AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Rule change

There is a difference between cybering and IC sex.

The difference is that IC, it makes no difference if you fade to black, where as cyber is clearly for the sake of what it is.

As for torture...

It's hard to enforce. It's, for some reason I can't understand, a popular character hook. Drannok has come across... I can't count the torture sob stories. I started to ignore most of them.

Oh, and this rule change is going to cause rivers of tears and flames.

After reading the same arguments repeated continuously, I decided to repeat one myself:
If you don't like the rule, use MSN or something similar. Then your characters can enjoy / be torn apart however they (you) like.

for torturing, would *chops his arm off* be considered it? (with consent of the players)

Personally, I think if two people consent and want to do something, then no one should be stopping them. If that's what they want to do with their time and characters then that's ok. The last system seemed to work fine in my opinion? People stuck to tells, so nothing is public. That way the people wanting to do this get to do it, and everyone else doesn't have to see it.

But if that's the rule, then that's the rule.

Tormak said:

Quote:

When I can see a coherently written arguement about why allowing people to cyber on the server so they can masturbate without feeling bad that it's probably another man at the end of the line, and why allowing this miraculously gives a huge improvement to the quality of the server, then maybe I'll reconsider. Because by and large, the crowd you will attract by making cybering allowable on the server, is not a crowd you want to deal with.

I'll have you know I actually had no stake in this arguement on the DM forums for or against. My push was simply for a clarified universal rule. After all, if we allowed cybering, why should we force the players into circumstances where they can't discern if the rule is in palce or not? Our rule was "you can cyer if conditions X Y Z and A-3 are met." But Conditions Z and X weren't able to be seen by the players, so they never knew if they could cyber, which means people were getting in trouble.

I don't think allowing cybering is improving the server's quality. However, I DO think that banning it altogether is a bad move. It's just another little bit of freedom you take from the players.

The rule "you can cyer if conditions X Y Z and A-3 are met." was a simple rule. Cybering was allowed to take place between two consenting adults. You're not forcing the players into circumstances where they cant discern the rule - the players are actively putting themselves in that position. They know what they are doing at the time.

My point is, it was the player's choice. If they and the other person wanted to do it, they can make the choice. If you don't want to do that, then you don't.

Like I said before, if that's the rule, then that's the rule. That's cool, and I'm not complaining about it. I'm just giving my opinion on this.

Moridan_X wrote:

for torturing, would *chops his arm off* be considered it? (with consent of the players)

I think that sort of non-descriptive stuff has always been acceptable. There's a big difference between:
*Eviscerates her*
and
*Slides the knife across her stomach, the thin line of blood expanding as he suddenly plunges the dagger in further, tearing open the wound so that her intestines start to unravel from her body and fall to the floor*

I didn't make it too graphic, but you get the point.

Edit:

Marauth wrote:

Personally, I think if two people consent and want to do something, then no one should be stopping them. If that's what they want to do with their time and characters then that's ok. The last system seemed to work fine in my opinion? People stuck to tells, so nothing is public. That way the people wanting to do this get to do it, and everyone else doesn't have to see it.

Personally that's my point of view, but since it is a rule, it's a rule to b obeyed. If you want to do it, find alternate means, if not,then this doesn't affect you at all.

I think that is most people's views.

Problem is proving someone is a consenting adult.

I'd wager this is the reason the staff decided to just outlaw it totally.

I expected it to be completely outlawed many many months ago.

Nekhy wrote:

Alright enough with this poop you two, Slig and Tormak. Next argument post gets a ban.

I don't believe myself or Tormak have broken any rules by posting what we have thus far, so I can't help but find this duress you place upon both of us to not only be entirely unwarranted and unjust, but also a poor show of both your personal character and the attitude of the DM team.

Yups, but I care more about keeping the topic a flame-free zone for people to ask questions instead of a sandbox for you two to continue the same fight you seem to be having in every topic, than your personal opinion on my character or the attitudes of the DM team, I'm afraid.

You are welcome to continue on MSN or some other IM, of course.

Nekhy wrote:

You are welcome to continue on MSN or some other IM, of course.

With you?

Speaking of which, what about suggestive roleplay? is it bannable to hint and suggest that you want to 'continue on MSN or some other IM'?

No, not with me.

And people are welcome to take their cybering to MSN, but unwelcome advancements on other players on Amia will not be tolerated, just like we don't tolerate any sexual harassment. So you're taking a risk if you suggest continuing on IMs to people you don't know. That does bring a question, how does one suggest continuing on MSN in roleplay, anyway? That'd be an OOC suggestion.

just a quick clarification nekhy, none of the torture I have been doing as my drow characters is banned right? I never went into tells with torture as my drow. my philosophy on torture is this: victim sets the tolerance level. I myself can handle quite alot, so I let the person I am torturing set the level and I deceress the amount of graphicness if it ever becomes too much or stop all together((never had that happen but still I let them know)).

With this new rule, I am allowed to still do what I have been doing with my drow when I torture people right?

If it's been done on public channels so far, and is appropriate for the public channels, then you don't need to change anything.

That'll put a steep decline in the lesbian ranks.

The lesbian Jedis are gonna feel this one!

My take on this (speaking especially as a same-sex attracted player). I've never been too bothered by the sex thing in tell channel, although, I find that the mesbians (well, the less mature ones anyway) seem to move character relationships from first to last base almost immediately. Its clear to me that they're in it for sex, rather than an IC relationship (with all those other relationship thingies like emotion, love, romance, solidarity in the face of adversity, tragic love King Arthur style, etc).

I have tried to get my characters romantically involved in the past and each time, the other player doesn't seem to 'get it' because they're trying an OOC approach (cybering) rather than an IC approach (romantic RP).
I have always hoped that there could be more players who see the difference between the two forms. So as long as the rule applies to the former and not the later, I'm all for it. I've had some pretty intense guys approach me with their overly femme straight girl characters (well they act straight to me because they seem to act like straight girls gone queer) and don't handle rejection well (IC and OOC). If we make it harder for people to cyber, I guess I'll get less of these types hassling me.

If the rule doesn't prevent IC relationships and romantic RP to develop, I'd be 100% for it. I'm sure the DMs will be wise enough to know and understand the difference. If the IC relationship is that intense that people want to take it over to kinky kingdom or msn, good on 'em. I'm not against that, what people do behind closed doors it their business.

As for torture, I'm 100% backing the ruling. Keeping it brief and non-descriptive is fine. Going into gory details (or sometimes even humorous take on it) is still not good. Pulling out intestines and strangling people with it, whilst humorous, would still cross the line if the description wasn't very brief.

Slig wrote:

but also a poor show of both your personal character and the attitude of the DM team.

Slig? Again, you don't know my attitude. We've been around this once before. Don't shoot down the entire team on your one-man march. It is sensationalist. Have all your ducks in a row (meaning, know all of our individual opinions without assumption) before making those sweeping statements.

And I will repeat what's already been stated in this thread. Nothing that has been stated by anyone so far in this thread is original. Every viewpoint was represented by the brutal rough & tumble the DM team went through in the fight over this rule.

And frankly, I would prefer to see a relaxation on the torture myself. I am one of those weird crackpots that enjoys excessive gore. I kind of want to see PCs playing with the intestines of other PCs and making art out of body fluids. But I'm in so small a minority, I don't even bother fighting. :wink:

As a member of the DM team you're an official representative of the server and have a responsibility to act in a becoming fashion or risk defaming not only yourself, but the entire server. There's no escaping that role simply by the fact that you're an individual; if you're part of the team, you should act like part of the team.

Slig wrote:

As a member of the DM team you're an official representative of the server and have a responsibility to act in a becoming fashion or risk defaming not only yourself, but the entire server. There's no escaping that role simply by the fact that you're an individual; if you're part of the team, you should act like part of the team.

Considering after this decision Amia hasen't been re-split into A, B, and CYBORZ..I'm fairly sure they all have the team mentality thing down pat, hoss.

Slig wrote:

As a member of the DM team you're an official representative of the server and have a responsibility to act in a becoming fashion or risk defaming not only yourself, but the entire server. There's no escaping that role simply by the fact that you're an individual; if you're part of the team, you should act like part of the team.

I haven't even acted at all, Slig. That was the very first post I've made in this entire thread. For all you know, I might have disapproved of this rule change and been entirely steamrolled.

Nor was I the one who earned that comment from you. Nekh single-handedly discouraged you and Tormak from going at it. As far as I'm concerned, you can wring each others' necks for everyone's entertainment. I've never made it a secret that I'm not a net nanny and I don't like anyone trying to be one, or trying to prevent flaming. Yet Nekh's action is a reflection upon me personally, since I am a part of the DM team?

Maybe upon me professionally. But not upon me personally, since you made it personal. I do appreciate whatever respect I've managed to earn from you (maybe just that I'm a straight talker without being insulting), but your relentlessness in trashing anything that comes from a DM merely because a DM is attached to it and because you've had bad experiences in the past with DMs on other servers (and this server, to be fair) is hollow and reactionary. It is also very discouraging when I think I'm doing a good job, and you say, "no, you're not doing a good job" because of something another DM says in a thread I hadn't even posted in.

And we do not have a united team mentality, or anything remotely resembling a hive mind. We have a willingness to work with each other, and the kind of maturity that is necessary to make unanimous decisions despite our reservations and disagreements that are on a utilitarian scale the best decisions for the server, but we think differently enough that we are allowed to be regarded differently personally, even if you won't grant us individuality professionally.

Yossarin wrote:

And frankly, I would prefer to see a relaxation on the torture myself. I am one of those weird crackpots that enjoys excessive gore. I kind of want to see PCs playing with the intestines of other PCs and making art out of body fluids. But I'm in so small a minority, I don't even bother fighting. :wink:

Eww. Intestine art... gross. I'm totally a fan of banning Yoss from ever using his skill with words in reference to cannibalism and torture. Eww.

A majority of the DM team decided that Amia would be a better place if cybering was banned entirely. That decision, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, is how it's going to be. Personally, I don't think anything is really going to change. Formerly we allowed cybering in tells, but had a "cybering is bad" mentality. Now there's less confusion because we've set a rule that can be clearly pointed to. Will that stop people from tickling each others tonsils? Of course not, but it makes it easier to punish when we catch it.

As for the torture bit...

Whoever said that religious sacrifice RP is going to become a total snooze fest was right on the money. The only thing that kept me awake through most drow ceremonies was the terribly amusing b movie horror scenes other players acted out. It's a little ridiculous to be surrounded by horrible instruments of misery and suffering, but when time comes to use them everyone just blinks for a really long time and the scene's over.

jameslocke wrote:

As for the torture bit...

Whoever said that religious sacrifice RP is going to become a total snooze fest was right on the money. The only thing that kept me awake through most drow ceremonies was the terribly amusing b movie horror scenes other players acted out. It's a little ridiculous to be surrounded by horrible instruments of misery and suffering, but when time comes to use them everyone just blinks for a really long time and the scene's over.

If you didn't do it in tell, you can still do it, right? I didn't think we lowered the goreness of Amia.

I remember watching scenes where pregnant drow priestesses were cutting out little wiggly blobs of unborn baby from their wombs and stabbing them in tribute to Lolth. I mean, what the fuck? While not technically torture, that happened right over the talk channel.

well james, maybecause the charachter thought killing off one of their infants from their own womb would be a good gift to lolth. I myself when i did it as mayae, tried to avoid going into too much detial, but yes I did that in the past.

But as long as what ever was allowed before in the talk channels is allowed now, I don't care.

Last edited by TormakSaber on Mon, Feb 16 2009, 5:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

OH darn, we've ruined the Drow because they can't pretend to be actors in a B movie.

:roll:

I expected better from you, James.

EDIT: Okay, I suppose this is worth explaining a bit. Jame,s, you were and generally are regarded as one of the forefronts of Ultrinnan RP with Vesz'fein. Your plots, your roleplay, all of these things, they worked out perfectly fine and brought life and activity to the city, and not one of them relied on the shock value of gore.

Why does the sacrifice NEED to be roleplayed out gorily, blah blah cut open the woman rip out her heart, take a bite and spit the blood on her face etc etc etc. I think you're overstating the worth of the gore here. In my defense, I've seen plenty of sacrifices, and well honestly I think most all of them are boring, the gory ones and the "non gory" ones. I think there's so much emphasis on the gore sometimes that the reason for the sacrifice and the RP in general is forgotten.

Hey, my ideal RP is heavily inspired by B-movies too. Something like LoTR re-made by Tarrantino.

jameslocke wrote:

I remember watching scenes where pregnant drow priestesses were cutting out little wiggly blobs of unborn baby from their wombs and stabbing them in tribute to Lolth. I mean, what the (censored)? While not technically torture, that happened right over the talk channel.

holy jesus god! are you fuckin' serious!?

christ that is screwed up.

Yep. I was there when it happened!

jameslocke wrote:

I remember watching scenes where pregnant drow priestesses were cutting out little wiggly blobs of unborn baby from their wombs and stabbing them in tribute to Lolth. I mean, what the (censored)? While not technically torture, that happened right over the talk channel.

*ring ring* "I think its time to call up the Wolf, he'll know how to deal with this mess"

Drow are not known for being sane, they are are evil, they sac babies, including their own. The drow rituals, I hosted quite a few as mayae, were some of the best moments of my rp as a yath member I have. They are fun. Drow down below, are evil, they do things that most people would send them to a see a doctor for becuase they would be messed up, but the rp I enjoy. I really doubt any of the drow players think the way their char does IRL, I sure don't I play it as an escape. I enjoy the evil rp of the drow.

TormakSaber wrote:

Why does the sacrifice NEED to be roleplayed out gorily, blah blah cut open the woman rip out her heart, take a bite and spit the blood on her face etc etc etc. I think you're overstating the worth of the gore here. In my defense, I've seen plenty of sacrifices, and well honestly I think most all of them are boring, the gory ones and the "non gory" ones. I think there's so much emphasis on the gore sometimes that the reason for the sacrifice and the RP in general is forgotten.

I'm one of the drow players who adds gore to their rp. I actually think it is enjoyable and entertaining to watch, sort of like I -love- horror movies and ultra-violence. Most people around me have thought that it has been a good addition to my rp, and if they haven't, I have refrained from using graphic details.

There is rp that I don't enjoy as well (which is not borderline against the rules in any way), but I am not about to spell that out to all the other players like you do over and over again...

[/rant]

It is nice to have a simple clear rule that eveyryone can read and understand. But still then find ways to nit pick at it *sighs*

Such is human nature I fear.

I like a lot of depth in the role play I'm a part of, and that's heavily based on context. An important element of drow culture is being surrounded fear, torture, subjugation and death. PCs have to overcome their environments to avoid the gruesome fates of those around them. That mentality is difficult to conjure and respond to when everything you see around you is two dimensional.

If I'm standing near a priestess who's slashing maniacally at an elf with a serrated knife, I want to express my character's muted interest in physiology and complain internally about the bother of removing the blood stains from his newly tailored suit. That's much easier to do when the crazy drow bitch is unleashing a detailed narrative about the fragile nature of the endocrine system, punctuated entirely by vicious stab wounds.

Some people prefer to argue and test something that's lain before them.

I think honestly it'll prove to make things more interesting for certain things.. funny thing my Banite's not yet had to make a Sacrifice so when she does I'll need to bear the Rule confirmation in mind. (though it shouldn't be too hard)

Tormak wrote:

I think there's so much emphasis on the gore sometimes that the reason for the sacrifice and the RP in general is forgotten.

So very much emphasis on this.

A lot of good rp'ers play drow. I say this, because it is true, despite the fact that I personally, HATE drow as a pc race. I think they are an excellent npc villian...but not so great as pc villians.

Yet, despite this, I have been forced to wonder on occassion if a lot of drow players remember the motivation behind the actions of drow. They don't do evil things for the sake of doing evil things. It's all about power. They aren't gonna kill their babies, just because they wonder if unborn babies have a different colour blood. They're going to do it because they think Lloth will be happy if they do, and favor them, granting them more power than their enemies, or at the very least, staying in her good graces so that their enemies don't gain power over them.

And yet the saccy's i've seen, and those I've heard about, honestly were dull and boring, and not something I'd have rewarded a DC for. It really does often feel like it's "evil for evil's sake" - like these things are being done, not with a specific goal in mind, but because the players THINK it's what they have to do, to be evil. I've made that mistake myself, it's an easy one to fall into. It too often does feel like the gore has too much emphasis placed on it, and the rp outside of the gore and torture is a token "Oh yeah, and Lloth, if yer watching, hope you liked this."

All that being said, PLEASE don't read this as "All drow suck, and all players of drow are lousy rp'ers". That's not what it says, and I'm not the type to hide subtle jabs in clever wording. If I wanted to say that, well, I'm pretty sure some of you at leats, know full well that's what I'd say.

I'm saying that focus tends to be directed in the wrong place. And not just for torture/saccies/murder. Romance rp, need not have detailed sex scenes, to be great rp. A relationship need not immediately produce a child, in order to be good rp. Evil need not be psychotically murderous and fond of blood, to be good rp. Drow need not be evil for the sake of being evil, for it to be good rp. Paladins need not be polite, to be good rp. Clerics need not spend all day, every day, preaching the good word, to be good rp.

Depth, purpose, and feeling, are what is needed, for good rp.

DO we really need to have english classes and teach people who to emote scene's without needing to use graphic wording....please.

It is quite possible to describe a scene going on even if it is violent in the extreme without breaking the rules. It is all about the inflection of the words that you use.

Obey the rules as they are laid down, you can still have your torture scene's just learn to be a bit more, descriptive with the language.

rules are lame

Again, if it was kosher on the talk channel before, no need to change it. The 1-on-1 torture sessions in tells don't fly, however.

Khaunwalksthisearth wrote:

rules are lame

The server rules are there to keep everyones experience more enjoyable. I am not a shining upholder of 'the law' But we are guests on the server remember, so play nice.

What shes trying to say is, you can do:

::shatters his hand with a large rock::

But you can't do:

::Drops a large rock, which shatter his hand. The bone shards... blah blah blah gory gory gory I read too many horror stories::

Last edited by Uberuce on Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:37 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Don't mix liquids and solids, is my rule of thumb.

Lashing of blood on its own is fine; just as well, since I've got a PLC wand that spells out VA in blood in ten foot letters.

Removing limbs and organs is fine too, if they're dry. Obviously they won't be, but just don't mention the gooey bits. If the other chap or chappess wants to imagine the splatter, they can; if they'd rather not, you aren't forcing the issue.

A little off topic remark: When people start telling gory stories I just imitate the sound of a dentist's drill and ask them when their next appointment is. Amazing how quickly they shut up. The gorier the story, the sissier the storyteller, as far as my experiences go.

No questions, no noticeable difference, never invited to something so graphic it couldn't be done on the public channel.

As stated before i think i was a fluffy creature in a past life and Frey's rp of the little undead girl tilting her head to the side as black ooze pours out is about all my stomach can take...and that was public channel. (and i love his overall rp I just 'instantly loose my desire to eat food' at times

He's probably thinking to himself "mission accomplished".

I think Amia is gory enough as is, the rule isn't super strict it just stops the tells.

...which makes me wonder who else was reading them *wink wink* *cough* tell catching invis npc script systems do exist *cough cough*
..then again perhaps it was a screen-shoted incident *shrugs*

Oh and for future reference, slig...if you want to change something, expressing your anger over the rule change by insulting others (especially when its not deserved) does not accomplish anything, it has the opposite effect.

It's like when people get mad and decide to yell and insult eachother instead of talk the issue out with logical, not emotional, points...all the therapists do is play referee and put a cap on the insults...and Tah-dah! some progress.

*forsees the future and blocks a counter point* Yes you can logically talk about why you feel a certain way, not all emotions are illogical they usually have things that cause them even if you don't necessarily know what they are.

I have watched drow sacrifice and interrogate people quite a bit since I became a DM (a guilty pleasure), but I have to say that the drow playerbase's own issues with the subject of gore and/or their consternation over maybe possibly offending one another OOC'ly in some obscure way thanks to thin-skinned complainers has contributed to neutering the experience.

The other culprit is, quite frankly, a lack of genuine creativity. Of cleverness.

More often than not, I am bored watching drow sacrifices or drow interrogations. It feels as though I am watching something that should be more than it is. Like watching a slasher flick, but cutting out all the best parts, and just leaving in that mild terror of the chase without the kill. An experience with dampeners. Sex after abusing painkillers, when you're numb and tired and you're kinda going through the motions, but you don't feel anything.

For a while there, it got bad enough that I felt like it was becoming a wash/rinse/repeat cycle. The same tired, boring old "Lolth tlu malla" thrown out, or whatever. Some variation on being tied and stabbed with a ritual dagger. Blah blah blah, half-baked invocations, etc.

I saw some people try to spice things up with gore RP. But you know what? It still falls flat when there is no creativity, no cleverness behind that gory RP. No deep and considerate thought applied to the ceremony of the sacrifice.

IMO, each sacrifice should be a special thing, and should be treated just as specially by the players as it is supposed to be for the characters. Do some work. Push your mind to new horizons. Devise new methods of sacrifice or torment. Or just put interesting spins on the same old ceremonies.

Gore RP is fine and dandy, but my ultimate desire is an entirely elitist one: I do not want gore for gore's sake. I enjoy a bit of viscera in my cheerios, but I want it on my terms. That being, with some strong elements of theme. I want to be able to trace a line between the method and the gore of the sacrifice and a central idea that may or may not have anything to do with the sacrifice at all. I want to be intellectually stimulated. If you want me to be interested when you're bashing that sun elf's brains out with the bottom of a silver goblet, you're going to have to do it in such a way that it gets my own gray matter drunk on the swiche lichor of your own creative and intelligent imagination. Whether you do this because the ritual of the sacrifice revolves around the notion of the sun elf wizard who valued his intelligence, his mind, so greatly that he professed his superiority over the drow...and now, in the sacrifice, you expose what he was "truly" proud of, an oozing mess of wrinkly tissue...or you do it because you're a priestess who was giving your most esteemed young apprentice clergy her final sip from the goblet of Lolth's transubstatiated venom, expected by everyone to a be a peaceful sacrifice since it is done so willingly, but in that moment of rage and disappointment in your OWN inability to raise a proper priestess, you dash out her brains in a sudden fit of passionate wrath - to the shock and surprise of everyone there - revealing your own weakness...or perhaps strength, considering how the drow think.

If you put your gory RP into a nice package like this, wrapped up in enough thought to appease me, then I am interested. Gory RP just to be gory becomes cliché, it loses its effectiveness, it becomes a gimmick, and you can all do better.

Now is the time when I say I'm not bashing drow. No, if I bash drow, it is going to be violent and cruel. But also, sublime.

Dev Disco wrote:

Folks, we had this fight in the DM forums already. I doubt anything you dare to say here will add anything to the comments made in there. We voted, and this is the result.

Do you also have a poll option labeled boobies and what % of the votes did it get?

Well, it has been a while since their was a topic when a DM stated he/she won't watch drow RP because it makes him/her feel sick. Ah, the good old times ...

belgianbonzai wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

Folks, we had this fight in the DM forums already. I doubt anything you dare to say here will add anything to the comments made in there. We voted, and this is the result.

Do you also have a poll option labeled boobies and what % of the votes did it get?

No, and thus 0%.

Dev Disco wrote:

No, and thus 0%.

Then I call this rule null and void according to amian tradition!!!
:roll:

Anyway, I guess I'll never be able to try and outgore the person sacrificing one of my characters then... if I'd ever end up captured and on a sacrificial altar

Should be fun though:
Person A: *he slowly slices his dagger over your stomach a thin line of blood appearing*
Person B: *the thin line suddenly bursts open bowels flying all around decorating his torturer like a christmass tree*

well you get the idea...

edit: ps: i don't give a damn about these rules as i don't initiate either type of rp

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

What shes trying to say is, you can do:

::shatters his hand with a large rock::

But you can't do:

::Drops a large rock, which shatter his hand. The bone shards... blah blah blah gory gory gory I read too many horror stories::

What about
*I started punching him until all I was hitting were little bone shards that I drove deeper into the earth* ?

Not to gory yet... still descriptive enough for some?

Slig wrote:

If I cybered, [...] my palemaster would like it zombified [...]

And he got a boner *bad pun*
He would need a raise dead scroll! *Even worse pun*

And to the whole rule, banning cybering and pedophilia is ok for me, I never saw Amia as a place where I could let my libido rampage.

The torture stuff however is a bit more tricky for me, I was part of some good banite Rp which was gory and through the descriptions could I express better how my character did feel and how she cringed and such while she was subject to this torture.
And I was having a blast, when the rule was enforced that you need to ask for consent was that good too with me, people who were up for it could RP it, others just said no and all were happy.
Another occasion involved Drow torture, not gory either in my opinion (YMMV) but definitely squick stuff for people.
And then was I the torturer once too with exact the same stuff, just a bit varied, where someone else than (The torturee) posted the gorey stuff.

Out right banning it however seems counterproductive to me, not only do we take one of the major things away that made certain people so special

"So what if you have studied tortuing people under the Drow, you can't use it anymore really, sucks to be you. "
"Yes, I am a little bit nuts and I believ that eating my foes will lend me their strength, however I can't do that anymore because of the rules."
"I am sorry but we can't squash you anymore with the hand of bane in a ritual sacrifice. No, we can't dent in your head with a morningstar either."

The words, the things we describe, the torture even is there to give a feeling of what is happening. How can you instill fear in all the badasses in Amia who have no parents, family or friends and whatsoever and are the lone epic badasses when you can't even cut a finger of from them to show that they are truely vulnerable and not as tough as they think they are?

As I said, I do disagree with it outright banning and the 'If it was ok before in the talk channel can you still do it' is just confusing. I saw Cannibalism Rp, does that mean I still can do that because I saw it and it was ok?
What about gutting someone and decorating the interior of a room with their intestines? I also saw that, does that mean I can play that too?

Rules are changing constantly and being vague about such a thing is not good, either we take the rule: No torture RP etc, not even if it was allowed before. Or we leave it as it is.

That is my opinion about this.

My actual opinion is that this is fine. I could RP perfectly well with this change on Amia, even as my drow.

But I still think rules are lame, and more is not better. Clarification, yes.

Rule change - please read and observe

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