Letum suggested that in the Level Range topic and Glim refined it a bit. A sort of front desk bell where experienced players would add their names, in the Entry, and new players could then contact those players for help. The name would stay there as long as you're online, so it would lists only those players who are actually present and available to show you around.

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I like newbies. I wanted Copper Industries to cater to newbies, actually, who might want a different venue of gaining xp and gold, rather than just grinding all the time. I'll try making another push to that effect!

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How about a business which purpose serves to group people together, send them on adventures, and gather treasures. Maybe for the company, maybe the companies purpose is to only pair people together. Can be done by a player too.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

Er.

How?

I don't say that to start an argument, I say that because I can honestly say I've done my best to get things rolling and none of the gears ever caught. Partially this is because I haven't managed to get any face time with DM's to make those things happen, and partially this is because I can't get players to take part. Both of these lead to the inevitable answer, 'Well, if people aren't into it maybe you shouldn't be doing it,' which is fair, except that we're currently talking about how to get people more involved, not less.

If the answer stands, that there is a dominant narrative to RP in Amia, and plot attempts that don't ring with the established player base won't get any mileage, then it's only fair that be made explicit. If we are trying to be inclusive, and create spaces for players who are motivated to make a mark, then there needs to be a commitment not only to the established narrative but to open spaces for new narratives to be established. Making people 'force it' only creates a tension and a sense of intrusion - and I speak from personal experience here.

Besides, really, there is no 'forcing it.' Let's say I wanted to take over the Lowlands Delta and set up a criminal racket there. Not anything profoundly evil, just some fixed games, loan sharking, standard low level criminal stuff. Plenty of fun, no need to have paladins breathing down your neck. But I can't do this on my own because I can't interact with NPC's without a DM, which means I need to get someone on the team to take my PM, show up in game, and be willing to let things go my way.

Alternately, you just try to be a gambler and play with PC's, which I've done, but it's bo-oring. You stand around waiting for ages until someone shows up, you hit them with your rap and if they're cool they'll play along, roll some bones, and move on. Then, back to waiting. And that still doesn't get into the really fun stuff of trying to run a crime syndicate.

So how do I force that?

I get that people are invested in their characters; I still tell stories about some of my most awesome PC's because they were that cool. I can completely empathize with why someone would not want to retire a character, but can you also then empathize with how frustrating it is to spend hours trying to get a plot or mini-event or whatever rolling to have it fall on its face, over and over again? All while watching level 30's that have been around for ages get to do awesome things with DM's and a pack of other players? It's god damned heart breaking.

I'm not trying to be an antagonist, but I do feel like I'm speaking for the players that don't prowl the forums, who don't have the OOC connections with other players, who don't feel like there's a place for their character's RP in Amia. It sucks. It sucks because there's so much awesome on the server - scripting, plots, events, whatever - and it's perpetually just out of reach.

If space can be made for motivated players to create it requires DM's and players to work together to create a compelling story with a role for (as close as we can get to) all. My experience has led me to believe that old guard characters are an obstacle to this because of how much attention and influence - IC and OOC - they receive. Come on: when the master of an order, or an established presence in the community, walks into the RP, the eyes are on them. It's the Matthew effect.

Maybe I'm wrong; I certainly don't have anything bound up in getting characters to retire. It just seems one of the most effective things we can do towards creating that open space. If someone wants to help me OOC get stuff started, please do PM me. I'm motivated and will make time for it. In the mean time, try consider how the people on the outside - people who aren't on the forums, who don't have OOC relationships with established players, whose awesome ideas don't fit into the dominant narrative of the server - are experiencing the game, and give a little thought to them.

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You dare mock the Tibbly one, catcherer of drowses?

I don't know if I agree about it being a purely IC solution. A guild or business like the one you describe A: requires the newbie to know about it IC and B: would be subject to IC influences, potentially rendering it sub-par due to allegiances and alliances (for example, if the new person wants to play an evil character, other established PCs would take umbrage with a business that facilitates assistance for said evilmonger).

I like the idea of an IC bell, but maybe just a thread or forum on the boards would do it. "New players please see this list of sanctioned Player Advocates for help in getting into Amia and learning the ropes!"

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Mathus, Void Apostle of the New Moon

This would be a way awesomer idea if the job system were at all designed for lowbies to be able to use well. A 50% failure rate on even the most routine jobs (even if the RNG wasn't utterly screwy), the majority of gatherable resources positioned where lowbies have no chance of getting to them, and an unimpressive XP reward? Not a lot there to keep a lowbie from getting kind of disheartened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the job system. Several of my characters use it a lot and get a lot of RP and fun out of it. But... my characters can go nearly anywhere, and have a 90% success rate.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

New venues to try? Time for brainstorming!

I've been keeping up on this topic and I like a lot of the ideas that're floating around, so I have a few plans brewing. If there are any other players (or DMs) interested in helping with Project New-Player/Character-Love, feel free to pm me or hit me up on MSN! I've been running a PC-driven faction for a while so I know well how much it hurts when player counts go down and there's no one to fill the orders we get anymore. I am totally for reaching out to the new people and would love any help that anyone wants to offer.

And Lizzie: I have to agree whole-heartedly. The Job System is great, but the insanely huge jump in how effective it is as you gain levels makes it difficult to start out using it. A lot of people I've talked to don't use it till they're high enough level to Master something.

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Honeydew had something like that with the adventurer's guild. Unfortunately, it's been dead

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Yea, the problem with the adventuring guild is there is not really a lot to adventure. I had hoped for some classical d&d / dark eye adventure rp, but besides one spontaneous event that was not continued we had little to do. Nobody really recruited the services and just doing hunting areas is tiresome. I would love to revive it as it got a great bunch of people together, but I would need someone dependable to help me with it and some fresh ideas.

Have your people call my people and we'll do lunch.

What I meant to say is that I saw a few posts saying "this is how other people should behave, and then everything will be fine". I think that's not really working. You'll get disappointed because people don't behave like you want. And right they are, that's what makes people so much fun.

But I also see a lot of enthusiasm, and I really appreciate it. Don't call me the big boss, though. I may be running the machine, but I am barely involved running the game outside the holidays.

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Say 'no' to JSBF!

Newbies that want to break in need only hurl plot requests at my inbox.

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There is something which could help out new players, imo the perfect mythal quest was very nice for starting chars, and it was nice to get a substantial reward from a quest which wasn't a expandable charge item and also something everyone could use. I understand that IC things have happened and Simon died, but maybe somewhere else there is another quest for it? Something a 10+ char could do with a party.

Also, regarding the porting system and Cordor. Though we all agree that IG facts have changed the city, and they want a new firmer grip of the law, it was nice to join amia, and soon after find yourself inside this highly adventurer populated area, here you could Ic'ly ask someone for information about the server.
And for a city that thrived on trade, and worshipped wakueen, it seems a bit out of context to enforce politics that turn it into ghosttown.

Though we could say that Cordor is now crime free, and that no one is getting away from IC actions, sadly that does leave one faction rather blanked out, which would be the otherwise popular Cordorian guard, the blackflag and other criminal organizations also would have been a double end knife so to say, working to their own ends, but also accepting payment to seek "troublemakers" and bring them to their contractors. (Alas, what is so bad about evil getting away with something sometimes, at least for the short while)

Yoss replies that IC things could be made to improve Cordor in that direction if so is needed, perhaps peititions to the commonwealth and whatnot, but to major lvl 30 chars, it doesn't seem to have warranted such IG attention, as they aren't the ones who need it most, with their busy schedules, resourcefull porting locations and ongoing plots and adventures, rather, leaving new players and chars to their own chance.

I think the whole forum aspect of the game is, or can be, quite off putting for new players, and old players too. There you are, in game, embarking on a cool new adventure in Amia, having great fun meeting new people and characters, watching stories adapt and change right there in front of your eyes, the stuff the RP and DM Praise threads are made of, having fun interesting dynamic RP.
Then somehow it changes, you have to put in an application, make a request, make a budget, plan your whole characters life, past, present, and future, change your whole mindset from fun, in-game, dynamic RP, to mind numbing, work-like paperwork, applications, essays and assignments that resemble the RL work/job BS drudgery that a lot of people are here to escape from.

It's your character, there's nobody else who can make those requests happen. Work is an every day thing, requests are one-time expenditures of your time and effort (unless you place more requests). I know that writing in-game and on the forum or otherwise are very different things, it can be very frustrating to not have the right wording or not have researched the lore enough to make it convincing. But in most cases, there is an end in sight and a reward for your effort that doesn't require you to clock in on Monday.

Playing a game does require effort. It is demanding and tiring. The difference is that you set the hours and you choose what happens. Oh yeah and it's fun, for the most part.

There are far less demanding things that you can do in real life, is what I'm saying. Hell, with the constant sleep disruption that people are prone to nowadays, it isn't unreasonable to take a nap as soon as you get home.

Let's just refrain from becoming like Vogons. Too much bureaucracy can be a right pain in the ass. Having to put effort into it is one thing, having to constantly go to the forums to write up a form and sell an idea to the DMs for everything you want to do with a character is another thing.

+1

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

I agree to an extent. But do you have specific examples of policies that should be slightly changed? It's well and good to say "too much bureaucracy", but much harder to find the places where we can cut back on it. I hope nobody's seriously suggesting making fey a freely playable race again, for example. I have my own opinions that specifically concern emulating Prestige Classes, but I doubt they're the foremost thing on your mind anyhow.

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I'll consider that, but first, you'll have to submit a form. And listen to some of my poetry.

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Playing:
Marcus Valis

If someone simply turning the "off" switch on portal rods has wiped out criminal roleplay in Cordor entirely, as you suggest, then this reveals that the problem in that situation does not lie with the DM Team, but rather with the players. Criminal RP happened (wouldn't say it flourished, but it happened) in a time before we ever had portal rods in the first place.

The only things that have changed to affect criminal roleplay in Cordor is the removal of portal rods that will work as your instant scott-free getaway and the fact that you can face some genuine consequences for your crimes...as can the officers and agents who pursue you, NPC and PC, according to the Cordor: Serious Mode sticky in GD.

I really don't like being a prick about this point, but it's true. Those things do not make criminal roleplay impossible. They just give criminal roleplay the necessary difficulty and risk (to increase the tension) it should have for everybody on both sides of the fence. If you aren't engaging in criminal roleplay in Cordor because of those reasons, then it is because you want to be able to laugh, thrust your OOC middle finger, and port away with a portal rod like some idiot villain from a 1980s syndicated cartoon or because you don't want to risk having your PC fleeced of money, goods, crammed in jail for a long time or, at worst, executed.

I don't particularly listen much to the complaints on the forums about this, btw, because criminal rp does happen in Cordor, and since I have been making things clearer about "how it all works" in this thread, people are beginning to realize the above: that wanting to play a criminal and complaining that you can't do it in Cordor only reveals you as a player who wants a win button.

I apologize if that sounds like aggressive or combative. It isn't. It's just the reality of the situation and I am surprised no one is able to cut through the bullshit and see it.

Que?

When do you have to do all that? The closest thing is the Requests forum ... which makes complete sense.



Also, everything Yoss just said. I mean, seriously, that's common sense people.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

On the criminal RP note, I'm curious to get something clarified: is the city now free of criminal enterprise, or just free of PC's involved in criminal enterprises?

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You dare mock the Tibbly one, catcherer of drowses?

I haven't even bothered commenting on the portal rod question, because I find it completely beside the point. I seriously doubt not being able to port away instantaneously is the reason Cordor has been a bit empty (wut?). That makes no sense and doesn't inconvenience RP at all.

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I believe the consensus is that it's just the PC's, but Yoss will correct me if I am wrong.


Exactly. Cordor was actually pretty populated the other day in the square, and another time but slightly less so. People were standing around, which was cool. The Market is getting a lot of activity as well, mostly thanks to Eurgiga as Corinn. But not being able to portal is merely just annoying, it shouldn't detract from RP.

Actually, it's nice because now people are not portalling in the middle of the busy city (remember that there are a ton of NPCs around, even if they are not on screen), which undoubtedly pissed a lot of people off as well.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

... but it does. People avoid going there. (And when I say "people," what I actually mean is, "I do this, and I assume I'm not the only one.") I'm not a whole lot into the loot-grinding thing, but when a character of mine has managed to collect up a bunch of loot to offload and wants to sell it off, maybe check the marketplaces, maybe stock up on some potions or whatever, I go somewhere else. Kohlingen or Wiltun, usually. Because it's annoying getting back out of Cordor.

I'm not really saying I'm especially bothered by this, since the alternatives are just as good. But elsewhere in this thread it seemed that people were more or less in agreement that having a flourishing hub of general social RP was a desirable thing. Like what Amia Forest or Cordor Square used to be. A place with constant foot traffic and a steady rabble of loiterers.

I kind of feel a bit silly bringing all this up as a counterpoint, because I'm certainly not of the opinion that letting portal rods work in Cordor again will be an instant cure-all that will have players flocking back to the server in droves. And Cordor is the way it is for pretty solidly justifiable IC reasons. (And I'm not qualified to have an opinion on criminal RP.) I only mean to call into question the statement that the restriction doesn't affect RP at all, because it does.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

I don't know, it just seems to me ironic and comical that the restriction would make Cordor LESS populated. You can port in just fine, but how does making it easier to get out make people stay inside?

But yeah, I suppose you have a point about people like you who just want to stop by a big city to sell their junk and use some services. All my PCs have a base of operations that is a city, and for most it's naturally Cordor.

But even if the portal issue is not changed IC, there can be other changes to make Cordor more appealing. Hoping to see some in the future.

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I have some Idea's for Cordor. But whether they will ever come to fruition or not, will depend entirely on IC events.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

Turning all of Cordor into an undead city doesn't count, jim :p

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Cordor got empty due to the portal rods because you could not port in, sell off your goods in the market hall, then port back to your hunting spot.

This made people go to other places where such is possible

Ironically, having to walk through the city to sell your goods could potentially generate RP.

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The best way to get by in this world is to "believe" whatever everyone else in the room seems to hold dear. It keeps you alive and sometimes makes you richer in the process. And if the popular wind changes? Smile a lot and run like hell.

And so a little piece of my faith is restored. I have been waiting for a player to realize that.

You make it seem like Cordor's population sunk because people just wanna hunt and only RP when they can get in and get out without the RP causing them too much delay in getting back to their hunting.

Honestly, I think if Cordor's PC population has decreased, it's only because other places have seen a boost in activity. Even if we're showing a shortage in the number of players we have currently, I think our playerbase is more widespread than it's been a long time (proportionately).

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Yeah I do not see the issue. I mean, really, it doesn't take ten minutes to do this and get out of Cordor again. I have done it lots of times.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

This was not my plan! That maybe Mathan's plan.. But he has a mind of his own.

Also, people who use cordor as just a sale spot, from my experience don't generate RP. They port in, sell, port out, and usually ignore everyone along the way. While making Portal Rods usable in Cordor may bring in more activity, I do not see it bringing in any more RP.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

I agree with that. It would be disastrous if there was too much freedom as far as things like subraces are concerned.

Had it not been for me playing a devout of Shaundakul, who you can get down on your knees and praise portals for, I'd say get rid of the bloody things. Lazy gits. A bit of walking has never hurt anyone*

*Except wealthy merchants, well to do merchants, merchants, priests, gypsies, caravans, lone women and everyone else who walk the roads

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

To detract from the current line of thought, I've had an idea I'd like to present for constructive picking apart to determine if it can be sorely abused. I'm working on a PC-based questing system that will work with or without this idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there and see if it's possible:

Essentially, would it be possible to allow faction leaders or certain characters who go through a "quest giver" approval process (or however it would have to be restricted) a widget which will allow them to give small amounts of XP, say limited to once per character per day (as an example), to other PCs who complete PC-given quests?

I personally love the idea of PC-given quests. While it does come with the understanding that the "quest giver" will have to have a solid knowledge of the server and where to send PCs of a certain level (maybe someone could write up a manual for "quest-givers"), I think it could really create some more interaction between old and new characters and players alike - with or without the incorporation of the above XP-widget.

What do you think?

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Heh, I could really use that widget!

Given the discussion with complete fear of abuse of an extended level range, the likelihood of someone getting a PC side XP widget has a snowballs chance in hell from where I'm sitting.

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Jys'zyne Do'larn

Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?

I personally think it can be restricted enough that it can't be abused much at all. Who wants to rely on 200xp/RL day to level up (again, an example)? That is, if it's mechanically possible to restrict it as much as I'm thinking.

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It is the same idea as having a widget that allows faction leaders to pay pc's. (Similar to the Cordorian guard payroll widget.) If it is scriptable then I would wager that it has got more than a snowball's chance in hell. It's a great idea, and in the hand of a few trusted pc's who've proven they won't abuse rules or trust? Why the hell not?

Give some amazing pc interaction for new folks and veterans alike and that's a formula guaranteed to add some great role play to the server.

Edit: And honestly? I can't see anyone wanting to abuse that, or stick around 24/7 and just whack people with xp. Script a limit and why not experiment with this idea? (Not to say it is not a lot of work for the scripters. You amazing nerds, you.)

To be honest I would prefer a (spawnable) NPC that a DM can possess to do the quest giving and rewarding because that way you're getting consistency, it isn't weaksauce advancement for the effort the party is putting in, and a DM has more tools in their box to make it enjoyable.

Yes, I realise I just told you all to ask the designers to furnish your faction with an NPC. Like they don't have enough work to be getting on with. MY BAD.

I don't think that a scripted XP wand is that big of a motivator. Why bother if you can persuade a DM to log in and have some fun with you for a change? I mean it's not like they're going to throw you at some Borg cube and say 'deal with it.'

Well, the point was to encourage interaction between old players and new players. There are a ton of old players who love interacting with new players and I think a PC-given questing system could give fuel to that fire. One of my favorite memories on this server was that time I joined the Grove and Alitha sent my character on quests to retrieve certain items to prove herself. Need more of that!

PC-to-PC. DM interaction is great, yes, but the whole point was for the PC-to-PC interaction it could beget, and thus potential for future RP. Not the uber xp or loot reward.

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Interaction will not happen just because you dangle a carrot and wait for a new character to jump.

I have a difficult time relating to a character that is a blank character sheet. I have a difficult time even when the player actually bothers to fill it out, but doesn't have the courage to start new interactions. It really has to be a two-way street, not a whenever-I-feel-like-it street.

Relying on small XP awards to get players to come back is a cheap trick that will quickly get overplayed. If you want to give them a solid reason to stick with you, it has to be deeper than just what you can do to speed their character advancement along.

At the risk of sounding like an ass, who decides who should be trusted with that widget, and how? I'm sure that there's competent people out there who could get denied this "priviledge" due to the simple fact that they're not famous enough within the community to "be trusted with it"



Why not reward people with items and/or gold instead? No need for fancy widgets, and I think that most people would prefer a valuable (relatively speaking) artifact over XP, especially if it's a small amount of XP we're talking about. Besides, just being able to interact with, and earn the respect of a character/faction by running errands for them should be good enough.

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The best way to get by in this world is to "believe" whatever everyone else in the room seems to hold dear. It keeps you alive and sometimes makes you richer in the process. And if the popular wind changes? Smile a lot and run like hell.

You're right, it should be good enough. In my experience, people don't stick around solely for that, though.

Selmak, let me explain better:

I run a faction that's heavily focused on player interaction, availability, and activity. Copper Industries is difficult to run when you have so little to offer people for their troubles. There are some people in the faction right now who put in a lot of time and effort for little to no reward at all, but it keeps the faction going nonetheless. Not everyone is capable or willing to do that. Giving them incentive, rewards, and inspiration is what I'm tasked to do, as the faction leader. It's not dangling a carrot and waiting for a new character to jump (frankly, I think you're just being harshly contrary to the idea because you're not personally interested in it). It's showing appreciation in a certain niche of RP that's already really hard to reward outside of a limited supply of coin. The same goes for a lot of other niches that take a lot of effort for little to no reward.

People like to feel as if they've accomplished something. At lower levels a small amount of XP like that can be a real reward, and for some it can be enough to catch their interest to the point that they'll come back. You're not looking at the RP aspect of this. I already said that the idea of quest-givers can work without the xp widget. It was just an idea to supplement all the other stuff you're advocating that I already said would be taking place.

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Incentives is something I've been struggling with as well. Gold and gear don't cut it when everyone in the faction is already better off than I am There's nothing material for working for the city short of watching it grow. XP won't do it for max level characters either. It''s been something that's been tossed back and forth ICly without much luck.

Well I have experienced the other side of the coin, that is, where XP is being given out so readily and freely that it's disturbing.

I'm not saying that's where this is going. I'm just saying, you run the risk of rewarding someone for doing too little, and then it becomes an expectation to do something trivial to get a daily reward, and if you then don't give it, that's when players can get nasty and leave.

So I'm sorry if it seems like I'm dead set against it for the sake of being against it. I don't want you to make your own day on the server a living hell. I don't want you to lose players from your faction over something like this. I don't want players getting upset and leaving the server because so-and-so wouldn't give them XP.

You could argue that players like that aren't the mature and level-headed sort that we want around anyway and I would agree with you in principle, but we don't have the luxury of being picky.

If you want to really reward a player, make them put in the time and effort on more than one task. Let them demonstrate their work ethic. Snag a DM's sleeve on their tenth job and get them to do an NPC possession. And so instead of just getting a reward for doing a good job, you've got some sort of meaning behind it all, as the merchant explains that the supply of trinkets and things has helped them to make a living and support their family. Huzzah! Job satisfaction.

+1

Leave the XP giving to the DMs. If players get XP wands, others might start seeking them out with less-than-pure intentions, and, as Selmak says, things can get nasty when people have expectations of you and you don't meet them. That's the reason why I think we, the players, should focus on tangible rewards: gold and/items.
IMHO, If you REALLY want to reward a player, hit them with the dc recommendation wand. That'll put them under the DM radar.

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The best way to get by in this world is to "believe" whatever everyone else in the room seems to hold dear. It keeps you alive and sometimes makes you richer in the process. And if the popular wind changes? Smile a lot and run like hell.

As much as I understand what you're saying, Selmak, I really don't like the idea of having to snag a DM every time my character meets someone new and wants to help them out by giving them something to do. That's about the only reason I thought of this idea. I play in "peak times" and rarely see a DM on. It's a bit counterproductive to spam the DM channel and hope the DM is free when someone completes a task or someone new wants to speak with a quest-giving NPC when the task could just as easily come from a clever PC. Having to wait around for a delayed reward, if I can find a DM who's not busy, isn't going help a new player with job satisfaction. And I'm sure plenty of players are perfectly capable of winding a story with the given task in a way that it can make the quest-taker feel like they've made a difference in someone's story.

You keep coming back to the NPC requiring a DM possession point, but that's the part that would bog down such interactions. It's a simple and short thing, yes, but the truth of any scarcity in DM Land will hinder such a system.

I would like to hear a DM's opinion of my suggestions, though. I really think you guys aren't giving your own playerbase enough credit. I've never met anyone on Amia who'd be as petty as what you describe.

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