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Definitely, perhaps out of all sneakers, SD has the most reason to attack.

What if we didn't know they were an SD or a sneaker because theyre good at their job?

Just saying 'oh you cast light on me, bam pvp' is a very stupid reason, to be honest, and doesn't give you a way out as the rules dictate. Now, if you were told not to do something else there would be consequences (even if, in this case, they didn't say why) and you did it anways, then it's fair game because they warned you. Or vice versa, depending on who's the caster, lol

Quote:

Just saying 'oh you cast light on me, bam pvp' is a very stupid reason

For a Shadowdancer, this is just enough of a good reason as getting in to an argument with a Wizard who then begins to buff themselves and thinking they're about to PvP.

Then again this is just my opinion and a DM ruling > all.

It is, effectively, a debuff, and probably on-par with casting Darkness (which is considered hostile according to the rules).

If you don't know what class the enemy is I don't think it really excuses, better to keep the same standard. But if they have no reason to attack you, presumably they won't attack you.

Light is a touch-spell, so you would've to touch the person. Either you ask their consent, or you forcibly put your hand on them.

Or cast that funky spell that gives everyone in the area light, the name of which I forget.

mirvala- wrote:

... or you forcibly put your hand on them.

Obby.

Kamina wrote:

Or cast that funky spell that gives everyone in the area light, the name of which I forget.

Remember it, because that's pretty cool and I could see casting that more than I should.

Continual Flame/Light, have to BoT it to make it AoE.

And sorry but if I'm buffing people and casting Light spells and someone PvPs me for it, I'm reporting them. You have to consider every situation where Light can be cast on someone. If you're buffing people and using Light and someone goes ballistic without warning, it's a breach of the rules. If you are just randomly casting Light on people, that's different. However you still need to give someone an out. Otherwise I could PvP you just for accidentally bumping into me.

Naivatkal wrote:

Continual Flame/Light, have to BoT it to make it AoE.

And sorry but if I'm buffing people and casting Light spells and someone PvPs me for it, I'm reporting them. You have to consider every situation where Light can be cast on someone. If you're buffing people and using Light and someone goes ballistic without warning, it's a breach of the rules. If you are just randomly casting Light on people, that's different. However you still need to give someone an out. Otherwise I could PvP you just for accidentally bumping into me.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way suggesting SDs SHOULD kill someone if they get light cast on them, but it's definitely a provocative reason.

During a stand off, where no PvP was active yet, I entered HiPS. The mage, seeing this, cast that spell and light me up. All parties agreed that the PvP was valid given the reasons.

Getting light cast on you by someone buffing others, however, should be taken with a grain of salt. It is exactly the same as the example you gave, no one is expected to or should enter PvP by someone bumping in to them, the same should be said for a SDer getting accidentally lit up.

PvP is highly situational already, all I'm saying is someone casting Light CAN be seen as Hostile to a SD/sneaker and is a valid reason to be hostile, but again the situation in which is was cast obviously means what's happening. If you and a SD are having an argument and you cast Light on them, don't be surprised if they spring to attack you.

I'm getting that this is a contextual argument, much like buffing one's self is. If I'm doing it randomly, nobody cares. If I'm doing it in a tense or sketchy situation, or after threat or insult, I understand how casting ANYTHING can be seen as hostile, much like reaching for a weapon.

If I buff someone with a light randomly and they go "Stop that I'm a Shadow Dancer!" and I do it again, maybe he'll slap me for it. However, he should probably have light on him 24/7 if he's going to announce himself in such a way

Either way, my question has been answered.

Funny story: I put invisibility on a guy so I didn't have to look at his ugly mug, and he was threatened by others who didn't see me do it because they thought he was sneaking around invisible for some nefarious purpose. Good times.

I'm confused. Why are you casting Light spells on people while buffing them?

serbiris wrote:

I'm confused. Why are you casting Light spells on people while buffing them?

I have a character who is pretty frivolous with her magic and uses it for damn near anything. Best way to get her attention is to have as many spell effects and colors as possible, screw fashion sense.

Kamina wrote:

During a stand off, where no PvP was active yet, I entered HiPS. The mage, seeing this, cast that spell and light me up. All parties agreed that the PvP was valid given the reasons.

Yep that's definitely valid, and I meant my comment not just to you. It's all about the situation, sometimes people forget that :3

serbiris wrote:

I'm confused. Why are you casting Light spells on people while buffing them?

Visibility is a dark dungeon?

Oh. *too used to playing PCs with darkvision*

... But then, just cast light on yourself, since everyone else can benefit from the illumination.

Haha I know, right?

And that can work, unless you are standing in the back :mrgreen:

After all, people love running ahead, too.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Light
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Continual_flame

This can be found on both "light" and "continual flame"'s pages.

Quote:

The light granted by this spell does not penalize stealth

Am I missing something here? On the mechanical level, at least, there should be no penalty involved in using these light spells on someone else when it comes to stealthing, according to the nwn wiki. Torches, on the other hand...

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spot

I always thought having any sort of light applied a penalty when trying to hide, but then I read this, and it's all confused.

...huh. I'll get back to you guys after some experimentation.

Mushidoz wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Light
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Continual_flame

This can be found on both "light" and "continual flame"'s pages.

Quote:

The light granted by this spell does not penalize stealth

Am I missing something here? On the mechanical level, at least, there should be no penalty involved in using these light spells on someone else when it comes to stealthing, according to the nwn wiki. Torches, on the other hand...

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spot

I always thought having any sort of light applied a penalty when trying to hide, but then I read this, and it's all confused.

Mush, it even says in the Spot article you linked:

Additional modifiers:
+10 DC if the spotter is in combat.
+5 DC if the target is standing still.
-5 DC if the spotter is standing still.
Size modifiers (tiny: +8, small: +4, medium: 0, large: -4, huge: -8).
Area spot check modifiers.
+5 DC for stealthed players (only), if they are in the back arc.
+5 DC at night if the spotter does not have a light (or darkvision).
-10 DC at night if the target has a light on them.

The problem with Light in its current iteration is that, while it should be a touch attack to use to hinder a stealth character's hiding ability, it's classified as a buff and does not roll a touch attack. So, using it in a hostile situation renders it completely save-less.

Kamina wrote:

Mush, it even says in the Spot article you linked

-10 DC at night if the target has a light on them.

That's exactly why I linked it and said it was a confusing matter. Having --A-- light on is said to give a penalty to your hiding at night, but both the spells "Light" and "Continual Flame" state it does not affect stealth.

I read what I linked <.<

Why did those Bearded Axes in the Barbaro camp never get fixed? You people got something against beards, you smoothchinned freaks?

More shifter fun. Have we changed how AC works with them? For example:

According to the NWN wiki when gear merges it takes the highly ability bonus (I know that's true for Amia) and adds it to the shape (ie if you have items with +4 and +3 str you only get +4 str). However it also mentions that AC from items is all converted to deflection and then the highest added (ie +4 dodge boots and +3 cloak means you only get +4 added as deflection). Did we change that?

I know there's the shifter bonus ac per level but I realized that if you get a max of +5 ac from your shape... you get screwed if you take less than 16 shifter levels. I could be wrong, but here's why:

16 shifter nets you (according to the ac progression table) 4 armor + 4 deflection + 4 dodge + 4 natural + 8 shield which is 24 AC, plus 10 base, whatever you get from DEX mods, and then shape AC, plus a +4 ac from a merged +4 armor. So that's minimum 41 ac (assuming 3 from dex and no shape bonus ac).

However if you take, say, 11 shifter you only get 17 bonus ac... which means your highest AC is something like 35 AC. Is that right? Do you get screwed on AC if you don't go full-bore on shifter levels? Or am I missing something?

What are the guidelines for reskinning a summon, if the creature you want it to look like doesn't have its species available?

Like, what if I wanted my EMD to become an abberation, fey, or humanoid subtype?

You'd pick the subtype most like it. Generally the Sirrush is used for any natural or humanoid being, I've found.

On that 'Does Light constitute hostile/deserve PvP question':

It is legal to attack someone for casting light on you. The person casting light is initiating PvP against the receiver (let's call it an SD), which is covered by the PvP rule #7. The person casting light has forfeit their right to a warning, because they have initiated it. Also, because it is covered by this PvP rule, an out doesn't have to be given. The SD in this example is the defending party, and the person casting light is the aggressor. Therefore, the SD is legally allowed to attack the caster of light immediately to stop them.

Rules wrote:

7. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. If you have not set them to Hostile before, you can't blame them for having to act without it. Both parties should strive to set eachother to Hostile after the immediate reaction, however.

I agree that it's probably not the best way to respond, but the point is that it is legal according to the rules.

Who's the DM in charge of Caraigh? Hugglebug? I need to contact said DM, whoever they are, regarding some RP I have tons of screenshots for.

Kamina wrote:

You'd pick the subtype most like it. Generally the Sirrush is used for any natural or humanoid being, I've found.

What about stuff like Abberations and Fey? Fey are made of magic and have spells, Abberations are all over the place- i'm willing to say... uh... Outsider for both, maybe?

MisterLich wrote:

Who's the DM in charge of Caraigh? Hugglebug? I need to contact said DM, whoever they are, regarding some RP I have tons of screenshots for.

Yup. I've seen BoB doing a lot of things in Caraigh, so most likely it's her little baby.

Mercedes wrote:

Kamina wrote:

You'd pick the subtype most like it. Generally the Sirrush is used for any natural or humanoid being, I've found.

What about stuff like Abberations and Fey? Fey are made of magic and have spells, Abberations are all over the place- i'm willing to say... uh... Outsider for both, maybe?

Mmm... really I'm not sure, it depends which Outsider you even pick for that.

Mercedes wrote:

Kamina wrote:

When playing a sneaker, it's entirely viable to allow the casting of light to be a hostile action, as having light cast on you gives you a penalty when in stealth mode.

So casting light on an SD gives them legal grounds to retaliate, yes?

Yes.

First of all, how is the target to know exactly what spell is being cast except to wait until it takes effect. For all anyone knows, it's a hostile act.

Second, if "kneel (So I can torture you), or die" is acceptable pre-PvP RP, then anything construed as hostile goes. Don't cast anything on paranoid SD's and you don't get shanked, seems a simple thing really...

Mercedes wrote:

Kamina wrote:

You'd pick the subtype most like it. Generally the Sirrush is used for any natural or humanoid being, I've found.

What about stuff like Abberations and Fey? Fey are made of magic and have spells, Abberations are all over the place- i'm willing to say... uh... Outsider for both, maybe?

Generally these get decided on the basis of what the creature is, and which EMD choice best represents it. I think mostly this comes up in the request forum, so have a look through previous EMD appearance change requests to get a better idea of what matches with what.

Thanks! I'll consider that answered

Naivatkal wrote:

More shifter fun. Have we changed how AC works with them? For example:

According to the NWN wiki when gear merges it takes the highly ability bonus (I know that's true for Amia) and adds it to the shape (ie if you have items with +4 and +3 str you only get +4 str). However it also mentions that AC from items is all converted to deflection and then the highest added (ie +4 dodge boots and +3 cloak means you only get +4 added as deflection). Did we change that?

I know there's the shifter bonus ac per level but I realized that if you get a max of +5 ac from your shape... you get screwed if you take less than 16 shifter levels. I could be wrong, but here's why:

16 shifter nets you (according to the ac progression table) 4 armor + 4 deflection + 4 dodge + 4 natural + 8 shield which is 24 AC, plus 10 base, whatever you get from DEX mods, and then shape AC, plus a +4 ac from a merged +4 armor. So that's minimum 41 ac (assuming 3 from dex and no shape bonus ac).

However if you take, say, 11 shifter you only get 17 bonus ac... which means your highest AC is something like 35 AC. Is that right? Do you get screwed on AC if you don't go full-bore on shifter levels? Or am I missing something?

Yeah Navi, you get screwed on shifter AC if you don't invest to 19/20. However those that don't will get other benefits from their other classes anyway.

MisterLich wrote:

Who's the DM in charge of Caraigh? Hugglebug? I need to contact said DM, whoever they are, regarding some RP I have tons of screenshots for.

Here's a technical one:

If one wants to try SFX combinations and resizing on creature and PC models for summoning reskin purposes, how does one add effects to creatures in the toolset? I can create the creature and mess with all its mechanics, but haven't figured more intricate visuals.

Ice wrote:

MisterLich wrote:

Who's the DM in charge of Caraigh? Hugglebug? I need to contact said DM, whoever they are, regarding some RP I have tons of screenshots for.

Yup. I've seen BoB doing a lot of things in Caraigh, so most likely it's her little baby.

Is there a way to have a character with devil/demon blood without having to be impaired with a ridiculous -2 CHA from Tiefling?

If everyone with fiendish blood was a tiefling I'm pretty sure the human race would've gone extinct.

mirvala- wrote:

Is there a way to have a character with devil/demon blood without having to be impaired with a ridiculous -2 CHA from Tiefling?

Fey'ri.

666WaysToHell wrote:

Ice wrote:

MisterLich wrote:

Who's the DM in charge of Caraigh? Hugglebug? I need to contact said DM, whoever they are, regarding some RP I have tons of screenshots for.

Yup. I've seen BoB doing a lot of things in Caraigh, so most likely it's her little baby.

I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing it out

serbiris wrote:

If everyone with fiendish blood was a tiefling I'm pretty sure the human race would've gone extinct.

Yeah. Just your regular Sorcerer works. Can even start dabbling in the Acolyte of the Skin PrC or whatever binding and grafting they did in Narfell (or was it the competitor nation?). The blood, however, would not manifest in any other way than your developing sorcerer powers without requests.

Someone please inform me what the named spells which do nothing unless they're in your journal, do? Are they requestable? Are they rewarded? Are they just placeholders in case someone wants more than two custom spells of one level?

I use them for PnP spells, honestly. They do nothing and they have a vfx, so they're perfect!

IronAngel wrote:

serbiris wrote:

If everyone with fiendish blood was a tiefling I'm pretty sure the human race would've gone extinct.

Yeah. Just your regular Sorcerer works. Can even start dabbling in the Acolyte of the Skin PrC or whatever binding and grafting they did in Narfell (or was it the competitor nation?). The blood, however, would not manifest in any other way than your developing sorcerer powers without requests.

It'd be nice to have Tiefling sorcerers/bards a playable choice; I just don't understand why they get a malus for a +1 ECL when their good equivalent, the Aasimar, has all the same things, except a malus.

What aspects of fiend blood are you looking to have? Is it just visual attributes or something more? There's probably a way to emulate what you want without actually taking tiefling.

Kamina wrote:

Someone please inform me what the named spells which do nothing unless they're in your journal, do? Are they requestable? Are they rewarded? Are they just placeholders in case someone wants more than two custom spells of one level?

Added for custom spells, so they're not just widgets.

IronAngel wrote:

Yeah. Just your regular Sorcerer works. Can even start dabbling in the Acolyte of the Skin PrC or whatever binding and grafting they did in Narfell (or was it the competitor nation?). The blood, however, would not manifest in any other way than your developing sorcerer powers without requests.

How does racial sorcerer blood work anyway? Is it like dragon disciple only through rp and requests instead of mechanics?

Heehee. There are actually tiefling sorcerers and bards around. Poor, poor wretches.

Racial sorc blood is something you pick for yourself pretty much, but if you want to be related to a specific NPC (gods - which are probably out by default, powerful fiends, certain dragons) you may be required to make a special character request (but I doubt that's in the cards for anyone). Any special DC abilities you request will require the appropriate amount of RP justification, also.

Kamina wrote:

Someone please inform me what the named spells which do nothing unless they're in your journal, do? Are they requestable? Are they rewarded? Are they just placeholders in case someone wants more than two custom spells of one level?

I've always meant to ask this since my return. Anyone have a light to shed?

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