AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Feedback Requested: Ash Caverns area design

Hey guys! As the Ash Caverns was my first totally from scratch project in terms of conception and design, I'm eager to get some feedback now that it has been in for a while.

I've heard pathing in certain regions is problematic, especially with summons, and that resource inaccessibility was the other major one. Please let me know the things you had trouble with, the things you didn't like personally, and the things you did. Or if you just have questions about those things!

I didn't have anything to do with any of the critter balancing or dice challenges, though, so leave those out! It won't help me help you.

Hey Letum!

I'll be the first to Post!

Everything is really fun, the only thing is the transition point underground in the heated bit? I ran around for ages figuring where the exit was, is there any possibility to make the exit look more ambigious or something?

All in all. It was fun!

I played in the Ash Caverns on its conception and found that it was a long haul with monsters that had to many resistances for a group of well geared level 30's to enjoy killing, let alone mid level 25ish people, and when you reached the actual lizard-things, they were to strong for a group of mid-level PCs to fight.

That may be an error in perception on my part, but I found that it was a very long trek that was very resource intensive, with very, very, very resilient creatures with that offered little reward for at the end.

That said, I haven't given it a shot since it was updated afterward. I don't know if creature resistances/immunities were changed or not.

From the RP perspective of Reddok and many of the dwarves so far, so mostly higher level PCs:

So far we've used the Ash Caverns as a newly found resource bounty. The trek it takes to get through is as such that no one is jumping up and down about going, but the draw of the resources is to great to ignore. The creatures are a pain, since you can't walk right through them and get to work. The environ is toxic, poisonous gases and acidic water abound! It's always enjoyable to watch a fellow dorf fall half to death from climbing the cliffs.

So all in all what I'm saying is, the area is well rounded. I've heard some folks complain not enough oomf at the boss, but I'm not even sure we've been there for that to be able to judge, hahaha. Granite & Gold, FTW!!

Myself wouldn't mind seeing the number of stone deposits reduced by a couple, and have some added somewhere on the Brogendenstein mountain.. Stone in the mountains, not the desert! hehehe I am a bit biased though...

I like the area over all the use of job system resources the environment playing a roll (acid and heat damage), but I found the spawns to be sparse given the massive maps at the start before the lizard people.

But I might just view the spawns as low given I'm comparing it to something like the old mindflayers where all three maps would fit into the area of the first Ashcaves about, but feels to have about the same spawns as all the Ash Caverns combind.

LetumLux wrote:

I didn't have anything to do with any of the critter balancing or dice challenges, though, so leave those out! It won't help me help you.

Spawns, spawn groups, difficulty of spawns... none of that is what Letum is requesting for this thread and is instead better posted here please: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80062

Glim wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

I didn't have anything to do with any of the critter balancing or dice challenges, though, so leave those out! It won't help me help you.

Spawns, spawn groups, difficulty of spawns... none of that is what Letum is requesting for this thread and is instead better posted here please: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80062

Sorry I thought by that he meant he did not make the monsters, or the damage for the effects, I did not know that also meant he did not place where they spawn.

No worries, just clarifying

Glim wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

I didn't have anything to do with any of the critter balancing or dice challenges, though, so leave those out! It won't help me help you.

Spawns, spawn groups, difficulty of spawns... none of that is what Letum is requesting for this thread and is instead better posted here please: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80062

I probably should have read that part. In general I quite enjoy the area. It's neat looking but I feel that it would be more interesting as something other than what it is. As an area where you go to level, it's kind of dull. But if it were the center of a plot at the heart of a volcano, or something. I would frankly love to see DM plots and events centered around it.

I think this dungeon is a bit too long. It'd be fine in an actual campaign, where you only did it once for the thrill and experience, but as something you go back to repeatedly, it's kind of a drag. Even just running the area and killing nothing, it takes a rather long time due to the switchbacks, paths, size and hard to find exits. The ley node 1/3rd of the way through it makes it a little less burdensome, but it's still kind frustrating, with a lot of open space.

The last 1/3rd of it as you approach the lairs is cool. And it's probably good for endless grinding treasure in larger groups, due to the huge amounts of monsters, and for the resources, obviously.

Also, it would be nice to have some way to retrieve your ropes. They make good shortcuts, but having to carry around a bunch of hemp ropes is a pain. Maybe make them something like in the dwarf perfect mythal quest, where you can just use the same rope over and over to make the crossings.

The only thing I'd add (if it's not already) is a check for flying creatures on the climb checks.

I fucking love the place, it's a blast to go through and just have fun, relax, and see cool stuff.

I wish there were more large, expansive areas like this, that had so much depth to the place. You have to think about how to do the Ash Caverns, and it's actually difficult for a single person to solo it, though it can be done if you're determined.

I love it to pieces <3

It has event/RP potential, but I also think it is a bit 'open-ended' in terms of dungeons. I admit I was very lost trying to get to through it due to its lack of clear direction.

Map pins marking the "start" and "finish" of each area, might help maybe? Watcha think? (can't remember if there are or not)

That was actually intended! Was it found to be too annoying?

For me... Which is probably why I loved all the Final Fantasies before 12. But I'm probably one of the more critical people in our community. So take it with a grain of salt.

Glim wrote:

Map pins marking the "start" and "finish" of each area, might help maybe? Watcha think? (can't remember if there are or not)

That would help, perhaps also transitions too!

Er... not sure what you mean by that Ahriman? Transitions are already how you move from one area to the next...

Like putting a pin up on the maps to mark up transitions,In the fire cave for example, The exit in that cave took a long while for me to find, 10 mins approximately

All in all, this is Dirgesh's favorite area in the mod with all of the resources and the place is expansive and beautiful. Some of the resources aren't where you can actually get to and click on them to mine however. If someone brought that up earlier in the thread, sorry for the repeat. Thumbs up on the ash caverns.

Blue fires zone and Karst Kulwar area are especially good.

I just don't like getting lost so often, and having to go backwards to retrieve my summon. The non-linear aspect for the middle area is a double-edged sword I think. The map really doesn't help tell you where you can and cannot move.

Spent three hours mapping the areas with my dorf. Great fun!
Karst Kulwar is a treat, I think. superb tileset and great experience.
I probably would have liked even more dead ends in that map, with a requirement to take notes (add map pins) for future exploration, but I see Murex has a different opinion.

You could probably add more cliffs to climb down with the rope, given the place is supposed to be very mountainous.
The last part of that area (towards transition to Braxat Lair) is simply awesome.

The minimaps (explorer job) for Hunter's Catwalk, Hunter's Lair and Karst Kulwar show up totally white. I think msheeler mentioned this is linked to the tileset.

Moar!

I found the layout fine enough. I didn't think it was overly long, but I did think it needed a little scenery as just most of the maps are empty space and that kind of starts to make it all "samish" and monotonous. Some interesting rock formations or something like that in the desert, some stunted trees on a couple of mountains maybe.

Thought maybe adding a very small nomadic village or maybe prospector's camp halfway would make things interesting. Toss in a quest or two. Sell rope. Promotes RP in the place.

Kind of disappointed there was no thoqqua. Got me overly hopeful I might find myself going to the Plane of Fire on seeing that area's name!

Have ah... you guys read any of the descriptive PLCs in the areas? Because it's not a desert, you're in underground caverns in and around a (mostly) dormant volcano... :-P

I really wanted there to be a thoqqua, but we don't have a model to do it justice. Maybe, someday...!

I'm glad some people like the challenge of the Karst Kulwar. Since we can't make actual mazes due to an inability to turn off the minimap, that tileset is about close as one can get, and something I always wanted to do to rely on the IG cues and not a bird's eye map.

Keep the feedback comin' and thank you!

The climb check seems to only take the greater of your strength or dex mod and adds it to the roll. It does not seem to combine the mods. They also don't allow polymorphed creatures, though I'm really not certain why this should be so.

Eurgiga wrote:

They also don't allow polymorphed creatures, though I'm really not certain why this should be so.

Its a known thing back from when Glim changed the us_jump_to_tag script used by many PLCs.

Eurgiga wrote:

The climb check seems to only take the greater of your strength or dex mod and adds it to the roll. It does not seem to combine them...

Can you put that in the IA thread for this area please so I know to fix he climb check?

Feedback Requested: Ash Caverns area design

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