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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 1:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Location: Denmark
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is it allowed to make a 1/4 dragon without dm permission.
is it allowed to make a 1/4 dragon with no apparent draconic features
is it allowable to hide wings under a cloak..
just curius 
_________________ -Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us -Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 1:26 AM |
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I believe a Red Dragon Disciple is like....some tiny percentage of dragon anyway due to his blood. Nothing that would EVER show dragon features beyond those wings, but enough that he can say "I'm your great great great great great great great -etc etc etc for several 20's- grandson.
1/4 dragon being made in the sense of a 1/2 dragon is likely a no no.
Don't take this for the end word however or anything. Just what I think.
_________________ I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
Last edited by Selvec Darkon on Thu, Mar 04 2010, 1:26 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 1:26 AM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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yes, but you could just make a guy with distant dragon heritage instead of being another 1/4th. A dragon disciple only needs a little bit of dragon blood to get the ball rolling, and they tend to -want- to look like dragons and show off their wings and such, since they are actively seeking to become more draconic.
but when you say hide wings, know that you can't RP just not having wings at all, because you do. maybe you could get them removed but idk if you get charged DCs for that
EDIT: and what I hear in this from the OP is that you want the bonuses without the related RP, and thats generally a bad practice.
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tsukasa1991
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 1:30 AM |
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Joined: 18 Jul 2009
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i just have this to say to RDD players who wish to be completely uncreative and are looking just for some stupid ac and str boosts...
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT
i hate rdd class above all other things even more than hips.
_________________ Plays- Maggot Bucktooth (Retired) Giando Paladrious (Retired)
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 2:16 AM |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Save your rants for another topic, and don't clutter this one.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 4:26 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Kraniumbrud wrote: is it allowed to make a 1/4 dragon without dm permission. is it allowed to make a 1/4 dragon with no apparent draconic features is it allowable to hide wings under a cloak.. just curius 
1: yes
2: Ugh. Why would you, other than to get the benefits with none of the penalties?
3: WYSIWYG. But you do still have wings.
Frankly your post looks like a topic asking how draconiic you can make a character to be in the cool crowd but not look like it at all and hide all your features so no one calls you out on being thr freak you are.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 5:31 AM |
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Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Location: Denmark
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thank you for the answers, now i can refer it to the person who has done this
_________________ -Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us -Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Lord-Hadeis
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 8:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Location: Netherlands, Schoonhoven
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Quite frankly the only body part that NEEDS to be vissible is the face. You know going in and out codor and so. So I managine you can have lots of draconic features that can be hidden if it really most be so. Though you'll probably suffer from looking the hunchback with those cloak hidden wings.
A good character description would be wonderful with the proper hints in it.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 10:01 AM |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Glurh... Considering i had to request my Half-dragon, and that took a while + the time and effort i put into the request.
I'd say "ban all the 1/4" it's just a shortcut to the same Rp
_________________ Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/ NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 11:42 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2008 Location: Norway
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While on the topic of 1/4 race stuff...
What happens to elven blood in a half-elf that makes a child with a human, that makes a child with a human, that makes a child with a human and so on in a few more generations. Could small elven features surface from time to time, or is half-elf the least elven you can be while still being part elf?
For example; could a human child be born with somewhat pointy ears, or elven looking eyes if his great, great, great, great etc dad was an elf?
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 11:44 AM |
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007 Location: Denmark
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As for the cloak thing, while RDDs may have wings, I'm fairly sure that they're not actually dragonsized wings. Judging by the length of their "flying" ability, which really seems more like a long jump and a good landing, they shouldn't be too hard to pull against your back, and cover up fairly well with a cloak. I guess.
_________________ Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Neso
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 12:01 PM |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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From all the dragon-bloods running around, I'd have to say that dragons sure are kinky bastards.
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 12:14 PM |
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Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Location: Stalking around.
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@QPR That's an interesting question, I'd imagine the elven blood just gets thinner and thinner as the generations pass and you wouldn't notice anything much past a certain generation, but then again, some recessive gene might pop up unexpectedly somewhere along the line and give the respective individual slightly pointed ears or something.
_________________ Get Ready for ItForum lurker.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 12:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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QPR wrote: While on the topic of 1/4 race stuff...
What happens to elven blood in a half-elf that makes a child with a human, that makes a child with a human, that makes a child with a human and so on in a few more generations. Could small elven features surface from time to time, or is half-elf the least elven you can be while still being part elf?
For example; could a human child be born with somewhat pointy ears, or elven looking eyes if his great, great, great, great etc dad was an elf?
Mechanically:
Half Elf + Human = Human
Half Elf + Elf = Elf
Otherwise, the features continue as you will them. A human can carry slightly pointy ears or green eyes of their elven ancestors, or maybe it will disappear after a few generations. It's entirely up to your RP. The examples you gave are all perfectly reasonable.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 13:26 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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You can only make a 1/4 dragon with any features at all if you take RDD levels.
You can't say you are 1/4 dragon and that it manifests in anyway without those levels. So if you don't have your RDD levels yet but you're going to take them as a 1/4 dragon, you're not allowed to show your features sooner than upon taking your first RDD level. You're never born visibly a part-dragon without a special request.
I am quite sure this was the consensus of the DM team when I brought it up, but it was never posted apparently. Unless they all changed their mind when I left. >_>
There are no other combinations you are allowed to play than what's available on the Subraces page, and part dragon because of the class (which you must obviously take if you want it to show). Everything else is a no-go. Technically, this extends to 1/4 elf and everything else, but in practice you can of course play the child of a human and half-elf who retains some visible features of both races but is one or the other mechanically.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 13:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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What about those folks with lizard eyes, scales, and fangs and ...other weird stuff. That's dragon features, is it not?
_________________ Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/ NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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ainjyll
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 14:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Location: wilmington, nc
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Very_Svensk wrote: What about those folks with lizard eyes, scales, and fangs and ...other weird stuff. That's dragon features, is it not? nwnwiki wrote: Draconic Armor: The character becomes more draconic in appearance. His skin develops tiny iridescent scales, nearly invisible. This provides increasing natural armor bonuses to his base armor class.
The scales show up with the RDD feat Draconic Armor. So, every DD has scales because you get that feat at your first DD level. For my own personal flare, my Silver DD has lizard-like silver eyes, silver hair and if caught in the right light, a slight silver shimmer off her almost not visible scales. I think the attributes like eyes, hair, fangs, forked tongues, etc. are pretty much up to the player as to how they show themselves (within reason, of course).
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Merrien
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 16:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Sorry, but what does this mean?
WYSIWYG
_________________ 
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 16:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Location: Stalking around.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 16:55 PM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Very_Svensk wrote: What about those folks with lizard eyes, scales, and fangs and ...other weird stuff. That's dragon features, is it not?
Mostly, but fangs might also be tiefling...
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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Merrien
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 17:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Sylfwe wrote: What you see is what you get.
Thank you! I do also think the hunchback from the wings should be added to the description/rp if this is the case.
_________________ 
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P Three
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 18:45 PM |
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Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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It could also be that someone is trying (hard) to /hide/ draconic features because, while /they/ are proud of them, those that they have to deal with may not be.
You can't just always deny your blood or your soul's desires because the people around you don't want you to use them.
And all the "lizardy' traits, as Taelar could tell you, could also be demon/devil/yugoloth traits, ie. extraplanar.
_________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 19:55 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Merrien wrote: Sylfwe wrote: What you see is what you get. Thank you! I do also think the hunchback from the wings should be added to the description/rp if this is the case.
A decent sized cloak, one that is well over both shoulders and down to the calfs, could conceal a set of wings relatively well I'd think. Think about how a bird folds and overlaps its wings on it back, but vertical. Depending on the wing size and cloak, they might not be horribly evident.
I'd still say a decent spot roll could see the wing tips hanging down behind a PCs shins from the front, however.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 19:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Location: Denmark
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to lift a body just a tiny bit from the ground you need immense wings...and bird wings come out from teh side of the body and they dont have arms in the way when they fold it up, wings on teh back will take alot of space even folded up
_________________ -Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us -Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 20:07 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Kraniumbrud wrote: to lift a body just a tiny bit from the ground you need immense wings...and bird wings come out from teh side of the body and they dont have arms in the way when they fold it up, wings on teh back will take alot of space even folded up
Please, for the love of Ao, lets not get into the RL physics of wing-to-body ratio. In RL a humanoid of any decent weight would need a 20-something+ wingspan, bulky neck-back muscles and ribcage/shoulderblade reinforced with rebar to get flight.
The game shows you with a 10ft wingspan, you can fly with a 10ft wingspan. You can as well conceal them as if they were that size.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 20:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Personally, I reckon they use their innate magic to help them fly, like dragons supposedly do. But either way, it's pretty lame to suppose you could hide your wings. Not that anything's a secret on Amia.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 20:36 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Quote: You can only make a 1/4 dragon with any features at all if you take RDD levels.
This was never decided non after you left, so for the second time, stop making rules judgements when you're not a DM anymore.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Location: The Land of Nod
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SRD wrote: Jump (Str; Armor Check Penalty) Check The DC and the distance you can cover vary according to the type of jump you are attempting (see below).
Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.
All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start, which requires that you move at least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump. If you do not get a running start, the DC for the jump is doubled.
Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round.
If you have ranks in Jump and you succeed on a Jump check, you land on your feet (when appropriate). If you attempt a Jump check untrained, you land prone unless you beat the DC by 5 or more.
Long Jump DCs
Long Jump Distance Jump DC 1
1.Requires a 20-foot running start. Without a running start, double the DC. 5 feet 5 10 feet 10 15 feet 15 20 feet 20 25 feet 25 30 feet 30
Long Jump A long jump is a horizontal jump, made across a gap like a chasm or stream. At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet).
If your check succeeds, you land on your feet at the far end. If you fail the check by less than 5, you don’t clear the distance, but you can make a DC 15 Reflex save to grab the far edge of the gap. You end your movement grasping the far edge. If that leaves you dangling over a chasm or gap, getting up requires a move action and a DC 15 Climb check.
High Jump DCs
High Jump Distance1 Jump DC2 1.Not including vertical reach; see below. 2.Requires a 20-foot running start. Without a running start, double the DC. 1 foot 4 2 feet 8 3 feet 12 4 feet 16 5 feet 20 6 feet 24 7 feet 28 8 feet 32
High Jump A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead. The DC is equal to 4 times the distance to be cleared.
If you jumped up to grab something, a successful check indicates that you reached the desired height. If you wish to pull yourself up, you can do so with a move action and a DC 15 Climb check. If you fail the Jump check, you do not reach the height, and you land on your feet in the same spot from which you jumped. As with a long jump, the DC is doubled if you do not get a running start of at least 20 feet.
Vertical Reach by Creature Size
Colossal 128 ft. Gargantuan 64 ft. Huge 32 ft. Large 16 ft. Medium 8 ft. Small 4 ft. Tiny 2 ft. Diminutive 1 ft. Fine ½ ft.
Obviously, the difficulty of reaching a given height varies according to the size of the character or creature. The maximum vertical reach (height the creature can reach without jumping) for an average creature of a given size is shown on the table below. (As a Medium creature, a typical human can reach 8 feet without jumping.)
Quadrupedal creatures don’t have the same vertical reach as a bipedal creature; treat them as being one size category smaller.
Hop Up You can jump up onto an object as tall as your waist, such as a table or small boulder, with a DC 10 Jump check. Doing so counts as 10 feet of movement, so if your speed is 30 feet, you could move 20 feet, then hop up onto a counter. You do not need to get a running start to hop up, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start.
Jumping Down If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell. The DC to jump down from a height is 15. You do not have to get a running start to jump down, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start.
If you succeed on the check, you take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did.
Action None. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.
Special Effects that increase your movement also increase your jumping distance, since your check is modified by your speed.
If you have the Run feat, you get a +4 bonus on Jump checks for any jumps made after a running start.
A halfling has a +2 racial bonus on Jump checks because halflings are agile and athletic.
Fly A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. (Note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load.) All fly speeds include a parenthetical note indicating maneuverability, as follows:
•Perfect: The creature can perform almost any aerial maneuver it wishes. It moves through the air as well as a human moves over smooth ground.
•Good: The creature is very agile in the air (like a housefly or a hummingbird), but cannot change direction as readily as those with perfect maneuverability.
•Average: The creature can fly as adroitly as a small bird.
•Poor: The creature flies as well as a very large bird.
•Clumsy: The creature can barely maneuver at all. A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line.
Flight (Ex or Su) A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
Wings (Ex) At 9th level, a dragon disciple grows a set of draconic wings. He may now fly at a speed equal to his normal land speed, with average maneuverability.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Merrien
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 20:40 PM |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
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Dark Immolation wrote: Merrien wrote: Sylfwe wrote: What you see is what you get. Thank you! I do also think the hunchback from the wings should be added to the description/rp if this is the case. A decent sized cloak, one that is well over both shoulders and down to the calfs, could conceal a set of wings relatively well I'd think. Think about how a bird folds and overlaps its wings on it back, but vertical. Depending on the wing size and cloak, they might not be horribly evident. I'd still say a decent spot roll could see the wing tips hanging down behind a PCs shins from the front, however.
And butterfly wings don't work physically with ANY cloak because they never tuck back like that... meh.. ...sorry, just a personal observation, b/c until I can figure out (or it gets in game? need to ask) having an invisible cloak, Bubbles can't wear her nymph cloak b/c it totally hides the wings, which is so wrong for her RP I just can't do it. ...side tangent, sorry.... but I suppose if the cloak is the equivalent of baggy pants, lol....
_________________ 
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Quarter_From_Nothing
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:26 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Location: Finland (GMT +2)
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Stop flaming you two! Please, stick to the topic.
I think dragons should be able to be played by players. I would suggest that the level max would be 20 for them, as they would have all kind of cool things beside that. And! I also would suggest that they WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A LAIR WHERE TO LIVE ON AND GROW!
I am saying that after they reach level 10, they wouldn't get any exp unless they would have a lair. The lair should be either permanently bound to a dragon (which would be rather difficult with this big player population) and that new lair would be made for RP valid place for the dragon (mountain etc. depending on dragon type) or that they would be like rentable "houses" for week/month for huge amount of money.
Because dragons like treasures and all, to make this even harder, I would suggest that there would be certain box in the lair, where they would have to put money equally of the amount their next level would take exp. This way leveling dragons would be hard and best of all, somewhat unique and yet not so OP.
I know this will be pain to come true, and most likely never even given one thought, but I've seen this kind of thing work well. The dragons had fly ability, and they slowly grew in model size as they levelled too.
Over and out.
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:41 PM |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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1/4 Dragons currently remain open without request, iirc, though changes to this policy may change in the future (sort of petered out due to apathy), but no one will have to retcon their RP or change their builds regardless.
Edited.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Maias227
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:42 PM |
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Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Location: Denmark (GMT+1)
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I've cleaned out the thread of the arguing posts. Take it to pms instead of here.
_________________ ...Hereof follows that the social contract is only beneficial as long as all have something and none have too much...
- Rousseau Book 1 Chapter 9 in "The Social Contract"
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Bobo_Underhill wrote: 1/4 Dragons currently remain open without request, iirc, though changes to this policy may change in the future (sort of petered out due to apathy), but no one will have to retcon their RP or change their builds regardless.
Edited.
Thanks. But does this also extend to them manifesting powers?
That is, is it OK to make a 1/4 dragon with scales, lizard eyes, forked tongue, nine-inch talons, superhuman strength and scent, breathing fire? Without a single RDD level? That's what the question I raised was specifically about; not about latent 1/4 dragon blood per se.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Looks, sure, abilities, no.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:55 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Except looks are related to abilities, and you are traditionally allowed to RP some abilities (within reason) if you can emulate them with a class or an item. Thus, a Wizard casting Burning Hands could "reasonably" say they're breathing fire naturally. And I daresay the reasonableness of this is about the same as RPing a human-sized lizard with no request.
Please finish the discussion and make a decision. Your stance on this is not in line with the posted rules, and one or the other has to change. If this ruling is valid across the board, you could make a 1/4 Rakshasa that doesn't happen to manifest any powers and is therefore not a Tiefling, but does manifest furry ears and nose. Or a 1/4 Dwarf, 3/4 Elf who happens to look exactly like a Dwarf but not have any of the powers, instead getting the Elf racial perks.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:00 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 21:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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IronAngel wrote: Personally, I reckon they use their innate magic to help them fly, like dragons supposedly do. But either way, it's pretty lame to suppose you could hide your wings. Not that anything's a secret on Amia. I would be inclined to agree with you, considering the mass of someone with wings and their un-aerodynamic shape, I am rather dubious as to whether one could physically generate enough lift with those back muscles / small wings. Merrien wrote: And butterfly wings don't work physically with ANY cloak because they never tuck back like that
Not questioning your RP, I'd just though I'd point out that it is possible for butterfly wings in general since some butterflies rest with their wings flat (rather like a moth does).
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It's not 100% true according to the rules, I think, but it still makes more sense IMO. And it's a nice flavor, since RDDs do have innate magic. At least in some books, though they might not have been FR, dragons actually prefer to fly with their Fly spells rather than only wings, because it's faster and easier. I suppse some kind of a levitation at least would help RDDs get off the ground. More of a flavor thing, though.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Where exactly does it say you can roleplay certain special abilities? You keep refering to the rules, but I'm not seeing them.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It has been standard practice, and not explicitly banned. You can "emulate" some things within reason, though that "reason" has always been ambigious and undefined. There are some specific special abilities that are banned, such as Truenaming or Psionics, and they're mentioned seperately in the Creating Your Character topic.
You can reasonably draw a parallel between RPing special Prestige Class abilities (which are acceptable) and RPing breathing fire, though. That is, if your character has legit reason to do one or the other. And by approving a 1/4 dragon to manifest appearances, you effectively give them legit reason to manifest powers they can replicate with game mechanics, too.
The rules say you need permission for characters "with special powers, such as Psionics, Elven High Magic or Truenaming." Now, whether that extends to breathing fire on a PC who's already been allowed to manifest every other trait of a fire-breathing creature and can replicate it in game, is somewhat ambigious.
Either way, as the rules say:
Quote: The following races can be played freely:
¤ All the races and subraces available via the Amia Subrace System, including: ¤ Tiefling, Aasimar ¤ Kobold, Goblin ¤ Genasi Races (earth, air, fire, water) ¤ Orog, Ogrillion ¤ Lightfoot Halfling, Strongheart Halfling, Ghostwise Halfling ¤ Half-drow ¤ Moon Elf, Sun Elf, Wild Elf, Wood Elf, Drow, Feytouched ¤ Shield Dwarf, Gold Dwarf, Duergar ¤ All basic NWN races Among them, is not 1/4 Dragon. Moreover: Quote: The following races require DM permission to be played.
¤ Characters with special powers, such as Psionics, Elven High Magic or Truenaming ¤ Any human/elven/orc/dwarf/halfling/gnome subrace not included in Amia's supported subraces ¤ Any monster race with a special skin, other than those available in the Subrace Listing (trolls, gnolls, giants, driders...)
If you say breathing fire falls under prohibited special powers, then surely so do other dragon traits. 1/4 Dragon also falls under "any human/elven/etc. subrace not included in Amia's supported subraces." And I'd argue it even might fall under "any monster race with a special skin" if by that you mean IC appearance and not NWN skin. The latter is probably the better interpretation, though.
Either way, it seems at least two, possibly four lines in the Character Creation rules deny the possibility of manifesting 1/4 dragon heritage without taking the class explicitly meant to show it.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Fourth dragons don't get special abilities though (at least, to my knowledge). That's why they've not been slammed. Some appearance traits still crossover, but none of the special abilities unless someone specifically asks.
It'd be a bit like a half-orc and a human have a child. Mechanically, they're a human, though they may have some of their orcish appearance.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, I doubt Quarter-Dragons get the looks, either, if they don't get the powers. Scales pretty much mean better natural AC by default, after all. Claws mean slashing/piercing hand-to-hand damage, maybe higher than normal. And so on.
But that's beside the point. I may agree, but there's also the matter of cross-breeding: you can't really RP being a cross-breed of one or two non-available subraces. You couldn't be part Shadow Elf without request, either. If you want it for flavor, it stands to reason that you stick with what's available in the subraces. So a "1/4 Shield Dwarf" Human with a stocky build is fine, but a "1/4 Grimlock" (an unavailable UD race) Gnome wouldn't be. Similarly, because you're not allowed to play a Half-Dragon, you can't manifest the looks of a Quarter-Dragon either.
I admit it's ambigious and complicated, which is why I'm arguing about it. It should be clarified once and for all. I can't imagine why you'd want to keep 1/4 dragons with perfect lizard looks without the levels around, but that's your call. First and foremost, it's tasteless and cheap, whatever you want to do with the rules.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Mar 04 2010, 22:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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IronAngel wrote: I admit it's ambigious and complicated, which is why I'm arguing about it. It should be clarified once and for all. I can't imagine why you'd want to keep 1/4 dragons with perfect lizard looks without the levels around, but that's your call. First and foremost, it's tasteless and cheap, whatever you want to do with the rules.
I agree to a hundred present. Consider me and Dwagin, We have put up a Request for half-dragons. It took us maybe weeks to get them approved, and hours of work to fix the request up.
And what we encounter; Are basically folks who RP their guys just like we do. But -without- the request procedure.
You can imagine that -i- at least get a bit cranky.
_________________ Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/ NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 1:06 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Besides, I thought it was already agreed upon that there may be "1/4 dragons", but they'd just take a human appearance. It's fine to use that as a basis for them later gaining draconic appearances and actually going dragon disciple along with it, but it should not be a free "Half-Dragon-Lite" option.
Most of the time I've seen "quarter dragon" in a PC's description, it is as well hypenated with 2-4 other races. Yes, I've seen a PC with 5 total races, before. It's my opinion that a lot of the people who do this, along with the overboard race thing are just trying to make a character completely over the top in terms of "rarity". And I've nothing against that. They should just be required to request and prove that they can RP that rarity just like anyone would who wanted to RP something equally as rare, though.
Leaving the option open for the future just leaves the option open to make more "fad" characters down the line. Anyone who truly wants to not just play, but RP a quarter-dragon won't mind actually writting up a reason for their being in the future.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 1:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Location: The Land of Nod
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I'd prefer if you'd leave my PC out of this discussion.
WOTC wrote: Sample Dragon Disciple: Ivellios Amakiir (Gold DD: Lvl4)
Tiny, iridescent golden scales cover this tall, well muscled elf from head to toe. His long, black hair is tied back in an ornate ponytail. His hands end in long, graceful claws, and sharp fangs protrude from his mouth. WOTC wrote: Qualification: It is easy to qualify to become a dragon disciple (from the DMG pg. 183). You must already be a nondragon. Draconic-Crossbreed Template wrote: Draconic: (sentient creature who has a Dragon as an ancestor) (RotD p74) (Dcn p150)
Have some minor Dragon-like features, such as claws & tough skin.
Inherited Template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature.
Gain ‘dragonblood’ subtype. Animals become Magical Beasts
Str +2 Con +2 Cha +2 Lvl +1 CR +1 Low-light Vision. Darkvision 60’. +4 Racial bonus on saves vs. Magic Sleep & Paralysis. +2 Racial bonus on Intimidate & Spot checks. Gain two 1d3 Claw attacks (if Medium). Natural Armor bonus improves by +1 Draconic-Crossbreed Template wrote: Half-Dragon: (sentient creature who has a Dragon as one parent) (MM p146) (RotD p70) (DR321 p56) (DR356 p23) (Waterdeep p9)
Has scales, reptilian eyes, enlarged teeth & claws, and often reptilian wings.
Inherited Template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature. Becomes a ‘Dragon’ Increased hit die type (up to d12)
Half-Dragons of Large-size or greater have reptilian wings which allow Flying (Average maneuverability) at twice the base creature’s ground speed (max 120’).
Natural Armor bonus improves by +4 Str +8 Con +2 Int +2 Cha +2 Lvl +3 CR +2 (min CR of 3) Low-light vision. Darkvision 60’. Immune to sleep & paralysis effects. Gain two 1d4 Claw & one 1d6 Bite attacks (if Medium). Base Skill Points are now (6+Int mod) * (Racial HD+3). Gain a breath weapon matching its parent, usable once per day. It does 6d8 damage and the DC is Constitution-based. ‘Line’ is always 60’. ‘Cone’ is always 30’.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 4:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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I do not get it. First we are told that if we take (R)DD, we should assume the pros and cons of the class, the cons obviously being the appearance changes that will, more often than not, be only attractive to a dragonblood and usually make them 'horrendous' to their original race.
Then, we are told we should not RP having all those physical changes?
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 4:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Nothing says Dragon Disciples get ugly? Check out the DM Handbook picture of a dragon disciple. It's beautiful. Anything beyond barely visible scales and wings is up to the player, I believe.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 4:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Yes, but in many threads that came in the past about it, at the same time it was told that it was at a player's discretion to add visible changes to their PCs appearance and that it was fine if they could make their (R)DDs pretty, it was also told that, instead, they became a monster with claws and scales and fangs and... well... they should RP that.
That RDD was not meant only for the stats, but also for the looks.
Mind, I RP the changes as being visible!
I just am really confused as to what Very_Svensk distaste is.
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 5:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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Nah, I don't think that's the mantra any more. Pretty, monsters, up to you. Basic stuff should be there though. Scales and wings. DDs might get claws, I'm not sure off the top of my head.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 5:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Bobo_Underhill wrote: Nah, I don't think that's the mantra any more. Pretty, monsters, up to you. Basic stuff should be there though. Scales and wings. DDs might get claws, I'm not sure off the top of my head.
They get claws (it is pictured in the DMG), and the fact that they get claw and bite attacks in PnP sort of insinuates they get big teeth, too (or at least better shaped and more well-anchored).
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Fri, Mar 05 2010, 6:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: The Drone Star State
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They don't get it in NWN, though, so I'd still consider it optional and up to the player.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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