AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Just a quick post to make sure everyone sees the updated version of the Regional Listing here, and to take the opportunity for me to answer any questions you might have about it.

In a nutshell, this is both to concentrate the Staff's efforts (DMs, Designers, all) into truly enriching our most populated locations, and to be up front with you about where you as a player and your characters, can have the most impact upon the course of the server.

Oh. Ooh. I've got a couple, looking over this.

1: Who do we contact about areas that don't actually have a DM assigned to them? Wharftown comes to mind as a (reasonably) significant area with no one assigned to it. At least, the most significant out of all of them in the unstaffed list.

2: Is Underport still slated for removal? I didn't actually know it was, but I find that a little odd given that it's the only real Underdark area on Amia A. It's not super-popular by any means, but I see significantly more RP there than I do in Wharftown or Gulorand. (Not super familiar with the latter, though.)

3: So, if something urgent comes up regarding one of these areas and the only staff online are ones not assigned to that area, can we ask them questions about it? Like, say something came up in Winya Ravana, but only Kobra, Bright, and Hudson were online. Could we still ask them for help with smaller things if it's needed?

That was more than a couple I lied Iapologise.

Any DM can do smaller things like posess the guards and such and help out with things of course.

The "big" NPC are just usually avoided by the "non area DM" as they often have their own personality and it would be odd if known characters sometimes act very differently because we all have very different play styles. That's NPC like the Justicar, the Voice, Duke Montgomery, etc...

Tyrak wrote:

1: Who do we contact about areas that don't actually have a DM assigned to them? Wharftown comes to mind as a (reasonably) significant area with no one assigned to it. At least, the most significant out of all of them in the unstaffed list.

In short, contact your favorite DM

and if they aren't certain about how to help you with what you're after, they'll point you in the direction of the one who can

Tyrak wrote:

2: Is Underport still slated for removal? I didn't actually know it was, but I find that a little odd given that it's the only real Underdark area on Amia A. It's not super-popular by any means, but I see significantly more RP there than I do in Wharftown or Gulorand. (Not super familiar with the latter, though.)

Yes, the plotline to remove Underport has already begun. Don't worry though, the Underdark is getting some serious love in the near future

Tyrak wrote:

3: So, if something urgent comes up regarding one of these areas and the only staff online are ones not assigned to that area, can we ask them questions about it? Like, say something came up in Winya Ravana, but only Kobra, Bright, and Hudson are online. Could we still ask them for help with smaller things if it's needed?

You can certainly ask whoever's online, they just might not know the answer and/or may or may not be comfortable running it depending on how "big" it is. Same as now really. This list just tells you who your primary "go-to" people are for a given area.

*edit* Amarice ninja'd me!

Is the entire Abyss getting the axe, or merely the city of Zanshibon itself?

Kenneth wrote:

Is the entire Abyss getting the axe, or merely the city of Zanshibon itself?

on this same line of thought i'm assuming it's only the city of underport getting the axe rather than its surrounding area because that area is kind of important

Don't worry, I got you scalies in my nest now.

LetumLux wrote:

Don't worry, I got you scalies in my nest now.

Kenneth wrote:

Is the entire Abyss getting the axe, or merely the city of Zanshibon itself?

Time, and plot, will tell

I don't want to give too much away.

Rest assured there will still be an epic abyss hunting ground regardless.

I've been doing Wharftown things recentlyish, and was marked down in the old one for such. Can ask for any really in the smaller towns though likely. And if it's small things, other DM's can do things in the various cities if it's needed.

Rigela is also the go-to-DM of Howness and the general Forrstakkr-area really. Certainly Howness due to how much stuff has been lately established there under her supervision (key npcs and the way of governance).

One (obviously biased) issue:

Why is Caraigh a tertiary settlement? Though it has a different vibe than Wiltun, if we're talking about consolidating resources it is influenced only by a group of players who already have a Secondary settlement (Wiltun), and sees little to no PC activity. It seems odd that it would get Tertiary status and Wharftown would not, when it has been the historical focus of major plots / several major battles during the war and the only "Quest" settlement on A to have enough PC activity to get a start point in the Travel Agency.

It may be pointless bringing this up as it seems the course of action has already been decided, but a word of caution anyway: this system by its nature elevates certain player groups over others, because we cannot simply ignore or erase character's histories. It validates the roleplay of groups who were already involved with the Primary and Secondary settlements and invalidates the roleplay of those who concentrated their efforts elsewhere. It isn't enough to say that it's a "guide" for where we should focus our attention, as our character's previous choices will prevent us from focusing in certain places, choices which were played out with no knowledge of this new system.

If some warning would have been given before implementation, I think things would have been very different for a lot of characters (including my own), and I find it a little disingenuous to place OOC restrictions on the server having given players no OOC warning to adapt.

This is an excellent initiative on the whole. My opinion shouldn't hold much weight on this, but I agree with Alanna on Wharftown in particular: it has historically been a very core element of the island thematically and geopolitically. It complements the flavor of the island's other settlements, fitting in despite its distinct personality. I would go so far as to say its relevance is greater than any of the racial settlements, save perhaps Bendir Dale.

However, I imagine the "quest" category primarily prevents PC initiatives that would break the quest lines. Campaigning for walls and racial gates, then, would be a bad idea. I don't see why other kind of input would be discouraged. I may be wrong, but that seems sensible.

I'm a little bit curious with how "railroaded" these plots will be to remove the areas. Will the characters be able to affect the outcome at least a bit, or is everything set in stone already?

AlannaMolov wrote:

It may be pointless bringing this up as it seems the course of action has already been decided, but a word of caution anyway: this system by its nature elevates certain player groups over others, because we cannot simply ignore or erase character's histories. It validates the roleplay of groups who were already involved with the Primary and Secondary settlements and invalidates the roleplay of those who concentrated their efforts elsewhere. It isn't enough to say that it's a "guide" for where we should focus our attention, as our character's previous choices will prevent us from focusing in certain places, choices which were played out with no knowledge of this new system.

IronAngel wrote:

However, I imagine the "quest" category primarily prevents PC initiatives that would break the quest lines. Campaigning for walls and racial gates, then, would be a bad idea. I don't see why other kind of input would be discouraged. I may be wrong, but that seems sensible.

I've got similar concerns to the above.

As someone who roleplays in one of the now "Quest" areas, I'm not sure what this initiative means to me. On one hand, one of my main roleplay hubs (the Three Steps Academy) is a faction, however said faction is based in Shadowscape which is now classified as a Quest area.

Is being in a Quest area going to hinder the faction's efforts at all?

AlannaMolov wrote:

It may be pointless bringing this up as it seems the course of action has already been decided, but a word of caution anyway: this system by its nature elevates certain player groups over others, because we cannot simply ignore or erase character's histories. It validates the roleplay of groups who were already involved with the Primary and Secondary settlements and invalidates the roleplay of those who concentrated their efforts elsewhere. It isn't enough to say that it's a "guide" for where we should focus our attention, as our character's previous choices will prevent us from focusing in certain places, choices which were played out with no knowledge of this new system.

My thoughts exactly, but I also understand this course of action.

There are certain places such as Zanshibon or Nes'ek that were quintessential in character and server histories, but their existence hardly made much sense (esspecially when Nes'ek was on Amia....).

One request here though: When you remove these areas, please leave a tiny bit of memory about the place that characters can find IG.

However, you have my love for planning to insert the Moonshaes! One step closer to the Mainland! Keept it up and we will reach Waterdeep by the end of 2015!

Glim will have to explain further, or correct me if I'm mistaken, but "quest area" means that is an area where legs of the new quest tree will, or are planned, to kick off from. This should not affect PC efforts in those areas, afaik, it is simply a list of 'necessary' areas that may or may not be considered "RP hubs".

Being listed as a quest hub doesn't mean that PC efforts will be ignored, and nothing will ever happen there. Far from it. What it does mean is that we intend to provide greater focus to the other three categories in order. There will be greater freedoms to affect change in the Primary, Secondary and Tertiary hubs as they will be more fluid and less concerned with "breaking things". Breaking things might even be encouraged

So it's essentially a heads up to folks that if you want to be on the cutting edge of server changes, you might wanna maneuver yourself into the Primary or Secondary areas. If you want a happy middle ground, Secondary or Tertiary. Or if you mostly want to do your own thing, Tertiary or Quest.

It's always been an issue (even since I joined the server) that certain areas (like Guldorand) already received far less attention than others, and to a player who doesn't yet know what areas fall where, that could be very disheartening when you bust your ass to get some changes going, only to have them fall on deaf ears. So we're making the effort now to show you exactly what level of involvement from the team you can expect in what areas.

Caraigh is on there because while there isn't a bevy of activity at present, there will be once things kick off again there. Bear in mind that the list takes into account future plans for areas, not just how things sit currently.

Similarly places like Wharftown or Howness? Ya they might be relegated to Quest hubs in the future, but we recognize that there is good PC activity there right now and interest in building the places up a bit. So the intent there will be to work with the PCs when we get to those areas, to build them into the quest hubs together, to collaborate on the project if you will with your IC and our OOC.

As for area removals and railroading, yes and no. They will be removed, that much is fixed. But there will be aspects of the removal process, plotlines, NPCs, etc. that can be influenced and played around with as the process takes place. So some of it is set in stone, and some of it is very much open to player involvement.

Will there be any "go to" DM's for the factions, such as the five listed on the forum?

Existing factions generally already have a "go-to" DM, and new factions can contact their favored DM and either they can be the "go-to" or they can suggest someone with the time to do so.

Oh and all this said of course, if there's any extra info or clarification that you feel should be added to the listing, please do let me know. What's obvious to me and/or the team might not be obvious to you, or to newer players, so I'm all for working together to get the info out there that people need and want to see

Quote:

Similarly places like Wharftown or Howness? Ya they might be relegated to Quest hubs in the future, but we recognize that there is good PC activity there right now and interest in building the places up a bit. So the intent there will be to work with the PCs when we get to those areas, to build them into the quest hubs together, to collaborate on the project if you will with your IC and our OOC.

Thanks for clarifying, Glim. My initial concern stemmed from the fact that it rather sounded (at least to me) that if you weren't in a secondary or tertiary settlement, you were pretty much screwed as far as trying to change the world at all, and that really is the draw for this kind of game - to see that your actions can really directly impact the world, which is something modern games just really haven't gotten the hang of yet.

It doesn't seem as cut and dry as that, though, which is encouraging. As long as the DM team remains flexible, relatively transparent and open to player input to some extent, it seems like this is a change that could go a long way to kicking some energy back into the server. My caution about suddenly giving several PCs a lot more power than others remains, though - this change has essentially drawn a line in the sand and went "these are the movers and the shakers!" by virtue of geography. I don't think it was intended to favor certain players over others, as this is something that was meant to help the entire server and I see no bias in the way these areas were picked. However, you do have to consider the fact that in the scramble to "maneuver" your characters into these more important settlements, you've created a race where a lot of people are miles ahead of others, and not because they did any more or less work than others - they just happened to pick the "right" place to do work in. Just something to be mindful of going forward.

Glim wrote:

Oh and all this said of course, if there's any extra info or clarification that you feel should be added to the listing, please do let me know. What's obvious to me and/or the team might not be obvious to you, or to newer players, so I'm all for working together to get the info out there that people need and want to see

It would be nice to put up Rigela as the "Primary DM" on Howness, due to what I said earlier. Will be easier for people to work with that area too. She was also the Forrstakkr DM on the previous list.

Alanna has pretty much echoed my concerns about the listing (as my only character has worked the past year and will continue to probably work in a "quest" hub too) but your assurances are warmly noted.

I indeed also hope we will be able to influence settlements slated for inevitable deletion, for example what will happen to their population etc.

I'm going to stir the pot here a bit. I must say I am rather disappointed to see the options for relatively safe havens for openly evil PCs being cut down to pretty much Tarkuul (who isn't always entirely receptive to all versions of evil to begin with).

AlannaMolov wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, Glim. My initial concern stemmed from the fact that it rather sounded (at least to me) that if you weren't in a secondary or tertiary settlement, you were pretty much screwed as far as trying to change the world at all, and that really is the draw for this kind of game - to see that your actions can really directly impact the world, which is something modern games just really haven't gotten the hang of yet.

It doesn't seem as cut and dry as that, though, which is encouraging. As long as the DM team remains flexible, relatively transparent and open to player input to some extent, it seems like this is a change that could go a long way to kicking some energy back into the server. My caution about suddenly giving several PCs a lot more power than others remains, though - this change has essentially drawn a line in the sand and went "these are the movers and the shakers!" by virtue of geography. I don't think it was intended to favor certain players over others, as this is something that was meant to help the entire server and I see no bias in the way these areas were picked. However, you do have to consider the fact that in the scramble to "maneuver" your characters into these more important settlements, you've created a race where a lot of people are miles ahead of others, and not because they did any more or less work than others - they just happened to pick the "right" place to do work in. Just something to be mindful of going forward.

You're right in that PCs involved in those settlements have a bit of a leg up... but they always did, tbh. Primary and Secondary (and even to some extent Tertiary) hubs were categorized based just as much on current activity (both of "home" PCs and "passing by" PCs) as much as plot and "server needs". So they were already in those positions for the most part. You'll also find in the coming months that with greater focus on these hubs from the DMs, there will be more "fleshing out" of gangs, churches, merchant houses, and other influential groups that will broach plenty of new opportunities for people to get involved that aren't necessarily already by default.

T0mc4t89 wrote:

It would be nice to put up Rigela as the "Primary DM" on Howness, due to what I said earlier. Will be easier for people to work with that area too. She was also the Forrstakkr DM on the previous list.

Alanna has pretty much echoed my concerns about the listing (as my only character has worked the past year and will continue to probably work in a "quest" hub too) but your assurances are warmly noted.

I indeed also hope we will be able to influence settlements slated for inevitable deletion, for example what will happen to their population etc.

I'll look at adding back in the "overseeing" DMs for the Quest hubs too, maybe in parenthesis or something. And yes, if you look at the events taking place in Nes'ek, you'll notice that people have already begun to get their hooks in, for instance. Now that particular ship has pretty much already boarded, but similar opportunities will exist in the other coming removals through the various plots.

kolde wrote:

I'm going to stir the pot here a bit. I must say I am rather disappointed to see the options for relatively safe havens for openly evil PCs being cut down to pretty much Tarkuul (who isn't always entirely receptive to all versions of evil to begin with).

Erm... same as they've always been? Tarkuul, Wiltun, L'Obsul, Nec'perya. The only ones you're losing is Underport (which wasn't much more than a marketplace anyway and really no smart evil would use since the Illithid just mindread your plans

) and Zanshibon (which really the Abyss shouldn't be a picknick anyway). Unless I'm missing something?

West Cordor seems to fix the issue of needing a secondary hub for evil to thrive.

That too

though I count that as more of a "do what you want cus a pirate is free" kind of evil than an "outright" evil.

The sever spread is not a problem that has solutions without drawbacks. The server spread was often raised as a serious concern, because of the resulting difficulty to find roleplay. The way it is being addressed now is very respectful towards the players and their efforts and roleplay.

Instead of cutting down hubs left and right to force a stronger condensed playerbase, the approach here is to encourage a stronger presence for the primary hub. Instead or just removing dm assistance in all but three hubs, it will just be a little more concentrated in four cases. With more dm and designer attention on the primary hub, there will be a rise of interest and activity – which results in players also providing more rp for each other. The stories of the characters will not be as geographically cut off from one another, as it will also encourage more visits from other hubs to the primary one.

The few places that will get put on the chopping block, like Underport, will not all result in a full loss of their themes or the roleplay opportunities. As Glim hinted, the Underdark is getting some love and Underport will be merged with another locale in a way. So “evil” in this case is not as much losing something, as getting something improved.

Glim wrote:

Erm... same as they've always been? Tarkuul, Wiltun, L'Obsul, Nec'perya. The only ones you're losing is Underport (which wasn't much more than a marketplace anyway and really no smart evil would use since the Illithid just mindread your plans

) and Zanshibon (which really the Abyss shouldn't be a picknick anyway). Unless I'm missing something?

Sorry, tired so perhaps I'm not getting my thoughts down quite as clearly as they are in my head. But all the places remaining are already pretty heavily geared with their own factions, and if you try to go in with a new faction, or to plan up a new faction that does not fit in with their ideals, you're not going to be welcome. Underport, while not exactly a great place to plot taking over the world, and the Abyss both allowed areas that one could escape/flee to, that they did not have to worry overly much about stepping on some other major factions toes, or being tossed out for bringing too much negative attention to the area.

And while I know I can't see all the plans and larger picture, I guess I just don't understand what all the changes are actually going to server to accomplish in the end that the massive time/energy needed to do them couldn't be better served in other fields. None of this is meant to be derogatory or anything like that, I just don't get it.

No worries Kolde! It seems like you have some more broad questions / concerns about the server direction in general than just this one thing. Maybe write up a PM for me with your concerns once you've had some rest and we can figure things out a little better.

666WaysToHell wrote:

West Cordor seems to fix the issue of needing a secondary hub for evil to thrive.

Come to West Cordor. There will be punch and pie.

Updated with current DMs for Quest hubs and Removal locations.

IMHO west cordor has a *lot* of potential, If you visit now you might get a free cookie laced with questionable ingredients.

(But adding my two cents in West cordor is developing well so give it a try people!)

To focus efforts so much seems like a blow to dispersity in characters, but then again I figured this list isn't completely set in stone? Also I hope the disappearing shops will be accounted for? Getting decent gear at any lvl range seems like a pain to me right now.

Shadowfiend wrote:

To focus efforts so much seems like a blow to dispersity in characters, but then again I figured this list isn't completely set in stone? Also I hope the disappearing shops will be accounted for? Getting decent gear at any lvl range seems like a pain to me right now.

From that regional listing post:

Glim wrote:

...and will take into consideration the necessity of moving certain hunting areas, merchants and other needed attributes into other settlements before removal.

And of course the design team is still going through the lootbins (and then merchants) server-wide as well in between other projects.

You're right that it narrows the locations in which greater percentages of the activity will be seen (both DM activity and conversely PC activity) but with greater activity in those areas comes a branching into different aspects of those locations. Gangs, churches (varied faiths) merchant houses, mercenary groups, guards, scholarly groups, all have different diversity to offer a variety of characters. So I think overall we'll find that the variety won't really be stifled, it will just be more concentrated, which would be a good thing.

Glim wrote:

Shadowfiend wrote:

To focus efforts so much seems like a blow to dispersity in characters, but then again I figured this list isn't completely set in stone? Also I hope the disappearing shops will be accounted for? Getting decent gear at any lvl range seems like a pain to me right now.

From that regional listing post:

Glim wrote:

...and will take into consideration the necessity of moving certain hunting areas, merchants and other needed attributes into other settlements before removal.

And of course the design team is still going through the lootbins (and then merchants) server-wide as well in between other projects.

You're right that it narrows the locations in which greater percentages of the activity will be seen (both DM activity and conversely PC activity) but with greater activity in those areas comes a branching into different aspects of those locations. Gangs, churches (varied faiths) merchant houses, mercenary groups, guards, scholarly groups, all have different diversity to offer a variety of characters. So I think overall we'll find that the variety won't really be stifled, it will just be more concentrated, which would be a good thing.

I like this idea very much. The divide in the player base will lessen a smidge, I think. +1

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