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Falling Spider
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 Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 20:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: Because its magically enchanted to make you stronger. KD is meant to be a physical feat, something that you learned, not a magic spell.
Nothin' more physical than being strong.
Also: Balgoron's Iron Horn KDs people, along with a few bigby spells. Gust of wind is strong enough to open doors, and Knock hits locked doors hard enough that they open.
Take your pick, seriously. Magic can do whatever it wants, it's /magic/. That's the entire point.
If you're seriously going to sit there and say a force that lets people turn into dragons can't make a ring that helps you bowl people over, I'll just be over here laughing.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Mr T
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 20:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: England
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[quote]If you're seriously going to sit there and say a force that lets people turn into dragons can't make a ring that helps you bowl people over, I'll just be over here laughing.
[quote]
Or maybe you can't *quite* understand the difference between magic and feats...
Seriously the whole *point* of feats is that they are learned (or simulated/evolved) natural abilities. It's not that magic *can't* do the aforesaid knockdown it's just that the effect will be different to the knock down feat. Obviously within nwn limited program there are only so many options but it seriously cheapens feats for them to be available on an item.
It's borderline broken and smacks of having ones cake and eating it too. I wonder how many long-term players on here use the ''build defining items''  . PS if its magic why in frecks sake when i use Tenser's Transformation in the PnP do you not get a raft of fighter feats? Surely its the *least* magic can do? Oh thats right because your damned pure wiz/sorc hasn't learned to use those abilites (via level or *feat* investment).
Mr T
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Kezman
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 21:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: ireland
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isnt the ring magical? couldnt it be posible that theres a spell on it that basically gives you the knowledge or strength to perform knockdown when you put it on. heck i dont see much difference with this ring than any magical item, they are enchanced so that they will effect the wearer in a certain way be it good or bad... im not familiar with the limits of magic but i dont think it be outside its limit to make someone know a certain move knockdown,whirlwind just their ability to perform it will be down to there own strength, heck having knockdown not going do any good if you a weakling.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 21:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Mr T wrote: It's borderline broken and smacks of having ones cake and eating it too. I wonder how many long-term players on here use the ''build defining items'' Me! Me! Me! I made my Ftr/WM Epic Dodge dude a handaxer as much as anything because of the Galdorn's Legacy.
Magic handaxe, woo.
I've neglected KD as a feat a few times too, because of the Ring of the Ram.
Magic ring, woo.
I have this wacky notion that it's a computer game, not a simulation of a world that *actually exists* which makes it very easy for me to giggle at your offended tone.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 21:42 PM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Hey Kezman! That's been a long time ago!
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 21:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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So, basically, you just don't like it because people wont have to take knockdown. Alright.
Back to builds.
Highleveled blackguard, go.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Really Evil Pigeon
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 22:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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would tell you then I would have to kill you
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 22:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Falling Spider wrote: So, basically, you just don't like it because people wont have to take knockdown. Alright.
Back to builds.
Highleveled blackguard, go.
Sword n board, LE BG 16/WM 7/ fgr 7, strength based, pick up dev crit, wisdom 14 - 10 depending if you think the BG abilities are useful or not. I leave that upto you.
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Mr T
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 22:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: England
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Quote: I have this wacky notion that it's a computer game, not a simulation of a world that *actually exists* which makes it very easy for me to giggle at your offended tone.
Thanks i've been waiting for this for awhile!  It is a game so how about BoT for darkfire to positive and negative...its fun. Or rebranding el sucko EDK as the real deal since its fun I used it now its...not so fun. Oh and please don't nerf my dragon-monk, its a game and I play to have fun ! These boards really are hilarious.
PS I must remember to memorise burning hands tonight, how else will I cook the dinner... 
Mr T
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2009, 23:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Brace for bad pun in 3..
2..
1..
Why would you need burning hands when you're already flaming?
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 2:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Half-orc Str builds trying to decide which would be best. Fighter6/BG16/Rogue8, Fighter7/WM7/BG16, Monk6/Fight6/Rogue19
Or something else. The idea is still to have a brutal thug character thats supposed to be a minion to a mastermind PC i'm just trying to make sure he's not a weakling but I dont want to take caster classes :/
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 2:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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BeautifulLie wrote: Half-orc Str builds trying to decide which would be best. Fighter6/BG16/Rogue8, Fighter7/WM7/BG16, Monk6/Fight6/Rogue19
Or something else. The idea is still to have a brutal thug character thats supposed to be a minion to a mastermind PC i'm just trying to make sure he's not a weakling but I dont want to take caster classes :/
I'd be more inclined to take Ftr/Bg/Rogue then the Monk/Ftr/Rogue. WM reqs are too painful for the half-orc.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 4:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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BeautifulLie wrote: Half-orc Str builds trying to decide which would be best. Fighter6/BG16/Rogue8, Fighter7/WM7/BG16, Monk6/Fight6/Rogue19
Or something else. The idea is still to have a brutal thug character thats supposed to be a minion to a mastermind PC i'm just trying to make sure he's not a weakling but I dont want to take caster classes :/
I would drop 2 fighter of that and go Ten Rogue.
Crippling strike will garner alot of love in FvF and Bossrunning.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Uberuce
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 6:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Yarp, I'd fight tooth and nail for Crippling. Lovely lovely feat.
Mr T wrote: Thanks i've been waiting for this for awhile! It is a game so how about BoT for darkfire to positive and negative...its fun. Or rebranding el sucko EDK as the real deal since its fun I used it now its...not so fun. Oh and please don't nerf my dragon-monk, its a game and I play to have fun ! These boards really are hilarious. You waited a while to self-pwn? Broken balance is fun for the person exploiting it; not so much for everyone else.
I don't see the items with feats on them as broken, not least because everyone can use them. They don't persist when shifted, they take up a Mythal power, they commit you to that specific item in that specific slot, and for Disarm/dualwielding/Knockdown/spell foci, you only get the crappier version.
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Ts_
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 14:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Uberuce wrote: [items with feats] don't persist when shifted
They don't? Did you check that? Usually I would expect that bonus feats merge like any other item property. I can try this out tonight, I suppose. Ring of the ram seems like a good candidate for testing.
Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Uberuce
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Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 17:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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*punches self in nuts*
Sorry, polymorphed, not shifted. I'm clueless as to the Shifter/Druid merging of feats, although from the presence of the Kumakawa in the treehuggers shop I'll guess yes.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 0:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Thug Half-orc build revised and revisited.
Str 18 -> 25(GrtStrI)
Dex 8
Con 10
Int 12 -> 13
Wis 14
Cha 12
Fighter 4/ Rogue 10/ BG 16
1F) Power Attack, Exotic Weapon
2F) Cleave
3R) Weapon Focus: Scythe
4R) +1 Int
5R)
6F) Great Cleave
7R)
8BG) +1 Str
9BG) Knock Down
10R)
11BG)
12BG) Imp Crit: Scythe, +1 Str
13BG)
14BG)
15R) Blind Fight
16BG) +1 Str
17BG)
18R) Imp Knock Down
19R)
20R) +1 Str
21F) Weapon Spec: Scythe, Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22BG)
23BG)
24BG) Overwhelming Crit: Scythe, +1 Str
25BG)
26BG) Armor Skin
27R) Great Strength, Cripling Strike
28BG) +1 Str (25 Base Str here)
29BG)
30BG) Devestating Crit: Scythe, Epic Fiendish Servant.
Gets 10d6 Sneak, 40 base Disc, 30 Tumble, 20 Umd, some other stuff. So how's this build stack up? With the 14 Wis he gets all bg spells so thats some pretty good things there Scythe for crazy dmg plus I believe the Scythe is the bg favored weapon of the module (Not certain could be Great Sword)
Anyways thoughts, improvements? Should I not go for Dev Crit and just satisfy myself with Epic Prowress and something else?
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 0:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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BeautifulLie wrote: Thug Half-orc build revised and revisited.
Str 18 -> 25(GrtStrI)
Dex 8
Con 10
Int 12 -> 13
Wis 14
Cha 12
Fighter 4/ Rogue 10/ BG 16
1F) Power Attack, Exotic Weapon
2F) Cleave
3R) Weapon Focus: Scythe
4R) +1 Int
5R)
6F) Great Cleave
7R)
8BG) +1 Str
9BG) Knock Down
10R)
11BG)
12BG) Imp Crit: Scythe, +1 Str
13BG)
14BG)
15R) Blind Fight
16BG) +1 Str
17BG)
18R) Imp Knock Down
19R)
20R) +1 Str
21F) Weapon Spec: Scythe, Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22BG)
23BG)
24BG) Overwhelming Crit: Scythe, +1 Str
25BG)
26BG) Armor Skin
27R) Great Strength, Cripling Strike
28BG) +1 Str (25 Base Str here)
29BG)
30BG) Devestating Crit: Scythe, Epic Fiendish Servant.
Gets 10d6 Sneak, 40 base Disc, 30 Tumble, 20 Umd, some other stuff. So how's this build stack up? With the 14 Wis he gets all bg spells so thats some pretty good things there Scythe for crazy dmg plus I believe the Scythe is the bg favored weapon of the module (Not certain could be Great Sword)
Anyways thoughts, improvements? Should I not go for Dev Crit and just satisfy myself with Epic Prowress and something else? Oh always go for Dev Crit if you can get it. Quote: Scythe for crazy dmg
A Bastard sword at 15/20 criticals will likely put out on average more damage than a scythe will at 18/20. It'll also net you 7 More AC using a shield.
Scythes are underwhelming and look stupid. The only positive i can see is piercing/slashing damage. You can get that on a halberd. The X4 really only comes into play on a WM in my honest opinion.
You should also start Rogue. More skill points that way.
Evils fav weapon of the module really isn't the scythe. Its greatsword/rapier/kukri in that order based on my knowledge of the stores.
Thuggish weapons? Clubs, Quaterstaff, Mace, Heavy Flail, Rapier and halberd given its a pretty thuggish weapon.
Scythes yuckers.
Drop Cha to 10 if your not taking Divine might/shield. Then you can start with 13 int and invest that other point into Str giving you 26 str base at end = +1AB/Damage.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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Maybe I'm a bit naive, but without any charisma, wouldn't those BG classes be better replaced with something else?
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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ticket
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Re: Your bg half-orc... I'd drop CHA, -2 to your saves  , and re-arrange the order of classes so you can get epic weapon specialization in there, delay the 20% xp penalty until level 18, get more skill points, and round up your ending STR to 26.
Half-Orc
STR: 20 (26)
DEX: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 12 (13)
CHA: 6
Pre-Epic F(4),R(7), B(10)
1R) Power Attack
2F) Cleave
3F) Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Weapon Focus: Scythe
4F) STR+1
5R)
6R) Blind Fight
7R)
8B) STR+1
9B) Improved Critical: Scythe
10B)
11B)
12B) INT+1, Knockdown
13B)
14B)
15B) Improved Knockdown
16B) STR+1
17B)
18R) Great Cleave
19R)
20R) STR+1
F(1),R(3), B(6)
21B) Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22R)
23B)
24F) STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Scythe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Scythe
25B) Overwhelming Critical: Scythe
26B)
27R) Devastating Critical: Scythe
28B) STR+1
29R) Crippling Strike
30B) Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 15/11/11
- You also get improved critical & devastating critical earlier. That should help you level up faster.
- I'm not so sure about Armor skin, might get something else that could help your saves... Not sure which would give more mileage.
edit: You might want to reshuffle the order of classes in epic to go for dev crit at level 24, while pushing weapon specialization/epic weapon specialization at level 27. It's probably better.
21B) Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22R)
23B)
24B) STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Scythe, Devastating Critical: Scythe
25B)
26B)
27F) Weapon Specialization: Scythe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Scythe
28R) STR+1
29R) Crippling Strike
30B) Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant
Last edited by ticket on Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Bobo_Underhill wrote: Maybe I'm a bit naive, but without any charisma, wouldn't those BG classes be better replaced with something else?
Yus
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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So changing Scythe to bastard sword and why would I want to drop Cha. sure it sucks only having 12 cha but... *Scratches head* hrum... and Torm, using LE for this character nets the dwarf npc pet when I do my book of vile deeds = a bigby's interposing spam pet. >;3
Edit: Its also not -completely- necessary he be a Half-orc if being Human helped the build i'd be willing to play that instead. Maybe even a dwarf type dunno suggestions?
Edit2: Could drop some wis to improve Cha or Int early on dunno but those later on bg spells are kinda nice. Some are 'meh' though such as the nat armor AC one thats kinda 'iffy' for its goodness imho
Edit3: After looking at the BG Wis spells I realise that most aren't needed in fact none really help this build alot accept aura of Despair which needs no Wis so this build could drop Wis and pump Cha maybe sneak a Divine Might/Shield into it somewhere (Doubtfull)? I'll have to fidget with it more... : /
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
Last edited by BeautifulLie on Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:54 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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xordae
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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I wouldn't consider alignment too much when making your Blackguard. NE is arguably the beefiest as it is now, but I'm pretty sure they'll get an overhaul at some point in the future. They gotta. The Arcanaloth is just too much. The LE one has spells, but an abysmal caster level (so I heard), and the CE one is an epic sneaker who can't hit the broad side of a barn.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 1:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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xordae wrote: I wouldn't consider alignment too much when making your Blackguard. NE is arguably the beefiest as it is now, but I'm pretty sure they'll get an overhaul at some point in the future. They gotta. The Arcanaloth is just too much. The LE one has spells, but an abysmal caster level (so I heard), and the CE one is an epic sneaker who can't hit the broad side of a barn.
Whats the Arcanaloth do?
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 2:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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This is the build I'm playing right now, currently level 18. I originally had the Fighter level at 20 so for Armour Skin, but it didn't take me long to work out that I needed it pre-Epic for Armour/Weapon Proficiencies on a Rogue with 8 Dex (and I had forgotten Blind Fight). I haven't finished re-working things in the spreadsheet yet so this is incomplete. I am undecided whether I should leave BG16 until 30 to max Discipline for KD (not enough Int for IKD) or leave things as they are and max Spot/Listen. 12d6 Sneaks and Dev Crit looks pretty damned nasty.
Rogue(13), Fighter(1), Blackguard(16), Human
STR: 18 (26)
DEX: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 8
CHA: 14
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Rogue(1): Cleave, Power Attack
02: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
03: Rogue(3): Knockdown, {Uncanny Dodge I}
04: Rogue(4): STR+1, (STR=19)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Great Cleave
07: Fighter(1): Blind Fight
08: Rogue(7): STR+1, (STR=20)
09: Rogue(8 ): Weapon Focus
10: Blackguard(1)
11: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good}
12: Blackguard(3): STR+1, Divine Might, (STR=21)
13: Blackguard(4)
14: Blackguard(5)
15: Blackguard(6): Divine Shield
16: Blackguard(7): STR+1, (STR=22)
17: Blackguard(8 )
18: Blackguard(9): Improved Critical
19: Blackguard(10)
20: Rogue(9): STR+1, (STR=23)
21: Rogue(10): Epic Weapon Focus, Crippling Strike
22: Blackguard(11)
23: Blackguard(12)
24: Blackguard(13): STR+1, Great Strength I, Overwhelming Critical, (STR=25)
25: Blackguard(14)
26: Blackguard(15)
27: Blackguard(16): Devastating Critical, Epic Fiendish Servant
28: Rogue(11): STR+1, (STR=26)
29: Rogue(12)
30: Rogue(13): Epic Prowess, Slippery Mind
Hitpoints: 248
Skillpoints: 162
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 19/15/15
Saving Throw bonuses: Traps: +2
BAB: 22
AB (max, naked): 34 (melee), 22 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 15/26
Discipline 30(38 ), Heal 4(6), Hide 5(4), Listen 33(35), Pick Pocket 1(0), Spot 33(35), Tumble 30(29), UMD 25(27), remaining skillpoints 1
01: Heal(2), Hide(4), Listen(4), Pick Pocket(1), Spot(4), Tumble(4), UMD(4), Save(9),
02: Hide(1), Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(12),
03: Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(16),
04: Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(20),
05: Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(24),
06: Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(28 ),
07: Discipline(1), Save(29),
08: Listen(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(33),
09: Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(38 ),
10: Discipline(12), Save(28 ),
11: Discipline(1), Save(29),
12: Discipline(1), Save(30),
13: Discipline(1), Save(31),
14: Discipline(1), Save(32),
15: Discipline(1), Save(33),
16: Discipline(1), Save(34),
17: Discipline(1), Save(35),
18: Discipline(1), Save(36),
19: Discipline(1), Save(37),
20: Listen(12), Spot(1), Tumble(11), UMD(12), Save(9),
21: Listen(1), Spot(11), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(3),
22: Discipline(3), Save(2),
23: Discipline(1), Save(3),
24: Discipline(1), Save(4),
25: Discipline(1), Save(5),
26: Discipline(1), Save(6),
27: Discipline(1), Save(7),
28: Listen(7), Tumble(7), UMD(1),
29: Listen(1), Spot(7),
30: Heal(2), Listen(2), Spot(3), Save(1),
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
Last edited by Sokar Rostau on Thu, Apr 16 2009, 2:13 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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xordae
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 2:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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It has a DC 55ish Mass Blindness/Deafness spell that it can fire a good dozen times. It also can buff you, and does not go down easy itself.
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 2:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Two concepts. A /very/ draconic dragon disciple (Fully embraces his draconic roots, and feats/abilities reflect it)
And a theurge. You know, divine/arcane magic in one character.
Let's see you do one of those! Hah. Please.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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xordae
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 2:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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I like the Theurge idea. 18 Sorc / 12 Cleric or 13 Sorc / 17 Cleric.
The numbers, I've chosen so that for whichever Class he majors in, he will have 9th level spells. The secondary Class gets 6th level spells. 15 / 15 is possible, will only net 7th level Arcane and 8th level Divine, though.
Str: 8-10
Dex: 8, 10 or 12
Con: ++
Int: 10, 12 or 14
Wis: 16-18
Cha: 16-18
Healing is a good domain here because it improves your healing spells across the board, as well as adding Heal as a spell one level lower than usual. Most other domains only augment you with arcane spells, and you get those anyways.
You can really juggle around with a build like this. If you want another angle, you could even up your Str to 14, grab Power Attack and invest in Divine Shield. Going a step further, you could add a few levels of Paladin or Blackguard to the whole deal and receive much better saving throws.
The problem, and it's a big one: Your Spells have low CL and you have bad SR breaching capabilities. A pure Cleric will outperform you, as will a pure Sorcerer. Your best bet would be spells that either have no saving throw, or spells that do not scale up. Such as disablers, death magic, etc. For the latter you'll want the Foci. Also planned is Epic Penetration, as well as Extend Spell.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The Theurge really doesn't work in NWN, unless you could a cleric/wiz/AA as a mystic theurge with Divine and "arcane".
As for the Draconic Dragon Disciple, you can do that easy by being like 10 fighter/2bard/18 RDD or something.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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DoomKnight
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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Im looking for advice on any build that wont get me pwned early on...
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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DoomKnight wrote: Im looking for advice on any build that wont get me pwned early on...
That really doesn't help us. What class role are you wanting? Tank? Damage? Sneak? Do you have a character concept? We need to know what you want to build before we can help you build it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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The thing to remember is that quite often the Class that is strong early on becomes weak later on and vice-versa.
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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DoomKnight
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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ah, yes, i apologize for that, im more of a sneaker myself but i was hoping for a good mage build idea...
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DoomKnight
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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The mage is a classic example of being a piss-weak girly-man in a dress with the hit-points of a drowned chicken at early levels... but can become a monster in Epic.
The tank, on the other hand, depending on build, is usually very strong at low levels with their high AC/HP, but becomes mediocre at best later on unless they have someone to buff them to the eyeballs.
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Half-Orc
STR: 20 (26)
DEX: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 12 (13)
CHA: 6
Pre-Epic F(4),R(7), B(10)
1R) Power Attack
2F) Cleave
3F) Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Weapon Focus: Scythe
4F) STR+1
5R)
6R) Blind Fight
7R)
8B) STR+1
9B) Improved Critical: Scythe
10B)
11B)
12B) INT+1, Knockdown
13B)
14B)
15B) Improved Knockdown
16B) STR+1
17B)
18R) Great Cleave
19R)
20R) STR+1
21B) Epic Weapon Focus: Scythe
22R)
23B)
24B) STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Scythe, Devastating Critical: Scythe
25B)
26B)
27F) Weapon Specialization: Scythe, Epic Weapon Specialization: Scythe
28R) STR+1
29R) Crippling Strike
30B) Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant[/quote]
I modified this for a human BG I have a question do Weapon Spec and Epic Weapon Spec stack aka its 6 bonus to dmg not just 4 only? cause WS = 2 and EWS = 4 so im assuming they stack for 6. Anyways here's the modified to Human version and I dropped crazy weapon in favor of a longsword.
Human
STR: 18 (26)
DEX: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 14
Pre-Epic F(4),R(7), B(10)
1R) Power Attack, Cleave
2F) Weapon Focus: Longsword
3F) Blind Fight, Knockdown
4F) STR+1
5R)
6R) Great Cleave
7R)
8B) STR+1
9B) Improved Critical: Long Sword
10B)
11B)
12B) INT+1, Divine Might
13B)
14B)
15B) Divine Shield
16B) STR+1
17B)
18R) Improved Knockdown
19R)
20R) STR+1
21B) Great Strength I
22R)
23B)
24B) STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Longsword, Devastating Critical: Longsword
25B)
26B)
27F) Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword, Weapon Specialization: Longsword
28R) STR+1
29R) Crippling Strike
30B) Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant
As you can see by dropping the Exotic weapon in favor of mundane Longsword I get Divine Shield and Divine Might. I lose Epic Weapon Spec by going Human but gain more in the feat run I think as well as Dmg wise because I will be able to use Divine Might to make up for the loss of EWS
Is this better? Or worse? btw it gets bookoo skill points I ended up with like 33 Conc, 33 Disc, 33 Heal, 30 Tumble, 15 Umd, 17 Persuade, 33 Taunt, 33 Intimidate, 15 Appraise etc. you get the picture.
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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DoomKnight
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 3:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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>.> can you do the classes in 3 letters? i cant tell if thats a fighter/ranger/bard or a fighter/rogue/barbarian...
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 4:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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It's a Fighter/Rogue/Blackguard... as discussed on this and the last page.
If you fiddle around you can drop Armour Skin and get E/WS on the same level. Also, see the build I posted earlier (Human BG16/Ro13/F1).
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 4:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Doom, my post was concerning a build i'm working on for my own character and discussing with others. Sokar: Yea your build is neat but im just checking all my options.
Edit: Is EWS (+4 dmg) > AS (+2 AC) ? I'm not quite certain in this instance. Assuming that Divine Might is bringing up the overall dmg.
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 5:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Hell yes.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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ticket
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 5:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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BeautifulLie wrote: I modified this for a human BG I have a question do Weapon Spec and Epic Weapon Spec stack aka its 6 bonus to dmg not just 4 only? cause WS = 2 and EWS = 4 so im assuming they stack for 6.
...
As you can see by dropping the Exotic weapon in favor of mundane Longsword I get Divine Shield and Divine Might. I lose Epic Weapon Spec by going Human but gain more in the feat run I think as well as Dmg wise because I will be able to use Divine Might to make up for the loss of EWS
Is this better? Or worse? btw it gets bookoo skill points I ended up with like 33 Conc, 33 Disc, 33 Heal, 30 Tumble, 15 Umd, 17 Persuade, 33 Taunt, 33 Intimidate, 15 Appraise etc. you get the picture.
WS & EWS does stack, so yes it's +6 damage.
Heehee, well since you're going with a martial weapon, you might take a look at a Scimitar. 40% chance for crits baby! 
And since you're going human already, you might want to make a Tuigan character. The extra STR will translate into a free epic feat - no need for GRT STR!
Finally yes, having divine might and shield is always better. The build looks monstrous already, I wouldn't want to be fighting that BG. 
Edit: Oh, why not increase your umd higher, to like 23(25) or 18(20) or even higher. 15 is usually enough for most cases, but there might be some nice items that could complement your BG nicely that needs higher umd. Shop around first.
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 5:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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DoomKnight wrote: Im looking for advice on any build that wont get me pwned early on...
Wizard. Evok/Enchant/Necro. Take either a faerie dragon, a pseudodragon, or an imp.
Get invis as soon as possible. Let your familiar farm for you.
Huzee.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 8:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Falling Spider wrote: DoomKnight wrote: Im looking for advice on any build that wont get me pwned early on... Wizard. Evok/Enchant/Necro. Take either a faerie dragon, a pseudodragon, or an imp. Get invis as soon as possible. Let your familiar farm for you. Huzee. Or just play as trength based barbie, greataxe with 'sword and board' as back up. Level of fighter early on for heavy armour. Take expertise fairly early on just pwn. Quicker farming than the mage and just as safe. Oh and more exciting too...sitting in invis = lame
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Uberuce
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 9:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Expertise and Rage? I couldn't do it.
Power-wise it's an excellent choice; all that AB will punch through the -5 ganking, but RPly it's a bit of a contradiction in terms, n'est pas?
I suppose if your character is normally a fairly quiet chap, who from time to time utterly loses the plot and goes berserk, then Expertise would be fine for his happy times, but for your standard mentalist orcblood it seems a bit out of sorts.
Regardless of the character, I can't reconcile the reckless bloodlust of Rage working at the same time as the defensive caution of Expertise mode.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 11:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If you'd like to cement that with lore: During Raging, you are incapable of making or using any skill that has Intelligence as its related attribute. Expertise is an Intelligence related feat. Go figure.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 12:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Heehee, well since you're going with a martial weapon, you might take a look at a Scimitar. 40% chance for crits baby!
Edit: Oh, why not increase your umd higher, to like 23(25) or 18(20) or even higher. 15 is usually enough for most cases, but there might be some nice items that could complement your BG nicely that needs higher umd. Shop around first.[/quote]
Hmmm well Scims are ok but im not certain if Scim > Longsword in overall steady dps with this build. Sure dev crit is fun but at the same time it's nice to have a weapon with slightly higher Dps that also doesn't make people just look at you and go "Oh he's a dev critter"
In regards to the UMD, sure I can do that I could even take it to 28 Umd for 30 total I was just poking around with all the skill to see what i'd end up with you know? 
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 13:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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A barbarian with a scimitar? I guess it's all right if he's Mongolian, but if he's not, go with a greataxe. So much more style.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 13:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: A barbarian with a scimitar? I guess it's all right if he's Mongolian, but if he's not, go with a greataxe. So much more style.
That would be a BG with a Scimitar...
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 14:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Anything with scimitar abandons all style.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, Apr 16 2009, 14:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Or battleaxe if you want shield.
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