I'd like to open up a topic that suggest an alternative to the grinders and monster bashers, specifically for magician classes. As things are going IG, it looks like a new academy of magic is going to take stage again on Amia, at least, these are the intentions of myself and other players cooperating in such an endeavor, to bring back something not unlike the Monolith of Mystra, where enrichment comes firstly from a hub for magic and its practices to be taught in such a way as per academies in the mainlands. But two, this time, adding a path for magician characters to level up their abilities not with the stream of grinding thousands of monsters, but also at a pace, faster than say the job system. Not that the job system isn't useful: it is just that it is primarily used as a resource collecting bank and is not meant or designed to create an epic fighter by collecting herbs all day, I'm pretty sure that's not the intent. This academia way of the mage guild would rely primarily on player interest and active PCs. It requires both students looking to train in the arts and a staff of teachers to guide characters into understanding the 'curriculum of the weave'. In my mind's eye, I have already thought to the suggestion of having a professor of each of the eight schools: abjuration, evocation, necromancy, conjuration, illusion, transmutation, enchantment, and divination, with the possible inclusion of cantomancy. Each of these being PCs themselves, and the amount of students taking on the curriculum must endure a steady spectrum of all kinds of teachers in this arena.
What does the curriculum consist of, and how does it benefit the character?
Let us say there are three levels of this academy to pass, as in the job system. You do not have points to spend as you level up, but you may be given a badge for each 'year' of curriculum your character passes. When your character begins the academy courses they will be considered an Apprentice. After completion of the Apprentice studies, the character then will become level 10. They need not go out in fight beasts and put themselves in danger or duress, but hard study and work in the academic arena has paid off in their abilities as a mage. That is not to say that they cannot go out and adventure, but at the end of the Apprentice Level, they will reach level 10. If they are already above level 10 from adventuring and what have you, then they do not get Experience points, but they will still get the badge of completion and can begin the Adept Studies. Respectively: Apprenticeship, Adept Studies, Master Studies: Level 10, 15, 20. And stops at 20. How will the curriculum break down? What kind of RP can I expect in this academia model? Here is a glimpse of what you will need to accomplish RP-wise.
First for the student:
Apprenticeship: Apprentices are expected to accomplish a generalist's study path in their first year. That includes eight lectures from each of the schools, and one written paper of specialization intent: basically stating, which school you would like to specialize in, what topics interest you in the arcane community, and why. The guideline to this paper will be better described ICly and goes only to the head staff to review and accept to present the character with a badge of completion. The character is level 10 by the end of this progress.
Adept Studies: At this stage in the game, your character is a specialized apprentice, they are expected to branch away from their 'excluded' schools, or schools that no longer interest them to focus and take on their discipline as a Evocationist, with a capital E, as an example. They are then expected to demonstrate a working knowledge of their preferred school, as well as complete the curriculum sheet required for their specific school. Each specialized school will have its own curriculum that must be completed in order to get the next badge, that ranges between attending lectures, labs, and giving one lecture themselves of their interest.
A possible example curriculum may look like this, for a specialized enchanter:
Adept Enchantment Attend Classes: -Charms -Compulsions Attend Lab: -Enchantment Components Papers Due: -Enchantment Ethics Present Lecture: -See Professor for details
Master Studies: After the staff thinks you are ready for Master Studies, then the character has reached level 15 upon completion and getting their Adept badge. Master Studies then must take the game to the next level, required is a Thesis, as well as the chance to teach Introduction Classes to new students, which counts toward their completion. They may also be asked to join staff members on excursions to do arcane duties throughout the land or to do research on specific topics when asked, but passing their qualifications rely mainly on their Thesis paper, which after review from the staff and approval, will go to the PC Library Noticeboard in the forums and be added to other Thesis papers by other students. At the end of the completion they will receive their Masters Badge, and are applicable to becoming a professor, or venturing off in the world to provide their arcane talent when needed. Upon receiving their badge, they become level 20, and they graduate, and now they go off to adventure and the like. Now with their training in tow.
For Teachers:
The difficulty in this is the high expectations for these PCs, as you might imagine. Call it a faction of its own. One, incoming students need an approved pass so to speak, and taking on apprentices in the higher level of studies can be time consuming and at times repetitive, so it is best that Adept studies are arranged between your PC and your student/s PCs oocly beforehand. But having talked around IC, a lot of people are passionate about this idea, I am riding on their demands to pull through in that regard. But I am also riding on their expectations from other PCs to be 'not too easy' to accomplish the curriculum, so that we're not just speed leveling a bunch of mages. That's not the purpose. It is why Thesis papers will be hard-hit and reviewed by the whole staff, but also each badge should be awarded by a unanimous agreement. A simple: Did they do what we asked? Yes or No, for year one. For year two: Did they do what we asked and did they do it satisfactory? Yes or no. Master levels: Did they do this well and correctly? Yes or no.
But also, you the Player get to create the curriculum you want to teach (within reason to the school of your choice) Obviously there is going to be some no-no's such as Blood Magic 101, but the RP is rather free-jazz when it comes to classes, labs, etc. Defense against Blood Magic, for example, would be a personal flare you might add to your curriculum outside the core of what you expect from your students. The professor PCs then send their curriculum to overview, and will get an approval or no from the staff. Necromancy will likely be highly scrutinized in that regard, if the Necromancer PC creates a Grafting Arms 101 class. Obviously there are other channels for PCs who want to delve into those kinds of studies *cough* Tarkuul *cough*
Professors will also be perceived as the best of their field. When an external problem arises that requires some mages to do their part, the staff will know just who to send to do the work. The staff is treated as a confident and professional union, they will bicker, but they will not make actions based on political matters of the cities. The school is primarily focused on its own posterity, and will not send someone out to assassinate another based on justice or what have you. However if something threatens the balance of the weave, or the welfare of life, like a single entity destroys Cordor with a dangerous artifact. The mages are likely to react, but for the most part, their involvement in the world is primarily Neutral. Naturally if someone gets involves to help any events on the island on their own means, by their own means, that is their own business.
---
Anyway I hope this gives you a good idea as to what the model is trying to do, what it hopes to accomplish as a place for RP. I just want to open it up to you as players to gauge your interest, and as well to DMs if this kind of model would be applicable to your interests, it is a bit of a hop from past academic environments, but what questions, concerns, and what have you, let me know your thoughts and opinions. Try to be to the point and not inflammatory. Again this is just my own model of the idea.
Slower than or at comparable pace to job system, please. Mages are already stupidly easy to level (calling a mage's leveling process a grind is laughable when you look at every other non-primary-caster class ever) and already receive a massive amount of benefit in plot RP by sheer virtue of vast P&P ability access. The problem with making mages more attractive is that it will leave people who are not inclined to play mages even more in the cold than they already were. Now if only I could work in a "THEY TOOK OUR JERRRBS" meme into this...
Anyway there's Dream Coin leveling or quest requests if you're dead set on playing an academic. I mean, having briefly played a mage, isn't this sort of thing fun for its own sake anyway, therefore a little grinding and having to do your own legwork for requests fair game? So, it would best be an individual basis sort of thing. In which case you're welcome to create a structural guideline for students to then ask DMs about I guess, rather than however this model would actually function (presumably some sort of formal and recognised system)...?
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I personally think it is a fantastic, and epic, role-play idea.
I'm not sure about the actual award of XP, even if it would tie in with experience. But I wish you luck in the endeavor, you should do it anyway. I believe it can all be accomplished with with only a little DM support. I suck at playing a mage, so I rarely try. PnP is even worse. Thank god Aiseth didn't write the request, none of us would know what the fuck she was talking about.
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I like the idea, but I don't think the alternative leveling path would be a good idea, for the reasons Serbiris said. I mean, there's DCs and occasionally, a DM can offer an exp reward, but replacing a leveling system would be a bad idea. RP should be its own reward.
_________________ Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
First, a professor of each school of magic. Then a high magus of each school.
Then a lich.
Thay, here we come!
On a more serious note, it looks fun. You will no doubt discover as you embark upon it that it will require minor tweaks and major changes, so don't get stuck trying to cram a euclidean shape into a non-euclidean hole.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
I think if it can get off the ground with regular and reliable interest that you'll be able to generate a GREAT deal of RP and a great deal of interest in more about magic then just the basics.
Thay has already been on Amia, got their ass handed to them, no? This was ages ago though.
_________________ Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
Still on the minds of enough people I hazard to make a true Thayvian presence unteneble, without a strong military contingent or the protection of one of the major powers.
I love the idea from an RP standpoint (Ranallas would be all over that if/when he returns I bet) but from an alternate leveling path idea I don't really see it as plausible, at least not with our current server environment and setting. Looking even just at the setting itself, even the greatest mages in FR history didn't sit on their laurels from level 1 to 20, they got out into the world (or the world came at them) and were forced to fight one way or another. I could see an apprenticeship idea for may be the first 5 levels or something, but anything beyond that and you'd have to go out into the world and get some knowledge that way. Study and even practice in controlled environments can only get you so far.
Still on the minds of enough people I hazard to make a true Thayvian presence unteneble, without a strong military contingent or the protection of one of the major powers.
Unless they can secure the political power to establish a true Trade Enclave I do not see any Thayvians being longlived or influental
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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
When you establish a new university or faculty, you generally don't establish chairs for all subjects in the curriculum straight away. Generally, smaller faculties will have one or two professors and a few assistant or associate professors. And there's no way you could hire and pay the wages of eight professors without a few hundred students.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Yes, alternative to leveling won't be as possible.
New questions come to bay about the long term mage players in the realm, I think I'll address them here. This concerns how we organize ourselves, important, as some of you know, I am working on building a sort of arcane hub, a mage tower ICly with my character, but I suspect perhaps this is not for everyone in the world arcane. Obviously, the longer investment, play duration, an arcanist renounces his or herself in Amia, the more reputable or identifiable they will become to the community. For instance, arcanists who have found a niche for themselves, but prefer to be loners rather than of a circle or order of mages, should not possibly go unheeded by those whom are in such an institution, like my tower ideas. These are just some sketches of types of wizards I have enjoyed and seen in various lights, that go beyond mere spell focus and specializations, but more of the sense of archtypes, mages of personality, etc. A faux genome if you will of the variation of magicians outside say, the college setting, the communal setting as previously employed.
To start, the loner mage. I think a good example whom I have had some brief but good interactions with is Rashad the Azure. Here is an abjurationist who tends to prefer the ramparts of society, a vagabond. At first glance a traveler of no consequence, but stalwart integrity, or say, inner-strength grants him the ability to self-sustain without grudge and with earned respect to the lifestyle of a "loner" mage. Possibly someone the arcane center could call for aid, but never fully rely on given the reclusiveness of these spiders. I think for people who take on this sort of magician should be inertly strong and difficult, often times stubborn people, who do not expect much from the arcane center. They may spite their community or they may just prefer their privacy over public activity, but taking on such a difficult role often times calls for the acceptance that the limelight may never be pointed in your direction- They must be a resolute and patient mage, one with specific paradigms that may be playful to the more strictly universal arcanists whom must have that sense of community. Trickster characters are good examples in mythology.
Another type of magus is the charitable mage. Hedge mages, or delightful and warm arcanists, whom perhaps refine their ability in what is looked down upon as 'parlor tricks.' Mischievous, unpredictable, and generally social goofballs. They may not be taken serious at first encounter, but their potential power, and their potential ability to do tasks responsibly earn them some credit among the magus center, and their willingness to be helpful when asked to be. I think specifically of Rosary Doodlekins the Pink, who I revere as the celebrity of her small select village, generally remains stoic to its upkeep. Feeding the countryside with county fair cotton candy on a whim. Sort of like having a 'village mage' or someone in the community of a non-arcane structure to have and to know. What that suggests toward the Arcane center in terms of duty or engrossment, mingling could be exchangeable in times of need and service. This type of arcanist is rather practical and easy to attribute oneself into one-handed fanfare, but the 'rooting' of one's toes and heels in a specific village can become, I understand, dull, and a sense of need arises for others to take said arcanist into arms and give them a thing to do. This is a job for someone who can easily entertain themselves.
The inquisitor mage! The I show up when ever an explosion goes off in the woods, type. These mages are most serious. They take on a sense of duty to 'set things right' where ever and whenever and often times trample or do not consult other arcanists on scene to better collaborate a solution to a problem, and often make hasty actions or decisions. They are often ready-to-battle, quick to cast inquiry spells to find solutions, and blunt. Sometimes they foster their findings alone and do not share or speak when perhaps they should, but for the most part, retain the 'I have the answer' singularly. What may be a wise decision to do so, reflects poorly and dismissively on the 'general population.' The other way this goes, is that they're explicit in their findings, shouting and ordering matters as they come. The inquisitor mage can often be too direct, leaving quick vague and mysterious answers, they themselves falling into mysticism to a degree, which goes into the rumor slush, or ridicule. A lofty and higher than thou principle that makes these particular arcanists hard to approach and to speak with.
The delinquent mage, perhaps never in deliberation, caters to being the 'black sheep' in every arcane year book. They may not be the most personable of arcanists, often times dour, pessimistic, or unattached to the central arcane authority, the communal arcane. They can be at best, difficult to work with, but entirely necessary. Often times mistaking their identity for ill will, or even self-endangering, these types of mages are prone to martyrism, high pride, and a sense of 'knowing' something that the communal arcane may or may not know. Sometimes they can be directly sycophant to the 'highest archmage' and do not for whatever reason or rhyme, want to deal with 'lesser' arcanists. A sort of irony that goes unchecked, when if fostering some grudge or rhythm that pantomimes their private actions, goes still through the central ear of the community. Nevertheless, they can be begrudgingly accepted among the fellowship of mages that be.
The merchant arcanist seems only to validate his existence among the community when he wants to make money. They are often times wands people, potions people, crafters of some form, mythallers, and are highly proud people. Sometimes irritatingly good at what they do, merchant magi try relentlessly to stay ahead of the market. They are often off grinding monsters into ribbons for rare goods, and bolster their dragon-envy hoards of treasures to withering heights. But when it comes to doing something or are called to help, they're probably the least engaging of people. Mostly 'matters' do not concern them outside their own fiscal responsibilities or perhaps they are patient enough to let others fail to improvise later and succeed. That one-upmanship can be important to certain arcanists this concerned with their reputation. Alas they may have just the tools for the trade at their disposal.
The adversary arcanist. More untouchable and excommunicated than the delinquent mages, the adversary arcanist simply bargains nothing. They are so against the arcane center and maintain their own nests in such a way where they let no one in who will not directly serve their needs. They are unhinged, often, and generally refuse to accept insights from other people if not by their own volition, their own brainstorming. Liches, necromancers, and generally anyone in such a position as these, tend to be the antithesis of arcane authority. They simply believe it is rubbish and foolish and rely mainly on themselves to suffice their uncommon and self-serving interests. No doubt this earns them some respect, especially if they are powerful, but great animosity from the retaining sphere of ars arcana. At times, being referred to as abominations. They may yet be experts and store valuable need in only the most trying times, but for the majority of what may transpire, the adversary arcanist goes unwanted.
These are just some traits and types I've noticed myself. But maybe you have other ideas or examples you have seen? What sort of mages do you see, and what niches are available that have not seemingly been filled? Do you think an arcane community is a good idea, or are arcanists more powerful and interesting characters in their lone corners? If so, how do we empower them to network and interact?
First, a professor of each school of magic. Then a high magus of each school.
Then a lich.
Thay, here we come!
On a more serious note, it looks fun. You will no doubt discover as you embark upon it that it will require minor tweaks and major changes, so don't get stuck trying to cram a euclidean shape into a non-euclidean hole.
Are they looking for a professor of non-euclidean stellar geometry?
But ontopic. This kinda idea was something along the lines of what I was talking about in the DM topic thread. All power to you!
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Terra_777 wrote:
Thay has already been on Amia, got their ass handed to them, no? This was ages ago though.
Been done on more than one occasion trough the years. Main problem is player inactivity and people loosing interrest. Like most player factions it has an active lifespan of around 6-8 months before either collapsing or undergoing a nearly complete player rotation.
Still loads of fun while it lasts though
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I read "loner mage" as "boner mage" and subsequently failed to seriously consider the rest of what was written.
Hah sorry I'll go away now.
Rashad the Azure, Boner Mage at LARGE!
_________________ Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
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This piqued my interest, but I feel I have to ask...this idea has potential as so much more than a school for arcanists. Do you think it would be possible to expand to concept to simply magic itself? Adding generalism and the different divine aspects will allow for more players (as, sadly, factions do not exist for every deity, and I'm not entirely certain the Grove is alive as a faction) and the ability to delve deeper into the contrasts and similarities between what we consider magic and what magic actually is. I can think of numerous overlaps between divine and arcane spellcasters; using your Adept Enchantment curriculum list as an example, I can see multiple crossovers between a wizardly enchanter and, for example, a cleric with the Charm domain.
I suppose my point is that wizards aren't the only casters who could do with some support from a major faction. Uniting the various disparate divine casters (with the notification to leave prejudice at the door, though if we are excluding evil characters I doubt this will be a massive issue) as well as the arcanists feels like a lofty goal to me, to create a school for all magic, not just half of it.
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Church elements will likely be added to the conscious magician's bailey. I think part of the weave's academia has shifted immensely in response to Netheril with enough respect toward the gods to say "we're not Netheril" but still acknowledging that "we were once Netheril." With that said, I think you're asking if young priests may attend to old wizards by listening in on their lectures, going through the process of an education, and I would say that it is not in the current forceps of any magician that I know at this time, but that, it would depend on who the teaching magician is, and if they are willing to take on the cleric as a personal student, one they can't possibly instruct in the arcane, but may instruct in theory, or old fashion like. As an example, Professor Aiseth may refuse to teach a cleric, saying it is not in her insight, but Professor Sumana would try to do her best and give Father Whatever, the best shot she can muster, explaining to the faculty that she's going to take him under her wing. That is a realistic possibility.
Outside the curriculum: A tower is more than just teacher and student. There are duties to attend that may be better left for other elements of the faculty, such as a construct machinist, a chef, librarians, groundskeepers (if such a foot group such as the weave knights -needs- to be.), etc. There is ample opportunity, it only insists you have RP to support your case. Right now, I will say I like what you notice, and I like your thinking around the box I have suggested here. You can build off that itch you've just scratched, if you want to.
Joined: 09 Jan 2009 Location: East of Elsewhere, West of Sometime
There are also Mystrans, who are more inclined to be accepting of a body of magic-users as a whole, not only arcanists or only clerics. There are various ideological factions within the magical community. You may find some prominent magicians who would scoff or condemn the exclusion of divine spell-casters, if you poke around the various magical communities.
You may find some prominent magicians who would scoff or condemn the exclusion of divine spell-casters, if you poke around the various magical communities.
Pish posh. A caster who outsources his own ultimate Will to the tempermental whims of a god is no arcanist!
Joined: 09 Jan 2009 Location: East of Elsewhere, West of Sometime
Yossarin wrote:
Nivo wrote:
You may find some prominent magicians who would scoff or condemn the exclusion of divine spell-casters, if you poke around the various magical communities.
Pish posh. A caster who outsources his own ultimate Will to the tempermental whims of a god is no arcanist!
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
I hate to say this but a faction of guardians dedicated to the Weave's defense and focused solely on that is kinda nescessary. Even if the threats of renegade Magicians were not constant and legion, they could serve as a support arm for benign research in addition to other works.
You may find some prominent magicians who would scoff or condemn the exclusion of divine spell-casters, if you poke around the various magical communities.
Pish posh. A caster who outsources his own ultimate Will to the tempermental whims of a god is no arcanist!
It's not from whence your power comes, but what you do with it.
(After all, Yossarin makes magic by undulating his uvula. In public, no less!)
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