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Mine's 23 Cleric / 1 Bard / 6 DC

Derks cleric would seem to have 20STR 20WIS and 18CHA if the 54 AB is correct xD.

Well, it's 21 BAB +20 from buffs +1 WF +2 EWF +1 Epic Prowess +STR. That means he only needs a total of 28 STR... so a base of 16.

Yeah I have the Tumble. I'll post my results later when I can get IG and test. Does Tumble AC even show on the sheet, though? If not, that explains why some of my numbers are off since then I can add 30 Tumble AC (6 AC?) to my end numbers.

I'm always baffled by the results some people get, but I think I just don't account for some things haha. Plus, I do odd builds somethings, usually with stats.

Last edited by slkNihilus on Thu, Mar 07 2013, 21:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Tumble AC shows up on the sheet, yes. And 30 ranks is 6 AC indeed. So your AC should be 10 + 13 (+5 full plate) +7/8 (+5 shield) +5 deflection +1 Dex (if any) +6 tumble +5 dodge from boots, right? Which is the most you can get without Divine Shield and Natural Armour bonuses of any kind.

Also, folks, I wonder where I could get a link or old post about the special abilities connected to each domain. It's not there along with the Deity System.

The class section, instead.

Yep, that's correct. 48 sounds spot on, I believe. Then probably 5 from DivShi I think (16 CHA plus maxed Eagle's).

alamut wrote:

Also, folks, I wonder where I could get a link or old post about the special abilities connected to each domain. It's not there along with the Deity System.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56807&p=1016002#p1016002
There's no compiled list of each, just have to check the post there (and the wiki for the default NWN ones).

Cool, thanks.

So basically I'm looking for a few feedbacks on my next building: a cleric of Bane. And I'm trying to build something similar to Darth Sidious. So would you say he's more like a caster or a fighter one ? I'm really inclined to build a caster one but never did that before. Perhaps a more public post could give me more inputs ^^ I appreciate any build her, with status, abilities and the proper order on picking up feats.

Let's start of with banes domains. They are the following
Look here for "Default" stuff.

Destruction seems like the dead give away. If you put all level 8 spellslots and level 9 together on a caster cleric, you'll have 15-16 Uses of that spell. That's a lot of Implosions.

Otherwise i like Evil - Neg Energy burst + Undead summons = +7 STR on undead, + maxed bulls = 12 Maxed STR directly. (Mummy dust epicness)

Strength is good for Melee Clerics. It's easier to manage buffs when DIvine power is one level lower.

FOr tyranny to work properly with Power word stun you need divination focus. Not ideal on a cleric, but cool for DM events and such. Scry them enemies!

Right, but how about the typical status of a caster cleric ? 28 cleric/1 rogue and what else ?

Oh, 28/1, are you making it an Outsider?

Meh.

I suggested going for Destruction and Implosion focus, picking up Tyranny for flavor. Dominate Person is a rather powerful RP spell.

But really: you need to decide how you want to play the character. As far as I understand, there are three basic types of heavy Clerics: caster, strength-based melee, and the Divine Might/Shield crew. The last one is fun and a decent Charisma investment lets you make the most of domain powers, but it requires the most equipment and buff micromanagement. Spamming your short-duration buffs is not very fun.

For caster, definitely go Epic Evocation and make the most of that Implosion you're getting in two tiers. Earthquake might be more useful in PvM, but nothing says Banite like crushing the life out a failed servant.

Actually you might want to go Destruction Law for an earlier Word of Faith too, since you have an Evocation focus. It's rather cool. You'll generally be packing extended Battletides and an emergency GS in your 6th tier, but not much else.

(Svensk said it's easier to manage buffs when Divine Power is one level lower. Though that's true to an extent, I would say it's easier to extend it in 5th than 4th level. You got GMWs for the whole party and several Extended Prayers in 4, whereas 5 is for your personal Maxed Bull/Owl/Endurance. 4 also has situational necessities like Death Ward and Freedom.)

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7449/casterckry.png

Standard Caster cleric. Tweak it as you wish! I also made him an epic spotter - Because Fuck you that's why!

I was thinking about this not too long ago. I've got two options for ya! One caster, and one melee/caster. Personally, I enjoy the thought of the melee caster. Feels more Bane-like to me, and it has an non-ignorable caster capability. So don't think of the melee cleric -just- as a cleric that can only be effective with buffs in melee. He has a +12 Wisdom mod and some neat tricks. I'll happily post up the caster cleric one later

The Melee Cleric
Cleric 23/Fighter 6/ Rogue 1

Starting Attributes:
STR: 14
DEX: 8
CON: 10
WIS: 16 -> 22
INT: 14
CHA: 15 -> 16

Domains: Hatred & Law

1 Cleric - - Power Attack, Spell Focus Necromancy
2 Fighter - Weapon Focus
3 Cleric - Greater Spell Focus Necromancy
4 Cleric - [CHA +1, Increase Wisdom following the rest]
5 Cleric
6 Cleric - Divine Shield
7 Cleric
8 Cleric
9 Cleric - Divine Might
10 Cleric
11 Cleric
12 Cleric - Extend Spell
13 Cleric
14 Fighter - Blindfight
15 Fighter - Improved Critical
16 Fighter - Knockdown
17 Cleric
18 Cleric - Maximize spell
19 Cleric
20 Cleric
21 Cleric - Epic Weapon Focus
22 Cleric
23 Cleric
24 Cleric - Epic Spell EMD
25 Cleric
26 Fighter
27 Fighter - - Weapon Specialization, Epic Weapon Specialization
28 Cleric
29 Rogue - [Skill dumps]
30 Cleric - - Epic Spell Focus Necromancy, Armor Skin
~~~~~~
EXPLANATION!

Now, I hold no illusion that this is the perfect melee cleric. Its got an odd spell focus, and doesn't really focus on strength either. Its a Charisma focused Melee cleric, utilizing Divine shield/Might for great AC and damage. With the clerical buffs, you really -can- get an excellent AB, even with a 14 base STR. Maximize spell helps dramatically, as you're trying to focus on three different attributes.

I also chose Spell Focus Necromancy more for flavor purposes, but its not entirely a bad decision. With the Hatred domain, you've got Fear and Wail of the Banshee that both attack two very important saves, and in great AoE's. You've also got my personal favorite-- Harm. On a melee cleric, Harm is going to be your best friend. And yes, while its incredibly effective even if saved against, if it's -not-, its devastating. And your harms should be at a 32 DC to Fort, which isn't ignorable. Plus you've got energy drains, Undeath to Death's, Control Undeads-- You can do some really good flavor things while still being effective. Law domain also uses your +9 buffed Charisma mod to turn outsiders, and even give you a few more points of extra damage against chaotic alignments.

Yes, you could stop putting points into wisdom at 20 and put another two into STR for another point of AB, but I think that your focus should be on spellslots and a little extra kick to your spells, if you needed it.

Melee cleric is the more fun to play of the two (for myself at least) and seems to fit Bane better, yeah, but the caster cleric is quite a bit more powerful in PvP. If you're thinking of doing a lot of that, you're probably better off sticking to the caster.

Last edited by IronAngel on Thu, Mar 07 2013, 23:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Every cleric is (can be) a melee cleric. As far as PvM goes, whichever way you build you won't be the primary source of DPS in the team. The "feel" of the character won't be that different whether you hit 20% more often or not (number pulled out of my ass), it has no bearing on your AC or ability to stand in there whacking. And even without foci, you are going to hit stuff with your buffs.

But yes, I like Hackums' build. It really boils down to whether you want more epic spells (Greater Ruin) and/or an Epic Skill Focus. Can't afford those with the weapon feats. The class and ability distribution isn't drastically different between the alternatives.

A hulking holy warrior is the Banite stereotype, to be sure. That's precisely why I would personally go for a cold, methodological sadist who controls others with the unspoken threat of divine retribution. But that's my vision, probably not the one Alamut has.

Make a build yourself and post it here to be critiqued.

I disagree on that, Iron. Well, parts of it anyway. Melee clerics will have better AB and damage (str-based ones), or AB, AC and damage (the cha-based divine might/shield ones) than a caster cleric. And while most any cleric can hold their own in melee if they absolutely want to (pretty much any build that dumps into tumble can get 57-59 AC buffed without divine shield), you really can't compare the caster who does maybe 25-ish damage/hit average with 4 attacks/round with the melee bloke who does 40 and up with 5 attacks/round. Yeah, you won't be the main source of DPS even so, but you could well be running with 65-70 AC, 50+ AB and doing decent damage.

Naivatkal wrote:

Yep, that's correct. 48 sounds spot on, I believe. Then probably 5 from DivShi I think (16 CHA plus maxed Eagle's).

alamut wrote:

Also, folks, I wonder where I could get a link or old post about the special abilities connected to each domain. It's not there along with the Deity System.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56807&p=1016002#p1016002
There's no compiled list of each, just have to check the post there (and the wiki for the default NWN ones).

A little side note about the Domain changes and customly added ones, if you make your own Module or have one already with the Amian Haks loaded you can check all the Domains from there and they'll be displayed as they are on Amia when in game, if you take the first Cleric level on second level, for example (Unlike when you're making a new cleric on the Server, Hak stuff isn't applied until you enter the game and can't see anything Hak related in creation or at the character selection screen. This is why if you're going for one or two of the custom Domains you have to use the changer or ask a DM to change the second if you wanted a second custom, also custom/custom class changes will appear as default until actually in the game proper, online, just as with the Domains).

But they wont be fully functional, just like the KC abilities aren't either offline which must run off of Amian specific placed scripts, but you will gain the extra spells from the custom changes of each Domain, as if you were online either way, as long as the Haks are correctly in place within the Module you load up, their addition was evidently via the Haks to be able to work at all/show up without additional need for scripts for certain aspects, such as that they appear only with the need of the Haks being installed. Tried and tested, so no worries about the spells not working for any reason in a custom Module.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Make a build yourself and post it here to be critiqued.

Also... Ever wonder why the Banite church always failed? All the time it was full of archetype and phenotype characters. Play something convincing that makes people want to be under tyrannical rule instead of the inefficient democracy or the belief that monarchy where weak can rule instead of the strong and powerful etc...

Try a different approach than Rrrawg I r strong! Rrrrawg.

I'm inclined to this view as well. And for that I would go for a caster cleric. Ans I said I never did a cleric before just blackguards and paladins.

I take Mr. Hackums will give a decent DC for spells, but Very_Svensk's suggestion seems to be nasty. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. So for a actually caster cleric the DC of the spells should be decent.

IronAngel wrote:

That's precisely why I would personally go for a cold, methodological sadist who controls others with the unspoken threat of divine retribution. But that's my vision, probably not the one Alamut has.

The old church worked with mighty super clerics. This one would work a bit in shadows to strike out when the true time comes. But he would be working to haste that to happen, of course.

alamut wrote:

The old church worked failed with mighty super melee clerics.

I recall a time when it was desperately important for the Banites to resurrect someone... and none of the clerics could because they only had 16 wisdom to get their own melee spells. Just saying!

Hackums' build has a spell DC of 10 + 12 + spell level +6 for necromancy spells. So Wail of the Banshee will be DC 37. Svensk's has a DC of 10 + 14 + spell level +6 for evocation, so Implosion DC 39, Earthquake 38 and so on. Those DCs are decent but Earthquake is a far better spell to use in PvP since everyone and their dog on Amia pretty much has 40 fortitude, so the chances of them being affected by death spells is 5%. And that's if they don't have protection against them.

Yeah, silent spell is worthwhile for more earthquakes.

Oh, I would never suggest a Necromancy focused cleric other than a Banite. It was very much RP-focused, though I was mentioning that it was at least viable with the Banshees and Fears. (Fears, Banites, ye dig?

) But yes. If you were building for better mechanics, you'd go for an Evocation focus. Its solid in far better ways.

I'm a bit confuse about the spells as well. Probably going to act a noob quite often trying to aid someone XD. I'll try Very_Svensk's one and see what happens. Thanks all.

Oh... one last thing. What sort of skills ? Discipline, Concentration, spellcraft, and... hmm... well spot (according to his build). Something else ?

alamut wrote:

Oh... one last thing. What sort of skills ? Discipline, Concentration, spellcraft, and... hmm... well spot (according to his build). Something else ?

Well, tumble dump obviously, and as for taking spot.. eh. It's not required now that HiPS has been nerfed, but it's up to you.

I guess he's going for a mace then.

wolfurt wrote:

alamut wrote:

Oh... one last thing. What sort of skills ? Discipline, Concentration, spellcraft, and... hmm... well spot (according to his build). Something else ?

Well, tumble dump obviously, and as for taking spot.. eh. It's not required now that HiPS has been nerfed, but it's up to you.

Spot is always worth it.

Last edited by wolfurt on Fri, Mar 08 2013, 1:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Alright, I have another build that needs to be critiqued, it's kind of gimmicky, but should be fairly strong.

17barb/13rog
11STR
19DEX
16CON
10INT

Pre-epic feats: Finesse, WF dagger, ambidex, TWF, ITWF, blind fight, imp crit
Post-epic feats: EWF dagger, epic prowess, improved evasion, defensive roll, terrifying rage, Edodge.

Another option is 17barb/11rog/2fighter, gain IKD, pick up cripple strike and Gdex, but lose Edodge and improved evasion. Here would be the stats for that:

10STR
20DEX
12CON
14INT

Wouldn't rely on terra rage so much, as it'd also have IKD, it'd also have more skill points.

It's 16 barb / 13 rogue / 1 ranger..play with that.

GreatPigeon wrote:

It's 16 barb / 13 rogue / 1 ranger..play with that.

The only problem with that is you lose 2 more AC while raging if you are under level 17 barb, this is also going to be for a small stature race, so it's either IKD or nothing.. I don't really want to lose duel wield, as that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to build it. (+1 APR while in rage, stacks with haste)

and..doohl weeldirs r kool

Anubis wrote:

Unlike when you're making a new cleric on the Server, Hak stuff isn't applied until you enter the game and can't see anything Hak related in creation or at the character selection screen. This is why if you're going for one or two of the custom Domains you have to use the changer or ask a DM to change the second if you wanted a second custom, also custom/custom class changes will appear as default until actually in the game proper, online, just as with the Domains.

Do I have to request a LETO for that or just a DM in game ?

Well it seems you can change that at the maintenance room. But I only got Hatred domain powers. I wonder if there should be some sort of icon to destruction one, because there is none.

wolfurt wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

It's 16 barb / 13 rogue / 1 ranger..play with that.

The only problem with that is you lose 2 more AC while raging if you are under level 17 barb, this is also going to be for a small stature race, so it's either IKD or nothing.. I don't really want to lose duel wield, as that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to build it. (+1 APR while in rage, stacks with haste)

and..doohl weeldirs r kool

Ranger gives pseude dual wield. 1 ranger in epic lets you max discipline hide, sneak and all of that at level 30. It also gives you a free feat. Take armor skin. You now have the 2 ac from raging back and 2 more all the time. I r winner.

alamut wrote:

Well it seems you can change that at the maintenance room. But I only got Hatred domain powers. I wonder if there should be some sort of icon to destruction one, because there is none.

To my knowledge LETO would only serve to change the already apart of NWN Domains, unless there's a way around the drop down list in the basic menu where you can change the two Domains under the Classes tab. It's been a while since I looked at LETO, though, so quite possibly the advanced editor can select custom Domains similar to how you can LETO custom Wing appearances on to offline/Local characters with the correct number associated with the appearance.

I'm wondering what you mean by the Icon for Destruction though. Is it not showing up in the feats tab under the character sheet, or do you mean in the Radial menu like War Domain powers do, or Trickery? If it's the Radial menu thing, then I don't believe they get an ability like that, which is selectable other than the Turn ability/upgrade it gives, which would just be normal Turn undead uses under that menu.

For future reference, if you were to go for two custom made Domains, assuming they can be chosen via the advanced LETO menu and they are both relevant to what the Deity supports then they could probably be requested under the LETO & Maintenance sub, but I'd imagine as long as you don't go off and level with the Domains you were forced to pick on creation or something then you'd possibly just be able to ask a DM in game.

The reason that Destruction doesn't have its own usable icon is because it doesn't have a usable ability, per se. Its special ability, as best as I can recall, is the ability to damage constructs with the Turn Undead ability. It's passive and, therefore, doesn't need a separate icon.

Hi all,I have to take Samrael's final feat but I don't know which one to take! It's really bugging me, so I thought I'd ask for help. But I narrowed it down to these choices:

Current Specs:
AC 50 (unbuffed)
59 (with shield and expertise, unbuffed)
===============
AB: 44/etc./etc.
Damage: 1-10 +8
+whatever arrows.
===============
Fort: 14
Reflex: Dodges everything
Will: 12 (+Slippery Mind)

Epic Skill Focus: Pick Lock
Benefit: will have 100+ on bypassing locks; RP benefit: Can do this silently without damaging the lock, perhaps?

Epic Reputation:
Benefit: More social prowess on checks; RP Benefit: Reputable character, and indulging in those benefits.

Epic Fortitude/Will:
Gives her a bit of body and mental integrity, one or the other. RP Benefit: Less likely to vomit after shadowjumping, and or, more likely to resist beautiful charming bears.
(She does have slippery mind already so this helps. So I lean with Fortitude here.)

Blind Fight:
Fights like-ability creatures with more prowess. (Has epic dodge already so that opportune strike goes amiss anyhoo.)
RP Benefit: Sometimes you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar. She's ready for anything!

Epic Prowess:
Gives her bow a little bit more pull and strike. RP Benefit: All that sharp-shooting in the war paid-off, look at her go!

Armor Skin:
Becomes 52 AC unbuffed, being -that- much harder to hit on the dancefloor. RP Benefit: She's always been quick on her feet, and now she's taking the punches with more resolve too.

What do you think would overall benefit the character RP-wise and mechanics wise? Looking for opinions from people who know my character too as well as the build masters, I'm just stuck here...

Blind-Fight.

In before the suggestion to rebuild and take it pre epic like you should have and gotten rid of whatever silly pre epic screw you you made!

I'm trying to consider how often I actually fight invisible things though. It isn't often. I already have Uncanny dodge 5, which takes care of the other end of the problem.

All right, I've been unanimously swayed In-Game as well to take Blind Fight. Thanks!

Thought I would add to the Cleric discussion. Though I can see the point for a Banite Cleric making a great hulking holy warrior (melee cleric) I can also very much see why one would opt to take the casting route. Having read a whole bunch on Bane and his clergy (whatever that counts for in regards to Amia) it would be fair to say a priest/priestess of Bane would be more then happy to stand away from a battle, using Bane's gifts to cause destruction from afar. Healing spells, buffs and so on are a waste of said gifts, when you can be raining down divine judgement!

My Banite cleric is a caster and while she can swing a weapon to some success (I mean, who can't when under bulls, divine power, battletide, prayer, bless, aid etcetc) she would always prefer not to and the feats taken reflect this (virtually all of them being caster related). To her, holding a weapon is more a symbol of domination rather then something she has any prowess with. At one point, I labored greatly over choosing between silent spell and blindfight, in the end choosing silent so I could cast more earthquakes and have more liberty with spells in general.

Anyways, just a few things to think about!

I also expect any Banite to pack a bunch of Banes in their level 1 slots. It's a shame the spell loses much of its use later. It is quite more rewarding to play a Hoarran, given that Storm of Vengeance is level 9.

Hey, as long as you're smiting the Infidels and preaching the One True God, I don't think Bane minds how you do it. He's pretty lax like that.

So I'm still trying to figure out my new Drow build.

Current proposals are

16 Rogue / Fighter 7 / Master Scout 5
Rogue 15 / Fighter 6 / WM 7
Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / WM 5

Main crux of this is that I'm not sure what the Master Scout is actually like in play, or how useful it is. I'd be looking at taking the Fighter levels pre-epic in all cases unless solidly convinced otherwise.

(Have also considered doing a Fighter / WM / Assassin build, but have been recommended against it due to the cross skill loss)

How about 16 Rogue/5 Fighter/7 Weapon Master?

5000!

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