I would like to hear the views of others on this one. I'm planning to roll either a monk or paladin, and one aspect of their personality would be a vow of poverty. Now, there are ofcourse many interpritations on just what that is and what it entails. One way to look at it is what i like to call the communist approach, where the community (be that the monestary, an order or something else) owns everything collectivly and supplies everyone with what they need, though not claiming personal ownership over anything but what they are currently dressed in. Now, this is problematic on Amia as it would fall under the muling rule if several characters got togheter and made such a collective, atleast that's how I understand the rules. More problemtaic it also becomes if my char operates by himself. How can one follow a vow of poverty when the hoarding of gold is necesary to purchase better equipment as one progres in levels? One could ofcourse go for teh begging monk, but then arises teh same problem; how do you justify that giving said monk a robe +4 do not fall under muling/twinking?
What i am looking for are ideas on how to solve the problems with a vow of poverty so that both the vow and playability of the char can be upheld.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
I'd assume not having the best equipment (Unless you manage to lewt it) would be the obvious drawback of the vow of poverty. As for the mass amounts of gold you gather I'd expect they either donate it to those less fortunate or entrust it in the hands of their respective order/church so that they can distribute it fairly among the populace, or use it to spread the faith/teachings.
I've played a paladin who took a vow of poverty, I think the best way to go about it is to set an amount you need to survive on Amia while still being able to do what your duties ask of you. (I set mine at 10,000 for potions, supplies, such. Gold was just as inflated on the server I played as Amia.)
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<3 Maryn We are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
I came to the conclusion that the only way to work something like this - and still remain a somewhat effective character - Would be to wander around with close to 0GP, but if the opportunity came along to buy something nice, finding a shop that sells some nice Monk or Paladin Gear, you'd go out and gather those GPs. Don't hoard gold...just, go and get it when you 'need' it. The characters GP would be near 0 for most of the time, just occasionally jumping up. I'm sure there's some way of justifying that.
Edit- the only real downside is that without the high walking around GPs, you wont be able to buy on a whim, if someone sells something neat to Hilrash.
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Location: I'm pretty lost but I don't wanna be found.
If going for poverty, never buy gear, offer all gold to charity/donation bowl/trash. Monk will likely be better suited than paladin because their stats and abilities are suited to that very idea. I think it's very doable to get from 2 - 30 by adventuring in a party but not likely solo, unless using the job system.
Definitely doable.
Ending up with a mountain of gear in your inventory during an adventure wouldn't really go against a vow of poverty. Though I think that's more of an idea of opinion. As long as your character isn't keeping the gear for him/herself. After all, the more you pick up, the more you can distribute to the needy (or whatever cause the character is vowing poverty for).
Another solution would be just saying to the other members in the party (IC of course) that you are taking a vow of poverty and will not need such trivial materialistic objects.
When walking along a kobold infested road alone, well, then there are two ideals. 1) If there is loot, look at it but not pick it up in order to make it vanish after 2 minutes, or 2) pick it up to distribute it to the nearest city/town in need.
Whatever your character would do, really. Then if you find you have over 0 gp, dump it all in the temple of Selûne/ Yondalla's donations / or to a faction that your character would support.
The possibilities are endless.
But yea, for extra awesome points, no gear other than mundane cloth, I'd say.
_________________ "The householder's disdain for the vagabond hides a hint of jealousy."
Just because your character has taken a vow of poverty doesn't mean you have to run around with nothing, or less than anyone else.
Considering the weight value of gold and the amount people are running around with I have to say with some certainty that I'm absolutely sure that people are not roleplaying their characters as running around... with a baggage train (or several wheelbarrows, carts, or trollies) JUST for gold.
Roleplay and game mechanics (gold is being thrown in with mechanics), numbers, silly things, is something I abhore. But if you're going to take it to such an extreme as not only playing out this poverty, but not owning any gold mechanically... then kudos to you.
If this is the case, I'd go with what an above post stated - if you'll get in trouble for 'muling' otherwise: Wait for loot drops, and live with the crud you lewt.
_________________ "O God of Earth and Altar, Bow down and hear our cry, Our earthly rulers falter, Our people drift and die, The walls of gold entomb us, The swords of scorn divide, Take not thy thunder from us, But take away our pride."
Last edited by Goblin on Wed, Aug 11 2010, 12:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Too bad that you don't have access to the keep, because Justicar Marinsbane gives the best description of a paladin of Ilmater who is expressing poverty. Also there is an ig book about the knights of Benwick, which says that they were supposed to express poverty, but it was necessary for them to keep their armory and weaponry in a proper quality. If you make a paladin on Amia, who is expressing poverty, then this should be the best description for one and it will solve the money and the playability issue. A paladin is still a holy warrior who defends the helpless and he knows that he cannot do his duties properly without proper equipment. Beside that you can get a good equipment and make a worn appearance.
If you really wish to express poverty, then probably the monk would be the best.
If you really don't wish to have money on your character, then most likely the good folks in Kohl, Cordor or the Monastery will help you out with equipments.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
My goodie monk kinda has a vow of poverty, but it's largely from aloofness more than anything. It's not an official oath, he was just born into poverty, raised in it, and was taught to make due with what was available. He doesn't preach against indulgence, he just doesn't see the good in it for him. He has his body, he has his mind and he has his faith. He believes that's empirically all he needs to overcome anything.
He accrues money when and as he needs it. When he needed better equipment, he would sell or acquire however much he needed, and then no more if possible. I suppose a working vow of poverty on Amia would work something like that. Historically vows of poverty encompass a vow of non-ownership as well, meaning beyond the clothes on your back, that is all you own. For an adventurer I could see that meaning owning nothing more than you absolutely need. "Need" meaning to survive and defend yourself effectively. Mine for instance only has his battle gear and maybe 1 or 2 sets of casual clothes, both mundane. The rest of his inventory is just potions and ingredients.
He doesn't really even buy much of anything nowadays anyway, except potions at last minutes notice or rez scrolls and med kits. And now that he's finally become a master herbalist and botanist, he really doesn't even do that much any more. Despite being an epic, he usually doesn't have more than 5k-10k on him.
So my advice to the key of maintaining a vow of poverty on Amia: Be self sufficient.
there's a list somewhere of the amount of money in gear etc by level a pally should have.
maybe should do some sort of multiplication of that to get something thats in line with amian economy.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
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Sure it is Glyph. Just FORCE Your Rp upon people...
If they're still using ABC Occly, Well ... FORCE MORE RP ON EM!
God, I've played a rogue that sneaked extra loot in his Pockets... But people went bezerk on an OCC level. I had to FORCE my Rogue rp upon them for like 30 minutes before they actually did something IC.
hehe I remember the days of extra looting rogues or my forgetfull warriors.
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
there is one other thing, what about lawful evil monks? also which "charity" are we talking about here, salandrans? their own clergy? only buy from nimble and tsu ? you gotta get those monk only gloves from somewhere, and i've yet to meet a monk who isn't looking for that eighty thousand or so for +4 gloves and a new pair of regenerative dodge boots.
I check the rules in a min also but i'm pretty sure jacking all the loot to make up for the last few days of me not having loot will get me in OOCly trouble, but you know what, fudge it, I had three loots total yesterday in 8+ hours.
I mean monks and poverty is never going to work, too pricey custom stuffs.
I think you misunderstand Glyph. Monks do not have to take vows of poverty, I just want mine to do it, and he won't be LE, that much is clear.
And thanks to all who have contributed with suggestions, I think it will work to go along the line of keeping some money for what is needed to function in the role I intend for him, and give the rest away to various charities.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Considering the weight value of gold and the amount people are running around with I have to say with some certainty that I'm absolutely sure that people are not roleplaying their characters as running around... with a baggage train (or several wheelbarrows, carts, or trollies) JUST for gold.
In this kind of setting people wouldn't carry around all the gold they have made/earned/stolen. Banks would hold the vast majority of a persons gold and the person would only carry bank notes or notes of credit equal to the amount they have deposited in order to avoid carrying several hundred pounds of gold.
then put the gold in storage >_> its doable, I think.
also let me rephrase that a bit then, what charities will -you- be giving to, or will you be giving it to your deitys church? theres no delayed fireball relief ward on amia...also why not just buy exclusivly from monk merchants/masters and/or PC character stores?
I'm not saying I don't like the idea RPly i've just never seen a monk not buy the next best glove asap. including myself when I played a monk waay back, its expensive considering your wearing bedsheets half the time.
I think the best approach is to keep what is needed to "further the goals of the church" and give the rest away. That leaves you room to keep good gear and save a bit on the side for that nice +4 whatever you might need, but keeps the original idea in tact.
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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
Given there was a dude I ran for a while who used to do abyss with AC+2 armor, I'd say its doable.
You only need really good equipment if you plan to solo (or duo), and PvP. In groups, espically as a paladin with their very high AC and AB, its entirely possible.
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The /ONLY/ way to trully pull off the "vow of poverty" like the feat in the books, is to not own ANY armor, weapons, or wealth of any kind. what ever weapons, armor or wealth you get must be given away. furthermore, the feat gives special abilities that would require dm made widgets in order to reproduce the effects properly. it would be expencive to achive but if you were willing and able to pull it off it would be /AWSOM/!
90% of Vow of Poverty would never be given to you, no matter how many DCs you got. Book of Exalted deeds and Vile Deeds for worst two books in 3.5? Yes plz.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Joined: 01 May 2009 Location: GMT-8 Bangor, Washington
Just have to point out, why is it necessary to have a monk or indeed any character reach level 30 or have epic lootz and gears. For RP purposes, a level one can be as interesting to interact with as a level 30.
_________________ Sir Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun Winner of the Razor Tongued Award 2015!
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Neither a Paladin or Monk is allowed to loot the bodies of the enemies they slay. It's a sign of respect and wholeness when entering the afterlife, and doing so would desanctify their purification that you have offered them.
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While the actual book's stuff might not be given: the vehicle of a Vow of Poverty could actually be an interesting RP focus, and honestly you might yet be able to earn some abilities of a similar vein, but yet agreeable with the DM's and their comfort levels as well as balanced to Amia.
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