AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Wound and Healing System

If the system is optional, I can actually see it being counter-productive: our ultimate goal should be to apply the same real danger to everyone, and future attempts to address this issue may be dismissed on the basis that we already have an optional system. But optional is not good enough, obviously. Just like a survival horror game isn't horrifying if you can just console some new rations or turn off monster spawns when you feel like it, the threat of PvP consequences is not real if you can opt out.

Amia is already suffering from pluralism. People have been crying for a unified direction for years, but nobody has been willing to put their foot down and set the course yet. The system sends the message that it's OK that everyone keeps playing their own game in a public sandbox. Well, it isn't. We should all play the game by the same rules, and we should all be on the same page of the story.

Don't personally see any point in PvM penalties, since it causes more balance issues, but whatever. We can deal.

As for griefing: I've played servers where respawning after PvP was not permitted (=potential permadeath), and there were no issues.

Hehe. We discussed this in the car on our way to Opustus

Otherwise I agree. Sandbox is good, but not great.

Might be beneficial then to try to have the best of both worlds. Establish the system as optional, but for a trial period of 6 months or so. At the end of that, we have to decide to keep it and apply it to all people or scrap it altogether.

Yep.

Trial and error. We do to little of that on amia, expecting the perfect system from scratch.

The last time we put in a knowingly unfinished system, monsters stopped dropping gp and there was a month-long rage-storm.

I can see the virtue in striving to get it right the first time.

Does Amia have any rules or guidelines about how to approach healing and death on the server? Have I just not found them? Or are players really free to pick what they want in any given scenario?

I can't really find many rules or even guidelines about mechanics vs. Roleplay on Amia. This might be intentional, giving players complete freedom to roleplay their characters how they want, and complete control over what happens to them. But as someone that isn't at all knowledgeable about DnD rules/lore, I am left feeling very lost.

As an example: my character received a few broken bones and a concussion. A cleric comes along and decides to do a greater restoration or heal, and assured me that I am now all better. How do I approach this scenario? I haven't really found any rules on the forums or in my journal to help me out. Mechanically, my health has returned to full. Does my character pick herself off the ground and pretend nothing happened? Or do I make the other player feel invalidated by ignoring the heal spell they used and act as though it helped, but didn't "fix" my character's injuries? This works vice versa, by the way, when someone is trying to hurt a character, and the player chooses to shrug off the damage by quickly downing a potion or by using a health kit that miraculously cures all ailments.

Pony wrote:

If you prefer to engage other people who have a likeminded wish for this type of conflict rp / pvp that is fully understandable. I doubt anyone can say that they do not have preferences of who to rp with, in an acceptable fashion. Which for clairity's sake is not the same as being exclusivly-cliquey, not being welcoming to newer players or not accepting consequences when it comes from players you might not enjoy to engage with as much.

I support heavier consequences, but I have never had an issue with people that prefer a lighter approach to injuries and death. I want to be inclusive, but I really, really do not like making someone feel like I am ignoring their roleplay. And to be perfectly honest, I don't like it when my roleplay is ignored either. I want everyone to be able to roleplay the way they want, but how do I approach scenarios where my roleplay consistently conflicts with others? I want to roleplay a stab to the gutt, but my party is impatiently wondering why I don't just use a health kit so we can continue on our way.

What is the answer to this? Do I temporarily put aside my own idea of how I want to roleplay so that I can better fit into the community? Or do I alienate certain groups and form a clique of like-minded people? I find myself really struggling with this. And what about PvP? I have avoided it like the plague, not because I don't enjoy conflict, but because I feel these awkward scenarios will only be intensified.

I am very much in favor of an optional wound/death system, but I can't help but feel there is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed.

I agree that this wound system should be tailored only to PvP, but it should be mandatory, IMO.

If you don't want the potential to have negative consequences, think twice, and don't PvP.

There's not supposed to be a green light to just attack people and not give a crap if you lose. To me, that's one of the core problems in Amia. Death means zilch and people treat their lives accordingly.

If you get griefed, report it to a DM, take screenshots, and they will be banned and your "consequence" will just as easily be removed. No different than how it is handled now.

Liz wrote:

The last time we put in a knowingly unfinished system, monsters stopped dropping gp and there was a month-long rage-storm.

I can see the virtue in striving to get it right the first time.

Wrong!
It was a means to counter the raging inflation: The un-intended side-effect was that low levels and early hunting became nearly impossible. To much gold output, to little input.
The system that followed was the buycap which has been largely successful.

Trial and error

PvP only, yes.

I would like it if each injury has a timer, and a heal potion can't remove injuries- only heal kits or restorations.

Liz wrote:

The last time we put in a knowingly unfinished system, monsters stopped dropping gp and there was a month-long rage-storm.

I can see the virtue in striving to get it right the first time.

Yeah, sorry.

I didn't mean to call anyone out.

Dead wrote:

Also, only base healing skill should be counted, no items allowed.

A good point about "pocket healers" but for those of us who are dedicated healers using gear found/bought/crafted as well as Knight Commander bonuses would there be a way to allow us to benefit from restricted gear that has UMD set to high to be used by those restricted.

Like the various Salandran items for sale at the Temple of instance? Restrict them by Salandra/Ilmater (and other healer gods maybe) and by class "Cleric" set the UMD score at like 1 billion (

) and allow other healer type items likewise restricted by request via the normal request process.

Would this be doable?

In regards to the KC Healing bonus would this be eligible for these rules or if not by default can they be unlocked by having the healing bonus scale in relation to Cleric levels?

A Knight Commander with 20 CHA has +25 heal from Medicant, for healing wounds this bonus to be relevant to any Cleric levels somehow, maybe +1 heal from KC per Cleric level or if it has to be split by the CHA bonus +1 CHA bonus for every five Cleric levels

Cleric 10 / KC 5 (Assuming CHA 20+) would have healing bonus for healing wounds of +10 from Medicant (+1 per Cleric level or +1 CHA bonus of +5 heal per five Cleric levels x two lots of five)

Cleric 25 / KC 5 (Assuming CHA 20+) would have full +25 bonus for healing wounds from Medicant (+1 per Cleric level or +1 CHA bonus of +5 heal per five Cleric levels x five lots of five)

Ham fisted examples meh but I hope you see where I'm going!

Also this system should be server wide, mandatory and for any death from any cause, give death meaning again regardless of cause, to many compromises to lazy pve occur in parties as it is. Its about time that bad parties were punished by Kelemvor for their insolence of dying and wanting to come back for free

*ahems* also means I can bump up my prices for healing on patrols

P.S. I do not like the idea of an NPC money sink, Money sinks don't sink much money anyway

However if there was to be a PVE and PVP versions of this system any such NPC should only be able to heal PVE wounds, player actions should be deal with by players or else rendering this system moot again by making it resolvable by a quick portal to the Temple pay your chunk change from the billions in reserve and get back to griefing *ahems* ~pvp~

I haven't read through the whole topic, but from what I have read I really like what I see. This is an amazing idea and I believe it will improve conflict between PC's greatly.

One thing that kind of confuses me though is the "type" of wounds inflicted. I can see getting beat up/killed by a strength based barbarian might break a bone or two, but what if I die from a wail of the banshee? Do I still break my leg? Do I suffer penalties to my saves? Am I less mobile and get less AC? What happens?

My suggestion is to include damage types into the process. Bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, fire, cold, electric, etc. I know the wounding system is still being discussed, and you do not want the topic to get to far into mechanics/cluttered and what not. But I thought that this was something that would have to be addressed right away as it has a lot to do with the consequences, and to help keep them IC.

I think a diversity in the wounds that can be taken by your character is a must. It would be very plain if every time your character lost in a fight that he broke his leg...

Anyways, I hope my sentence structure is okay and you can understand what I am trying to say, I'm sort of rushing to type this at the moment. Thanks for listening.

Cheers.

Great idea. I'm 100% behind it. But...

IronAngel wrote:

If the system is optional, I can actually see it being counter-productive: our ultimate goal should be to apply the same real danger to everyone

I agree with Iron. I can see the merits of it being optional for a while to help the last few bugs get caught in the net and so on, but after that I'd rather it was implemented across the board. Anyone who wants to duck out of being punished for death (and still being punished very mildly compared to some servers) is someone who can't handle the consequences of their actions. And yes, I've died to creatures at resets and due to lag and accidentally pressing the windows key, but these things happen. "Oh no, I've suffered an injury and need to roleplay with a healer, woe is me, this near-silent monster grinding was truly advancing our character's stories..."

As stated, it's not going to be manditory.

If you want extra immersion in your pve/ pvp that should be your choice and right and this system would cater nicely to that.

But you don't have the right to force consequences such as these in pvp on others unless they consent to it (and then they can enable the feature then and all is well.)

I don't really see why it should matter to you if others take extra penalties or not when they die in pve.
Immersion wise it may only mildly affect you and then only when they die a few times when hunting with you and if they aren't grouped with you it won't affect you at all.

If you don't want to pvp if it has less consequences for the other side then don't pvp with those that haven't enabled the feature. A polite tell should suffice to get the information needed.

So is it going to be implemented at all ...?

I hope so.

Quote:

But it will be a while off. I guess-timate I will begin looking into how to make this around October or November.

Pony, who will script it, wrote this a few posts up so as far as I can see it's still on the table!

Yep. Once I got my exam done in early September, I will have time again for a bit to play and design for Amia. I have quite a few area and dungeon updates on my list, as well as the hak update and the custom content I am making for the next hak release. Those take clear priority. So the earliest I will be able to start looking into it will be around October or November.

Given my scripting abilities are really beginner at best, the process of making this will involve a lot of work in actually learning how to script properly. Something I had planned to do anyway, to be able to actually help out Glim at some point and perhaps tackle things like the Job System. I can not make promises. Given how ambitious this is, I am really throwing myself into the deep end here. If I manage to actually make it work, I guess-timate that (at best) it will be done around spring next year.

Wound and Healing System - Topic Split

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