Let me preface this by saying that this is an issue on a lot of NWN servers, it's not Amia-specific and is very apparent if you read the BioWare boards from time to time. I've said some of this before, but given how often the opposite view is spammed I feel it is perfectly within my rights to repeat myself. And please, if you can't be bothered to read this post don't bother replying to it*. Also, there is a difference between RP and "RP", it's not a grammatical error.

Amia has a distinct lack of RP. This is something that many people agree with and threads dealing with the subject seem to pop up every other week, but most of the people that hold this view seem to be singing in the same chorus line - that "RP" only exists in towns (and by "towns" I also mean Faction areas and other spawn-free zones). Many of those same people seem to hold the view (and quotes to the effect can be found in just about every thread on the subject on these boards) that killing monsters, derisively termed "hunting", is boring, tedious and that if such activity can't be removed altogether measures should be taken to severely restrict it on the grounds that "hunting" is a purely OOC evil that takes away from "RP".

What these people seem to mean when they say "RP" is standing around talking or writing huge blocks of prose describing the colour of their hair. They seem to believe that "RP" means seeking out a spouse and having children while gossiping about who is screwing whom. Talking in accents is also apparently a measure of one's competence as an "RP"er - it doesn't matter what inane rubbish, from the weather to the taste of the beer that is getting one "RP"ly drunk, you are talking about so long as there's plenty of accent. Supposedly, this is "Real RP". Amia is an RP server, therefore you must talk in accents while gossiping with your wife's brother before going off to have tea and scones while you discuss the weather with some random person you've just met.

That's fine, excellent even, RP if you're playing The Sims, Second Life or an online soap opera. But you're not playing Second Life, you're playing on a Neverwinter Nights server and Neverwinter Nights is a Dungeons & Dragons game. It's called Dungeons & Dragons, and not Gossip & Giggling, Parents & Peasants, The Young & The Restless or The Bold & The Beautiful, for a reason. Dungeons & Dragons is, arguably, the original RPG, but the majority of what NWN players call "RP" does not resemble in any way the RP that D&D is about.

The whole point of D&D RP is to play a hero on an adventure crawling through a dungeon and defeating a dragon, or some other monstrous foe, to claim a treasure or rescue a town/person. It is about being a part of something by playing the role of fighter, mage, thief or healer. Role Playing, in D&D terms, is about playing the role of a hero on an adventure.

And therein lies the problem with Amia. Going dungeon crawling is seen as an OOC activity, something you do before you can "RP" (which, apparently, you can't do before level 20) or when you can't find any "RP". "Hunting" is something that "powergamers" do willingly, while the "RP" crowd is somehow forced to do it. The "RP" crowd seems to think that the biggest problem on Amia is that the people that go out "hunting" are somehow destroying "RP". The latest cause celebre for this crowd seems to be Heal potions, the removal of which would somehow enhance "RP" while at the same time making it harder to "hunt" unless you have a Cleric in your group and preventing people from soloing altogether... the gold argument is just a thinly veiled cover for this. Apparently someone alone in the wilderness killing Orcs is a detriment to the soap opera in town. The problem isn't a lack of RP, it's the distinction between "RP" and "hunting".

We should be promoting adventure, not praising melodrama.

It really makes me wonder what people think of Disco's, and other Dev's on other servers, often extraordinary efforts in spending their free time to create, maintain and improve their PWs. Complaining that you hate "hunting" really is a slap in the face to the Dev's. Honestly, why should Disco have bothered with the server split, and all the new areas that came with it, when "hunting" is the hateful domain of "powergamers" and not the hallowed halls of "Real RP"? Do you really disrespect his efforts so much that you demand him make ways to restrict people going to those areas?

If you believe that "RP" involves never leaving town, hanging around in taverns and chasing tail (see what I did there? ) then I have something for you. I downloaded a pre-fab mod off of NWNVault some time ago called Westgate. It is a full, reasonably lore-accurate, large city with houses, temples, shops and taverns. There are no NPCs of any kind which means there is none of that bothersome "hunting" to get in the way of your "RP". I will PM you the link to it, or email the mod, and you can put it up on the RP section of GameSpy and populate it with "RP" players to play the merchants and commoners. You'll have to find the auto-level-up script so that players can set which level they want for yourself. "RP" Utopia, knock yourself out.

That said, there are some things that could be done to improve the RP situation on Amia, and push it in the direction suitable for a D&D environment. There is a disconnect between leveling and the RP that should be going with it. The problem comes in two forms.

The first is the XP gain. It is easy to get to level 30 in under a week. If I remember correctly the record is well under two days. The average would be, at a guess, between a few weeks and a few months but this is exactly the issue with XP. Trying to promote party-play is all well and good, but it's a waste of time when your entire party could be out of your level range if you don't log in for one day.

You know what I loathe about Amia? The fact that every single time I log in I have to reintroduce my character to between five and twenty others... and that when I finally get sick and tired of doing it, and don't introduce my character to the 21st random to join the group, I am dismissed as a "hunter". This is a direct consequence of the ease of leveling a character on Amia. One day can mean the difference between partying with the same people and meeting a whole new party. It's also the difference between in-depth RP and never getting beyond the shallows of the first meeting - primarily because most of those characters will never be in your party again because they'll be out of range in a day or two.

The best time I have had on Amia was the week, or so, it took me to level my Dragon Shaper. In that time every single party I had consisted of some combination of the same 10 people. None of this was arranged, it just happened by virtue of the fact that we were all leveling at roughly the same pace. Our characters got to know each other. We learned each others strengths and weaknesses. We laughed at and got annoyed over our quirks. We knew each others likes and dislikes. We got into arguments that ended in bloodshed. We got into conversations that ended in laughter. We knew each other. We had a history. That history came because we shared an adventure that took us from about level 5 to max level. And then? Then some people went off to "RP" and the rest simply disappeared (actually, I haven't seen any of them for more than six months). No other character I have made has had such an experience. As I have said many times before, albeit in a different context, I also got more DCs in that time than all the rest of my characters put together.

You might argue "but you can do it now! Just organise a party that only hunts together!", but how often has this been tried and failed? How often are people that do this forced to do nothing, or simply play another character, while they wait for the others to log in? Perhaps more to the point, how often do these parties come about because of cliques? Yes, I know, this has been a success sometimes, but parties that adventure together should be the rule, not the exception. It should happen naturally, not because of an agreement made between a pre-existing group of people.

The reason it doesn't happen naturally is because of the ease with which one can gain XP. Again, XP is gained so fast that one can be outside of the level range on Tuesday of the people you partied with on Sunday. Put another way, the speed with which a character gains levels prevents them from RPing with others. Characters, especially at low levels, are just random faces in a crowd that you're unlikely to ever see again... until you walk into Cordor a couple of weeks later and see them standing around gossiping with a dozen or so, of the hundreds, of max levels that populate the server.

Yes, I am calling for less XP on Amia.

"OMGOMGOMG that just encourages "hunting" and I HATE "hunting"!" I only want to "RP"!" No, I'm not trying to promote OOC "hunting", I am trying to promote adventuring, I want to see more of the real D&D RP, more of the camaraderie that comes from being part of a group. I want to learn about other characters over time, not get their whole life story the first time I meet them and then never see them again. Doing so does not need to be forced by making BoB-style uber-spawns where Epics use GS to avoid level 10 monsters or nerfing skills/items into uselessness. All it takes is an adjustment to the XP gain.

Grinding is a problem in almost every game, which is kind of surprising given that the solution is, more or less, the same in almost all cases. For all it's drawbacks NWN2 does an extremely good job and there is no grinding involved at all. There are exactly enough monsters to fight, and quests to complete, in the OC and MotB to get your (non-ECL) character all the way to 30. Granted, Amia is a Persistent World, not a single player game, but some of the same things do apply, just on a slightly larger scale.

The solution to the grind on Amia, and presumably the tedium that is so hateful to the "RP" crowd, is more and varied quests and spawns. It isn't just a matter of more areas and more quests, but more variation.

Every surfacer does the quest to get the Orc's head. Everybody kills a few dozen Giants on their way to the FGK. If you're in a party, and that party is playing fair, you will do the Orc's head quest at least a couple of times so that everybody can finish it. If you're a low Epic you will run the Spires repeatedly to level up (and then, possibly, repeatedly in a quest for Epic loot). Every character thus has, more or less, the same adventure on Amia. Every player, given a short period of time, knows that around the next corner is a spawn or a trap. They know that killing things in a given area is more rewarding, in terms of loot and XP, than doing the same in another area (although some people clearly do not understand the concept of time/effort and insist on fighting spawns way too hard for them). They know that the quest reward for returning the Orc head is a Raise Dead scroll and there's a possibility of the FGK dropping Epic loot. There needs to be variation.

There needs to be a system where there are quests designed specifically for certain Classes, Alignments, Races and Faiths that also have some variation to them. Personally, I found it a bit silly for my CE character to be doing altruistic quests to save the farmers of Cordor or the citizens of Kohlingen, but for my LG character these are great. There was a choice of either doing them or not.

The Lich Lyrics quest is the ideal template for what I am talking about. It is only available once you have reached a minimum level of Bard. You are then sent to retrieve an item stolen from an NPC, from a boss monster, and by doing so you are rewarded with something you wouldn't otherwise have. This is classic D&D adventuring. If you are around the right level and have a Bard in your party, you have an adventure to go on. The problem is that it's always the same (actually, it isn't much of a problem because it isn't a highly frequented area). You always go to the same place and fight the same monsters for the same reward. Bards do the quest specifically so that they can have Lich Lyrics... which is the point. Wouldn't it be nice, though, if there was a small chance that you would be sent to another location, that the monsters in the Caves were different or that you got a different item? What if there was a tiny chance that instead of the Lich Lyrics you were rewarded with an Epic Bard-only item and you'd have to find some other way to acquire Lich Lyrics? What if there were three quests, each one-shot deals, that all had the possibility of rewarding a Bard with Lich Lyrics, an Epic Bard item (I dunno, something with a big Perform boost), a mundane Bard item or junk? Wouldn't that mean going on an adventure in pursuit of a powerful item, that could potentially turn into a long term thing instead of a quick stroll through a cave? Wouldn't it be great if the Bard missed out on the Lich Lyrics at the normal place, but met a wandering Bard in Brogendenstein that told him he had the Lich Lyrics but they were stolen by Fire Giants?

It's not as if we don't already have the possibility of very good rewards at relatively low levels - Perfect Mythals sell for a fortune and easily equal, if not exceed, the value of some Epic loot. And that's the kind of thing I mean with the possibility of Epic loot. It's a one shot deal with a slim chance of gaining a Perfect Mythal - if you miss out, you miss out. If such rewards came from a specific Bard-only loot bin, that has, say, about a dozen items in it, then having one would be a mark of prestige and would give your Bard an adventure to remember, and a tale to tell... an adventure that he shared with his comrades.

What I'm talking about here is multiple quests possible for each Class that each have a slim chance of high rewards and each have a chance of triggering another quest in a possible chain until a specific item is attained. You don't even need entirely different quests. One NPC might give a Paladin the quest to put to rest a certain Earl and bring peace to Kohlingen, while another NPC gives the quest to a PM to bring back the Necronomicon. Essentially the same quest, but a different adventure for different Classes. In both cases there is a slim chance that the Necronomicon is missing and a clue is found in it's place leading them elsewhere. With random variation, one Paladin could finish the quest in one go, while another is sent all around Amia looking for the infernal book.

Another way to spice things up would be Faith Quests triggered when you first worship your Deity's idol. The reward is a Deity Ring.

Everything should be about the adventure. RPing a Paladin on a quest to rid the world of a vile book is the epitome of D&D RP... but if you're going to the Spires to find the Necronomicon or Lich Lyrics you are still going to the Spires and killing the same things, which brings me to my next point.

The whole reason it is called grinding is because you are doing the exact same thing over and over and over again. Players on Amia know that in Area A they will be facing Monsters X, Y and Z every single time. We know that around this corner there is a spawn and that there is a trap on that door. Many people not only know where the spawns are but where the triggers for those spawns are. They know that once they go through that door they will step on a trap and three Monster As, 2 Monster Bs and one Monster C will appear.

I am a rank amateur when it comes to scripting, but setting up random encounters is one of the first lessons that BioWare's Toolset Tutorial gives. You can set up spawn points that, when triggered, will spawn from a selection of pre-defined monsters, rather than always the same things. No disrespect, but if I can make an area where the same trigger can spawn one level 10, two level 5, three level 3 or five level 2 monsters then surely the Amia Dev's can come up with something more elaborate and creative than always five Trolls.

As a testament to the amount of time I have so far spent on this post, Kjetta posted the following almost 7 hours ago*, about 20 minutes after I started this:



I have seen talk of random traps being placed in some of the new areas. This is a great move. I was, however, saddened to read that a certain random creature had been removed from the module in the last few weeks. There was a certain level of excitement, for those that had met it before, when traveling through that area knowing that some Epic freak could jump out and smash your party at any moment. We need more of those random freaks, not less. Likewise, the Fire Giant Royals used to have a very low chance of using their Gate spells - and when they did it was something you remembered. Now, they always use it which does make the encounter a little harder... but it's lost that variation that made it interesting.

Lowering XP in general means that characters will spend more time adventuring like they should be, rather than leveling up in a few days before they can "RP", and can form relationships with other characters based on their shared experiences on said adventure. Giving varied quests to each Class means that they are adventuring with a purpose and have a reason to be in a given area even if they've been there before. Randomised encounters means that even if you have been through the Spires a dozen times already, the experience will never be exactly the same. To paraphrase Kjetta, the whole point of D&D RP is adventure and there is no adventure without the excitement of random variation. This is the kind of RP that Amia lacks - real D&D RP. Players need to be encouraged to get out there and go on an adventure, not forced to stay in town and gossip.

If you still insist that adventuring is OOC "hunting", which you hate because you only want to play The Bold & The Beautiful with swords, even after the kinds of things suggested here, then there's a very simple solution for you - level up with DCs and continue to complain about the people that you've never met but know are out there somewhere wrecking your "RP".

*Even after writing this whole thing out, I missed a few points but I've spent around 8 hours on this post so you'd damn well better heed my warning in the first paragraph.

_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

I agree with some points you make, but the conclusion that less XP = better hunting experience makes no sense to me. Better players = better hunting, it's always been like that. Find good players to do this with, and you're set. XP isn't a part of the equation. Groups may eventually drift apart level wise one way or the other.. just that with your proposal, it takes a longer time for it to happen (and it'll take longer for a stray to catch up with the others, on the flipside).

I only read the bold parts, and despite you telling me not to, I'll reply anyhow: They're right on the money, particularly the second one.

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That's one of the things I forgot.

By and large, if you fall behind, outside of the ECL, of a given character, you are unlikely to ever be in their range again until you are level 25. You can essentially say goodbye to any adventuring with them again. That's how things work now, and all it takes is a single day without logging in. Less XP means that it will be harder to fall behind your comrades in the first place - rather than a day it might be a week or two. Yes, it will take longer to catch up but you're unlikely to have been adventuring with that character again anyway so what's the difference?

*Slaps Iron*

_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

less XP would just mean people spend more time hunting. That isn't what you want.

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You're right. I don't want people to spend more time "hunting". I want them to spend more time adventuring and less time standing around talking about the weather and who got whom pregnant.

I want more RP and less "RP".

_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

What has RP quality to do with gaining XP? Everyone can make a level 3 character and never ever gain XP and still RP rubbish in Cordor East like Bevery Hills 90210.

I hope you are aware, that none of the people who should read your post will read it, and of the rest of us only the ones who don't get a headache from big walls of text on black background will read it.

To conclude the point above: too long a text, I strongly recommend a summary if you want it to be read at all.

Edit: And this isn't said in bitchy manner. Rather, I noticed you spent a good while on it, and it's a sad fact of life only few brave souls will read through it all. So take this as constructive and helpful criticism.

thats what we don't want. the XP is irrelevant in these sims cases, but it allows more time for real RP adventuring.

EDIT: I love you for this post. I read the whole thing and it made me laugh, cry, and love the world a little bit more!

I see the intent, but I don't think it would gain what Sokar aims at. There's no evidence indicating that XP rate correlates with the persistence of adventuring groups. Do you have any experience of this on other servers? To me, it seems like a wild theory which is very unlikely to work as suggested. The problem, though, is very real.

(And now I read the first half of it, particularly the paragraphs discussing XP.)

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Never had issues with finding an RP party or "grind" party, depending on my mood. I am not disagreeing with the OP, but random critters do not generate RP. Special quests for every class and alignment are also nice, but who's gonna script them all?

Um... Nekhy... that sort of IS the summary...

Yes, Iron, I have had some direct experience of it, though not the exact "golden ratio" that has to be out there somewhere. I spent nine months on on one server adventuring with the same people every day. It didn't matter if you decided to go solo, or not log on at all, for a day or two because they would still be within your level range. We had a pretty tight party going. In stark contrast the average Amia party will almsot never be the same twice because people can potentially reach max level in two days. From what I have seen on other servers and the BioWare boards, 10-20xp is usually seen as a good per kill rate for party in an RP server, while Amia is more like an Action Server's XP gain.



RP quality has nothing directly to do with gaining XP. But the fact Cordor East is populated by level 30s and not level 3s very much makes my point that leveling is too fast/easy. Lower XP means that characters actually adventure together and spend time adventuring together, forging the bonds of war, a shared history. This not only adds depth to existing RP but actually creates a lot more RP than the race to level 30 and start gossiping with other level 30s in Cordor East that we have now.

Ever hear the phrase "variety is the spice of life"? I suspect that a lot of people find "hunting" so boring is because they have killed more Fire Giants, for example, than any sane person would ever want to. Random spawns create variety. Wouldn't it be great to go into the Spires and kill all the Fire Giants and then go in again and find it populated with Barbarians? Even better, wouldn't it be exciting to walk into the Spires and find that there are Barbarians attacking the Fire Giants and you? You can't tell me that something like that wouldn't create more RP.

_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

Less XP? Please, go play on another server and level in 20-30 minutes, and then see if Amia's XP is rediculious.


Want to adventure? Roleplay an adventure, and don't just kill things. We all need to work on that a little, I think.

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Kaylee Diam, Cordorian Spellsword
Schala Wintermoon, Ravenloft escapee, Priestess of Akadi
Constance Silverhand- Quirky elven monk.
[img]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1263/kayleessigcopyeg9.jpg[/img]

As noble as the cause is, you wont change other people because you make it harder for them to level. Tried Arelith a bit and the levelling there is quite slow... and I didn't like it. If you play on a low magic/XP world like Arabel, where you don't expect to level beyond level 5 or so anyway, I don't mind.

I said it several times the past week, but the playerbase on Amia is here because Amia is the way it is. Changing it from ground up does not work without vault purge and reset, and it is not necessary.

I read the whole thing from start to finish, and I can agree. But as one of the people who has a firm hatred for grinding, I hardly stand around Cordor and do melodrama "RP". It isn't the case for everyone, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that fits into this category of people who love to RP, but not just in a giggly-huggy manner, and hate to hunt.

That said, I don't mind adventuring from time to time. My two main characters aren't even max level, and they're deeply involved in a ton of RP, especially Riia. Your idea that lowering xp gain will make the adventuring more enjoyable is...kind of weird, but I know where you're coming from. Truth be told, if Riia were level 28, or level 10, I'd RP her the same way, in her same position, with the same confidence, despite that everyone under her command could destroy her in combat.

I don't think NWN is the best outlet for mob-slaying and general "adventuring" RP. I disagree that it should all be about the monster bashing. An adventure doesn't have to be going out and slaying some epic boss. It can be just as much an adventure to gather your faction and partake in a big plot/event. Some people could view the Cordor Council meetings as an adventure, or they could even just be content with the adventure of recruiting for their faction, getting to know so many different people.

Being part of a faction is an adventure in and of itself, and some people prefer that. Dungeons and Dragons isn't -all- about the mob-killing on a wild adventure. If that were the case, then there wouldn't be so much story invested in various realms' lore.

Well...that's just my two cents. I realize that most probably don't think I'm representing a very large percentage of Amians, but I'll bet it's bigger than it's given credit.

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The fact of the matter is, people who want to level fast will level fast no matter the XP rate. If they out level you now, they probably will with a lower XP rate, and you won't have a chance to catch up because of such low XP.

Also, not everyone wants to roleplay out their basic hunts as grand adventures, because they're not. I'm sure if you look hard enough, though, you can find a small group of players who do.

_________________
Characters:
Yurioji Azzara
Seto

PM me if you need something with them.

This is, indeed, a problem. But what you're doing is what every single other pc does on this server.

"I have a problem. DM's..solve my problem."

This is -not- a problem for the dms to solve. This is a problem for the player base to solve. We don't need to have more quests sent to us as much as we need to MAKE more. I very rarely hunt without some sport of rp involved, because I am not a fan of mindless grinding.

I don't disagree with you, persay, but what you also have to understand is this "RP" you talk about, is also a part of a character's life.

Said character might be traipsing through a dungeon, about to slay some dragon, but I guarandamntee he'll also be looking at the jiggling butt of perfection that happens to be crawling in front of him.

However, this is, in fact, overbalanced. We are starting to look at a 90210 sort of situation, and I, for one, don't see cap'n crunch as being the blonde haired surfer with a mixed past named Tucker.

....Screw tucker, tucker sucks. xD (RIP, Georgie)

Basically, we need a bit more balance in our rp, because though you may hate it, relationships, gossip, things of this nature...ARE a natural part of a character's life, at some point. Some characters might actually have their lives revolve around it. That is the real point of making a character.

It's not up to us what happens to them, but up to them, the personality we create for them. We just say what we think they would say, and see what happens.

In short, this problem is not one for the dms to solve, or script for. If we can't be creative enough to solve it as players, then they shouldn't have to take up our slack. They should be the proud parents with the video cameras out, watching their little flegdling half orc get ready to kill his first goblin, with his newfound friends tagging along to enjoy the kill, and many more to come.

Role playing has evolved, my friend, from that first home-made dungeon board, to he huge world it is at today. You no longer make characters just to traipse through dungeons and move on to the next ones, you make them to live their lives. No matter what this entails.

Not to mention the fact that losing xp per monster is not only going to make lvlling harder, which i don't really mind, but it will decrease the player base, which I most certainly mind.

*south baptist preacher voice* We shall riiiiiise up! sooooolve the problem ourseeelves ah! Bring role playing baaaack to the dungeeeeons ah! LOOK AT THAT JIGGLING NICE TUUUSH AH!

(Thanks for making this post though, I know it probably took way more time than a lot of us would devote to our thoughts. Huzzah!)

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Go ''adventuring'' with some 30 level buddies, so there is no danger of one of you becoming out of range. If you need an incentive to do so, go epic loot hunting in actand, maybe? Seems that would solve your problem better than forcing people to go along with your preference in ''RP''.

Or just make some friends. The pirate crew I started with two friends of mine was a blast, we hunted together all the way to the high epics.

Some people prefer creating stories for their characters and character development, and have the most fun from interacting with others. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

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In Sokar's defence, you have no better evidence of this than Sokar has to support his theory. In fact, I do find it very likely that the way a server is set up changes the way people play. Maybe we could change the game by tweaking the XP rate. You don't know what would happen, I don't know what would happen, Sokar doesn't know what would happen.

However, simple math suggests that the only change would be in the pace, not the content. So you could still catch up if you didn't play for a day, great. But what if you didn't play for three days? Or what if you played every second day, or only every weekend, but your friends played five days a week? What of characters like mine, who only come out every second week? The same problem would still be there. I believe those who would benefit from slowing down the game like this are fairly few and far between. It's not a catch-all solution, and it doesn't change the basic dynamic. It only slows it down, and possibly positively affects a few people. That's my guess, based on logic but little experience.

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Very much agreed with various above posts. There's no problem with Amia, in regard to whatever anyone's preference is for RP. As a Role Play server, rather than an Action server, hunting just isn't going to be the kind of thing that many who just want to RP will come to Amia to find. If it were in the Action section, those people who love to hunt and adventure over everything else would probably leap into Amia and love it forever. However, it is entirely up to the players to define what RP is on Amia, not the Devs or the DMs.

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Personally, almost all of my hunts have usually ended up as adventures. Maybe i've just been lucky. But it wont take a lot of effort to say ''Hey, i wonder whats in that cave over there.'' I've only met a few non-RP hunters.

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Technology, no matter how simple, is magic to all those who do not understand it. ~ Florence Ambrose

I think you made a lot of good points, but to play devil's advocate in your thread, just a tiny bit, Amia has, in my opinion, struck a nice balance, to attract many different kinds of roleplayers. It's not really fair to decide that your definition of roleplay, is somehow better then someone else's. That my friend, is the beautiful thing about roleplay. It's all about imagination, and it has infinite boundaries. I think you have a good, although slightly skewed view as to the what the spirit of Amia is, and are forgetting that it is exactly that. It is the spirit of Amia. Rather then trying to change Amia into what you think it should be, and what you think is wrong with it, decide if you can work yourself in to find a niche in the community, and contribute to the spirit of Amia. If you can't, instead of trying to tell people to go download this module you mentioned, and leave Amia, why don't you try some of the other servers out there that hold more hard core rulesets and xp gain? There's some really great ones, I even play on one. No, I'm not asking you to leave. From your post, it sounds like you're a very intelligent person, and can offer a lot to this server. But telling a mass of players what you think they are doing wrong, and devaluing their definition of roleplay, is not a very appropriate way to go about this.

Again, I think you have some wonderful insight into what a persistent world, and D&D setting could be. But imagination is infinite. Don't rain on other people's parade.

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It might prevent them to be in range, but you can still RP with others char as well.



Exactly, it will be the same anyway.



That.

I agree with most of the replies here, that we dont know what the changes could bring, maybe less poeples playing that dislike the changes, maybe the same, there will always be powerleveler and RP hunter.

I can see that theres won't be much changes but the quote from Kjetta is however very interesting.
-Adding merchant spawning in no-hunt area with a rate og 0,00001% sound very entertaining, lets say that one sell epic loot and reduce the gold of some players. In the idea of reducing Amia's richest Basta** golds. XD

-Also your idea on adding variety to the spawn seems exellent if do-able (got few xp in scripting). I would like to see more answers about this one from Disco or the DMs.

For the giggling and talking about who crewing who, well, it's belong to the players having fun about it, not everyones wish to become a hero in the server. It's a matter of taste and we must tolerate, just don't rp with them.

EDIT: words.

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By Jaydn

The attitude that hunting and RP are two different things is exactly the problem.



That is a reactionary solution to the problem that doesn't solve anything. In fact, it makes matters worse by forcing you to get to level 30 so that you can then go and grind the same areas repeatedly. It's the same "I have to be level 30 before I can RP" that we have now.



I would sooner see the Dev's spend their time making things better for everyone, by adding random spawns and new quests, than nerfing a given spell/skill/item/Class and forcing people to go along with your preference of RP (and I mean that in the general, not personal, sense).



And the difference between you and me is that I believe a character's story and development comes by doing - by playing the role of an adventurer and interacting with other adventurers while on an adventure.

RP doesn't start at level 30.

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"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."

Your logic is still flawed because lvls, just like xp, has no bearing on rp quality or the quality of players. Sorry but there is no mechanical bandage you can add to this server, or any server, that will fix the willingness of players to interact with each other inorder to create indepth RP.

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--Jaqueline Fend---> Red-headed wizzy
--Rhalia Cain---> Red Wizzy
--Rizo'lil---> Waterhavian specialist (not a wizzy)

Increadable.. This man should be elivated to the status of a god. Entirely i agree. Whole i am loath to give up my precious xp he is right.

However if i might make a sugestion. Why not talk with the scripters of prisoners of the mists. They have developed a wonderfull system where you cannot see how much xp you have or even recive from monsters. Rather when you rest you simply get a level becuase your at that point or you dont.

Now i understand that alot of people are going to say "but how will we know if we are fighting something to easy for us to kill or not?" my simple reasponce to that is. "Did you kill is easy or not?" If so maby you should move on. If not then maby you should keep trying or do somehting which you have less difficulty with.

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Corporal Toman Arnder, Watcher of Helm - To Protect
Nadia Harrow, Priestess of Waukeen - Faith will overcome
Alexis Dimonds, Priestess of Ilmater - Sacrifice for others

PoTM is also a CEP module with a huge amount of haks and a larger server that allows for that kind of scripting. I'm not sure if Amia has that kind of capability.

I actually agree with Jaqueline - My levels, in the past, have mostly just excluded me from huge events. My guard is level 30, -has- to stand around Cordor, but I get plenty of RP. Even back when she was level 5, I was still getting plenty.


While I agree people tend to focus far too much on babymaking and marriage, that's not the main focus of the entire server. From my experience, it's actually a very select few groups.

Hunting is tedious, it's boring, etc. Yes, I agree with that. I like knowing how much XP I'm getting because I am one of those people who just wants to get it over with. I don't believe RP starts at 30, but god do I want to get close so I can stop hunting. However, most of the time, I RP as I hunt. Unless I just want to get it over with or I'm soloing.

Change is good, but this subject seems to come up every couple of months with the eventual decision that RP should be left to the discretion of the players, adventuring is in the mind of whoever is doing it, and it makes no sense to force more changes because the basic things are 'boring.'


The real 'adventuring' comes from the DMs, doesn't it? Isn't that how it works in PnP? The DMs control the adventure and what's going on, throwing monsters and event changes at you. It works the same way here. I mean, look at the forums. The Black Caravan, The Forstakkr Plots, the Cordor Corruption. There's plenty to get involved in if you try, outside of hunting. There is adventure in the DnD sense, I think.

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Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu

There is no "problem". People know that you can RP and hunt at the same time, which would be termed adventuring by your own admission. There is only a difference if you want there to be a difference. It doesn't change the fact that some people prefer to be diplomtic and help fight wars against other groups, or try to find out what's behind the masquerade of a corrupt government. It's all adventuring, just by the definitions of different people.

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Run Forest, RUN!

I full heartedly agree with Sokar. I've been having the feeling of writing something to this effect myself and I most say Sokar has worded it more finely then I would have (Infact mine version would probably get me banned, I never could resist a personal stab in such things).

The RP indeed seems to only revolve around towns, cyber, weather, breeding, and rare fraction conflicts.

I really like the comment about the litch lyrics, I myself playing a nearly pure bard character have ofcourse undertaken that quest and it only took me 15min solo with lv9 to get it. Hunting is dreadfully easy even for a bard who should actually be the idiot singing songs and staying in the back for fear of getting beaten to a horrid pulp.

I would be very much in favour of some random quest generator if that is possible within nwn.

Personally just to name it my top three annoying forms of roleplay:
-dating, cyber (or as close as they dare play it)
-characters that are a bit of everything (25%elf 25%dragon 25% demon.. you get the idea. make up your mind)
-people who don't get the concept of cultural perspectives (no you're evil everything you do should be unholy, not holy. Dwarves that don't have any sense of poking fun at elves, elves that are as friendly as freehuggers no sense of arrogance.)

lol, oh hell yeah, i hope people tell me in PMs rather than spam it up on the thread that 'amia is unlike MMOs'

cuz god, it is, only difference is the rp

*runs and breaks free from his leg braces!*

Momma always said, "life is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're gonna get next."

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HOLY GOD DAMN, I LOVE YOU MAN, I LOVE YOUR STATS, THEY ARE MY SIG NOW!

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I'm skeptical about how module changes and dev-work would be suitable fix to what appears to be a problem with having a negative attitude and outlook.

It's impossible to expect everyone to have fun in the same way, it's unreasonable to be critical of others if they don't ascribe to your model of the ideal player.

I would be impressed if you managed to reach level 30 in 'two days' while stopping to type anything out other than "//Who's loot?". With the current XP gain, You can pace your leveling as fast as you like, and it isn't tedious at all if you have good company.

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Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)

I think this thread could do less as a bitch about other people's RP and PC's and be more constructive.

But. Um.

Changing xp wont fix it. - been done, the xp system on amia specifically favors max party sized groups.

Adding Rp zones won't fix it. - been done, they were removed due to lack of use.

its not a dev problem, its a player problem.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Well then, Dr. Dwagin, how would you address this 'player problem'?

I wouldn't call them RP zones, but rather like adventuring zones where players can get away from the 25%drow 25%dragon 25%demon and 25%human group of people. More of your dungeon crawling stuff.

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Well not so much a player 'problem' as it would mean they are doing something wrong. Its free will, and acceptance of that. People will be how people will be.

People can rp however they want on amia within the rules. If that means being a half-dragon-elf-tiefling so be it.

Its not our right to question or belittle how they play.

Its not our right to tell them how to play or what to do, or how to do it.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Rather than make rash generalizations about the player base at large, it would be more productive instead to recognize the specific instances with individual players that bother you and resolve them case by case. If you have a problem with something a player does, it's possible to either address them directly and obtain a resolution, change your perception and manage to act civilly and maturely towards your fellow player, or move on and cease interacting.

There are 130 player slots over two servers worth of areas. Much of them will be empty. If there wasn't enough space to "Get away" to, adding more won't be appreciated.

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Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)

You are so delightfully charming. If you feel this way, feel free to naff off back to where you came from.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

This^. The ''grinding'' problem is exacerbated by human nature. We are designed to maximise 'most reward from minimium effort'. There is only so many times you will come up with a ''RP'' reason to quest in say the bug bear caves or the brigands or the burning crypt when easier areas exist.

As a result a huge chunk of the server is never visited (except by masochists and true explorers)and the rest just spam the FGK . More equality between the xp from areas would really improve amia.

PS And lower the XP

Mr T

another "the people who need this the most will either never read it, or ignore everything it says anyway" post.

well thought out though, nice job.

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"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling

While I don't agree with everything Sokar Rostau said in his post. I will agree that the general sentiment is correct. But, one of the most beautiful things about Amia is it's ability to conform to what a large variety of players want out of a server. If you hate "hunting" or "grinding" but enjoy sitting back and flexing your brain muscles and getting cramps in your fingers from typing up mile-long blocks of text describing every nuance that your character does, you can... and if you wish it, you can burn your DC's and get to level 30 without ever having to even lift a sword or cast a spell. If you're the type that wants to point and click until your mouse breaks in an attempt to slaughter every single monster spawn in the module while your keyboard collects dust, you can do that, too. Making a change to the module's general make-up (XP, etc.) has to be carefully weighted to keep both sides of the player-base happy and well treated.

I'm sure that in the several hundred people that play on Amia, there are those that share almost identical views of how things should be done. Just keep looking for them and when you find them, you guys will be able to have epic adventures until your arms fall off.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

*yawn* Seriously.. so much text at this late hour.. Eh.. What the hell.. *shrug*


The XP rate: Amia is quite low, no matterw aht people say, its not action server even 'cause there you get 200 - 500 per kill, which is almost 10 times as much as Amia offers.

I often had a blast hunting with people, but sometimes you just want to hunt quietly and get to the next level. People can do that here no matter what.

I was on another server where the Xp rate was high, it was an Rp server, people could get to level 40 very easily and most started Rping then. I think that server only has 3 - 6 people at best times. Go them, the way amia is is it very good In my opinion.

To the race thingie (25% of this and that and what else) I've seen worse on a more freeform roleply game, angel demon robot half god were not to uncommon. And people didn't liked those, so they didn't Rp with them. Just do the same thing here *sigh* I mean, if they get off that then let them have their fun by being just like that. There are more sensible Rpers out there. The only thing so far that came close to this what you described though were either half elves, elven tieflings, or Dragon kin. (And sort of my character who is just blatently lying about that stuff to mess with peoples heads)

Overall, tl;dr and if you want more Rp just create it, start conflicts, get people to adventure out ( I did, I grabbed several level 7 characters and ventured to Darkhold and let them fight the dragon there and they won! Yes, there as nil xp reward whatsoever but it was great for them)
I am quite sure many of the lowbies seek more reason to go out hunting than just for the Xp, but if there is no particular reason for them in the module do players need to fill this niche and provide it.
Offer to Pay 5000 Gold if they bring you the head of the Orc Chosen, 50,000 for the fire giant belt, 50,000 for the yuan ti bikini. 25,000 for Ankh rhemuns ring.

Most monsters drop something unique that may not be useful to everyone, aka can't be sold or is not strong enough, but can be seen as a quest reward of some sort. Make them give it to you and pay them for it. There, you just got Rp and they got involved in a story.

To the DM's, perhaps we need a few more special monsters at the end of dungeons that will drop unsellable loot that people can turn in for such things.

But seriously, all the family and maternal Rp happens mostly because there is not much else to do. So you got to level 30/29/28, now hunting won't give you anything anymore, all you can do for some reward is RP with people, unless they are out hunting that is.

And with that I sign off to get some sleep.

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"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong."
"I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."

While I only read the top portion of this post, I have to say that this server needs more people like you.

Been harping on about this for ages. The moment you ask people to get serious about their RP (with serious meaning still having fun, but not goofing off doing whatever random thing enters your head) you're labelled, derided, ignored and laughed at.

So I gave up and decided to visit Amia just when I need a break from LOTRO and all of its epic epicness (which still amounts to doing errands and fighting battles with fancy storylines). If someone wants to RP, then I'll happily go along with it, but I'm not going to start something deep and meaningful if I'm going to be missing nine out of ten of the things I need.

Not that I actually have a list of ten things for a successful long-term RP, but maybe that would be worth checking into.

One of the things I think would be cool is if there was another mechanic at work while you're out hunting besides the obvious 'more XP' one. Strictly for example, LOTRO has a system where exploring certain places and killing certain things will grant you virtues, which improve certain aspects of your character. This reduces the pressure to level in some ways because your character can improve before they get to their new level. It also acts as an incentive to gain levels because some things are unlocked as you gain more levels.

I'm not saying this could simply be yoinked and added to Amia, nor that you should simply take my word for it, but character advancement by levelling alone means that people will tend to level. Character advancement that involves going on adventures and exploring the island will tend to help you get your level as a side-effect, rather than as the singular goal.

And adventures are fun. I know, 'cause I just whipped through Book 2 tonight with a couple of decent players who are now assuredly on my friend list. That was an epic four hours, even if it did take an hour and a half just to find people to do eet already. I'm not saying it won't be a bit familiar the next time around (different character) but if there's a few decent players who are playing for fun and not just because they're already planning what they'll do in Book 12, then it'll probably be fun nonetheless.

*reads topic*

Oh. Okay. This again.

*Agrees with Robert*



More people that sit on the forums composing books to complain instead of creating RP, people that bitch about the XP being too high, too low, too hard, too easy, too many DCs, not enough DCs, I didn't get them, you only give them to friend,s the magic levels is too high, too low, I can't reach the shops, there's too many events, there's not enough there's too many DMs, too few DMs, not enough DMs that pay attention to me.

Yes. Of course. We desperately need more oft hose people.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I could post something very long here, but instead, I'll say this;


Everyone is here to have fun and enjoy the game. Everyone is free to enjoy the game however they see fit, unless it is in violation of the rules.

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Mostly Retired

The problem with doing DND style questing, is that is designed for a single party of PCs with one DM, where the whole world is theirs alone to adventure in. Doing repeatable questing in that fashion isn't actually going to solve the problem in my opinion because, even if you managed to pull off that amount and degree of scripting, it still wouldn't make sense in terms of the world.

In other words, no one really goes out "questing". A quest is something special that happens once in a while for a specific purpose to a particular would-be hero or group of heroes. A hero is a hero because of that specialness, not because of a career choice like "adventurer".

To make hunting make actually sense, that is, to give it a reason for being in the world that is something that people would actually regularly engage in, there's other things you could do, which I'll list off below:

1- HUNTING AS HUNTING
"Hunting", in reality, does not consist of randomly slaying every wild beast you come across. It consists of planning, tracking, and strategizing to take down one or a one small group of creatures for a specific purpose. Instead of big spawns popping out everywhere, re-design some areas (perhaps to be maze-like) so that one major spawn (or smallish group) has a chance to randomly be in a particular spot, and the party can use different skills to track them down, with most of the obstacles in doing so coming perhaps in the form of natural hazards, puzzles, or traps, until they get to the "hunt" which is basically a boss fight. Different hunts would grant different resources which could be used in the job system coming up now and maybe hunter's guilds would form to corner the market on a resource trade.

2- WARZONES
For those who do want to randomly slay everything they see, at least give it some story background. Have certain areas of the server be contested between two NPC groups, and the PC could sign up as a mercenary for one side, and head out to the field to do battle. How many he kills could be kept track of, and he could earn rank with higher rank giving him more GP for kills. Eventually, the DMs could decide one side wins, maybe based partly on the actions of the PCs and a war could spring up somewhere else. PCs could form little mercenary companies which would have steady work, in addition to any DM driven plots.

3- GUARD DUTY
There's not many "quests" you could repeat and make sense. Why do you need to keep killing the orc chief for instance? However, merchants always need guards to watch their caravans. Why not have certain trade routes that a PC party can sign up to follow an NPC through and protect them? If they succeed, they get some money. Or, you could have a town require some extra help guarding something, say a jail or maybe a noble's house, and there could randomly timed chance of a breakout or assassination attempt. It'd still be scripted "quests" but they'd make sense, and it wouldn't be constant fighting, but fighting when something happened and for a reason.

Not sure how implementable these are, but they'd give PCs the tools to gain XP without OOC "hunting" or needing DM-driven plots and they make sense to be persistent and repeating. In all of these, too, there'd be plenty of time for RPing during the adventure, without constant combat, but of course, there still would be combat and it's unpredictability and/or purpose would be exciting. You'd also basically have to have a group to do most of these, and they'd all encourage players to stick together to make groups to do the different kinds of jobs one could do to get XP I'd think.

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Former characters:
Dawnbringer Goodmane
Gralg Elfbane
Ukre Cobcruncher
Ug Rhalac

That said, nobody said you can't add to the number of ways you can have fun. Within reason, of course.

As a player who has a character in the party list all the time and "grind"* non stop, I have to agree with most of your points except the logic that less XP means more RP. I would also like to seek some ideas on how to add more flavor to hunting.

* 10% Adventures (IC purpose for the adventure and great dialogues and reactions to things we see/experience), 30% Hunts (IC mindless chatter and debates while killing), 60% Grinds (Silence with the occasional 'I need rest," and 'Resupply,' lines here and there).



I usually hate partying with these people too, a number of them often have a very elitist attitude and would only "RP" in town with their friends. But when we're starting the hunt their characters shut up and they go into the party chat. It's irritating to see them "RP" so colorfully in town and then not utter a syllable to their grinding party.

Anyways that's the end of my rant and first half of my post.


Lessening XP would have a reverse effect I would assume to what you're expecting. I mean after killing the kobolds, orcs, trog, blood moon orcs, spiders, etc.. so many times there's just no IC purpose to loop back and kill them again. It really breaks the immersion/experience.

I doubt it's even possible to reach Level 30 in Amia with just hunting only once on an area. Is it? It breaks the fantasy of an adventure when your group has already a box full of Firegiant king belt and without even a purpose there in the first place except to just plunder.



I truly wish that there'd be more of an effort put in to adding _more_ quests in Amia. Every town, every tavern, every city hall. Quests everywhere.

I wish to experience killing the dragon in Darkhold just to win a bet I had with a guy in the Nomad proving it is not impossible. But as you walk your way out of the Darkhold, you find a curious hole that you follow finding Wharftown. You chat with the mayor, Priestess of Sune, a distraught captain, and a child...

The Mayor hires you to assassinate the bandit leader raiding the road leading to the low lands delta, the Priestess asks you to retrieve a staff of great power (for Good only) from an undead lich in a tomb (Evil players could get a similar quest from Tarkuul), and the captain asking your help to help retrieve his cart of food and water from the blood moon orcs.

And the child pleads to you to escort him to Wyrmhold because he left his sister there... after getting there, you find out it wasn't really a child but a hin trying to mug your party. Do your party torture and kill the bastard or let him go after teaching it a lesson while fight the banite in your group who wishes to kill the hin.

More quests!