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Bobo_Underhill
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 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2014, 21:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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Might be able to, but you might want to consider Fighter 5/Rogue 8/WM 7 into Fighter 8/Rogue 13/WM 7. This should net you a free feat in Epic and Pre-epic, after the WM/Epic Dodge requirements, imp. critical, blindfight and Armorskin. There's (or at least was) a handaxe that gives Dual/wield Ambi-dex. Rogue 13 on level 27. If you're not married to the Strongheart idea, you might want to consider Lightfoot or something instead. The strength bonus doesn't do that much for you as you're a dodger, and an extra two feats in epic is pretty nice (provided 29 and 30 were fighter levels). Unfortunately, even with this configuration, you're probably better off investing in other feats besides the TWF tree. Epic Prowess, something to help your fortitude save, etc.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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Kamina
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Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2014, 21:47 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Eh, the gimmick is to Dev Crit -> Sneak attack spam really, so Lightfoot wouldn't work with the Str gimp.
_________________  "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 0:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I've done all three stat bases of WM, and while I enjoyed the highlights of the Con and Str flavours, the Dex was just much better.
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 0:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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...There's a Con WM build?
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 0:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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^ Dwarven Defender
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 2:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Uberuce wrote: I've done all three stat bases of WM, and while I enjoyed the highlights of the Con and Str flavours, the Dex was just much better. Yarp Frank-lite is simply one of the best builds I've ever played.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 8:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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If you are going the STR route, then you can fit everything epic you need (Armourskin, Overcrit, Devcrit, Epic Focus, Epic Spec)into Ftr14/WM13/Rogue1.
Ftr18/WM7/Rogue3 bags one more epic feat, which can go into Epic Prowess to maintain AB, and one more pre-epic. Slightly better saves that way especially if you use that pre-epic feat for them, but the real draw is the extra Sneak die and Evasion from the Rogue.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 8:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Uberuce wrote: If you are going the STR route, then you can fit everything epic you need (Armourskin, Overcrit, Devcrit, Epic Focus, Epic Spec)into Ftr14/WM13/Rogue1.
Ftr18/WM7/Rogue3 bags one more epic feat, which can go into Epic Prowess to maintain AB, and one more pre-epic. Slightly better saves that way especially if you use that pre-epic feat for them, but the real draw is the extra Sneak die and Evasion from the Rogue. Isnt it 12/16/2 (1 rogue for ecl races)?
_________________
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 9:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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We're talking about a Strongheart for ECL+2, bu yeah, the 12/16/2 split is the cookiecutter for good reason.
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Kamina
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 11:47 AM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Uberuce wrote: If you are going the STR route, then you can fit everything epic you need (Armourskin, Overcrit, Devcrit, Epic Focus, Epic Spec)into Ftr14/WM13/Rogue1.
Ftr18/WM7/Rogue3 bags one more epic feat, which can go into Epic Prowess to maintain AB, and one more pre-epic. Slightly better saves that way especially if you use that pre-epic feat for them, but the real draw is the extra Sneak die and Evasion from the Rogue. And here comes the "the only WM I ever built sucked ass" comment, what should I be at pre-epic? Fighter 13/WM 7? _________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 13:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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10/10 for the epic WM builds, Ftr13/7 for WM7.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 13:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Uberuce wrote: 10/10 for the epic WM builds, Ftr13/7 for WM7. 12 fighter/8WM If you want more Fortitude. WM Is reflex based (I dont understand why) while Fighter is fortitude based. But then again you may not need that many feats.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2014, 14:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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You also lose an epic feat if you do that, choose wisely.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 12:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I am not going to play this build, but I had a concept I wanted to finish and then shelf for later/someone else. So: do you think there's any way to make a Monk/Pale Master work? It need not be good, it can be outright offensive offensively. But there's something hilarious about the idea of literally mortifying one's flesh to die to to worldly temptations. The charm would lie in quirky defensive capabilities, I'd think. Too bad you can't really fit Epic DR into that build. Can you? The race would probably be human.
Monk 15/PM 12/Bard 3 maybe?
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Monk 10/PM 16, Bard 4 ?
Quarterstaff wielding madness with STR as focus?
_________________
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:19 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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I'll keep the Strongheart build in mind when I feel I can do a Strongheart justice.
I've started playing a particular Fire Genasi assassin who's speciality is a one-shot kill.
The build is going to be 8 Fighter/2 Rogue/20 Assassin.
one-shot kill is going to be the following:
Murder DC: 10+20 Assassin+16 Int modifier (Base 30 (18+2 Fire Genasi + 7 Ability + 3 Great Int) + 12 from items) = 46 Fort DC vs death that bypasses death immunities.
Crippling Strike.
Death Attack at DC 46 vs Fort for paralysis, good at catching off-guard enemies who need Freedom to move, it will last for 20 turns and deal 10d6+1d6 sneak damage.
Poison.
Arrows pending for more poison/base damage.
No, this certainly isn't going to be a walk in the park to hit 30 ECL.
I have some questions about assassin tools:
Do they activate on the first attack of their 1 turn cooldown? Would it be expected for it to activate after turning it on and then attacking for the first shot?
Any help with the above or general comments would be great!
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Goldwater
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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Monks can't take bard of course, since the alignment requirements are opposite. It's the same trouble with monk/aa: you have to take a mage level which is semi crippling to melee.
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Seventh Heaven
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Nov 2013
Location: (UK!) GMT 0
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This has Probably been asked before, Did try the search option on the forums too.
As far as spellswords go, does anyone know of an effective build at all?
_________________
"The Skin is your costume, The Stage is The Enviroment!"
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:40 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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25 Wiz/Sorc/Cleric/Druid, 4 Fighter, 1 Rogue.
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 13:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Goldwater wrote: Monks can't take bard of course, since the alignment requirements are opposite. It's the same trouble with monk/aa: you have to take a mage level which is semi crippling to melee. Oh right. That's dumb. [Insert usual rant about removing all alignment mechanisms from the game.] Wizard it is, I guess. I kind of like the idea of added monk tricks from 15, though 16 PM gets better defense. It also gets an epic bonus feat, though, which I can't use for anything except Epic Energy Resistance - every other epic PM bonus feat is caster-related. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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level 15 PM gets access to EPIC spells such as EMA and EMD. Which will make it much easier to gear your monk/palemaster up
_________________
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Only if they also have 20 Intelligence, though. Given that Constitution, Wisdom, Strength and Dex are all very important, it's a big sacrifice. I just realized I do get another PM bonus feat at 16 too, so it's a free feat. But only at level 30.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:21 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Ghnn... Difficult concept.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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Goldwater
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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The trouble with every monk/pm combo is the ridiculously low ab/damage/everything-but-defense, and since monk is so good with defense as it is, it feels like the overprotective mom with the double-baby-seat and sunscreen on a cloudy day: sure the baby is safe under all that, but he can't really do anything. That's why PM gets paired with something high AB for fighting (cough, cleric) and monk does too usually. Your RP concept is hilarious and awesome though! As an alternative I'd suggest the Eunuch monk concept? You could pair monk with a better sub-class, and the RP might be as dark and creepy. Or, you could fighter-bard-PM up and craft your full plate up to look like a monk robe? (yeah, I went there.) You'd get your Epic Energy Resistance too! 
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Mm, yeah. Dropping the PM aspect, Monk/Dwarven Defender might work too.
But man the concept sounds fun. It starts with innocent flagellation. When he still lapses and sleeps with a bar wench, he castrates himself. Noticing how that helps but how he still feels part of the world, he proceeds to mortify his flesh with extreme asceticism: fasting, sleeping on cold floors or outside, wearing a hair shirt, burning himself, whatever. Then he realizes he can actually kill his flesh and let his spirit soar free by literally killing it and just keeping the dead husk around him.
And think of the DC widget opportunities. Deathless Master Karate Chop!
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Forked
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
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I'm planning on making a spellblade with abjuration focus. How well does the regular EMD work when compared to the spell focus specific ones? Is the default version good enough, or should I perhaps consider conjuration?
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Forked wrote: I'm planning on making a spellblade with abjuration focus. How well does the regular EMD work when compared to the spell focus specific ones? Is the default version good enough, or should I perhaps consider conjuration? It just doubles the duration from 1 turn/level to 1 hour/level. A turn is ten rounds, that is, 60 seconds. I am pretty sure that a spell-mechanical hour on Amia is still about 2 minutes, despite the in-game clock being a lot slower now. You can do without the focus if you have, say, 20 caster levels. That's 20 minutes of time which is probably your typical rest interval anyway. (8 hours is the wait time, which should be 16 minutes if I am correct.) You're going to have some other turn/level spells that you can't afford to extend anyway, usually. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Yeah, my spellblade is a ESF Abjuration and Divination focus, but his EMD the Outsider so he doesn't get it extended (just like my mage is a Evocation/Necro focus but uses the Construct), and with 24+ levels they last decent enough.
And yeah hour is two minutes on Amia, like default. So if your RP fits the EMD of your ESF go for it, if not it lasts long enough anyways!
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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IronAngel wrote: Mm, yeah. Dropping the PM aspect, Monk/Dwarven Defender might work too.
But man the concept sounds fun. It starts with innocent flagellation. When he still lapses and sleeps with a bar wench, he castrates himself. Noticing how that helps but how he still feels part of the world, he proceeds to mortify his flesh with extreme asceticism: fasting, sleeping on cold floors or outside, wearing a hair shirt, burning himself, whatever. Then he realizes he can actually kill his flesh and let his spirit soar free by literally killing it and just keeping the dead husk around him.
And think of the DC widget opportunities. Deathless Master Karate Chop! 18Dwarven defender, 11 Fighter, 1 Monk - Quarterstaff!
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:49 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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Kamina wrote: I'll keep the Strongheart build in mind when I feel I can do a Strongheart justice.
I've started playing a particular Fire Genasi assassin who's speciality is a one-shot kill.
The build is going to be 8 Fighter/2 Rogue/20 Assassin.
one-shot kill is going to be the following:
Murder DC: 10+20 Assassin+16 Int modifier (Base 30 (18+2 Fire Genasi + 7 Ability + 3 Great Int) + 12 from items) = 46 Fort DC vs death that bypasses death immunities.
Crippling Strike.
Death Attack at DC 46 vs Fort for paralysis, good at catching off-guard enemies who need Freedom to move, it will last for 20 turns and deal 10d6+1d6 sneak damage.
Poison.
Arrows pending for more poison/base damage.
No, this certainly isn't going to be a walk in the park to hit 30 ECL.
I have some questions about assassin tools:
Do they activate on the first attack of their 1 turn cooldown? Would it be expected for it to activate after turning it on and then attacking for the first shot?
Any help with the above or general comments would be great! Any advice? _________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Goldwater
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 14:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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Iron's comments about EMD are spot on: taking EMD without its applicable epic spell focus is still plenty of duration and, as a caster, you're likely going to rest before it un-summons. Quote: Deathless Master Karate Chop! Hilarious! What you need is a DC item that works like Divine Power and gives +ab and attacks for extended duration, then your concept can hold its own! Call it Phantom Limb.
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Noct'uul
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 15:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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Kamina wrote: Kamina wrote: Fire Genasi Assassin Stuff Any advice? The assassin effect triggers on the 1st attack of every turn. Keep in mind that the widget can't be used in combat, so you have to activate it prior to seeing any critters on-screen. What will your AB end up like with this build? Looks pretty low to me...
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Kamina
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 15:07 PM |
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DM
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: Kent, England.
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It will be quite low. My aim is to run her as a hired guard. If someone acts up, one quick sip of a true strike whilst making sure Murder is on at all times, then throw a cheap shot at the opponent.
_________________ "Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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Forked
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 15:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
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Naivatkal wrote: Yeah, my spellblade is a ESF Abjuration and Divination focus, but his EMD the Outsider so he doesn't get it extended (just like my mage is a Evocation/Necro focus but uses the Construct), and with 24+ levels they last decent enough.
And yeah hour is two minutes on Amia, like default. So if your RP fits the EMD of your ESF go for it, if not it lasts long enough anyways! OOooooh! I was under the impression that the ESFs were required to get the custom summons. If all the focus does is double the duration, then screw that noise.
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Noct'uul
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 19:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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So I want to make sure I have this square:
If I make a Monk who uses a quarterstaff, my Flurry grants 2 extra attacks at a -2 AB...& I don't need to buy Ambi, TWF & ITWF to do that...right?
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Shroud
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 19:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
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It's a two-handed weapon. You don't need two-weapon fighting feats at all.
_________________
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Goldwater
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 19:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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Even though quarterstaff seems like a two-sided weapon, and is sometimes in that blueprint, it's not, so two weapon feats won't work on it.
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Noct'uul
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 19:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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That's what I figured; thanks!
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 20:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Additionally flurry only gives 1 additional attack for -2 ab
Monk gets a different attack progression which grants additional attacks that are separate from using flurry of blows
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ice
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 20:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Location: Usa
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Kamina wrote: It will be quite low. My aim is to run her as a hired guard. If someone acts up, one quick sip of a true strike whilst making sure Murder is on at all times, then throw a cheap shot at the opponent. If you do that, Yaster, I am going to hate you so much and curse your name for each extra item I have to mythal for fort, just for you.
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mirvala-
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 21:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 May 2011
Location: Canada, Qc (EST, GMT -5)
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Kamina wrote: It will be quite low. My aim is to run her as a hired guard. If someone acts up, one quick sip of a true strike whilst making sure Murder is on at all times, then throw a cheap shot at the opponent. Ooooh, bodyguard... *gathers coins...*
_________________
login:mirvala
Em'rae d'Ussen d'Vhid
No mercy for the kivvil
aka AgentOfLyumis
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 22:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Is a Rogue-heavy WM viable at all? Try as I might it just seems to be lacking.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Uberuce
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Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2014, 22:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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MoshingChris wrote: Yarp Frank-lite is simply one of the best builds I've ever played. Frank is a DEX-based Rogue17/Ftr6/WM7, and there's a couple of similar builds active at the minute. It's viable and then some.
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Goldwater
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 0:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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Definitely choose the above build rather than the 10 rogue build.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 0:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Uberuce wrote: MoshingChris wrote: Yarp Frank-lite is simply one of the best builds I've ever played. Frank is a DEX-based Rogue17/Ftr6/WM7, and there's a couple of similar builds active at the minute. It's viable and then some. Agreed. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 1:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Additionally, been plotting some rogue-heavy fun times. 30 Rogue was considered for a true epic style cat-burglar or master thief type deal, however I came up with this as well: Quote: Rogue(20), Fighter(5), Master Scout(5), Human
STR: 11
DEX: 17 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 16
CHA: 8
01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse
05: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus
06: Fighter(2): Dodge, Blind Fight
08: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization
09: Rogue(5): Skill Focus: Spot
12: Rogue(8): Improved Critical
14: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
15: Rogue(11): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
17: Rogue(13): Crippling Strike
18: Rogue(14): Skill Focus: Listen
20: Rogue(16): Defensive Roll
21: Master Scout(1): Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Fortitude
24: Master Scout(4): Great Dexterity I
25: Master Scout(5): Great Dexterity II
27: Rogue(18): Epic Dodge
28: Rogue(19): Epic Skill Focus: Hide
30: Fighter(5): Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently
Craft Trap 2(5), Disable Trap 32(37), Discipline 33(33), Hide 32(50), Listen 13(16), Move Silently 32(50), Open Lock 32(40), Pick Pocket 32(40), Search 32(35), Set Trap 32(42), Spot 14(17), Tumble 30(38), UMD 26(25), remaining skillpoints 4 Now, there are aspects I definitely like about that. Plus, the Freedom really sets nicely in with a thief that has it easy on getting out of sticky situations. However, it seems lacking in a way. I'm also not sold on dual-wielding (though it's a nice bonus) and the SF feats are a bit of a drain. It also misses out on EWS. There's another idea, too. Just Fighter/Rogue though it gets the perks of more skills, Skill Mastery, IKD, and EWS: Quote: Rogue(24), Fighter(6), Human
STR: 11
DEX: 17 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 16
CHA: 8
01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse
06: Rogue(6): Dodge
09: Rogue(9): Knockdown
10: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
12: Rogue(12): Improved Critical
13: Rogue(13): Crippling Strike
15: Rogue(15): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
16: Rogue(16): Defensive Roll
17: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus
18: Fighter(2): Improved Knockdown, Blind Fight
20: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization
21: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Focus
24: Rogue(19): Great Dexterity I, Skill Mastery
27: Rogue(22): Great Dexterity II
29: Rogue(24): Epic Dodge
30: Fighter(6): Epic Skill Focus: Hide, Epic Weapon Specialization
Bluff 21(20), Disable Trap 32(35), Discipline 33(33), Hide 32(50), Listen 15(15), Move Silently 32(40), Open Lock 32(40), Persuade 21(20), Pick Pocket 32(40), Search 32(35), Spot 15(15), Tumble 30(38), UMD 26(25), remaining skillpoints 7 What sucks is the number of skills I need. Needs a high INT and DEX for the build, yet also forces CHA to be lower ... unless Epic Dodge is dropped. But, then, what master thief or cat-burglar wouldn't have Epic Dodge?!
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Noct'uul
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 4:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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That 20th level of Rogue on the 1st build could easily be dropped for a 6th level of Fighter, netting your EWS. You trade 6 skill points for 6 damage; I'd take that all day, every day, twice on Sundays
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 6:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Good point, I don't know why I left it that way, haha. Still, though, seems a bit wonky :<
The second seems to look like it fits the concept of a master thief more. Maybe?
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Uberuce
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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It's close to impossible to get Epic Dodge and decent Sneak dice wrong. I had a pretty good attempt with my Rogue16/Ftr4/DwD10, with Epic Damage Reduct III, but even he had his moments and I never felt like he was a passenger in party.
Epic Dodge, Epic Weapon Spec and Decent Sneak Dice is even harder to screw up, so the following is just window dressing. On a massive castle.
Pick either Spot or Listen, rather than 15/15 - you won't be a truly effective Detector without full ranks and Epic Spot, although a non-caster can get away with fully ranked Listen if you're strapped for epic feats. I wouldn't recommend epic Hide/MS on a non-SD - you're going to get seen by a dedicated Detector before you can close in, but full ranks and a scrap of gear/Camo/OneWithLand/Mass Camo will get you past everyone else, including dedicated Detectors who aren't wearing their Spot gear and buffs at the time.
I would drop INT to 14 and trim Pickpocket and Open Lock. Pickpocket just fails on Amia -quite rightly for OOC reasons- so ditch it. You get more money from taking a dump in Cordor and giving chase while it floats down the sewers, just from the rats. If for OOC reasons you want to keep it for RP flavour, then you are in a logical paradox that I cannot resolve, so good luck.
Take ITWF. In combat you're all about maximising Sneak dice, and duelwield does that well.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2014, 14:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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PP and OL are indeed for RP reasoning. Master-thief and cat-burglar type would definitely need that. Their practicality is limited in non-NPC interactions, of course, which is fine with me. PP is mostly for DM-supervised use and OL can be used in some dungeons (especially with the new obstacle system being developed) as well as with DM-stuff.
Spot/Listen were just kind of tossed in at the end, under the premise that a thief/burglar should probably be able to watch and listen for at least some things in when breaking into a building. I'd figure Spot better to max, though, because of how shitty the mechanics for Listen are (having to be within attack range, and such).
I do figure keeping the TWF feats is good, even though the plan was for mostly sword/board, because it's nice to have the options, indeed.
As for ESF: Hide, I figured it was good to have anyways in a sneaker, SD or not. Max ranks and gear/pots are definitely good enough for PvE. The ESF was mostly for creeping around in break-ins and stuff because PvP would be avoided as much as possible (plus there are some NPCs with hella good Spot).
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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