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Tiamatian
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 Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 16:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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perhaps it is only me or only when i play but there are two predomently OOC things that have cought my attention only because they are leeching IC. (and to an extreamly large degree)
the first probably cannot be helped as it seems to have become part of the mentality of the pc's and quite possably the server itself, this is of course the amount of "tolerence" for cretures that are enemies a good 99% of the time if not more. i see no ic prejduice on the server at all in many casses and while this may be good for getting people in larger groups, ect. it just dosant seem to fit forgotten relms.
the second is the Mass Exodus of the underdark by the drow. the whole time i have been playing here in recent memory i havent even seen a single drow that was not on the surface and standing right in the middle of cordor having a frendly chat and in many casses it was with....with......*Gasp!* - Surface elves!
i think that it would be easy enough to remidy the second, just add some incentives to being evil as a drow and some (or maby a lot of) downsides to being good. the first sadly cannot be changed by anything less than a change of hart by the players themselves, although perhaps a few events done by the dm's might help nudge it in that direction.
i simply felt that this was worth bringing up as it was so plain to look at. and for any who think that i am being hipocricical.....no.... i currently play as Ikki, a kobold, and would be in the same boat as everyone who had an "unusual" or "monsterous" pc.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 16:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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This has been a problem since the beginning. No change on the way.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Magiros
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Yeah would be great to see that happen, what Tiamatian said.. But well I don't think it will happen on this server.
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Any Drow that you will see around Cordor will have a special Signet ring which allows them to enter. The reason you see so many races that may be considered enemies to most, is that Cordor is the City of tolerance. Well sort of anyway, at one point Monstrous races were close to being banished from Cordor.
And maybe the reason why people don't show IC prejuidice so much is because it's potentially meta-gamng the guards for reasons of disturbing the peace, which you need a DM to over-see, though there may well be other reasons as to why you don't see the actions you expect.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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colanah
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Lost In Thought
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You want drow vs elf action? Get out of Cordor. *jerks thumb at the forest and Bendir dale area* All the hot Surface vs Underworld battle royales you can handle.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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You obviously haven't met Meldrium. Or any of the Winyan Elves for that matter... Get out of Cordor.
There we are, the new tag ling.
Cordor: Get the bloody hell out of here!
EDIT: Furthermore - Meldrium would kill your Ikki were you not in a place where HE'D get in trouble for killing a Kobold that people 'tolerate'.
So um... Good luck with changing things.  Oh, and welcome to Amia! _________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Zante
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Amia has a long history of good drow, kobolds, etc. On amia, they are the norm. There's even a shrine for Eilistraee in a easily accessible and known place on the isle.
''All drow are evil'' is not the case on amia, which is an easilly observable and provable fact simply by pointing out the scores that aren't. As such people get used to it and addapt. Most npcs and pcs would be aware of such unless they are ignorant or refuse to see it, hence the tolerance.
Though, there's still plenty of characters who keep on being stubborn or downright racist and refuse to see things the way they are, so there's plenty of elf on drow conflict.
Suggest you join Winya if you are into such.
_________________ 
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Tiamatian
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Anubis wrote: Any Drow that you will see around Cordor will have a special Signet ring which allows them to enter. The reason you see so many races that may be considered enemies to most, is that Cordor is the City of tolerance. Well sort of anyway, at one point Monstrous races were close to being banished from Cordor.
And maybe the reason why people don't show IC prejuidice so much is because it's potentially meta-gamng the guards for reasons of disturbing the peace, which you need a DM to over-see, though there may well be other reasons as to why you don't see the actions you expect.
but you see that is exactly my point. if you were involved in recent dm events it was clear that the guards and city populance dont like having monsters running about freely in there city, and even the paperboy yells "we must rid our city of the demonic menice" or somthing on that note.
simply put its not dm's stopping people its just a chain reaction that happend probably from somthing probably very early in the servers history. it can be undone as well but that would addmittidly require an effort on eather the players or the dm's part.
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Grymia
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Tiamatian wrote: Anubis wrote: Any Drow that you will see around Cordor will have a special Signet ring which allows them to enter. The reason you see so many races that may be considered enemies to most, is that Cordor is the City of tolerance. Well sort of anyway, at one point Monstrous races were close to being banished from Cordor.
And maybe the reason why people don't show IC prejuidice so much is because it's potentially meta-gamng the guards for reasons of disturbing the peace, which you need a DM to over-see, though there may well be other reasons as to why you don't see the actions you expect. but you see that is exactly my point. if you were involved in recent dm events it was clear that the guards and city populance dont like having monsters running about freely in there city, and even the paperboy yells "we must rid our city of the demonic menice" or somthing on that note. simply put its not dm's stopping people its just a chain reaction that happend probably from somthing probably very early in the servers history. it can be undone as well but that would addmittidly require an effort on eather the players or the dm's part. A couple of points:
1) The monsterous disdain advertisement Mikey yells was paid for by a group whom if I am to understand rightly isn't in operation in the incarnation it'd existed in when the ad was commissioned.
2) Cordor indeed has a low tolerance of Monsterous Races who misbehave. That said, if they don't misbehave and do stupid stuff (and trade ideally) they're probably not gonna be dealt with in any harsh manner *though I wouldn't count on public office anytime soon either*
3) Yes, it did happen early on in the Server's history that Cordor was more tolerant but as the server developed things happened to warrant the shift in attitude. When Amia was first concieved, it was meant to be a more friendly and open server (honestly it still manages this to a great extent today, individual troubles aside). Now, Amia's starting to hit a balance between friendliness/openness and coming closer to what Toril should rationally be like and also without a situation where Drow or some other major evil has unduly overrun the entire island.
Honestly, I think there is room to improve, but I am uncertain as to what direction that would take things really. At this point, it's wait and see and if you have a character prone fori t, plot and scheme to achieve an end.
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QPR
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 17:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Well, the problem is that there are too many monstrous chars. So many in fact, that the monstrous cease to be monstrous, and have rather become the norm. The most "monstrous" you can play is a human with no subrace, they are rare.
And peoples indifference to monstrous chars will not change until they stop being the norm. And to do that, you will have to make all monstrous subraces platinum races. But that's not going to happen.
Myself I try to give my chars as many prejudices I can defend. My Ranger for instance do more or less hate drow, goblins and kobods and all other monster races because he is not from Amia, but he also recognizes the exceptions, and wont kill a goblin or kobold encountered in Cordor. In the wilderness it is a different matter entirely.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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There's varying levels and reasoning of prejudice on Amia; some people are tolerant because of their experiences with individuals of the races; some because they want to chafe against the popular (NPC) opinion, or whatever else. Most of the time, the tolerance is more between PCs than NPCs. Cordor is actually going after any event, any transgression of one "undesirable race" to target the entire race and get them kicked out. They've been doing this for a while and recently they've had the common folk on their side far more vocally.
Those who are tolerated there are probably tolerated for a reason (IC that is; the OOC reason is that Cordor is still a major starting city and that new players, regardless of what race they play, are likely to begin there. Kind of hard for server logistics to just kick them out.) Sometimes that hard-earned protection extends to others of their race, which is a double-edged sword because any bob of said race can ruin all the hard work of the other guy.
But yes, this isn't new, and unless some specific changes happen in the server to not completely shaft new players, it really can't change in places like Cordor. I echo Lath (when did you get here? :D ) and suggest you check out your reception in other locales... People tend to be lip-service tolerant in towns, and vicious out of them.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Tiamatian wrote: Anubis wrote: Any Drow that you will see around Cordor will have a special Signet ring which allows them to enter. The reason you see so many races that may be considered enemies to most, is that Cordor is the City of tolerance. Well sort of anyway, at one point Monstrous races were close to being banished from Cordor.
And maybe the reason why people don't show IC prejuidice so much is because it's potentially meta-gamng the guards for reasons of disturbing the peace, which you need a DM to over-see, though there may well be other reasons as to why you don't see the actions you expect. but you see that is exactly my point. if you were involved in recent dm events it was clear that the guards and city populance dont like having monsters running about freely in there city, and even the paperboy yells "we must rid our city of the demonic menice" or somthing on that note. simply put its not dm's stopping people its just a chain reaction that happend probably from somthing probably very early in the servers history. it can be undone as well but that would addmittidly require an effort on eather the players or the dm's part. Whether the Guards like it or not, you can't begin doing something that disturbs the peace, if it's to a race of 'Monstrous Heritage' or not, due to Server rules, which include no meta-gaming the guards.
I was just trying to say that just because you don't see them hurling insults, being agressive or even racist toward the 'freak' races, doesn't mean because they choose not to be, because they want to cuddle with them or whatever, there might just not be a DM on to over-see the event, or even some people may have gotten that way where they don't want to do IC illegal things what-so-ever within the city.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Sylfwe
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Stalking around.
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Like many have said: get out of Cordor. As for ‘tolerance’, I for one despise PvP because something’s bound to go wrong even when it looks right or whatever and I’ve wiggled into my Winyan Elf character concept that she won’t deal with anything that’s not standing around on her doorstep. That doesn’t mean that she’ll ever treat them civil or hesitate too much to put them out of their misery if they’re asking for it.
And yeah, monstrous races are not that rare and there's just so many times you can trip over your feet and go wide-eyed when seeing a drow/orc/etc.
_________________ Get Ready for ItForum lurker.
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Valve
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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I for one.. have seen a lot of comments about the 'freaks' with wings and other creatures.. I'm nice to Ikki for a specific reason only. Anytime I see someone weird I make a point to stare at them. That's as much as I am going to do. Anytime I see a Drow I make it a point to be suspicious of them.
Mina has heard it enough that it's given her a complex and is wanting to get out of Cordor soon.
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Tiamatian
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Guess the big concencis is that cordor is just a strange city...even compaired to others on the server...
also... yes i am new in a sence. i played here a very long time ago but not for any great length.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:44 PM |
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Some humanised forum search could link to all the old topics on the matter. They're worth reading before this debate gets much further, because almost everything on the subject has already been said and it's futile to ruminate the same arguments over and over.
Maybe there's something new to say on the matter, but first have a look at what's already been said, please.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 18:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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Zante wrote: Amia has a long history of good drow, kobolds, etc. On amia, they are the norm. There's even a shrine for Eilistraee in a easily accessible and known place on the isle.
''All drow are evil'' is not the case on amia, which is an easilly observable and provable fact simply by pointing out the scores that aren't. As such people get used to it and addapt. Most npcs and pcs would be aware of such unless they are ignorant or refuse to see it, hence the tolerance.
Though, there's still plenty of characters who keep on being stubborn or downright racist and refuse to see things the way they are, so there's plenty of elf on drow conflict.
Suggest you join Winya if you are into such.
frankly..i dont care what you think, its the norm in the rest of faerun to hate and kill drows, kobolds and goblins on sight, and a few years of seeing good ones does not change the suspision of a lifetime...i have and had alot of good chars..and none of them will ever see a goblin as anything but a goblin..and goblins you kill...the same with kobolds...drows...well..one of them accepted them..but the rest of my chars would not trust them with a broken wand..i dont care if you call me ignorant..or racist..we arnt stubborn..we are reacting to millenias of war mongering goblins and kobolds...drow raids and mass murders...calll us what you want..i call it faerun rp..
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 19:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Kraniumbrud wrote: frankly..i dont care what you think, its the norm in the rest of faerun to hate and kill drows, kobolds and goblins on sight, and a few years of seeing good ones does not change the suspision of a lifetime...i have and had alot of good chars..and none of them will ever see a goblin as anything but a goblin..and goblins you kill...the same with kobolds...drows...well..one of them accepted them..but the rest of my chars would not trust them with a broken wand..i dont care if you call me ignorant..or racist..we arnt stubborn..we are reacting to millenias of war mongering goblins and kobolds...drow raids and mass murders...calll us what you want..i call it faerun rp..
That's perfectly fine to have that view in-character because it's your character.
There are other characters that do not have this view. If you think other people are playing their characters as too tolerant, the onus is on you to persuade them in-character.
It's unnecessary to argue this on the forums out of character, because it's a completely in-game PC phenomenon. The NPCs will often behave in a way that is more conservative depending on the situation, the area, and the NPC in question.
The point is: You can't set an in-character tone by arguing about it out-of-character. It's determined by the interactions of other players with each other. If you disagree with it, take the initiative and work to change it in-character. _________________ 
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
Last edited by Leggomi Eggolas on Thu, Sep 17 2009, 19:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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gorgometh
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 19:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Location: Southeast (USA)
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Leggomi Eggolas wrote: If you disagree with it, take the initiative and work to change it in-character.
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Tiamatian
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 19:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Quote: forum search could link to all the old topics on the matter yah...I should have looked there first i suppose. Also Kraniumbrud, i agree with you on this point but calm down your post looks like your going to have a hart attack over this lol. Quote: The point is: You can't set an in-character tone by arguing about it out-of-character. It's determined by the interactions of other players with each other. If you disagree with it, take the initiative and work to change it in-character.
i agree with this whole hartedly this was simply an attempet to shead some light on my view and get a replay of others. thats all. but since this is becomeing hostile allready i would like to request that the topic be locked or deleated.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 19:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Quote: i agree with this whole hartedly this was simply an attempet to shead some light on my view and get a replay of others. thats all. but since this is becomeing hostile allready i would like to request that the topic be locked or deleated.
All right. Keep in mind, this is the sort of lively debate I like seeing in-game (In character, of course.) _________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Sep 17 2009, 20:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Zante wrote: Amia has a long history of good drow, kobolds, etc. On amia, they are the norm. There's even a shrine for Eilistraee in a easily accessible and known place on the isle.
''All drow are evil'' is not the case on amia, which is an easilly observable and provable fact simply by pointing out the scores that aren't. As such people get used to it and addapt. Most npcs and pcs would be aware of such unless they are ignorant or refuse to see it, hence the tolerance.
Though, there's still plenty of characters who keep on being stubborn or downright racist and refuse to see things the way they are, so there's plenty of elf on drow conflict.
Suggest you join Winya if you are into such. Post lock post just to say that this is horribly wrong and Amia's general populace is not accepting of Drow, even if the PCs are. Nor are goblins and kobolds. They aren't the norm. PCs are pretty much never the norm. They are 'tolerated' in Cordor (not liked. 'tolerated') not because "there's a hstory of good ones", but because they spend money there, and money makes the world go round. And if you've ever set foot in Cordor recently you know hey're not treated as much more than 3rd class citizens. Also: You said 'Racist' in your post in a derogatory manner. As far as I'm concerned that invalidates the post because modern day values do not apply to Faerun. That applies to any post that used Racism in this way, I just happen to be quoting this one. Quote: the second is the Mass Exodus of the underdark by the drow. the whole time i have been playing here in recent memory i havent even seen a single drow that was not on the surface and standing right in the middle of cordor having a frendly chat and in many casses it was with....with......*Gasp!* - Surface elves! There isn't a mass exodus, Ultrinnanite Drow just don't log on in droves lately. Quote: frankly..i dont care what you think, its the norm in the rest of faerun to hate and kill drows, kobolds and goblins on sight, and a few years of seeing good ones does not change the suspision of a lifetime...i have and had alot of good chars..and none of them will ever see a goblin as anything but a goblin..and goblins you kill...the same with kobolds...drows...well..one of them accepted them..but the rest of my chars would not trust them with a broken wand..i dont care if you call me ignorant..or racist..we arnt stubborn..we are reacting to millenias of war mongering goblins and kobolds...drow raids and mass murders...calll us what you want..i call it faerun rp..
This man has the correct view of the general NPC populace. They don't like Drow. They don't like Kobolds or Goblins or Hobgoblins.
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Posted post lock because I did not want this grievously incorrect attitude posted OOCly to begin being seeded ICly via metagamey forum posts... but I think that's already basically happened.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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