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LetumLux
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 Posted: Sat, Dec 27 2014, 23:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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meretricious
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 1:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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Min/maxing stats are not needed when you can make builds that don’t need to do so. I may be socially awkward (as I am in real life) and often afraid to RP deeply with others, but I do know if you want to melee on this server, you need to build to 45 ab (not to mention the massive AC I need as well). It is not easy to do so.
Give me a server that needs 40 ab to survive without a shield and I will build to 40 with an awesome great axe and use the rest to flesh out my character in other fun ways. But just like in real life, survival takes a priority over luxury. And on builds that don’t need charisma to survive, it is a luxury the server doesn't allow without a strong party.
I clearly don’t understand something here. Maybe if you lower build requirements, players will exploit the system unfairly, I guess. But if I build differently, I can’t explore the server. Do you want me to explore the server or not?
I would like to just party up, so it doesn't matter. However, I often find myself with no one to party with. Half the time I run into an area, people go right in to OOC to discuss who should leave. I ask to stay in IC and get ignored. If I want to see and explore the server and not sit around talking in Cordor about trading items, I have to build to 45 ab (not to mention the massive AC I need as well).
I am willing to RP my negative scores. However, I just want to point out it isn’t happening because I am a power builder. It happens because I am human and the server requires it for survival. I am sure many feel the same way, but it is just a guess. I also feel like I should never post another build here again after reading the DM statement. Maybe I am reading too deeply into the post though.
RPing a negative stat like -1 or -2 shouldn't be a big deal anyways when 0 is supposed to be average. It is a lot harder and even unrealistic to RP a 30 stat. If my strength is 30, what does that even look like? I would suppose I would like that a freakish monster (which should lower my charisma score automatically anyways) and scare off everyone that looks at me.
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Fennewald!
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 1:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2014
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I agree with meretricious' post in the other thread. Clearly I have no problem RPing 8 cha and 8 dex, but that's my character's thing. Enforcing stat modifiers like police will limit RP. Aren't we trying to create RP?
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Tyrak
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Location: In Falsetto
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From what I saw in the post, it doesn't seem like this is an exceptionally big deal. This does seem more like a reminder of general policy than a big, hardcore rule shift. I don't think the staff are going to go, "No, you must have a minimum of 14 charisma to make this speech!", or something like that. Though, obviously, I could be wrong.
This is moreso a general practice you want to keep in mind. Be willing to acknowledge weaknesses. Many do, but, honestly, some do not, and it's kind of annoying. I'll admit, it annoys me slightly when I'm in an event with a hardcore min-maxed fighter, for example, who has 30 STR, 20 CON, and 6 DEX, who then proceeds to roleplay doing a backflip in full-plate.
That's silly. And, obviously, a dramatized example. But that's kind of what you want to avoid. There are many ways to interpret your stats, however, and I don't think there is (or at least, shouldn't be) a hard and fast rule about it. One of my characters, for example, is particularly intellectual and pretty well-spoken, but ugly as sin and has a very hard time with most social situations. I tried to reflect this in having high INT, but low CHA, despite the fact that he's sometimes capable of some very persuasive words. Any words he says are born purely out of logic and reasoning, rather than appealing to emotion or other persuasive tricks. He's not very charismatic, but he's pretty dayng smart.
TL;DR: The announcement seemed more like a gentle reminder of general policy than a hard-and-fast rule shift to a mechanical, black-and-white kind of system. I may be wrong with this observation, but I don't personally think we have reason to worry.
Just keep in mind that every character has weaknesses, and use your common sense.
_________________ Currently Playing:
- Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
- Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Tyrak wrote: TL;DR: The announcement seemed more like a gentle reminder of general policy than a hard-and-fast rule shift to a mechanical, black-and-white kind of system. I may be wrong with this observation, but I don't personally think we have reason to worry.
Just keep in mind that every character has weaknesses, and use your common sense. This is basically it! Nothing about this stance is new; it's always been this way, and now that we've opened up a whole subsection dedicated to stats, where the numbers are given alone, without any accompanying IC reason, it needed the reminder and reaffirming that this does not imply a shift toward a more Arena style server.
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Fennewald!
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2014
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Kay.
Also: Hackums? Haaaackums? You there, man?
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Folks, it's like this: If you have 8 (or 6!!!) CHA because you min/maxed then don't be super hot or charismatic. INT, you're stupid. WIS, you're a different sort of stupid. STR, you're weak as poo. DEX, you clumsy fuck. CON, sickly much? It's how it's always been, and it's very reasonable. Also, you don't need a specific AB on this server. I have a somewhat atrocious build that does just fine. You need a super build in order to SOLO THINGS. Amia is about partying it up. Even with a subpar build you should be fine in a party. Don't blow things out of proportion 
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Shadowfiend
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King
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Also the way I see it, take in note that the racial bonuses should be considered when rp'ing your stats, an elf with 8 con, 10 str and 12 dex is a normally built elf, and so on
_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition
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Alaria-
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 2:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Location: Riding the flow of the wind!
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I think it is important to RP negatives, at least to some degree, even if it isn't exactly related to what the game tells us about the ability scores.(I don't think that for example Charisma should reflect physical beauty at all.). Personally, I like it a lot when I see people using their own definitions of the ability scores and reflect them in strengths/weaknesses.
I can use my own character Lyraesel as an example and how I play her. Her biggest weaknesses are her Strength(10) and Wisdom(8). Low strength is fairly easy to RP as frailty, and she will often display that while for example shaking hands with another PC.
As for Wisdom, I choose to play her as relatively clever (14 Int), but heavily influenced by emotions. Being emotionally controlled means that her feelings often gets in the way of her "rational" thinking. If she doesn't like somebody, she will have a hard time giving them a chance. If she likes someone, or if they win her trust, it will be a bond that is difficult to break. Her emotions are fairly easy to read, and if she feels threatened she will be as social and as stiff as a rock. She may be gullible at times, when for example she was once tricked by a shadow-dancer Drow to accompany him somewhere unsafe.
To anyone reading builds here I have the following suggestion: Don't create your character based on the build, but rather the build out of the character. Regardless of what kind of class you're interested in, I think it's good to draw hints or inspiration from here if you're into powerbuilding. Changing out a few feats from builds posted here isn't going to destroy your character.
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meretricious
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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I removed my two builds based upon the information I gathered. Honestly, the builds I posted are no different than ones that have been posted for years in the "Teach a Man to Fish" thread which are mostly about min/max because of concerns of not having enough AB, AC, or the like. However, I can clearly see that we are looking for different types of builds to be posted here than before. Otherwise, why define Amia as a "party server" and state you don't need 45 ab for this server. I, on the other hand, clearly need 45 ab for the server because my melee builds that aren't built for 45 miss a whole lot (I guess I am unique).
Should we just post "party builds" that don't max AB/AC? I never seen a build posted like that before anywhere for NWN. But that doesn't mean I can't build them that way. I am a Lego master builder. I can make anything.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Not once has anybody said that having a negative stat modifier is bad or detrimental to the server. People have said over and over that all the reminder was intended for, was to remind you that if your character has an 8 Charisma, then that character should probably be kind of socially inept or ugly or weak of character. There's nothing wrong with this. Feel free to make min-maxed builds and become the ultimate ruler of the server... But play the stats that are low as well as high  _________________ Osiris Masud
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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I don't think there was anything wrong with the builds that you posted, meretricious, nor were they unwelcome. I don't see any issue with them being there.
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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I personally think that low stats can be great components that help develop a character.
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Tyrak
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Location: In Falsetto
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Yeah, uh. Nothing wrong with negative-stat builds. One of my favourite characters ever had 18 Charisma, 16 Intelligence, and negative stats in almost everything else. He was absolutely worthless in any form of combat and many forms of non-combat. And I was okay with this, it added to the character.
But man, was he pretty.
Just don't worry about it. The build forum is here for discussing good builds, right? Oftentimes this involves min-maxing. If someone wants to tone this down to something that would roleplaying fewer weaknesses, they can tweak it. Or, they can just take it as it is, and just be a character who's really strong in some things and really poor in some others. Those kinds of people exist, and there's nothing wrong with that.
_________________ Currently Playing:
- Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
- Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard
Last edited by Tyrak on Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:57 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Opustus
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:56 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Finland
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As in many things, the mechanical fun of the server has always been represented by two vocal extremities. This perpetual polarity tends to blur any truthful representation of the game and the role of the numbers and dice therein.
I almost invariably invent the build before the actual character. My fascination with builds has certainly made me a worse RPer; the time I spend on Amia is less focused on communicating with others due to the obviously catastrophic equation of being cursed with tunnel vision and the attention span of a goldfish. As a result, my attention is undivided, but mostly for the things that don't actually matter.
Despite standing among the grubbiest and grittiest champions of Camp Powergame, contrary to popular opinion, I profoundly and blatantly believe that RP is the dope. My temperament makes me ill-bred for it, but I enjoy pretending and acting as much as the next guy. It's an endlessly exciting form of self-expression, but keeping it consistently fun and engaging requires a whole lot of energy and commitment. Instead of showing the slightest mental effort, I occupy myself with easier obstacles the business people would describe as short-term objectives. I am very proficient at scheming and developing long-term objectives, but alas exclusively inside of my head, so none of them ever exits the think-tank. This is naturally an utter waste of resources, mental and physical, as for some reason I find the time to conduct arduous (to me) research to supply the character concept with the bare minimum lore, despairingly absent of any proper implementation.
The powergame of Amia has grown on me accidently, that day be damned. I found it logical and there were so many options people had never considered, so many details to be reconsidered. Comparing this to the RP is roughly the equal of comparing the gratification gained from completing a medium sudoku to seeing The Phantom of the Opera live in London. Why would anyone play Amia for the sake of mechanics? Either you have to be (a) allergic to books, (b) bored to death at work, bookless, with a little sparetime to either grind or masturbate, or (c) afflicted with a vicious OCD that manifests itself in Amia, which you picked up from childhood and are too weak and addicted to give up. I'm the wee'est, most excusable bit of guilty of both (b) and (c), but you have to be a numpty not to realise that games, at the risk of making a generalisation to bedevil the OGs of RPG, have developed, like lots, since the publication of NWN.
What's the point of all this? This part gets a bit fuzzy to me as I'm only sobering up, but I guess what I mean to say is: Minmax is a natural part of the game, because people without the capacity to long-term RP may want to make the most out of the little things. The halflings when they make their rogues, or the half-orcs when they decide to play a class that can be both stupid and graceless at the same time. It may be shameless, but if somebody likes it, I don't see why anybody could be arsed to tell him otherwise. This I say with the solemn hope and silent prayer to all the gods of Faerun that there be not a single doofus playing the game for the grind instead of the RP. I will personally donate you my Steam account and computer, if anyone dares to confess.
_________________
Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid
Last edited by Opustus on Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:05 AM, edited 3 times in total.
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meretricious
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 3:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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Well let’s see here. First, in a thread designed for mechanics and after some builds are posted, a DM explicitly states a warning about RPing stats of a build and the consequences of not RPing a min/max build (in a thread when people traditionally only talk about mechanics). Then, a developer informs me this is a party server and I don’t need 45 ab builds here. Then, a player states you should change the power builds with different feats. Then a second player tells me to feel free to become the ultimate ruler of the server.
Yet, you want me to believe that there is nothing wrong with the builds I posted? Ok!
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Tyrak
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Location: In Falsetto
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meretricious wrote: Yet, you want me to believe that there is nothing wrong with the builds I posted? Yeah. That's kind of how free speech works, I think. (Even though, obviously, it's rare to have truly free speech, but you get what I mean and let's not bring politics into this.)I think you're taking this far too seriously, friend. Relax a bit. This is a forum about good builds. Don't worry so much about posting good builds. Again, none of this is anything new. And do people regularly get blasted for being too good at combat? Or banned for having AC that's too high? No, they do not. It is okay. '-'; _________________ Currently Playing:
- Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
- Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard
Last edited by Tyrak on Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:03 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Yes. Because nothing that was said is new stance, it was merely a reminder that people are free to allocate their stats whenever they like, but as an RP server, those stats also need to be RPed. I apologize if you felt especially targeted, meretricious. That was certainly not the intention! It was not aimed at anyone specifically at all. There had been concern in the community when the topic of making a build subforum was discussed before, that it would cause more issues with people who don't even consider the impact their stats might have on their character, and look like we were moving away from being an RP server. The announcement was to assure that nothing has changed, in fact, despite there now being a build subforum: that we have made the forum to better organize, and allow people to better search for and present their ideas for builds instead of them all being crammed into one topic. That is quite literally the only thing that has changed. There is nothing to be alarmed about!
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Fennewald! wrote: Clearly I have no problem RPing 8 cha and 8 dex, but that's my character's thing. Enforcing stat modifiers like police will limit RP. Aren't we trying to create RP? LetumLux wrote: ... we except players to be able to enforce themselves and include the necessary reasoning and portrayal of their negative stats. I don't see how our stances are mutually exclusive! Please let me know if I can clarify or explain it in another way. I feel like this started off with alarm, and its caused a sort of inflammation of the situation and now tensions are hiked as a result. I'm glad that everyone who has participated in this topic has been chill even while expressing themselves, and I hope that it continues. We want to be able to address concerns, and have you (used in the general reader way) feel comfortable to voice them. We also want to keep misunderstanding from causing issues that may not be there, or from making a concern into a much larger issue than it really is.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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meretricious wrote: First, in a thread designed for mechanics and after some builds are posted, a DM explicitly states a warning (...) Ah, I think I may understand the reaction better. This wasn't a cause and effect thing. The announcement was going to happen regardless, and was not in response to any of the builds that had been posted when the subforum was opened. You can blame me for that entirely. I was eager to get the subforum up and out for Christmas as a sort of present to the community, but all of our forum guidelines (as pretty much all of our subforums have) hadn't actually be finished yet to be posted. I didn't anticipate that would be an issue, so I didn't keep the subforum locked until all of the announcements were up. That was my mistake. I can assure you that the announcement was not in response to your builds posted, or anyone else's. It was simply a case of poor-looking timing.
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 4:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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How is 8 dexterity ideally played out then? Doesn't seem right for someone to suddenly fall over when they're just walking. Or someone to suddenly drop their sword mid-battle despite having a locked gauntlet and a strong death-grip on it.
_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 5:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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There is a specific chart I'm looking for from one of the books that gives examples of the different modifier levels, and it'll be posted in that announcement thread along with other clarifications. I found some good little blurbs about the subject, though: D&D Stats in Simple Language (Off-site). I like this one, although the descriptions don't actually match up with what a character would actually be mechanically capable of for the higher modifiers - they're underestimates. That said, I think the suggestions sound more reasonable in a world where our characters can pretty easily get 30-40 (!) in an Ability score. A post on another forum (off-site): Quote: Do you know someone who seems to be constantly making poor judgement calls (getting involved with the wrong people, doing something unsafe or stupid and getting hurt, etc.)? Those are the slightly-lower-than-average Wisdom people.
Do you know anyone who isn't necessarily super attractive, physically, but they seem to make others' faces light up when they enter the room? They make you feel special when they acknowledge you? Those are slightly higher than average Charisma people. They don't "charm" or dominate you, but you do go out of your way to please them a little bit more.
I have a DM who is just really sharp about memorizing things and doing math on the fly. He's got a moderately high intelligence.
Oh, by the way, in my experience a moderately high Charisma person who is also a moderately low Wisdom person is a really dangerous combination because he/she has this way of convincing others to also engage in foolish behavior... Also, in general, you get worse faster than you get better, because the floor is much closer to you than the ceiling (if that makes sense to you).
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Tyrak
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 5:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Location: In Falsetto
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666WaysToHell wrote: How is 8 dexterity ideally played out then? Doesn't seem right for someone to suddenly fall over when they're just walking. Or someone to suddenly drop their sword mid-battle despite having a locked gauntlet and a strong death-grip on it. In my opinion, there is no "ideal" way to play any sort of stat weakness. There's a whole bunch of ways you can do it. For example, a character with really low CON may be particularly prone to illness, or maybe lacking in stamina. Or maybe they just have a small frame. For dexterity, you could roleplay it as being clumsy if you wanted, or you could roleplay it as being a physical powerhouse who's not exceptionally agile, akin to heavily-armoured knights of the Middle Ages. Do keep in mind, by the way, that since 10 is considered "average", 8 would just be below average. Not like you have to go falling over yourself everywhere, or move at the speed of a slug. A lot of it is open to interpretation and how you want to do it. As another example, my favourite mage had rather subpar Wisdom. NWN describes a high-INT, low-WIS character as an "absentminded professor" type of character, but that's just one possible recommendation. In my case, I roleplayed it as him being, actually, pretty good with tactics and the like, and not particularly lacking in common sense. So, where does the low Wisdom come in, you ask? Well, he was also extremely and hopelessly overconfident. It was a trait I planned on giving him anyway, but a lower Wisdom score made it perfect. Sure, he was good with tactics, but his plans were meant with a wizard in mind that was at least three times stronger than he was, so they had a tendency to be comically subpar in their execution. It was a fun way to play with the idea, and most everyone found it perfectly acceptable. The point is, stats are a guideline. There's no hard and fast "ideal" way to treat any high, low, or even average stat. It's all up to your interpretation, your ideas, and what you want to do with it. Nobody is forcing anyone to play 8 Dexterity in a certain way. There's a ton of different ways that you could, and that's all up to you and how you want to play the character. The only thing this announcement really seems to state is that we should just make sure to keep attributes in mind, and, as Letum put it, remember that we're on a roleplay server, not an Arena server. That's it. ...Pretty sure most people were doing that anyway. So, hey. Also, again, this is all just my own opinion, but I stand by it._________________ Currently Playing:
- Krel'xiekiv - Kobold Scout
- Aldriano Alode'tnen - Fabulous Bard
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meretricious
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 5:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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You are a really nice DM and working very hard to get this build thread going (while also trying to appease people that don't want to see "power builds" on the server). It is not an easy place to be (heavy is the crown).
I think there is an issue of labeling and fear of sneering at names of people that build high AB/AC characters even if they make sense IC. Stats can be used to allow that to occur. Not from everyone, but it is certainly there. It is a form of group thought and a sort of social power building in itself. So, that maybe is why you don't have many builds posted yet as well. On the old thread, builds were more personal (as in this is my build - what do you think about it and no one cared if you used it). This new way makes the builds the communities instead. That is harder to do.
If you want to lead, I think some builds need to be posted that the DM team finds acceptable. I will follow your lead and post what I hope the community wants.
Perhaps, a “request” thread would be welcomed so that specific RP feats and skills can be built into specific builds. If you post a min/max build, people will be less likely to sneer at others I think also. You can also request suggested "RP" for builds that get posted in a general sense to at least ensure players are aware of build issues (such as a Dwarf with no craft weapon should not be RPing how he is an amazing blacksmith that worked every night on the axe he actually bought from a merchant). This is not a part of the rules and guidelines right now.
Lastly, I can assure you different people have very different views on how stats should be played. I grew up playing D&D in the Boy scouts and was taught that a "0" is average so a "-1" to me does mean much at all (and I never research it, so maybe that isn't even right). For others though, it may seem a much bigger deal. Simply saying "-1" means you are stupid isn't that useful. I have a graduate degree in English. I think the kiddies running around with Bachelors degrees at my school are stupid and know nothing about literature. They think people with no college degrees no nothing about literary studies (which is another concern for INT - Intelligence is contextual not only in degrees but also to specific things). My dad is a moron when it comes to literature. But he could build a car out of scrap metal and thinks I am an idiot when it comes to cars.
And again, I will assert my opinion that 45 ab barely cuts it here. It does not make one the ultimate ruler of the server. In a party or not, you need to be able to hit things well if that is the role you are playing.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 5:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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I think you should repost your builds, personally. I'm fairly terrible at making effective builds myself, so you won't see very many helpful suggestions from me in that regard. Mechanical balance doesn't really "click" to me the way that it does for others who seem to understand it like a native language. I'm more about strategizing once IG, rather than how the numbers work out.
And, really more importantly, an acceptable build is one that doesn't disregard RP elements. That's pretty much it. If you make a build that is a Blackguard with an Aasimar as its Race and Evil Alignment, that is a problem if there is no RP to go along with why an Aasimar (a race that has strong pull toward Good Alignment due to its Outsider (Good) heritage) would be Evil aligned and a Blackguard on top of it. It's not that we're saying you can never do this in a million years; it's that, like any other character, there should be a story as to why they are the way they are. Whether you make a build first and then tailor a character to fit it, or do it the other way around, is really a preferential thing about how your own brain works best to create something. I do both, myself. Sometimes I detail a character out to the nines - sometimes I just have a concept I want to run with and see where it goes, so I only detail the very important/pivotal things.
I think you should be less concerned with what the community wants. We have rules and guidelines that need to be followed of course; but this is really more about preferences, in a way. If you want to play a powerful character, who cares, beyond helping you tweak it to be better? Because only raw numbers tend to be discussed in builds, all the announcement is saying is "When you're happy with the build, don't forget the lore/reasoning that goes with it."
For negative states, the drop tends to be way more extreme. -1 is a little more intense than +1. -2 is way more intense than a +2, and it goes exponentially from there. You also have to keep in mind that not all of the Ability Score details are going to match up to real world feats of Strength/Agility/Endurance/Intellect/etc - it gets far too complicated to break it down into all the little details. Really, all you need to do is keep the descriptors (average, below average, poor, etc) in mind, and then apply that how you feel would appropriate to your character. If they have -6 Charisma, how might that manifest? Are they just an obnoxious lout, never have any tact? Maybe it's a personality trait and then on top of that, they also are rude consciously, making it even worse! It's really up to you, the specifics of how and why.
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Yin
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 5:41 AM |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
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I afraid that kind of strict system is very rigid and won't work fine in the long run. As, it can be fine for single DM campaign, where it allows players perform their characters at the certain (usually not very long) period of time - and it is fine like that. Yet, we have a persistent world here where players spending years of their time here playing their characters, and such strict rigid system makes no sense in the long run will disallow those long time characters to change and improve (without making rebuilds which sometimes not so good idea especially with Amia hardcore encounter and fighting system).
Due to game strict mechanics characters supposed to have "red line" before them, which they can not cross no matter what, which means if you become better in something, you will have to become worse in something else, and there is no "learning" and "development" this way for characters stucked at 30 level for years without improving. And there is no fun in playing character that can not improve this way, due to game mechanic limitations. As they will be forced to play someone dumb even if they actually spent months reading encyclopedic books for example. On the other hand, there is problem with "player limitations" in playing their character attributes. While it is not hard to play those "low" attributes as we can play it fine from the top of our personal abilities. So, for another example - a healthy player will most likely be fine with proper playing character that is healthy, and, as it is not so hard to emulate, character that is disabled, and being stucked to wheelchair or deaf (all those for example), while player that was stuck to wheelchair or being deaf from birth, will hardly be able to play healthy player properly as it has little to no personal experience in that matter. And those are limitations to all aspects of that character certain player will be playing. And it is not fair this way in my opinion. As you're forced to play "lower" stats properly, but you will need to be socialite or genius yourself, to play character with high charisma or intellect properly this way, as they are limited to your personal abilities. What I am trying to say, that it is fine if character's biography will reflect it's game mechanical stats, but after that there should be no limitations to how and in which way character will be developed after that. As it can fear everyone at first, having low charisma, for example, but later, with help of friends it will eventually make one way or another, it will become more used to society, and it doesn't automatically mean it will have to become weaker, or dumber or whatever else, as it will be character development on RP level. And living and developing character is most interesting thing in RP, especially if it is persistent world.
P.S.
I still want to see someone playing 42 charisma properly. Most closed to it, from what I've seen so far was certain copperkin bard, though, I am pretty sure it was around 18-20 charisma playing.
_________________
'Everything moves somewhere and changes somehow.'
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 6:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Personally I'm against telling people how to role play. But having an 8 charisma and role playing your character as "perfection" in term of physical beauty is annoying. Role playing a "nimble" character with a dexterity of 8 is pretty tiresome too. Gerald has a charisma of 9 and I bring that up a lot when he says he's not fast enough for something. Liberties are cool, but we have deficiencies and those give our characters depth and make them more interesting. I put not playing those deficiencies because you want a perfect character to be on par with pvping because you want to "win". It's just no fun to be around.
_________________  Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:08 AM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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There is no problem with Powerbuilding in my opinion, and it shouldn't be looked down upon, because all characters have the same potential, and the mechanics are pretty darn balanced when it comes to classes. A character that ends up with a score of 38 in one stat will have at least one other stat that is horrible- and this can be seen as a weakness that can be exploited, and played out as that score should be played. I'm a bit tired of people bitching about how others like to do things as players and how it differs from their way of playing- but one thing is for sure: all stats should be role-played to match how it would be in reality. There is no unfairness.
I once made an untouchable character with crazy high AC, and great saves- but the weakness was the lack of offence. I'm sure others have made characters like this before, and there is not really much power in these kinds of builds because all they can do is survive. A build with crazy offense at the expense of defense is not really powerful either, because wielding a greatsword and having 40 strength while having no AC and horrible reflex and will saves is actually pretty much just as weak as any other maxed out character.
The only thing that should be stressed is how stats are role-played, so this topic is VERY helpful in helping players understand how they should be role-playing their stats. I'm glad this topic now exists, because it was probably very needed.
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:16 AM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Tyrak wrote: The point is, stats are a guideline. There's no hard and fast "ideal" way to treat any high, low, or even average stat. It's all up to your interpretation, your ideas, and what you want to do with it. Nobody is forcing anyone to play 8 Dexterity in a certain way. There's a ton of different ways that you could, and that's all up to you and how you want to play the character. The only thing this announcement really seems to state is that we should just make sure to keep attributes in mind, and, as Letum put it, remember that we're on a roleplay server, not an Arena server. That's it.
...Pretty sure most people were doing that anyway. So, hey.
Also, again, this is all just my own opinion, but I stand by it. I agree, but somewhat disagree. All stats should be played in-line with the numbers. A character with 8 charisma should not be charismatic and super attractive. The real issue I think is the problem of some people wanting their character to be great in all areas, when the numbers indicate otherwise- those players need a kick in the butt and a finger waved at them at the very least.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Also, many of the questions and concerns being put forward have been addressed in the many previous topics about this, which can be found through some forum searching! That said, feel free to continue discussing the topic here in the present with a constructive and civil attitude. (This is in general, not directed at anyone in particular!) Murex wrote: I once made an untouchable character with crazy high AC, and great saves- but the weakness was the lack of offence. (...) You mean... a monk?! 
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Silkelock
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden
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The notion of roleplaying your stats is nothing new and has always been there. From time to time we remind all our players that stats matter both ways. No we are not saying 8 CHA means you are the ringer of Notre Dame. We are not saying 8 WIS and 20 INT makes your character the equivalent of Raymond Babbitt either. We are however asking you to within reasonable borders consider the stats you have selected, take note of subrace and their well known features. The earth genasi is a calm and "slow" race that can have rocky skin or something else. Or keep in mind that air genasi usually see themselves as the better of all races, after all. Their voices are sublime and they hail from Djinns, humans got nothing on that. I see so much good roleplay from all of our players without consideration to a build. But when I do look one level deeper and once in a blue moon find that one character with 6 in one stat and a bio and behaviour contradicting everything, that is when death comes knocking on their door   DISCLAIMER: Characters do not die because their stats and bio does not match.
_________________ Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
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Ice
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Location: Usa
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There are a few interesting points to highlight up there.
The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
Planning your build is the bane of RP because you are setting a straight path for your character, something that you are not to be dissuaded from unless the extreme happens.
Everybody agrees that RPing your stats is to be expected, and players are left to their discretion to do so to the best of their abilities. No pun intended.
To RP mental stats straight by sheet is impossible because of the very flawed nature of trying to translate a brain in 3 categories of numbers.
But ain't nobody got time fo' dat. From RPing stats, we can also take the leap to RPing skills and saves.
Reflex is not dexterity.
Will is not discipline.
Discipline is not concentration.
Too tired to write properly. Will come back later. WITH SENSE.
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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When my characters are in role-play situations, I have their low stats in the back of my mind. I didn't do this when I first started playing, and I'm sure I'm not alone on this. This topic (I think) is to help to put players represent low stats while role-playing. I feel that too many players ignore low stats, or just don't have a good interpretation of how those low stats should be addressed while role-playing their characters. There are concerns with how low stats and high stats conflict with each other in some ways, so there isn't really one way to represent a low stat. An example of this would be low wisdom, but high intelligence; that kind of character isn't to be role-played as stupid, ore maybe not even someone who makes horrible decisions all the time- the player has to be creative in how the low stat needs to be represented without betraying other stats that would override behaviors. LetumLux wrote: Murex wrote: I once made an untouchable character with crazy high AC, and great saves- but the weakness was the lack of offence. (...) You mean... a monk?! Yep.
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Silkelock
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 7:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden
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Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
I would argue it is a catch 22 on that. Introducing new critters we have to take into account those extremeley powerful builds that can solo bosses. In my mind the server should not cater to those who just go lone ranger all day to hunt bosses. Creatures at those level should be such a challenge it would be impossible to do it alone. _________________ Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
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Glim
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 8:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia
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Silkelock wrote: Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
I would argue it is a catch 22 on that. Introducing new critters we have to take into account those extremeley powerful builds that can solo bosses. In my mind the server should not cater to those who just go lone ranger all day to hunt bosses. Creatures at those level should be such a challenge it would be impossible to do it alone. This is where I'll disagree. There are ways to make encounters challenging without requiring a certain level of stats. Anyone who has tested the Labyrinth with me, can attest to this. But at any rate, folks are mostly just making a mountain out of a mole hill here. No one's telling you how to RP, no one's saying powerbuilding or mix-maxing or whatever you want to call it is bad. No one's saying don't post this build or that build. All that the staff wished to communicate, is a reminder to RP all aspects of your character sheet, not just the high points. Simple as that.
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meretricious
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 11:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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Silkelock wrote: The notion of roleplaying your stats is nothing new and has always been there. We are however asking you to within reasonable borders consider the stats you have selected, take note of subrace and their well known features. The earth genasi is a calm and "slow" race that can have rocky skin or something else. Or keep in mind that air genasi usually see themselves as the better of all races, after all. Their voices are sublime and they hail from Djinns, humans got nothing on that. I see so much good roleplay from all of our players without consideration to a build. But when I do look one level deeper and once in a blue moon find that one character with 6 in one stat and a bio and behaviour contradicting everything, that is when death comes knocking on their door DISCLAIMER: Characters do not die because their stats and bio does not match. So, we now have no way to imagine cultural influences that change people. What if an Air Genasi was stolen and raised by a human monk (I have a Monk that I Role-played that way for a year now and I could have chosen Earth and got the same stats...but Air fit what I had in mind - that Monk is still searching for her parents by the way). But Airs tend to chaotic...so now I don't want to play her here. Do I need a bio that explains everything so I don't have worry about death knocking at my door? After a DM explains expectations for RP negative stats, what is next? No one can run during an adventure? We need to talk to NPCs? Magic bags aren't realistic? We need to eat and drink water? How long until you throw a description of what a "rogue" or a "wizard" should be role played like and insist on it? Please allow a player to come on and tell everyone the right way to play a monk next with a massive description from a D&D book that leaves no consideration for cultural influences that produce uniqueness. I have seen that before and t is not pretty either. The freedom to do our own RP to a degree is what made Amia special at least to me and not like that other server it broke from. I've seen tons of great servers eventually start telling players how they expect RP. This is the start of it. If you are going to warn people about seeing min stats, we need to know your expectations for RPing them with specific examples next, so death does not come knocking at our door when we don't RP the exact way a DM wants. So you brought it up. People get worried about punishments mentioned and now need a guide to avoid said punishments. You just set up a system for controlling RP. And yes doing things like role playing negative stats was always here. But no one was breathing down anyone's neck about it and throwing warnings up in build threads. We did it for fun. After this people will demand they can force positive stat RP on people since it is realistic for some wih a 40 intimidate to make someone lick his boot. A DM already mentioned a high Chrisma and a low WIS can lead other PCs to get into trouble. It sounds like more forced RP to me. And I would lick ithe boot so no one attacks me from above. Good luck being the guardians of RP. Elitist often enjoy controlling others. But it is rare to find peopel that like being controlled for fun. I suggest you rename the build thread to RP thread. It was completely high jacked.
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lilmarcat
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 11:55 AM |
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Joined: 27 Dec 2013
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Woah... I think the staff here was mostly kidding about punishments. They're just trying to tell people to -consider- there characters stats and how that would effect them on a In Character level. Any so called punishment would probably just be a DM seeing someone with 6 CHA and then just assuming there either really bad at persuading people or probably pretty ugly. Depending on what there Bio says would depend on what the DM comes up with.
Its not as if the staff is actually going to punish you for your build.
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Manarethan
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 12:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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Stop acting like a child. This is nothing more than a polite reminder to keep your stats and race in mind when RPing your character. You taking it as a personal attack on the sanctity of creative RP is unwarranted.
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lilmarcat
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 12:44 PM |
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Joined: 27 Dec 2013
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Glim wrote: But at any rate, folks are mostly just making a mountain out of a mole hill here. No one's telling you how to RP, no one's saying powerbuilding or mix-maxing or whatever you want to call it is bad. No one's saying don't post this build or that build. All that the staff wished to communicate, is a reminder to RP all aspects of your character sheet, not just the high points.
Simple as that.
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WrathOfTheNorth
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 13:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Location: UK.
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Roleplaying your stats is definitely an agreed point, More so with myself. In fact you can almost play them to the PC's advantage. Murex wrote: I personally think that low stats can be great components that help develop a character. Agreed.Alaria- wrote: I think it is important to RP negatives, at least to some degree, even if it isn't exactly related to what the game tells us about the ability scores.(I don't think that for example Charisma should reflect physical beauty at all.). Personally, I like it a lot when I see people using their own definitions of the ability scores and reflect them in strengths/weaknesses. This is a sweet idea IMHO. I play Ahriman whom have developed a lot within the last few months, With different visitors coming to Tarkuul, Like the point above, You do see quite a few people roleplay their stats really well, Also to the point where it gives you a view as to perhaps ~why~ they suffer from those negative traits. Ice wrote:
The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
Ais's point is extremely fair, A particular example where Ahriman and another individual went hunting yesterday, Both at level 30 to hit the bosses as you do.. The spawns in between gave us a pasting. Fair play. Now the point I will say is that both individuals have had their build slighted towards the servers environment in PvE which I also speak at this point that there are talented bosshunters out there with characters as their tools which can solo said bosses. But again, I was digressing, The main point and we are all missing it is this, The job system in itself is an effective way to "Level" your character. I've done it before on a character, I've gained six levels in epic because of Orcharding. For TL:DR.
~Yes Stats should be roleplayed.
~ Yes there are bosshunters that solo out there, Making other builds pale because of the ability ~not~ to be able to do it, but pick on their weaknesses, (They will have minimised stats somewhere)
~If in doubt that PvE is your characters thing, Either wait for a party and have some sweet roleplay.. Or get a job and give it a go, You never know what interactions may come out of it. (Also earning some items you can sell too!)_________________ Xalibossk, Body Tamer & Terror Of The Underdark Khuul-Khuum -Icy Heart Award 2014- Joint 2nd Best Developed 2014!Ordained Of Her Grace
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Shadowfiend
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 13:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King
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Silkelock wrote: Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
I would argue it is a catch 22 on that. Introducing new critters we have to take into account those extremeley powerful builds that can solo bosses. In my mind the server should not cater to those who just go lone ranger all day to hunt bosses. Creatures at those level should be such a challenge it would be impossible to do it alone. Some years back I'd agree, but with the lower numbers in our playerbase, disappearing or relocated hunting areas (20-25 is a pain in the ass, I've had to use DC's and jobs only almost to get my character Lyelanna to 24) Also, I think everyone should be able to grind to get gold and epic loot, not just the power builds. Those that like to grind will find a way to do it anyway, those that don't, wouldn't. Point is, "rp builds" and weaker builds should be able to get rich to, if they spend time and effort in doing so.
_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition
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Pony
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 13:55 PM |
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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Robert is a paladin great smiter, build with combat mechanics in the fore front. He has eight dexterity and eight constitution, which are reflected by his damaged leg and his middle age. He can solo the majority of the amian boss monsters, and the majority of the dungeons. He is viable both in pvm and pvp encounters. Besides his 30ranks in ride, all his feats and skills grant him a combat advantage.
Ahly is a cleric of lolth, build with non-combat mechanics in the fore front. She has no stats lower than 10, 13charisma and 16int that grant her no combat advantage. She has max ranks in lore, and the epic spell focus divination. It would likely be an incredible chore for her to beat a select amount of the boss monsters or epic dungeons solo, and likely cost more gold than earn it. Instead of taking a rogue for a tumble and umd dump, I prefered other skills like lore and the ranger class for track.
I do not make a distinction between the two. Both focus on their respective talents on this rpg server. They are both very much roleplay builds in my mind. When it comes to DM Events, Ahly actually can be of far greater use. Robert can not track a creature, he can not cast divinations to uncover the location of a vital item, he can not make sense of mysterious runes. That, and there is usually no shortage of meat shields who bash stuff for you.
Why does it matter that Ahly can not grind to get gold and epic loot? It is not her skill set. But if that is something you as a player want to enjoy and you just are not so good with the mechanics, there is now a subforum devoted for you being able to find builds or ask for feedback on your own. There are tons of viable builds focused on the PvM challenges the server provides for interrested players, and min-maxing is not required for that. If you do however want to give your character that extra edge by min-maxing, then what you gain in that departments, you will likely lose in another.
Not to mention, the dungeons will have an increasing amount of challenges focused on non-combat skills.
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Murex
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 14:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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I agree that there is no one way to represent a negative ability score, just as long as that score is represented as a negative in some way. Obviously, the more detrimental the negative is, the more pronounced it should be in role-play. There shouldn't be harsh consequences for perceiving a character with a negative score or two to be 100% wrong in how those scores are played out (unless they are not played as negative at all), and there should be no harsh consequences at least without first observing a character play for a good amount of time to see how those scores are represented in rp- or maybe just asking a player how the negative stats are represented. Shadowfiend wrote: Point is, "rp builds" and weaker builds should be able to get rich to, if they spend time and effort in doing so. They can. Any level 30 character can grind somewhere for gold. When it comes to epic loot, rp can be enough- not just using dream coins for unique items, but from other characters those characters befriend. I said it before- there is no unfairness. All characters have the same potential, even if some builds are made just for role-play.
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Fennewald!
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 15:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2014
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LetumLux wrote: Ah, I think I may understand the reaction better. This wasn't a cause and effect thing. The announcement was going to happen regardless, and was not in response to any of the builds that had been posted when the subforum was opened. Ahh, thanks for the clarification! It definitely seemed that this was in response to his builds, but I see that was just a misconception on my part. That said, the announcement still makes me nervous: On the one hand, RPing my character's 8 cha has been a hilarious blast for me, and overcoming his wisdom modifier is basically my whole current plot arc. So there's lots of fun RPing negative modifiers. On the other hand, I've never made a character that turned out in RP as I expected up front. I make a build, get the character in the world, and he evolves. His personality only emerges after weeks or months, and in response to other people and situations. It always ends up being a different RP experience than I planned for, and almost always much more fun. This sometimes leads to a difference between how the RP turned out, and the initial build. This is where enforcing the numbers over how RP naturally developed becomes a potential problem. I believe everyone is better off if we choose the way RP arose rather than numbers on a stat sheet from character creation. I know that rebuilds can be requested. This process is often slow and nerve wracking, sometimes humiliating and infuriating, always intrusive, and in rare cases, ends up with blowback in terms of characters getting redacted or changes rejected. Not that I have a better system, but it means that many people just keep the build they originally made rather than subject themselves to this process. This is our free time, after all. It doesn't seem in the server's best interest to refuse characters in this type of situation the ability to partake fully in events and other situations where their RP-stat mismatch might be held against them. Just my opinion, and thanks in advance for the continued discussion.
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 15:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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As someone that's played amia since the split off from Arelith I can vouch for the dms that this has always been a rule and I've always considered it while I minmax my characters to the high heavens. They aren't trying to make you feel bad, this is an rp server, no character is perfect, rp their flaws it'll help you get a better and more enjoyable character. My favorite pc I've played was basically fun because of his flaw. Rogue type, average charisma, high intelligence, lower than average wisdom. He was a helpless womanizer romancing anything that walked with two legs, weather or not it was going to kill him, even if logically it was a trap, he would still go for it because he just couldn't help it.
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Ice
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 17:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Location: Usa
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Glim wrote: Silkelock wrote: Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
I would argue it is a catch 22 on that. Introducing new critters we have to take into account those extremeley powerful builds that can solo bosses. In my mind the server should not cater to those who just go lone ranger all day to hunt bosses. Creatures at those level should be such a challenge it would be impossible to do it alone. This is where I'll disagree. There are ways to make encounters challenging without requiring a certain level of stats. Anyone who has tested the Labyrinth with me, can attest to this. This is the part where I argue that Massacre is not live yet But going up to Quote: Creatures at those level should be such a challenge it would be impossible to do it alone. this specific part, I agree entirely. It should be mechanically impossible to do it alone, but how can you do that without actually encouraging players to build a little harder? I'm relatively new in the server, but I heard the legend of areas full of time-stopping casters and hellballing monsters, and in those legends it was depicted to me that people figured a way to get past those by powerbuilding. meretricious wrote: After a DM explains expectations for RP negative stats, what is next? No one can run during an adventure? We need to talk to NPCs? Magic bags aren't realistic? We need to eat and drink water? How long until you throw a description of what a "rogue" or a "wizard" should be role played like and insist on it? Please allow a player to come on and tell everyone the right way to play a monk next with a massive description from a D&D book that leaves no consideration for cultural influences that produce uniqueness... Wait, wait, hold your pants there. Amia has this strange mentality of freedom that is somewhere between Sinfar and Arelith. You can pull almost any weird concept that you want, but you are still expected to justify it and follow a few standards. These standards are common sense, and what is expected to be the natural margins of the character; you stride too far away from that, and your character stops making sense by rules or the simple nature that we are based on DnD rather than completely free RP. Monks are expected to be lawful. Clerics promote their god. Aasimars have a natural inclination to dislike tieflings. This is nothing new. This is not anybody looming over your shoulder breathing on your neck controlling every single one of your actions. We simply play with certain standards in mind, and DnD offers more than enough opportunities for those that break the mold, and so do Amia (with the proper permissions, that is).
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Blue Moon
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 18:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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Ice wrote:
The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
Not trying to like, single you out or even contradict you but why this? I just read it and it makes no sense to me because it sounds untrue. Theres an obvious solution. 1) You're not supposed to be able to solo anyways so 2) Just bring people along with you who CAN hit that obviously like, a fighter. Buff their Ab with your cleric or mage. Thats fundamental to d&d finding the right party. If you fail you go out and roleplay finding someone who can hit the monster. None of that 'requires' powerbuilding, powerbuilding is just the easy way out. Quote: Planning your build is the bane of RP because you are setting a straight path for your character, something that you are not to be dissuaded from unless the extreme happens. I love you for saying this because it finally put into words a sentiment I have been feeling for all the years Ive played on any server. The characters I plan for never last. I get bored jn my own cage Ive built. My most successful ones, I picked a class and just jumped IG. Otherwise you end up disappointing your own goals. You get bored because you just made a lifetime (1 to 3 RL years) of personal decisions for your character in a single night of binge planning. _______________ Anyway, not to derail. I love flaws too. They arent even always flaws. They can be just as charming and useful as a power stat. Ya most people like wish fulfillment and nobody wants a 6 cha fighter when they are suddenly chatting up the sorceress. The only real argument I have come across some people NOT wanting to RP a bad stat is stat vs. actual experience. IE RL IG knowledge vs. an intelligence roll. Thats only when stats seem unfair. I'm new to this server. My lore 30 mage thatis a few weeks old but "raised in cordor" should not know more about Cordor because I read books and put that in my background like easy, than a lore 10 or INT 10 guard PC who serves cordor guard and has been playing 3 years, plot development in city, and practiced his mind. There are a lot of holes of human ability nwn stat chart has. A wisdom 10 PC has certainly gained some invisible wisdom pts after years of experience IN THAT AREA that the math limjtations of their character sheet can't show. But they definitely should start off unwise at level 1. You get players who feel through their years of character growth now have the right to roleplay that stat as being higher than it actually is. Usually this is with non physical stats of course. Most of all remember flaws and their mistakes can actually drive or create an entertaining plot/ storyline for you and those around you. Not when you want to save the child from the bears mouth mind you. But a flaw, a mistake, can be a catalyst in disguise. A curse for your character but a blessing for the player who wants development, drama,attention, comedy or..heh..realism. DMs will respect you for it too. Edit: and i dont think anyone is trying to tell others how to roleplay a stat. Merely that you will be respected if you figure out a way to use your flaws to roleplay as much as all of us use our main stat to roleplay. It isnt our fault, its how most of us were taught. We look at high stat and say " That is my character" we dont look at low or second low and say "that is my character" Pls forgive awful punctuation I am typing on a tablet _________________ Playing Jovianne UndonDevout of The Healer " [SocksOnFeet] Arabella Amakiir: [Talk] That girl got buns, hon. " 
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Glim
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 18:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia
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Ice wrote: Glim wrote: This is where I'll disagree. There are ways to make encounters challenging without requiring a certain level of stats. Anyone who has tested the Labyrinth with me, can attest to this. This is the part where I argue that Massacre is not live yet End of January
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 20:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB). Actually those encounters are built for group play. Soloing them wasn't intended in their design so I don't consider consider citing boss hunting as the state of balance on this server. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Ice
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Posted: Sun, Dec 28 2014, 20:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Location: Usa
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Blue Moon wrote: Ice wrote:
The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB).
Not trying to like, single you out or even contradict you but why this? I just read it and it makes no sense to me because it sounds untrue. Theres an obvious solution. 1) You're not supposed to be able to solo anyways so 2) Just bring people along with you who CAN hit that obviously like, a fighter. Buff their Ab with your cleric or mage. Thats fundamental to d&d finding the right party. If you fail you go out and roleplay finding someone who can hit the monster. None of that 'requires' powerbuilding, powerbuilding is just the easy way out. My point here is that, after counts, somebody has to have the high stat to hit the monster to begin with (or a completely different method!). And even if you aren't supposed to solo, there's always the weapon master who makes everything look easy. I've been in a lot of events where the expected stats to fight were just far beyond what my character was able, and that may be fine at some point; I play a character that is hardly useful in combat one way or another because I decided to play him as what he was, and not what I felt like building. It's been a constant source of a bittersweet experience since the very beginning. Now, in character sheet my lizard has 10 of wisdom, but I've RPing him as both able of things ranging from 6 to 16. Understanding people is labelled as part of the wisdom, but my character doesn't blindly understand people. Everything he manages to catch, he does from a "I've been there" perspective, or something that rings a bell from a more logical point of view rather than empathizing with a feeling. In the other hand, he's a very emotional creature who acts impulsively on his feelings, against the sense of self preservation or even what looks like common sense, and that makes him what he is and fun to play, and not just his higher scores. This is the weight that evens the balance, and justifies the odd range of perception of my character - as an example, that is. bobofwestoregonusa wrote: Ice wrote: The server is built in a way that encourages players to actually powerbuild.
(Good luck hitting Dominagus with less than 50 of AB). Actually those encounters are built for group play. Soloing them wasn't intended in their design so I don't consider consider citing boss hunting as the state of balance on this server. Perhaps I was thinking only in boss hunting when I made that statement, looking back at it. Glim wrote: Ice wrote: Glim wrote: This is where I'll disagree. There are ways to make encounters challenging without requiring a certain level of stats. Anyone who has tested the Labyrinth with me, can attest to this. This is the part where I argue that Massacre is not live yet End of January 
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