coming. Like Dark Immolation said, it's a bit cheesy, but not against the rules at all.

If someone rested in the middle of a hostile situation, Coup de grâce would be in order from my point of view.

Curious; Do you -actually- get a Coup de grace attack? I know you get that with the spell Sleep cast on npc's, but do you get it vs a resting player?

Heh i thought this was related to you OOCly falling asleep in the middle of an event, like i did in the Count one, lol

Wolfking6116 wrote:

Curious; Do you -actually- get a Coup de grace attack? I know you get that with the spell Sleep cast on npc's, but do you get it vs a resting player?

No. However, you will get a few attacks off on them before they know what's happening which should be about the same if you do it right.

Last edited by Glyph on Thu, Oct 21 2010, 16:28 PM, edited 1 time in total.

coup de gras, rules, that way <--

also

Quote:

6. You must set all members of the opposing party to Hostile before performing hostile actions. You can do this with the tool in your inventory or through the player list.

7. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. If you have not set them to Hostile before, you can't blame them for having to act without it. Both parties should strive to set eachother to Hostile after the immediate reaction, however.

that said if you decide to attack me for equiping a shield without RP reason I will not be pleased. I have been killed while setting hostile before, if your going to demand pvp from someone, or force someone into a situation where the only escape is pvp, don't attack first.

large battles are more random, and hostiling every single person present is not viable because, the forest at least, ten more people usually decide to join in without a word.

ed: I guess the moral of the story is, try to follow the rules, and try to be fair.

There's quickslots for a reason. Nothing says you can't press F2 to bring out your sword and shield when the fighting begins.

holding a shield is a defensive action. if you attack someone -for- weilding a shield, well, a weapon makes more sense if you catch my drift.

Difference between already wearing and equipping.

you are missing the point, you don't attack someone just for wielding a shield, which is what I gather from this

Quote:

Something as simple as equipping a shield is also considered a hostile action. (learned the hard way)

obviously if your pretty much in combat, ready to set hostile, if they equip a shield then its slightly different. but its not on par with spaming pots ready for combat.

Glyph, equipping a shield means you're preparing to defend yourself. When I say defend, I don't necessarily mean in a completely passive way either. You may be preparing to defend yourself from the blows that are going to come after you smack me over the back of the head.

The same way Melf's Acid Sheathe is a "defense", the same as tightening your gear and putting your armor on is a "defense", the same way as GS is a "defense", it still could be seen as a hostile action. Think about a wolf bearing its teeth and growling. What does that say? Well, it could be saying "Hey, stay back, I'm ready to defend myself" or it could be saying "I'm about to eat you and turn you into poo". It's easy for bad communication to happen in tense situations.

That being said, equip a shield while we're about to fight, that tells me "The next thing he's bringing out is a sword, game's on". And what Wolf said, if you've already got a shield out when we're hostile, then of course no, it's wrong for someone to attack you just for that. Now if we're going at it verbally and you pull it out, then that may be seen as hostile.

I know what your saying and maybe i'm just thinking too deep into it as usual, but if you have not hostiled, and someone decides to get aggresive though text, and you draw your shield, is that cause to attack?

ed: at this point I would personally set to hostile, and probably ask if they are ready through a quick tell, one of the rules though less often used is confirmation, you have the right to back down, though I have seen little of the backing down, regardless of ecl. ...eh maybe I am just thinking too much into it, never happens quite like it supposed to in game.

I'd say it's borderline. I can't really call it one way or the other. I know in my case, I would certainly start taking defenses at that moment, if nothing else than drawing my own shield/sword. It may not be an outright cause to attack, but it certainly does call for escalation.

A tell is probably the best thing to send to make sure and then hostile or somesuch. For all I know your shield may have +4 strength on it. If you casted Bull's Strength, I'd certainly take it in a hostile manner, so not knowing the stats of your shield, but assuming they are helping you out in some way, it's not that hard to find aggressive.

Glyph wrote:

I know what your saying and maybe i'm just thinking too deep into it as usual, but if you have not hostiled, and someone decides to get aggresive though text, and you draw your shield, is that cause to attack?

ed: at this point I would personally set to hostile, and probably ask if they are ready through a quick tell, one of the rules though less often used is confirmation, you have the right to back down, though I have seen little of the backing down, regardless of ecl. ...eh maybe I am just thinking too much into it, never happens quite like it supposed to in game.

This happened to one of my characters exactly. I typed in: *he straps on his shield...slowly* before equipping the shield, my char. was then put down (to unconscience) by an invisible mage standing next to my verbal opponent.
Now, the two RP'd as they walked away that they thought my next action was to draw steel; even though I hadn't planned on it unless certain criteria were met.
My character assumed that's what happened as well, and that now he has yet more enemies out for his blood.

I was later told by a DM that that was a valid action on their part, and I never gave it a second thought beyond that.

Each situation is different, if you're unsure, try involving a DM before things get too far.

Nekhy wrote:

DolphinRacer wrote:

To be clear though, does this mean if you are in a hostile situation with someone else and someone that hasn't talked to you or made any action, hostile or otherwise towards you the entire exchange, and has made no indication he plans to be involved, rests nearby, you can attack them?

If that seems specific it is because there was an incident where this happened to me recently and we had a discussion after and I don't think we ever really resolved if he had made a mistake or not.

This seems a bit gray area. If you're not involved in the hostile situation in any way, it'd be good to make this clear or back out. If you don't, you can be considered a threat, especially if you're with someone who is actively involved in the hostilities.

This seems a bit gray area. If you're not involved in the hostile situation in any way, it'd be good to make this clear or back out. If you don't, you can be considered a threat, especially if you're with someone who is actively involved in the hostilities.[/quote]

I was honestly confused because what little participation I had in the argument that lead up to the conflict I was defending (verbally) the person who wound up attacking me, that's why I was curious where that falls on the rule thing.

Thanks for the answer ^.^

Goblin wrote:

"I'M SO FURIOUS RIGHT NOW!!!! RRRRRRRRRGHAAAAAAAAOh wait a minute I used all my fury."

*rest...*

"...SO FURIOUS RIGHT NOW RRRRRRRGHHAAAAGH!!!"

ROFL

Yeah, that is kinda lame...

Calins view on this is simple. If someone is acting hostile and sits their ass on the ground, he will run up and boot their head from their shoulders.

Alternatively, as stated above, hostile them.

Just be aware you should hostile wizards ASAP. Some wizards have been known to take advantage of the system by GSing before being hostiled, and running off to rest. They usually can get away with it also, because by the time you find their name on the blasted overcrowded playerlist, they have finished resting.

Yeah. And "warriors have been known to during hostile situations walk right up to the wizard and stand next to them. "

Be nice and be fair Selly, no dirty pool, anyone can throw generalizations around.

Dwagin wrote:

Yeah. And "warriors have been known to during hostile situations walk right up to the wizard and stand next to them. "

Be nice and be fair Selly, no dirty pool, anyone can throw generalizations around.

And that is why dancers are fun!

*shifty eyes* Get away from me you creep *hides*

Just hostile them if they rest..if they unhostile you, you just do it again..then they cant rest...its extremely ooc to rest in the middle of a conversation IMO

Right, no such thing as a OOC rest.
But, thats not to say that just because they are ~resting~ that they are sleeping.
Hell you could be standing against a wall, you lean back against the wall, and rest.. . Now from what it will look like, is that the person is sitting down, but RP wise, said person would be leaning against the wall resting, while fully awake... just catching their breath and recooperating.
Thats an IC rest, which can be easily done in such a situation... Or at least thats what I think can be done.
If it was indeed sleeping, not resting. Then that is different... but its called Resting, not sleeping... So, a rest can be a wide range of things.

Of course, if the RP is bordering on hostility, I would take the precaution and hostile the character already so that they could not do one of these sneaky rests.

-Rayne

And forfeit the surprise? Pah. Hostile 'Right before' the actual attack! It's 'Super-Effective' *Pokemon sound*

Very_Svensk wrote:

And forfeit the surprise? Pah. Hostile 'Right before' the actual attack! It's 'Super-Effective' *Pokemon sound*

**Shrugs** I don't pvp often or really at all. . . so when I do, I take precautions =P. . hell sometimes I've flagged someone for hostile and then no PvP has happend XD

Mm. Same, Actually.

It's a good indication that your toon means serious business when you tell Char X to -"Back off!" and Hostile them at the same time.

Aye, i think you should probably set Hostile whenever your character begins to have hostile intentions/thoughts about someone, not just before you're going to attack them. Problem with that is usually people think "Oh crap he's gonna attack me!" then pre-emptively attack them.

I....am glad I got some answers. Thanks all of Amia! *Big wave*

Falling asleep at the wrong time.

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