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You simply can not convince me with the arguement we should not change things because it would be lore inappropriate and setting foreign. What we have now is very different from the forgotten realms lore. I am actually advocating we become more lore appropriate. The exceedingly rare epic characters like Elminster are common in the amian region. They have his amount of abilities and powers, access to his spells and magical understanding, and to balance that we made him even more powerful.

What I am suggesting is not my personal favorite choice of re-balancing the loot system, the economic system and the level system. Note that I will likely be among those who "suffer" the most from it, seeing the time it took me to level and get the gold and items I have on Robert. Yet I would trade that all in immediately for a better playing experience. If we keep the level 30 system and the improved evasion and elemental immunity rings, the unlimited cheap heal potions and level nine scrolls, and all the other epic goodies - l would at least suggest we lower their power and significance.

Imagine if you will the Forgotten Realm novels you may have read would be set on amia. The Cormyr Saga begins, King Azoun IV is wounded and the future of one of the most powerful realms on Toril hangs in the balance. A great start. Twenty pages later a priest who was ported in casts Greater Restoration and the story is over. Yet not only the King has such great clerical help, but every adventurer around. Imagine the Darkelf Triology or the Icewind Dale Triology. Friends do not die, wounds present no danger, poisons are removed with a wave of a hand, enemies constantly come back and at a point you rather badmouth one another because killing each other has no point.

You simply nutered the drow world, and the world above as well. Lets grow some balls, the ladies included.

It is so hard for me to understand why others think it may be less fun. Every book from the Fellowship of the Ring to for Whom the Bell Tolls would be left untouched were the world so none-consequential. The heroics would not be heroic but on the level of an intern cooking coffee - only that the intern may actually suffer from a burned hand that takes longer than a second to heal. The bold selfless hero drawing his blade in the face of certain death - and certain ressurection is kinda... boring. All that Robert has done outside of the Cordor Plot was in essence neither noble, nor brave, nor selfless nor chivalric as given the world he risked nothing but a few coppers for potions.

Something that you, and everyone giving suggestions actually, need to remember is: Will this change drive people away? That is the first concern for the server, because we have a recent issue with server population and loosing people is a Bad Thing. Typically you cannot get people back. The next thing that should be considered is: Will this attract people and keep them here? That's a harder one, since there's not real way of knowing the first part, though the latter is easier to judge.

I'm not saying the ideas you have presented are good or bad for either question, it's food for thought. I will say, however, that making drastic changes like removing the level 30 cap and/or certain epic items is almost guaranteed to drive some people away. People enjoy being in epic levels. And just because PC's are unable to become epic doesn't mean the problem is solved. What happens when everyone is level 20? The NPCs are brought to their normal levels and sure no one has epic spells and feats and the like, but everyone is still max level so nothing has change it is merely a different level of power.

Another thing to remember is, well, DnD is not a novel. Amia is not a novel. They never will be. We play them for the story, yes, but novels are able to be micromanaged to an extreme amount, far more than a game can be. In fact, I would guess that if the DM Team did push things to be lore friendly to the point it was like being in a novel them people would leave. We all play this game for fun, and while I myself looooove lore friendly stuff, there is going to be some changes (mostly due to Bioware, haha) and I welcome that. Amia has always been a horse of a different color and temperament, and if Things change Far Too Much then people will simply go elsewhere. The trick is finding the Balance, because at Some Point people will decide that Amia has changed Far Too Much for their liking, myself included possibly (granted it would take a lot or something drastic for me to leave).

Like I said, food for thought. For everyone.

Amia will not adapt its leveling system at all, and unless some really good idea comes down the pipe, will continue to recognize you as a less than epic person in order to preserve what shreds of dignity we can in the face of the "I am epic and can do anything and everything" mentality so defended here.

Yossarin wrote:

"I am epic and can do anything and everything" mentality so defended here.

Who did that, exactly? I actually agree with fact that being "epic" here isn't of big importance. People who ain't epic level can still make moves that can change balance far more then brute "hellballs and ruins" force can.

Immortality vis a vis freely available healing from every ailment.

Yossarin wrote:

Immortality vis a vis freely available healing from every ailment.

That still doesn't allow you to affect any real change on the server unless you seriously dedicate time and effort to single character, and take risks.
I personally believe any "penalties" should be left to DMs to arbitrate. Whenever I go to a DM event, I go with automatic acceptance of possibility of permakill (or other serious consequences). It was real laugh on one event when DM warned us about that possibility, and in the end of the entire bunch of people only 3 of us left.
And about consequences of death, my toon had to organize true resurrection procedure for his leader. Took me time, effort, and even then I had to ask DM to RP NPC cleric. Had to sacrifice a level and sizeable chunk of gold as donation. Yes, I could have waited couple of days for leader to mysteriously pop back - "it was just a flesh wound though I got burned to cinders and my remains spread around by air elemental", but I wanted to see it through properly, especially since we were in conflict and we needed our leader ASAP.
Death can have consequences, people just need to put more RP into it and not wait for some mechanical measure to force them into it.

When the mechanical measure is designed lovingly by DMs, thenit is representaional of us being there and enforcing it for a decent story. Thus, the only logical reason why someone might want a DM in hand is to argue against or try to overrule the mechanic in their favor.

When it comes to interpreting power level, I tend to go with what I see in game. 30 is epic? Well, if you get caught unprepared against a small band of Brog orcs you might get your ass handed to you. A powerful spell called Earthquake, you say? If you're lucky you might trip a dodo, but it doesn't even break garden fences in game. Sure, Greater Restoration might take away a red symbol in the corner of your screen, but if I say you have a collapsed lung that line in the chat box won't disappear when you cast the spell.

That may be slightly exaggerated, but that's what actually happens in game. We can interpret those effects reasonably to maintain immersion, but the case for epic powers is surprisingly weak even if we go purely by game mechanisms. And there's no reason we have to, if we don't like them.

IronAngel wrote:

but the case for epic powers is surprisingly weak even if we go purely by game mechanisms. And there's no reason we have to, if we don't like them.

Somewhere in the forums is a post about how we cant expect to run to the mainland, take over the world because we're 30, and slap Elminster around because he's a lower level than us. I believe it had the theme of "Amia is isolated and thus gauged differently when compared with the rest of FR." Have you seen Drizzt's build? It's terrible. I think Elminster doesn't even have tumble. Everyone point at him and laugh.

In my opinion, what's really actionable here, is trying to fix the issue of meta-gaming (e.g. blind on death) and making the res system less of a whack-a-mole experience for the NPC monsters / PvP. Both are now being actively discussed in the DM sandbox. Some of the ideas here are being looked at for mechanics, lore, and Amia continuity.

Fabian wrote:

In my opinion, what's really actionable here, is trying to fix the issue of meta-gaming (e.g. blind on death) and making the res system less of a whack-a-mole experience for the NPC monsters / PvP. Both are now being actively discussed in the DM sandbox. Some of the ideas here are being looked at for mechanics, lore, and Amia continuity.

That said perhaps it is time we move onto another subject then.

What DM deals with what ?

ATM there is no list of what DM deal with what, and it is often difficultly to try and decipher such. It is also a problem as many of the DM that do deal with what you want play in different time zones etc. I think there should be a change to the staff section of the forum that listen what staff deals with what that should be linked in the request section as well. This should list what primary areas a DM deals with and who alternative DM is that can deal with inquiry if they are busy. Also "Areas" of RP specified as anjils devils & demons , or Yoss focus on Cordors plots. Glims Tarkuul & Kohligen or Dustys Kobolds >.<

If all this was outlined it will be easier to contact dm as per questions before posting a request as to avoid bad request outcomes but also to contact the dm specifiably involved in the area you are interested in. However i need to stress that for every DM "Area" or focus there should be a "Backup" DM that can deal with such request perhaps in different time zones or just because their RL or in game work load is to high.

Having said that it is my opiyion that all dm should be able to do "Everything" it would really improve the speed of the server and progression of plots, but would invovle all staff keeping detailed notes so other dm can continue with plots etc.

What dose everyone else think about this ? any ideas improvements suggestions criticisms ?

We have been compiling that list for a couple of days now. Look for it soon.

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

Fabian wrote:

In my opinion, what's really actionable here, is trying to fix the issue of meta-gaming (e.g. blind on death) and making the res system less of a whack-a-mole experience for the NPC monsters / PvP. Both are now being actively discussed in the DM sandbox. Some of the ideas here are being looked at for mechanics, lore, and Amia continuity.

That said perhaps it is time we move onto another subject then.

For the record I'm not trying to quash discussion, rather updating on the behind the scenes activity. I'd rather it stay organic and wrap up naturally.

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

What DM deals with what ?

ATM there is no list of what DM deal with what, and it is often difficultly to try and decipher such. It is also a problem as many of the DM that do deal with what you want play in different time zones etc. I think there should be a change to the staff section of the forum that listen what staff deals with what that should be linked in the request section as well. This should list what primary areas a DM deals with and who alternative DM is that can deal with inquiry if they are busy. Also "Areas" of RP specified as anjils devils & demons , or Yoss focus on Cordors plots. Glims Tarkuul & Kohligen or Dustys Kobolds >.<

This is actually being worked on, although not quite in the way you're imagining. We're looking at posting a 'current projects' list.

Currently, the DM profiles are there to address this. It's not perfect, perhaps some recommendations on how to organize that better?

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

Having said that it is my opiyion that all dm should be able to do "Everything" it would really improve the speed of the server and progression of plots, but would invovle all staff keeping detailed notes so other dm can continue with plots etc.

I hate to actually give a concrete answer on this, but there are, at any given time, multiple short term plots/individual requests/server wide plots/one offs that are touched on and moved forward every day. (Drow, to Tarkuul, to Kohl, Cordor...) It's just not possible for a DM to know it all. That said, we are very communicative with each other and do a lot of collaborations.

As Yoss said, we'll have a list to you soon to take the place of the DM Profiles.

To address the rest of your post:
With a setting as diverse and well developed as FR, there is simply too much information for each of us on the team to be jacks of all trades. The same thing goes for running a server of the size of Amia.

That is the reason, from my perspective, as to why so many of us are specialists in certain areas of Lore. Otherwise, something you likely would not know of and what Fabian touched on, is that we already do keep notes up in the 'DM sandbox' (as Fabian put it) and each of us can run plots in areas we are usually not "associated" with.

IE: I have been in Cordor a lot as of late and Silent has been down in the UD.

Neat, guys i will have a think about any better way to do the profiles or a suggestion anyway to give more detail on indervidual DM specialty ill come up with an example or two and post it later. Otherwise that's awesome to hear i look foward to seeing what you guys come up with. Thanks

Something that actually bugs me about Raise Dead/Resurrection... none of the NPCs can use those spells in combat. Because once an enemy falls, shortly after the body poofs so there's nothing to target, even assuming the AI could get its head around the idea of raising a fallen ally.

But even if the issues with that were worked out, fighting resurrected mobs and killing them all over again for the XP seems a bit gamey.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't count on a scripted system to solve everything, 'cause it can take many lines of code to enforce even the simplest of things.

If I was going to create a system that punishes you for dying but then not being dead (more than it does right now) I would allow for some sort of choice as to what that penalty should be. And I would take great pains to avoid just slapping a negative modifier on your character sheet.

For example, one choice could be Misery and Poverty. Choosing this penalty means that merchants will charge you more for things you want to buy and give you less for the things you sell. You would also get random lines from NPCs as you pass through town relating to the misery motif. It's perfect for the character who feels sorry for themselves after failing.

Another choice could be Jolly Bad Luck, Chum. With this penalty in effect, whenever you trigger a trap, if your HPs are low enough that you could die from direct damage, you forfeit any saves that might allow you to take half damage or no damage. That doesn't mean you will necessarily die, because trap damage is calculated on a roll too, but you won't be looking too healthy. NPCs will make constant mention of staying safe out there and annoy you with obvious tips like always wear your armour. This is great for when your character is paranoid after a failure and thinks the world is out to get them - now it really is.

Another choice could be Where the Frak Am I Now? Choosing this penalty means that whenever you use a portal wand or use some form of transportation, you may find yourself somewhere other than where you were supposed to go. Whether it's because your finger slipped on the wand, or you slept through your boat's arrival at port, travel seems to now be a problem for you. NPCs will often comment on how you seem lost or confused. This is great for characters who are absent-minded after a defeat and need to just go walkabout around the islands to clear their head.

Another choice could be Impotent Rage. Choosing this penalty gives you an ability similar to Barbarian Rage, except that it activates randomly after entering any new area. It grants no bonuses to attack or damage or saves, you just get the visual effects and bellow at the top of your lungs, 'I'm going to carve you into pieces!' or similar. However, any rage-like abilities that you possess and can activate will be similarly impotent, as will any breath attacks you may have. NPCs will mention the throbbing vein in your forehead. A lot. This is great for a character that is angry after being defeated.

And so on. While it is true that the last one technically is a negative to the character sheet because you're not getting a bonus when usually you would, they're all fairly annoying in their own way without needing a whole lot of work.

I laughed the whole time reading that

Well, that was the idea. As I got to the last one I was picturing a red-faced dwarf in a forest, steaming mad, cursing up a storm, swinging wildly with his axe at snickering grigs. Quips his companion, "Thae are some trees that will never bother anyone ever again."

Selmak wrote:

Well, that was the idea. As I got to the last one I was picturing a red-faced dwarf in a forest, steaming mad, cursing up a storm, swinging wildly with his axe at snickering grigs. Quips his companion, "Thae are some trees that will never bother anyone ever again."

I still think a fugue plane that allow characters to become more familiar with deities and faith etc though some of my "waiting" times etc might be harsh, id LOVE to see the fuge plane combined with some kind of progressive "negative" effects like stat damage etc that goes away after time, perhaps even with a lore section explain acceptable RP for people who have got such damage. Perhaps such could be really mild for PVE but quite several for PVP deaths

corpses are just neat also means even if someone has no scroll they can take the body VIA portals to get it raised also, so there are some up sides.

Selmak wrote:

Another choice could be Impotent Rage. Choosing this penalty gives you an ability similar to Barbarian Rage, except that it activates randomly after entering any new area. It grants no bonuses to attack or damage or saves, you just get the visual effects and bellow at the top of your lungs, 'I'm going to carve you into pieces!' or similar. However, any rage-like abilities that you possess and can activate will be similarly impotent, as will any breath attacks you may have. NPCs will mention the throbbing vein in your forehead. A lot. This is great for a character that is angry after being defeated.

Tourettes? Sign me up. I couldn't stop thinking of Deuce Bigalow. :lol:

Just because a scripted system doesn't "solve" the problem doesn't mean it can't make it "less of a problem."

It sounds to me like quite a few people are scared of wrecking the status quo, citing primarily that it's not a perfect system that we'd be swapping to.

Yes, you're right. No system is perfect. What if I made a 1x1 tile module and put the server online, yes, people could log on and roleplay, but who'd of thought you could improve it, even if it didn't make it perfect?

A lot of the suggested system's or even rules alone can't be worse than what we have.

Yes they can, no I do not want the status quo, yes I do want comprehensive solutions because they come from people who think about more than just themselves and others who think like them.

People keep mentioning the 'status quo' and I can't help but ask ... what exactly is the status quo for Amia? I read it so often that I cannot imagine everyone is using it right. It is starting to become a blanket term that everyone uses.

In this particular case, the status quo for our current Death System is to get up and do what you (as a player only) want to do, with no needed consideration for the others involved.

Simplified: roleplay the consequences or forget them entirely and pretend it didn't happen.

That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page as everyone haha.

Honestly, I think that people RPing that sort of thing properly is the way to fix it. Unfortunately the realist in me understands that it won't happen since it's not a perfect world. Which is why I am for some clever and crafty changes to how things work! I only wish to caution making things extreme and accidentally driving people away.

Naivatkal wrote:

Honestly, I think that people RPing that sort of thing properly is the way to fix it.

You're never going to get people to agree on the definition of "proper," though. Example: debated in this thread has been the notion of post-rez memory loss. Some people (primarily Needled, I think) think it's proper for a character to have to forget X minutes of the events leading up to death, as a consquence of having lost X number of experience points.

I don't. I think it's silly, arbitrary, and not supported by mechanics or lore. I won't ever be playing my characters as suffering from any post-rez memory loss unless it's mechanically enforced. I'll be perfectly glad to go on playing being rezzed as disorienting, demoralizing, and temporarily disabling, though.

Who's "proper"?

Honestly, I've seen alot of good ideas from all angles, fixing it from a variety of angles. It doesn't need to be one idea, it could be a mixture of some, one, or all of them.

I understand you disagree with me Lizzie, but I have already explained why I believe it is supported by both mechanics and the lore, and to say it with such finality is dismissing an opinion by scientific fact, which I'm sorry is simply not the case. They're both opinions. I understand and respect your opinion.

Yeah, that's why my post ended with a question mark.

I wasn't trying to be dismissive, just brief. That they're both just opinions was exactly my point: Who gets to tell us what's "proper"?

Lizzie wrote:

Who's "proper"?

I was thinking in the most basic sense:
You just got your arse kicked and need to either chill out or be freaked out depending on the situation and if you respawned (I see respawning as a strange act since you either come back where you died or at your entry point, whereas raising is a bit let traumatic as your soul was guided back without having to figure it out on it's own ... or something haha, death is traumatic regardless unless you are just totally jaded and grim) or whatever. Beyond that, I dunno.

As for memory loss, I like my method. If you have substantial contact with someone (ie a heated discussion or even interrogation) where the person was not bothering to conceal who they are, then you are going to remember something. However if you are the victim of a disguised (open to interpretation, let's say blacked out features and something the character never wears except during such things) then you will have a hard time knowing wtf just happened.

There are several of y'all's ideas being tossed around Behind The Curtain... along with some variations. So, just because we're not rushing to make any changes, don't think that we're dismissing this or not discussing it.

So, keep the ideas and discussion coming, folks.

Just to keep you updated: I'm making new models for a hak update. This is stuff nobody else has! My focus is on adding more variation of the basic building blocks we have been using over and over again. So: not one boulder, but 75. Not 3 fir trees, but 30. Not two sensible normal trees, but 50+.

The latest and greatest invention: new skeletons.

Dev Disco wrote:

Just to keep you updated: I'm making new models for a hak update. This is stuff nobody else has! My focus is on adding more variation of the basic building blocks we have been using over and over again. So: not one boulder, but 75. Not 3 fir trees, but 30. Not two sensible normal trees, but 50+.

The latest and greatest invention: new skeletons.

That's... wow. Designing that stuff has to be the job with the all-time biggest disparity between how interesting it is and how useful it is.

"Great, I've just finished designing my 32nd unique boulder! Only... 43 more to go! Woohoo!!!" I appreciate that it's recognized that the things that make a server look distinctive and play well are not necessarily the big flashy eye candy. Sometimes it's just the 75th unique boulder. Awesome.

Okay, peeps, the DM Team have been talking about the overly complicated issue of death and consequences. Although we are still having a discussion, we have come to the agreement that we are going to institute 2 things that we think will improve aspects of Amia's "death and consequences" concerns. These may not be the only things we are doing (we are still in discussion), but we are at least doing these:

1) Blindness/Deafness on death. When you die, you will go both blind and deaf to prevent you, as a player, from seeing what goes on after you die so that you are not put into a situation where you may unintentionally metagame that information. CAVEAT: I realized that during DM Events, this can become boring and tedious since you might wind up sitting there for a long time. With this in mind, DMs can, at their discretion, provide you with an OOC raise so that you can have a window on the drama/action. We are very sensitive to the fact that being downed and staring at a black screen with that annoying "wait/respawn/exit" screen is there, and we'd rather you not be tempted to "exit" so hastily (that's what all of our changes are about, right?)

Whether players will retain the ability to provide OOC raises is up for debate. Players can use that function now, with this new system, to encourage metagaming...even though most of them will probably use it in the sense that DMs would use it, so the poor dead schmuck can at least observe from the outside. I will let the rest of you discuss this particular point.

2) Congratulations, assassins (whether or not you have the PrC)! You now have the assistance of the DMs in pursuit of your contracts. In the few instances where I have had to answer questions about assassinations, I have always, always, always recommended to the player behind the assassin that they have a DM present for the hit. Why? Because we are the unbiased moderators and we can make sure that all PvP rules are followed (even though the rules of engagement do not apply in assassination hits and they can happen WHAM out of the blue with no warning or "IC out" because otherwise what the fuck is the point, amirite?), and we can have a record of its success, failure, and all little details that become important. We can also immediately resolve any disputes that might arise with our incredible powers of declaring one person right and one person wrong or something in between.

Now you have an incentive to get a DM to assist you in your hits. We will change the floaty names above your head to something suitably generic. We will edit your bio to something blank (it will be your responsibility to put it back the way you had it.) Your wardrobe is up to you. We can assist you just that much to make a hit go through...

...and on the same token, in the instance that you fail your hit and the target gets an opportunity to Spot you, we can assist the target in getting some hints about you. Disguises can only assist you so much, after all. That's why a good assassin never allows him- or herself to be spotted...or, if he or she does, never lets the target live long enough to tell anyone.

We haven't discussed the issue of memory retention, but we probably should.

Anyway, those are the changes we intend to make relatively soon.

TL;DR version:

"How to make things awesomer," by Yossarin & Co.

I know people hate this idea, but i just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Lower the level to 15, i honestly think it would improve the server as a whole, it would limit the idea of builds for the sake of builds and not rp as pure classes would gain alot appeal, not to mention that prc classes would probably be something far more interesting, as they would be unique.

Ofcause this leaves a huge problem with all the gear and custom items and spells people have, that i honerstly dont know how to handle.
That is the major problem ofcause with implementing this, however i still think it would be a major improvement on the entire mood of a FR setting, cause when you see the powerful npc's in faerun, they bounce around the late 10's early 20's and personally if i ran into a dm controlled drizzt i would like to get the feel that he could woop my arse at any time hehe.

I know that some claim that we are not actually level 30, that our level is actual 15 rp wise, compared to the people in faerun, but its just not true, we fight demon invasions and far worse on amia and that's not level 15 stuff, that's level 30 stuff.

I just dont see any negatives at all with lowering to level 15, other than 2 things, first the custom stuff and epic gear, then, alot of wasted time in regards to the epic elements currently in the server, both are powerful arguments for not to go with level 15, i just dont like 30 it does not feel special, and it is epic, it should be very special, atleast to me, but here a ressurect and a mage of insane power..is normal...why not make them actually more normal, less special, to actually set a level setting that is according with the feel of the server, and make normal...actually more normal.

perhaps add 5 levels through rp alone, dm awards and dreamcoins and such

Kraniumbrud wrote:

I know people hate this idea, but i just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Lower the level to 15, i honestly think it would improve the server as a whole, it would limit the idea of builds for the sake of builds and not rp as pure classes would gain alot appeal, not to mention that prc classes would probably be something far more interesting, as they would be unique.

Can you provide evidence showing that it would improve things all around?
You can still powerbuild under level 20, it's just a powerbuild compared to other builds so you cannot eliminate that aspect. Prestige classes wouldn't be unique, since people would still take them. It's just a shift in power that really doesn't do anything.

You are also forgetting about another large issue: What happens to all of the 20+ characters out there? How do you explain them suddenly loosing half of their levels?

Besides the fact that it's been voiced by a DM that this won't happen, doing something like this will drive most of the player base away. Amia is a level 30 server, it always has been. People will just go to other level 30 servers and RP there.

On a sidenote, who thinks we are 'essentially level 15'? That's bollucks haha. It's just that the high-level NPCs are around level 40 instead of being around level 30 to compensate.

Naivatkal wrote:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

I know people hate this idea, but i just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Lower the level to 15, i honestly think it would improve the server as a whole, it would limit the idea of builds for the sake of builds and not rp as pure classes would gain alot appeal, not to mention that prc classes would probably be something far more interesting, as they would be unique.

Can you provide evidence showing that it would improve things all around?
You can still powerbuild under level 20, it's just a powerbuild compared to other builds so you cannot eliminate that aspect. Prestige classes wouldn't be unique, since people would still take them. It's just a shift in power that really doesn't do anything.

You are also forgetting about another large issue: What happens to all of the 20+ characters out there? How do you explain them suddenly loosing half of their levels?

Besides the fact that it's been voiced by a DM that this won't happen, doing something like this will drive most of the player base away. Amia is a level 30 server, it always has been. People will just go to other level 30 servers and RP there.

On a sidenote, who thinks we are 'essentially level 15'? That's bollucks haha. It's just that the high-level NPCs are around level 40 instead of being around level 30 to compensate.

As I said, it is something -I- think would improve the server, add some normality to the server instead of this epic=normal feel that currently is here, i dont think it will drive away most of the players if it is done right, i have polls to prove this, but I think people stay here because of the fun and rp not because they have hellballs.

I think that while yes, some of the Cosmic level threats could be scaled back, there's still plenty of potential for intermediate threats which could still be worthwhile to resolve.

At the same time, with the resources some characters have access to.. you do need to have typically smarter villains to have them last, to be honest.

Far easier and more sensible to bump those NPCs up should they ever for any weird reason need it than force all of you down to march with things and people you will never meet or know.

Does this mean my invite to the Elminster for tea will go unanswered?

Grymia wrote:

I think that while yes, some of the Cosmic level threats could be scaled back, there's still plenty of potential for intermediate threats which could still be worthwhile to resolve.

At the same time, with the resources some characters have access to.. you do need to have typically smarter villains to have them last, to be honest.

this could work too, but with actand and abyss already here, the setting is already set for a level that rivals elminster in hell....its too easy to go into hell and challenge insanely powerful forces (in FR) settings.
A pit fiend entering faerun is a world changing event, just look at errtu and here its ..well everyday

Considering that Mages can cast Gate?

If you really wanted to reduce the local Pit Fiend visits... you WOULD need to switch 'er up.

And Yossi's got a point, it's easier to bump the NPCs then it is to force a server wide reduction.

Grymia wrote:

Considering that Mages can cast Gate?

If you really wanted to reduce the local Pit Fiend visits... you WOULD need to switch 'er up.

And Yossi's got a point, it's easier to bump the NPCs then it is to force a server wide reduction.

npc's should include devils, demons and dragons then.

Actand was poorly conceived, imo, and I would not have approved had I had a voice. But I think it was designed to appease a certain demand aand s a design exercise of sorts.

NPCs do include those things.

And I would hazard true Demons, Devils and Dragons WOULD get a bump up, (IE: Major plot villains)

Grymia wrote:

And I would hazard true Demons, Devils and Dragons WOULD get a bump up, (IE: Major plot villains)

that would go a long way in setting a more FR feel, venturing into the abyss and actand shouldnt be easy (as it relatively speaking is now) it should be the hardest thing there is..way beyond our power level, something you do in really strong groups, atleast that is my oppion

A 10 or 15-level cap would have been great. The game is more balanced and fun at lower levels. But it's a bit too late to go back now.

It's ultimately about the style and feel of the server. Fortunately, you can do much about that simply by revamping monsters and areas. Making certain spawns stronger and fewer would go a long way: instead of butchering two tribes worth of giants to get to a monarch, why aren't there just a few boss level giant plebs with a bunch of lowly servants? Most bosses are the ultimate high lords of their peoples on steroids. Why couldn't Dominagus or whatever just be the only Illithid around with a den of thralls? Killing a beholder is epic enough, no need to kill a few dozen. There are plenty of improvements you could make to the overall power level and feel of the server without touching the level range.

The Abyss is the biggest offender, but it's probably here to stay. No matter what you do about the spawns, the lore of travelling to an abyssal layer and not getting instagibbed by a wandering demon is pretty lame.

I personally think that a server where level 20 was the cap would be nice. 20 is acceptable, however I would not of made it easy to get there, and make it so the player base was majorly around the 10-15 level for the majority of their characters lives. I'd also maybe push the cap to 25, for extraordinary characters who actually worked for literally years to achieve it, and have them few and far between, likely one or two per alignment or some such, to halt the idea of them abusing such, but they would of course be trustworthy to achieve such a level anyway. (This idea was conceived by a tired and weary mind in a very short amount of time, and thus likely has many flaws, but feel free to expand and improve on the idea, or ignore it completely.)

Amia... what happens next? (cleaned)

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