AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

666WaysToHell wrote:

The reason for the price difference is that +5 Enchantment is +5 Damage as well as +5 AB. Whereas +5 AB is just the AB, not the damage.

As such wouldn't +5ab and +4 enhancement be 5ab and 5 damage for the cost of 2 slots?

No, it would be the AB of a +5 weapon, but still only the damage of a +4 weapon.

Enhancement = AB + Damage in the same property.
To put it simple.

I can't say that I am fine with what MoshinChrist suggested, but at the very least it would give a valid reason as to why +5 enhancement would cost 4 mythal slot. +5 Ab would still be better off and make the +5 enhancement obsolete though.. so that would just nerf casters in the end, and somehow that's one of the areas I would not pick if I wanted to nerf them..

So basically, what I read is that it makes no freaking sense whatsoever? That there is no real logical answers to any of the questions I asked, aside from "No idea"?

It was a screwup that poor lines of communication exacerbated because no-one knew it wasn't intentional until all the epic characters were already running around with +5AB, +4 Enhance weapons.

By that point, the server had plainly failed to implode in terms of PvM and mages had plainly not been booted to the bottom of the PvP ladder or indeed even moved at all, so shoulders were shrugged, Premonition-cutting and +1AB were accepted to be worth a sorta-wasted Mythal slot, Sure Strike uberloot weapons were made and life carried on.

The only loser here is the poor wee +5 Enhancement menu option on Mythal Forges. I doubt it's ever been used. [Forever Alone Guy meme image]

My post was laden with Sarcasm.

+5 AB/+4 Enhance offends my sense of balance when you can just cast extended GMW for 46 minutes on log in (and most casters can do that two or three times) and put Mass Crits, Keen, Damage, Vampy or Stat on an item. Keen is less of an issue because even though it only last 3 minutes via potion/scroll (or was it five via potion/three via scrolls) caster level doesn't increase it's effects, keen just does. . .well. . .keen.

But that's me and I hate the fact that even the weakest Caster (Ranger) is so strong.

Is it normal that many (5) crossings between locations in Ruathym doesn't work? Is it not finished or is something wrong with my game?

tucz wrote:

Is it normal that many (5) crossings between locations in Ruathym doesn't work? Is it not finished or is something wrong with my game?

Not finished / not updated.

Ok, thank you. By the way that quest with herbalist and daughter is cool.
I wanted to tear that castle down so much. Too bad those soldiers have damage immunity.

What's average STR for a weapon master whose race doesn't give a STR bonus (for example, basic human), at level 30? What's exceptional STR? What's the most optimal STR (assuming you don't have dev crit)?

26 or more is usually a standard for a WM, dev crit or not.

24-28 really. Depends on your feats. As a flat human (for example), 26 is what you'd want but 24 is acceptable I would say. 26 is average I would think.

If you start with 18 STR and sink all your level ups into STR you end with 25, so take a Great STR and even it as 6. Or, start at 17 and end with 24.

Is it possible, if you play a cleric, to request a deity that isn't represented? For example, the server seems to have next to no support from the draconic pantheon; only Tiamat, Bahamut, Io, and (for some reason) Falazure are on the list. If I wanted to play a cleric of Tamara, is that acceptable? Mechanically, would I have to play a cleric of Bahamut but say In-Character that I worshiped Tamara?

This next question is more in-depth. What is the limit on the past of a new character? All characters have a past, certainly, but what is the commonly recognized line that you can't cross as backstory? I assume anything that would require a nobility request is straight out (for that matter, what does that actually do for you?), but what if you're a deposed warlord or a formerly-powerful adventurer that was simply never well known? What if your former relations with a faction are such that a member of said faction should realistically know who you are? Is that even allowed?

Perhaps I should make another topic entirely for the second line of query. I'm uncertain.

Overneath wrote:

Is it possible, if you play a cleric, to request a deity that isn't represented? For example, the server seems to have next to no support from the draconic pantheon; only Tiamat, Bahamut, Io, and (for some reason) Falazure are on the list. If I wanted to play a cleric of Tamara, is that acceptable? Mechanically, would I have to play a cleric of Bahamut but say In-Character that I worshiped Tamara?

Something like that would have to be requested and approved by the DMs, since it's a cleric-faith thing. But possible, so long as lore checks out and stuff!

Overneath wrote:

This next question is more in-depth. What is the limit on the past of a new character? All characters have a past, certainly, but what is the commonly recognized line that you can't cross as backstory? I assume anything that would require a nobility request is straight out (for that matter, what does that actually do for you?), but what if you're a deposed warlord or a formerly-powerful adventurer that was simply never well known? What if your former relations with a faction are such that a member of said faction should realistically know who you are? Is that even allowed?

Requested and approved nobility confers no tangible advantages, it's mostly for flavor. Though I would assume it's possible to use noble connections for IC things, like for DM plots. Maybe, never had to wonder about it myself haha.

The basic rule of thumb for Amia though is that you are a level 2 adventurer when you come IG the first time. At least, that's what I've heard said. I'd look for a better answer though!

MisterLich wrote:

What's average STR for a weapon master whose race doesn't give a STR bonus (for example, basic human), at level 30? What's exceptional STR? What's the most optimal STR (assuming you don't have dev crit)?

26 is the standard, and few go over it on stock human unless they have epic feats to burn.

My Barb will finish on 30 because he does have epic feats to burn, and will have master scout 1&5 feats as Great STR. This isn't a great idea,so I dunno about optimal.

Everyone and their mother are nowadays called sir/lady - has the noble rule been scrapped?

IIRC no, but that only applies to titles in the name being request only. Simple acts like "Oh, what's wrong Sir Greg?" or "Lady Bobby fell over" in terms of being overly polite is acceptable.

I'm still sure DMs still want requests for nobles/titles in the name.

Nope. Still requires a request. And all i have seen lately had one approved.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Everyone and their mother are nowadays called sir/lady - has the noble rule been scrapped?

Can you provide source or data?

A lot of Kohlinger people were ascended to nobility after the liberation of Cordor, though I'm not vain enough to bother requesting to actually have 'Lady' prefixed to Jacia's name. It's in her Bio, instead!

Yup, the Kohlingen titles were all granted ic, that's the other way of getting one besides a request before character creation.

Some characters tend to call others 'lady' or 'sir' out of politeness as well.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Everyone and their mother are nowadays called sir/lady - has the noble rule been scrapped?

No, just the novelty diluted.

Is a paladin absolutely obliged to attempt to destroy undead, regardless of the situation?

Depends on their patron and personal feelings + rites.

But since the majority of gods they serve and most of their rites and thus their personality is built around abolishing undead.

I could be wrong and Paladins are hardwired to stop cleaning dishes to kill an undead that rose several miles away.

Dead wrote:

Is a paladin absolutely obliged to attempt to destroy undead, regardless of the situation?

Which paladin?

In other words, every paladin is different. There is no universal Paladin's Code, there are diverse traditions and personalized codes. Here are some examples from the Paladins of the Realms articles:

Paladins of the Order of the Golden Lion of Torm may use undead that already exists for a good purpose, and destroy them afterwards. Paladins of Mystra may have to work with necromancers in the church and may be forced to tolerate their undead. Priests of Hoar may raise revenants to have their vengeance beyond the grave, or just use undead in poetic justice against a vile necromancer, so paladins of Hoar will understand and let them complete their duties.

It always comes down to situational factors, to be honest. If the paladin looks hard at his situation and weighs the different options, obligations (to alignment, cultural codes of honor, patron deity, church hierarchy, friends, different virtues in conflict etc.) and outcomes, and stands behind the best decision he knows how to make, it is justified. It may be the wrong decision and it may come bite him in the ass, but there really are no absolute rules to guide him through life in complete safety.

Bards can use epic spells so long as they have 15 levels of PM -and- 20 CHA, right?

IronAngel wrote:

Which paladin?

The reason I am asking this is because every once in a while we have an individual of dubious class and deity stumbling through the portal of Tarkuul. I am not quite certain how would a paladin on Amia be required to react in such situations. However I am pretty certain that I have seen somewhere that a paladin is required to smite undead.

Naivatkal wrote:

Bards can use epic spells so long as they have 15 levels of PM -and- 20 CHA, right?

Should not be able to, rule-wise.

Dunecat wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Bards can use epic spells so long as they have 15 levels of PM -and- 20 CHA, right?

Should not be able to, rule-wise.

Pretty sure this is the case. You must meet requirements for the epic spells which is "being able to cast lvl 9 spells". Even though 15 levels of palemaster give you the ability to cast epic spells should you get enough spellcraft, last I checked it was against the rules to have it.

What, I swear I saw mention on the forums several times that bards can get epic spells this way and it's fine.

Can a DM confirm one way or the other please?

You are right, you saw it somewhere....in the official NWN game manual. But the others are right, it is not correct due to the DnD rule.

Would be the first time I've heard of a bard being able to cast anything above 6th level spells.

Does the use of 7th level spell slots for metamagic spells count as "above 6th level spells"?

Theoretically a bard with 20 cha should therefore be able to cast a 9th level spell if 9th level bard spells actually existed, hurr. And if they had a 9th level slot from an item. Mechanically it's possible, for what it's worth.

I will amend as "sans metamagic".

I'm talking about Amia, nothing else. According to the NWN wiki: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Pale_master#Notes

Quote:

Requires Hordes of the Underdark.
The spellcasting requirement refers to the caster level required, not the level of spell that can be cast. Three levels of bard, sorcerer, or wizard fulfills this requirement.
Pale masters can take epic spells at level 15, regardless of spell casting ability, provided they meet the spellcraft requirements. The duration of the spells chosen while leveling as a pale master will be based on pale master levels.
Pale master levels augment spell slots, but otherwise do not affect spellcasting. Thus, a level 10 sorcerer / 19 pale master has the same spells per day as a level 20 sorcerer, but has a caster level of only 10 and only knows as many spells as a level 10 sorcerer.
The only way a bard or sorcerer may make use of the higher-level spell slots granted by pale master levels is through metamagic. (Wizards can learn spells for these higher levels from scrolls.)
Gaining a pale master level does not allow a character to change his known spells.
The actual effect of the darkvision feat is not applied when gained as a class feat. The benefits of the feat are only applied when gained as a racial bonus.

I swear I have read on the forums that it's fine for bards to take epic spells with 15 PM levels because mechanically they are able to. I am asking if it's against the rules or not on Amia for a bard with 15 PM levels to take epic spells. I could be completely wrong, just wanna know.

It's a bit hard to find if you're searching, but it's in the spell changes thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56068

At the top it states: Mind that you need a base Wis, Int or Cha of at least 20 to be able to cast Epic Spells!

How it works is you can take the feat mechanically on Amia with lower attributes, you just can't cast it.

Yeah I know mechanically it works.

I want to know if it's against the rules on Amia to use epic spells as a bard, that's it. Because even if you can mechanically do something, there's still stuff that is against the rules to do. I don't want to do that.

serbiris wrote:

Does the use of 7th level spell slots for metamagic spells count as "above 6th level spells"?

Theoretically a bard with 20 cha should therefore be able to cast a 9th level spell if 9th level bard spells actually existed, hurr. And if they had a 9th level slot from an item. Mechanically it's possible, for what it's worth.

Ruce has a 7th bonus slot item, allowing him to cast Extended Mass Haste once per day. A large part of the reason it was passed was that as Bard30 he can run Mass Haste for 15 minutes/day anyway, which in practise takes around 20 minutes to do, once you factor in buffing, swapping gear and reaching the next suitable spot to refresh it.

I kinda like the idea of him being the only one who can do that, but if anyone else wants to request a bonus 9th and be the only Bard to cast Maximised Ice Storm, be my guest.

Same applies to any pseudo-caster. I have to admit Ruce, I'm jealous of that extended mass Haste on a bard.

Naivatkal wrote:

Yeah I know mechanically it works.

I want to know if it's against the rules on Amia to use epic spells as a bard, that's it. Because even if you can mechanically do something, there's still stuff that is against the rules to do. I don't want to do that.

Not in the sidebar/R&L -> Not a rule. If it does in fact work mechanically, it would be absurd to rule against it.

That's just want I wanted to make sure. I mean, I didn't see it anywhere, but I've missed obvious stuff on the forums before so I wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking it, hah. Plus I figured if it was not supposed to be done, it would be scripted out anyways.

Uberuce wrote:

serbiris wrote:

Does the use of 7th level spell slots for metamagic spells count as "above 6th level spells"?

Theoretically a bard with 20 cha should therefore be able to cast a 9th level spell if 9th level bard spells actually existed, hurr. And if they had a 9th level slot from an item. Mechanically it's possible, for what it's worth.

Ruce has a 7th bonus slot item, allowing him to cast Extended Mass Haste once per day. A large part of the reason it was passed was that as Bard30 he can run Mass Haste for 15 minutes/day anyway, which in practise takes around 20 minutes to do, once you factor in buffing, swapping gear and reaching the next suitable spot to refresh it.

I kinda like the idea of him being the only one who can do that, but if anyone else wants to request a bonus 9th and be the only Bard to cast Maximised Ice Storm, be my guest.

You're not the only one with a level 7 bonus slot on your gear for a bard, you sillyums.

My life is over.

Naivatkal wrote:

Bards can use epic spells so long as they have 15 levels of PM -and- 20 CHA, right?

This is correct and not against the rules.

Can I get a link to these rules?

I remember seeing something about the affects Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation has on defensive buffs, but I cannot find it through the search function.

Can someone give me a link or a rundown?

Are you perhaps getting confused with Abjuration?

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56068

This is the spell modification page.

Kamina wrote:

Are you perhaps getting confused with Abjuration?

That was it, and it explains perfectly why I was unable to find it

Thank you

Naivatkal wrote:

Bards can use epic spells so long as they have 15 levels of PM -and- 20 CHA, right?

I thought Amia changed it a long time ago, that you had to have base 20 in your primary caster class. So if you took Feat:Epic Spell on a Palemaster level of your Bard/PM build, you had to have 20 Int since PM spells are based off Int and since Bards can't take Epic Spell as a feat.

Unless I dreamed it?

It appears that spells granted through the base NWN class do NOT respect arcane spell failure (meaning they function regardless), but the widget spells DO (meaning they fail).

Is this functioning as intended? If so, I have a less useful character on my hands than I intended...

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