AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark III

soundofastream wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Also, the GIANT one: If you have Conjuration as your banned school, you cannot read Raise Dead scrolls.

If the specialist mage in question were to take an UMD class (with skill pts in UMD), would that fix the issue?

I don't think so. I have an AA with one level of wizard who specialized that is unable to use certain scrolls. He has plenty of UMD, which does not seem to make a difference.

No, it doesn't fix it. Specialist prohibition beats even UMD.

For the Bard build, remember you can prolly find a few items that give you cats grace (or bards get this spell I beleive) to get you up to 12 dex for a total of +1 more AC from dexterity

As far as AB goes, Bards are rolling in it If I recall... you have probably 16 BAB
5 from epic levels...
+5 from GMW
+5 from bard song
+5 from curse song
Option +6 (taunt)
Option +2 (War Cry)
+14 38 buffed strength

Run around with 50 ab easily.

IS this wrong? Even my pansy little bard with like no str and lower BAB can hit all day in the abyss... of course he hits like a pansy but he still hits...

And as for the bard... remember although one of the best 'solo' classes minus those fragile little hp. They are by far imho the best classes to party with because their skills work for everyone.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

You'll hit plenty with Curse Song dropping enemy AC (+5 AB) and Taunt (+6AB), if you can fit that in. Theres extended Warcry (+2AB), too.

Max 20 Dodge Bonus. 5 Boots, 4 (Not 5) haste, 1 mage armour, 5 Bardsong. Divine Sheild is only good for 5 AC. Your missing 6 points are there and haste. Its hidden on the character sheet, but theres also the effect your curse song has on enemy AB, which effectively raises your AC a couple points too.

Tumble is "Other" AC, btw. It doesnt count towards the 20.

Damnit. This means i can "probably" Leave out the Fourth level Blackguard and "Not" Take Divine shield then. I will have extra points to take The Epic Feat for +2 Armor

23 bard 3 bg, 4 fighter, is an old standby....
AC is gonna be pretty much off the charts anyways.

10 base
1 dexterity
8+5 armor
3+5 shield
+5 Bard song
+5 curse song
+4 haste
+1 mage armor
+2 Armor Skin
+6 Tumble
+5 Boots
+4 Necklace
+4 Cloak

Eh 68 or so? Then of course you get to have wounding whispers running, a summon monster IX scroll 15 minute companion, your pretty damn good AB on top of that. There is a few things you can do about your hp, the main thing is going to be just taking mobs from the sides, dont just dive in the middle. 2 crits and you're out in the abyss... (I beleive)

I have a few questions for those of you in the know about character builds.

Since the free rebuild thing has come out I've started thinking about fixing up my character who's been given some rather odd levels and stats, making him generally a lot weaker than others of his level.

However, I'm also torn about whether I should put up with being weak for RP's sake or even if there is some kind of middle ground I could aim for. To explain, I have a 19 fighter, 7 ranger whose AC is 43 at max and AB is 38 I believe. He was meant to be a weapons master, but I never got that option for some reason (I assume I messed up his stats), and while I like having the ranger side for RP, I think it's kind of crippling my character.

So... what do you guys think? Should I just put up with being a fair bit weaker than other characters and being terrible at pvp in exchange for having a character who can actually stand out a bit RP wise? Or do you think it's better for me to follow everyone else and aim for a character who's strong, if a bit bland? If you think I can have both, please enlighten me as to how, because that would be awesome.

We're of course assuming I use a rebuild for this...

TormakSaber wrote:

No, it doesn't fix it. Specialist prohibition beats even UMD.

Taking a single level of sorcerer does let you use prohibited items, I think.

Speaking on the bard thing I have a feytouched bard and I was wondering. Oh my build is 25b/3bg/1fighter. Bg and figjhter pre epic. Is the fighter level going to help me any or should ki just go 26bard? I'm going char based with 14 str.

oshizo2 wrote:

Speaking on the bard thing I have a feytouched bard and I was wondering. Oh my build is 25b/3bg/1fighter. Bg and figjhter pre epic. Is the fighter level going to help me any or should ki just go 26bard? I'm going char based with 14 str.

That fighter level will get you an extra feat and an extra attack.

so i should take the fighter level on a feat lvl ie.. 18 or any level will do? i know its going to be pre epic for sure

oshizo2 wrote:

so i should take the fighter level on a feat lvl ie.. 18 or any level will do? i know its going to be pre epic for sure

Any will do, Fighter 1 gives a bonus feat regardless of when you take it.

I would like you alls opinion. Since I'm shooting for 25 bard should I sacrafice armor skin/epic prowess for epic perform? I took that feat one time in the past on a 25 bard doesn't really seem to do anything.

oshizo2 wrote:

I would like you alls opinion. Since I'm shooting for 25 bard should I sacrafice armor skin/epic prowess for epic perform? I took that feat one time in the past on a 25 bard doesn't really seem to do anything.

I'd go with armor skin or prowess, really. There are multiple items out there to get you to whatever max perform you'll need for you levels, in addition to what you can easily mythal +5 perform onto. You'd be hurting for +2 AC or +1 AB long before you'd miss +10 perform, I imagine.

So, I'm thinking about mixing up Eir a bit. Currently he's a nice, healthy Bard 20/RDD 9/Fighter 1, dev critter with scimitar and a shield, neat enough 60+ AC and mediocre 43ish AB, with only 3 attacks per round.

What I'm thinking is changing it up to give him a great axe instead, add some BG levels not only to make him less worthless in the attack-department but also to fit him in a bit with some ongoing IC stuff, and add the last level of RDD to make him a tad more animalistic.

I'm thinking Bard 8/RDD 8/BG 4 pre-epic, going for Bard 16/RDD 10/BG 4 at 30, keeping his DC 40 dev DC, but dropping to mid-50s AC.

Now, if I go for WF and EWF I'll land at 45+ AB, but miss out on Toughness and Epic Fort. With Epic Fort he would rest comfortably at around 40ish Fort and mid-30s Reflex/Will, and even without Epic Fort I could probably push it over 40 for fort. What say ye, buildatrons?

Any thoughts? Yes, I know Eir is perfectly capable as is, but the scimi-dev is getting boring, and I want to try something new.

Thinking of rebuilding into an SD with dev crit. What kind of build options do I have?

Does nobody want to give me any advice? ):

@Spy

Nobody respects weak builds for RP's sake on Amia in my experience. I have never seen anyone congratulate or commend another character for being realistically built upon beating them in PvP or seeing them die in PvM. So, sorry, but you're better off just making a strong build like everyone else.

I'd give specific advice about your build but you didn't really say what you were looking for beyond weapon master. I will say mixing ranger (beyond 1 level for an epic bonus feat) and weapon master doesn't really work, but you *can* make a ranger that hits just as hard as a WM, just not both well. WM build would be something like 20 Fighter/7 Weapon Master/3 Rogue and ranger would be 25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue with bane of enemies.

Vaylek wrote:

Thinking of rebuilding into an SD with dev crit. What kind of build options do I have?

Bard 20/RDD 4/SD 6 or Bard 16/RDD 4/SD 10, if you want to try and fit in Epic Dodge. I'm still struggling with the min/maxing.

Spyonline8000 wrote:

Does nobody want to give me any advice? ):

Fighter/Rogue/WM is as straight forward as they come. Fighter 12/Rogue 2/WM 16, for example. Rogue at 12 and 27 to get Tumble AC to 3 and 6 respectively.

There are many, many more builds of the kind, and I'm sure a ton of them are better. That one right there is easy and comfortable, though.

I have to disagree quite a bit with that.

Not everyone needs to be a powerbuild. Your build is not the defining point of your RP, but having a strong build does help if you're trying to RP a strong character. Build as strong as you want to be, that's what I say. Don't intentionally cripple your build, but don't feel like you can't take some rp stuff and feats in the mix if you feel like it either. It's your character after all, at the end of the day, you'll the one playing him/her.

So to answer your post/question, do what you feel is right for your situation. Has he increased as a fighter in your eyes? More powerful, more capable, more wise in the art of war? How much? If he's increased just a litte in skill in your mind, then just take his build up a knotch or two, maybe streamline him a bit. If he's at the top of his game now, feel free to go full powerbuild with him. If he's gotten old and decrepit, by all means can you decrease his strength and give him more wisdom, int, rp skills, etc. Can't really tell what you're going for from what you've given.

Anyway, what I'm saying is your own thoughts about RP are more determinant of your RP than your build is. I've seen "powerbuilds" that can RP with the best of them, and I've seen "RP builds" that can't RP that well, objectively speaking. Your build can hurt or help your RP, but don't think you can't have both.

Edit: This was to be after BloodnAshes's post.

Looking for a good drow cleric build. Don't want BG in it. Would like to keep Bastard sword in it. I don't know about divine shield and might but I have seen they can make a difference. Looking for advice in this matter. PM me or post here.

"Good Drow Cleric Build" as in "competent cleric build" or "good aligned cleric build"?

In any case, not taking blackguard is stupid, generally speaking. Drow have charisma bonuses, the STr is easy to get and you will have the feat anyways. 3 levels gets you Aura.

True but I can still get divine shield and might. The bonuses to the saves are nice but I am wanting to think outside the box. And competent drow build thank you very much tormak.

26 cleric/2 rogue is "Competent". You get 26 cleric caster levels, both your cleric epic feats you have access to as a Drow, immunity to Greater Dispel, and Evasion, skll dumps, spot dumps, etc. Save some SP for Tumble and UMD, pick a weapon, buff and go kill stuff.

Vaylek wrote:

Thinking of rebuilding into an SD with dev crit. What kind of build options do I have?

I have to disagree with the other people who've responded to you so far, Vaylek. Having RP'd with Vaylek and knowing his character to some extent, the Bard/RDD/SD build is highly unappealing to me - mostly because it makes Vaylek, who hadn't been a bard... well, a bard. Also the RDD is utterly unecessary. It smells like cheddar, is counterintuitive to your RP, the "I shadow dance (ie stay quiet and hidden) but am a flamboyant singer (ie stay out in the open and garner attention by being heard)" concept frustrates me, and all in all Bard less-than-21 seems silly to me.

Off of that and onto something more useful:

A Fighter/Rogue/SD combo seems legitimate, simply going high fighter levels pre-epic and dropping the SD and rogue levels into the mix for skill dumps and such as you go on. I would reccomend something like =

Fighter 15 / Rogue 5 / Shadow Dancer 10 (For epic SD gear thingies I've heard tell of, as well as all the feats the PrC has to offer)

Fighter 20 / Rogue 3 / SD 7 (7th level bags you slippery mind, useful for low will save fighter base class)

Or Fighter 10 / Rogue 13 / SD 7 (Bags you everything roguey/SDy, including improved evasion and crippling strike, as well as having damage-cannony sneaks. AB is lower, but HiPsers don't need much AB anyways - you're pounding on someone who's flatfooted).

Dakotaen wrote:

Vaylek wrote:

Thinking of rebuilding into an SD with dev crit. What kind of build options do I have?

Bard 20/RDD 4/SD 6 or Bard 16/RDD 4/SD 10, if you want to try and fit in Epic Dodge. I'm still struggling with the min/maxing.

Thanks for the response Rudy. I should have elaborated which classes are off bounds in terms of my RP. I don't want to try and justify Vaylek becoming an RDD, for example.

Basically the only classes I'm cool with taking for this character are fighter, rogue, ranger, WM, monk, SD, assassin.

So yeah, looking at two rebuild concepts... one is that Vay packs on muscle and lets his rogue skills fall out of practice as he becomes more martially oriented (Dev critting Ftr/WM/SD or Ftr/Rog/WM or Ranger/SD or just stay Ftr/Rog/SD but switch focus from dex to strength)

Other is that he increases his discipline and becomes a monk (Monk/SD or Monk/Fighter/SD).

Which build has the best all round potential?

Champion of Helm is right, of course, for some reason it hadn't occured to me that Vaylek was getting the rebuild. In that case, yes, you're probably best off with a Fighter/Rogue/SD combo. Mind, those can be very useful, but no matter what you'll suffer some from your loss of dex < str. Still with the right gear, potions and epic skill foci, you should be able to land at about 100 Hide/MS.

Just write to me on MSN, Vaylek.

Dead wrote:

Race: Dwarf
Fighter 20 / Weapon Master 7 / Rogue 3

Stats:

18 - STR
13 - DEX
14 - CON
8 - WIS
13 - INT
6 - CHA

1. ROGUE: Dodge
2. FIGHTER: Weapon Focus (chosen)
3. Expertise, Mobility
4. +1 str
5. Spring attack
6. Whirlwind attack
7. Weapon specialization
8. +1 str
9. Improved critical (chosen), Knockdown
10. /
11. Power attack
12. +1 str, Cleave
13. Great Cleave
14. WEAPON MASTER: Ki damage, Weapon of Choice (chosen)
15. Blind fight
16. +1 STR
17. /
18. Superior Weapon Focus, Increased Multiplayer, Improved KD (?)
19. /
20. Ki Critical
21. FIGTER: Overwhelming critical
22. Epic Weapon Focus
23. /
24. +1 str, Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Specialization
25. /
26. Armor Skin
27. Epic skill focus (discipline)
28. +1 str, Devastating critical
29. ROGUE: Evasion, thumble/UMD + skill of choice
30. Sneak attack 2d6, Uncanny dodge I, Epic Fortitude

*At first level toss skill points to thumble, UMD and intimidate (+4)

Any suggestions on gear? Changes? Maybe something else but Improved KD at level 18 (Tougness, Improved Expertise)?

alright I'm an idiot so i messed up. I forgot to put 6 skills points at the first level and now i have to take second rogue level at 14 instead of 30 and that is messing it up a little. please someone tell me that there is no too much damage for this build or I'm gonna shoot myself. :roll:

Hokay.

So I'm in the market for a good monk/BG build.

Halp?

Needs to be evil (obviously), for a half-elf.

AxlLeigh wrote:

Hokay.

So I'm in the market for a good monk/BG build.

Halp?

Needs to be evil (obviously), for a half-elf.

Monk 8 / BG 16 / SD 6; Monk 10 / BG 16 / Fighter 4

Both of those imply using kamas. Forget using fists on anything less than a 16 monk.

Dead wrote:

alright I'm an idiot so i messed up. I forgot to put 6 skills points at the first level and now i have to take second rogue level at 14 instead of 30 and that is messing it up a little. please someone tell me that there is no too much damage for this build or I'm gonna shoot myself. :roll:

nvm. solved it.

Monk 20 / BG 4 / Fighter 6
Pre-epic: 16 Monk / 4 Fighter

Go with fists, weapon spec/epic weapon spec, etc. You also get glowy red eyes! (Which, honestly, is so much cooler than anything else.)

21 Monk and only 3 BG if you want an 'Epic' monk.

What Abilities should I start off with for a Dev Critter build?

Um.. that's kinda vauge. It all depends on what you're going to be taking, when, and how much.

But I'd say as long as you end up with all the stuff you need, just however it helps the most as you level up.

As in taking the weapon focus and improved critical before taking power attack and the cleaves. +1 to attack and improved critical range helps more earlier on than -5 atk for +5 damage and being able to cleave for me.

Well, it's just every time I've tried to make a Dev Critter I haven't had enough Dex or Str to take WM or Dev Crit itself.

You need:

25 STR for Devastating Critical.
13 DEX, 13 INT for relevant feats to get you to WM levels. (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Expertise, Whirlwind attack.)

SacredOak wrote:

You need:

25 STR for Devastating Critical.
13 DEX, 13 INT for relevant feats to get you to WM levels. (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Expertise, Whirlwind attack.)

Thanks a lot.

He was asking for just the Dev requirements, I thought, not a WM dev, which is a whole nother pain. :wink:

Strength 25+, cleave, great cleave, improved critical (weapon to be chosen), overwhelming critical (weapon to be chosen), power attack, weapon focus (weapon to be chosen).

You can get all of that without even looking at WM.

Dark Immolation wrote:

He was asking for just the Dev requirements, I thought, not a WM dev, which is a whole nother pain. :wink:

Strength 25+, cleave, great cleave, improved critical (weapon to be chosen), overwhelming critical (weapon to be chosen), power attack, weapon focus (weapon to be chosen).

You can get all of that without even looking at WM.

Hm, that does open up a few feat slots that I could really use... I'll try and experiment building it.

Yes, those are just the requirements for Dev, -not- including WM, btw.

But again, you don't have to have WM to get dev, it's actually quite easier to get the feats staying Fighter. But... it's just hard to tell you by just saying "A dev critter build". And saying a "A WM dev critter" doesn't really narrow it down any. >_<

Hi folks, I was wondering if anyone can help me with TWO builds. Firstly I'd like a pure Wizard build that incorporates Epic Necromancy, Epic Conjuration and uses Epic Spells Dragon Knight, Mummy Dust, Mage Armour and Hellball, if it's not possible to get all of these, I'll ditch the Hellball in favour of Mage Armour.

Second, I'd like a cleric/monk build that incorporates high heal, high ab on morningstar and uses epic spell dragon knight, and has high ac... basicly a very strong undead hunting melee cleric that's going to be able to handle the manor of mourn without too many struggles.

If possible (i'm a dumbarse with builds) can I please ask whoever helps here for a level by level build plan so I can use them step by step?

Many thanks!

For Wizard, its possible to easily get 6 epic mage feats, if you play your cards right i think.

Yaster Galer wrote:

SacredOak wrote:

You need:

25 STR for Devastating Critical.
13 DEX, 13 INT for relevant feats to get you to WM levels. (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Expertise, Whirlwind attack.)

Thanks a lot.

or you can add greater str at epic levels, eventually.
check on the build i did. just scroll up a little.

Champion of Helm wrote:

AxlLeigh wrote:

Hokay.

So I'm in the market for a good monk/BG build.

Halp?

Needs to be evil (obviously), for a half-elf.

Monk 8 / BG 16 / SD 6; Monk 10 / BG 16 / Fighter 4

Incorrect.

Monk 9, BG 16, SD 5 (Epic Dodge)

Or

Monk 10 Rogue 4 Blackguard 16 (UMD)

SD 6 pointless for a number of reasons the main one being Monk/Div Shield/Epic Dodge AC approaching an effective number of 70 and thats with nerfed wisdom modifier starting at -1 base.

Hello!
I need help to figure out a build i have bin thinking of for some time.
I will play it as a Orog Warlock whit the classes Bard/BG/rogue

My plan was to go 21Bard/4BG/3Rogue

starting stats as Orog
str 18
dex 10
con 10
wis 8
int 10
cha 18

going for 20 Cha in the end and rest in str

The weapon I'm going for is the war hammer (Just because it looks cool) and no dev,crit. I think ill have better use for the epic feat somewhere else.

Any ideas or coments???
And does this worke as a warlock?

Carvelan wrote:

Any ideas or coments???
And does this worke as a warlock?

Not really, IMO. Bard really doesn't have the variety of spells nor castings per day to pass off as a Warlock. Perhaps some... Deathsinger? Dare I say "Death Metal" lead singer? :lol:

A warlock would be more like wiz/BG, sorc/BG, sorc/pm/BG. Warlocks are all about the darker wells of magic, specifically fiendish, demonic, and chaotic.

Don't let me stop you from trying to make a bard a with warlock tinge, that's just my take on the whole thing.

Well, warlocks are pretty close to bards. Just instead of singing songs, they shoot lasers.

Carvelan wrote:

Hello!
I need help to figure out a build i have bin thinking of for some time.
I will play it as a Orog Warlock whit the classes Bard/BG/rogue

My plan was to go 21Bard/4BG/3Rogue

starting stats as Orog
str 18
dex 10
con 10
wis 8
int 10
cha 18

going for 20 Cha in the end and rest in str

The weapon I'm going for is the war hammer (Just because it looks cool) and no dev,crit. I think ill have better use for the epic feat somewhere else.

Any ideas or coments???
And does this worke as a warlock?

Error.

18 cha is enough.
3 BG is enough.
1 Rogue is enough but is better of being 1 Fighter.

Therefore 23 Bard 3 BG 2 Fighter is the BEEZNEEZ.

Mind Blackguard saves are getting capped to universal save/level so the undevable bar 1 aspect of the Bard/BG with enough slots for perform gear until you get epic gloves has been jap slapped. Hard.

You'll be short 6 - 7 universal saves than what you think you have.

Nothing in NWN1 can simulate a warlock with any reasonable ability. Just not doable. NWN2 spoiled me....

The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark III

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