AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Does Shelgarn's Blade become any more powerful when Empowered?

Try it?

It wasn't noticeably, that's why I asked.

monk UBAB probably wouldn't work on wildshape. They all have weapon proficiency (creature), so they are probably not unarmed

blackvswhite wrote:

monk UBAB probably wouldn't work on wildshape. They all have weapon proficiency (creature), so they are probably not unarmed

Wrong.

Do Svirneblin's bonuses to dodge and spell resistance work with wildshape (and other polymorph spells)?

I do not think so. I know that if you cast the spell "spell restiance" as a drow on yourself, it does not stack.

ZenMonkey47 wrote:

Do Svirneblin's bonuses to dodge and spell resistance work with wildshape (and other polymorph spells)?

Dodge should stack on some forms, spell resistance will just be the highest number.

MoshingChris wrote:

blackvswhite wrote:

monk UBAB probably wouldn't work on wildshape. They all have weapon proficiency (creature), so they are probably not unarmed

Wrong.

does it work with all creatures? elementals and golems and stuff too?

I beleive... but then you are a using the monk/druid(shifter) cheese. And are just lame covered in lame sauce and fried lame style.

I believe it does. And cheese is a matter of opinion and how you approach it from RP. That said, shifter forms are being changed so that they don't get monk AC bonus.

People would then probably just have 1 monk level instead of 3. Cleave, Unarmed BAB, evasion, and tumble makes it still worth it. So it's still worth it to go 1 monk or 6 monk (IKD).

But at least once the change happens (if it's successful) a non monk class option is going to look more attractive. Should be interesting what combos people would come up with.

Yurell wrote:

I believe it does. And cheese is a matter of opinion and how you approach it from RP. That said, shifter forms are being changed so that they don't get monk AC bonus.

Ive heard that since I started on the server in April, with all due respect.

Dwarf wizzy. Chaotic neutral. No Pale Master. Ready, go.

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

Dwarf wizzy. Chaotic neutral. No Pale Master. Ready, go.

High Int.

Wizard 1 - 30

Done

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I believe it does. And cheese is a matter of opinion and how you approach it from RP. That said, shifter forms are being changed so that they don't get monk AC bonus.

Ive heard that since I started on the server in April, with all due respect.

Yeah, and you can blame me for it. But it *is* going to happen. Eventually. Someday.

TormakSaber wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I believe it does. And cheese is a matter of opinion and how you approach it from RP. That said, shifter forms are being changed so that they don't get monk AC bonus.

Ive heard that since I started on the server in April, with all due respect.

Yeah, and you can blame me for it. But it *is* going to happen Soon

Fixed

I wuv you tormak

MoshingChris wrote:

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

Dwarf wizzy. Chaotic neutral. No Pale Master. Ready, go.

High Int.

Wizard 1 - 30

Done

Or Wizard29/DwD1 equipped with EDR III! Oh, Chaotic Neutral.

TormakSaber wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

I believe it does. And cheese is a matter of opinion and how you approach it from RP. That said, shifter forms are being changed so that they don't get monk AC bonus.

Ive heard that since I started on the server in April, with all due respect.

Yeah, and you can blame me for it. But it *is* going to happen. Eventually. Someday.

Sounds like a good time to consider making a shifter for change.

What are some good Half-Orc Barbarian builds?

Alternately, Blackguard. Or really, it could just be WM or Ranger! The goal is to be a hard-hitting melee PC with some kind of a short-duration combat buff, or some way to represent religious extacy/trance. Rage/Divine Might seem obvious choices, but really Favored Enemy suits the concept (avenger) very well too, so the trance bit can be overlooked.

Anyway, Barbarian would be ideal, if it's a viable class. It can be any combination with Rogue, Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Blackguard, CoT (Neutral or Evil, undecided) and WM. No arcane classes, or paladins/druids.

IronAngel wrote:

What are some good Half-Orc Barbarian builds?

Alternately, Blackguard. Or really, it could just be WM or Ranger! The goal is to be a hard-hitting melee PC with some kind of a short-duration combat buff, or some way to represent religious extacy/trance. Rage/Divine Might seem obvious choices, but really Favored Enemy suits the concept (avenger) very well too, so the trance bit can be overlooked.

Anyway, Barbarian would be ideal, if it's a viable class. It can be any combination with Rogue, Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Blackguard, CoT (Neutral or Evil, undecided) and WM. No arcane classes, or paladins/druids.

I have just the ting for your mad fanatic concept. I made a character like that a few times in the past but found it very hard to role play although very rewarding.

barbarian18/10CoT/2Cleric for example with no spells. Cleric levels are there only to give divine might and divine shield. It can simulate practically all paladin abilities while being entirely insane and of almost any alignment, and is very very powerful on higher levels with high charisma suitable for a mad prophet, plus the barbarian rages. It is the epitome of short buffing abilities that work perfectly as a religious extacy since it uses divine shield, might and wrath with barbarian rage.

Use decent starting str and con and then dump everything in charisma to boost the divine X abilities and perhaps strength and war domain powers for example. A simple build to make as long as you use the cleric levels carefully for the divine might and shield. having the suitable domains really does help though.

Barbarian24/Fighter4/Rogue2 is the classic. Uce has a Barbarian24/BG4/Rogue2, and from what I've seen, it's very effective.

The BG flavour wins because of the saves, but if you don't care about PvP or beating up the Pirate, Barb24/Cleric2/Bard4 will kick the same amount of arse.

Which is lots. Pare's an animal when he's got the Rage/Might/Shield combination running.

What's the 4 Bard for? As opposed to, say, 26 Barb/2 Rogue?

I think I'll compare Silv's suggestion and that BG/Barb. I guess the bonus Str makes up for the Cha penalty. I hope. Always pains me to lose EWS, but I guess the AC and Saves make up for the lack.

Khartak can beat up the pirate nearly 50 percent of the time!

Barbs the one class you can afford to take a Mulligan on EWS. Mind I am in total <3 with Khartaks stock damage vs Abyss.

Question. . .

Making a Sturli with Barb instead of DwD possible? Worth it?

If you go minmax crazy you can get EDRIII and Devcrit on a dwarf or half-orc, and while it's uninspiring PvM, it's a pain in the hole to put it under the dirt in PvP, and it'll PvBoss perfectly well; anything with chunky DR/HP does okay in boss work because the economics of Elly Shield potion + Healchug are tilted in their favour.

Barb/BG 16/4 -> Barb/BG/Rogue 24/4/2
Half-Orc

Str 18 (20)
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14 (20)

Power Attack
Cleave
Divine Might
Divine Shield
Weapon Focus
Improved Critical
Knockdown

Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus
Great Str I
Epic Prowess
Epic Skill Focus (Disc)

Does this draft look any good? I have no idea what kind of feats a Barbarian actually needs. Is it worth it going Divine Might/Shield, instead of more investment in Str/Con, netting EWS and Thundering Rage if I swap the BG to Fighter?

Oh, assuming I go mundane Barb/Ftr/Rogue (which I probably will, on further thought):

Am I shooting myself in the foot going two-hander, or is that a given with my Str? Is there any point worrying about AC and using a shield?

imo the ews and str is better than the might and shield. +16 all day damage vs +10 half the time or less damage/armor. It seems a waste putting points into cha for temp damage and armor instead of permanent damage.

The benefit of STR+EWS's permanence is undermined pretty badly on Barbs because, as a PvP concern, they need to spend a round hitting Rage, and as a PvMob concern, they need to rest frequently to refresh it anyway.

Mine started at normal human and:

STR 16 -> 23
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16

Same pre-epic feats as Iron's draft, but like a fanny I took Exotic Prof over KD, with Blindfight as bonus human feat.

Epic feats: Great STR III, Armourskin, and Barb24 was Thundering Rage.

For PvMob, the Hasted-Rage 55AC and 10/-DR(with items) take care of business well enough that I never need Shield, so it's Might all day. It's only an extra 2 damage, and ~5.5 if you're rocking the KD+Sneaks like you should, but that's nice enough.

For PvP and PvBoss, the +9AC and Universal saves piss all over EWS.

For Barbs of either flavour, I would go sword'n'board over twohander; the smaller the percantage of damage coming from STRmod, the worse twohandering gets. With Thundering Barb24 Rage, combined with either EWS or Divine Might, the twohander is relegated to 'dumb but fun' choice.

A shield isn't just AC, mind. It's also at least one extra Mythal slot.

The Barb24/Cleric2/Bard4 has 4 Bard over Barb26 because I reckon the trade of 4 Bardsong3's per day beats the 1DR at Barb26.

I'm not all too eager to be running several short-duration buffs simultaneously. Not to mention that Thundering Rage wouldn't come into play until 30, diminishing its usefulness.

If I went mundane, I guess I could do:

Barb 20 -> Barb/Ftr/Rog 24/4/2
Half-Orc

Str 18 (25+1)
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 6

WF (Dwarven Waraxe)
Imp Crit
Exotic Prof.
Blindfight
Power Attack
KD+IKD

Armor Skin
EWF
WS+EWS
Thundering Rage
Epic Skill Focus (Disc)
Epic Prowess (running out of good feats)

As far as I see, the pros of this build, compared to Ruce's version above:
Easier buff management
+3 AB
+7 constant damage (+1 from the exotic weapon)
IKD (and no need for Ring of the Ram)
+30 HP and 7 rounds of rage daily.
Discipline for PvP
Getting Thundering Rage while I still need it

Whereas the cons:
-9 Saves
-2 temporary damage
-9 temporary AC

Meh, I guess it's a matter of preference I need to decide on.

Need advice on a Svirfneblin Shifter. Could I still get good epic shapes with the -2 ECL limitation?

Would I be ok with only 17 Shifter levels? What else to take with those 6 remaining levels? I know most would say Monk but that feels so lame and a bit inappropriate for the character. What about Rogue or Fighter? Cleric would be best for the RP. Need help

Druid/Rogue/Shifter gives tumble, UMD, a few sneaks and skill dumps, quite handy. With +2 ECL getting all the good shapes can be diufficult.

What if i put all my Epic feats into Wisdom? Could I get a Dragon shape?

Starting Wisdom of 20 at level 3 if I'm right

CoT is an option. You can take Great Wisdom for the bonus feats if you take it in epic. Few of those, with Smurf WIS bonus, you could walk to 30 Wis for Dragonshape. Easily. And have a few epic feats left over for Prowess, Armour Skin etc. Discipline skilldump possible too.

Drd5/Shf17/CoT6? ((Edit: That one is impossible, I think, but something like that))

It's not difficult to reach the Wisdom of 30, since you'll be starting with a juicy 20, that's 3 Great Wisdom feats taken at epics. I can remember trying a Druid/Shifter/HS, worked out nicely.

Now that I think about it, which epic shape would best reflect a Giant Ooze or Jelly? I was thinking Green Dragon but I'm not sure

Also, any pre-epic feat suggestions for Shifter?

EDIT: Messed around making him myself... can You take the 11th level of shifter on Amia BEFORE epic character levels?

If not what to take? Rogue is leading the charge but I think I'm limited to 4 levels. I want as many epic shapes as possible and I think I can get Dragon, Construct and Undead if I only take 4 levels of Rogue

Is this true with a Svif shifter?

Quote:

EDIT: Messed around making him myself... can You take the 11th level of shifter on Amia BEFORE epic character levels?

Nope.

Hey! I'm making the Ghaunadaur svirfneblin shifter!

but thats okay because it would be cool to have LOTS

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

EDIT: Messed around making him myself... can You take the 11th level of shifter on Amia BEFORE epic character levels?

Nope.

Curses! Well, Tormak, considering what you've done with the shifter forms(magnificent work by the way, an Underdark Shifter will be entirely tenable now) have you any suggestions for pre-Epic feats and a third character class?

5 druid/6 CoT/19 Shifter, 5/5/10 pre epic, 1 Cot and 9 shifter in epic, will get you every single shifter form in the entire game, including dragon.

But only if you start with 19 wis as a Ffolk or Mulani.

TormakSaber wrote:

5 druid/6 CoT/19 Shifter, 5/5/10 pre epic, 1 Cot and 9 shifter in epic, will get you every single shifter form in the entire game, including dragon.

But only if you start with 19 wis as a Ffolk or Mulani.

What if you start with 20 wisdom as a smurf?

You'll lose the general feat at 30 and either the Shifter19 or CoT6 feat if you go smurfular. The +1 WIS at start is cancelled by one of those feats being a Great WIS, so you just lose out on the other.

"The Other" in this case being one of the four Shape feats in epic.

Uberuce wrote:

You'll lose the general feat at 30 and either the Shifter19 or CoT6 feat if you go smurfular. The +1 WIS at start is cancelled by one of those feats being a Great WIS, so you just lose out on the other.

Happy to lose outsider or undead (I think outsider is least suited to a slime herding Smurf of Ghuanadar). How would I put the build together and still have access to Dragon Shape? Could a Epic level Bonus feat for Fighter give me the 30 Wis I need? I've been messing around in debug mode and I can't make it happen. And what to take in pre-epic feats? Is there any point in taking things like weapon finesse or save booster feats? Shifters are hard to make

The Incognitos wrote:

Happy to lose outsider or undead (I think outsider is least suited to a slime herding Smurf of Ghuanadar). How would I put the build together though? I've been messing around in debug mode and I can't make it happen. And what to take in pre-epic feats? Is there any point in taking things like weapon finesse or save booster feats? Shifters are hard to make

Outsider has Slaad... if that slobbery half-frog aint slimy enough I dont know what is

The Incognitos wrote:

Happy to lose outsider or undead (I think outsider is least suited to a slime herding Smurf of Ghuanadar). How would I put the build together and still have access to Dragon Shape? Could a Epic level Bonus feat for Fighter give me the 30 Wis I need? I've been messing around in debug mode and I can't make it happen. And what to take in pre-epic feats? Is there any point in taking things like weapon finesse or save booster feats? Shifters are hard to make

I would say that the save booster feats are necessary to take, maybe not all of them, but the majority of your combat will be brought from the shift itself, not feats, if i'm right.

EDIT: figured i might as well not double post.

I brought this up to you guys earlier, but i have a slightly new plan. I am taking monk/sorc/RDD 20/1/9 but i can't decide if i should take 1 less ab and take the sorc at level 20 and take monk at level 30 for tumble dump, or just take the sorc/RDD in epic and lose the rest of my tumble.

Taking pre-epic sorc means:
-1 AB
+2 AC

Vice versa for taking epic sorc.

Suggestions? And don't say you shouldn't take RDD, its a requested char that is based upon that fact. This char will have dev for unarmed, and if i take the feats i think i will, ends with 30 str.

For pre-epic sorc:

1:Monk1: Luck of Heroes
2:Monk2:
3:Monk3: WF (unarmed)
4:Monk4:
5:Monk5:
6:Monk6: Power Attack
7:Monk7:
8:Monk8:
9:Monk9: Great Cleave
10:Monk10:
11:Monk11:
12:Monk12: Imp. Crit. (unarmed)
13:Monk13:
14:Monk14:
15:Monk15: Blind Fight
16:Monk16:
17:Monk17:
18:Monk18: Great fort?
19:Monk19:
20:Sorc1:
21:RDD1: EWF (unarmed)
22:RDD2:
23:RDD3:
24:RDD4: Overwhelming Crit (unarmed)
25:RDD5:
26:RDD6:
27:RDD7: Devastating Crit (unarmed)
28:RDD8:
29:RDD9:
30:Monk20: Great Str.

Will post other build soon, heading to bed for tonight, sorry! Will also finish what the other details of this one is.

Quote:

And don't say you shouldn't take RDD, its a requested char that is based upon that fact.

Make a different character concept too, then.

Is it possible to take 21 levels (or 22 levels even) of Wizard and get Dragon Knight or Mummy dust?

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