AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Lizzie wrote:

I have an excellent idea what the law means. I play one of the few active members of the Dale militia that's responsible for enforcing the law, and I witnessed precisely how it was enforced, many times. Even if it was intended to only target the "bad guys," that's not how it was implemented. PC merchants were harassed and driven off, people just standing around having innocent conversations on the hills outside the gates were told to take their business elsewhere.

You're perfectly correct about what the law was *intended* to do. What we actually ended up doing with it was very, very different.

Gotta agree with Liz on this one. My goodly druid, if any of you remember her, spent a considerable amount of time in the Dale. She's a pacifist personality, and not one to cause trouble. Soon as that law went in though, she was gone. She'd stop and chat for a brief moment passing someone on the road, and without fail, would be immediately harassed by a squadron of rabid little halflings and their Triadic helpers. She was a fairly well-known face too, so it's not like anyone had reason to be suspicious of her. Never a polite invitation to come inside, but always a somewhat rude "move along" sort of spiel before stomping off to harass someone else. My character reached the logical conclusion that the village was no longer a welcoming hub to socialize, and stopped trying.

Sure, it was all IC. So was not coming back to be harassed repeatedly. I find it extremely...silly...to argue that it wasn't the law that turned the town to a ghost town. It might not have been it's -intention-, but the effect is very clear to some of us, both IC and OOC.

Bendir Dale didn't turn into a ghost town until after a specific event.
It's when the core group there had had enough of all the BS and quit or moved on to other characters.
With that heart gone, the rest of the Dale just faded away, everyone moving on to other places where there were actually people.

RP flourished after that law. We did NOT harass people (Excepting Waldo and his crew of miscreants), we politely asked them to bring their conversation inside the walls. Most of the time they did and RP continued.
But people kept harassing US, both from without and from within.
I was there A LOT. Almost exclusively, in fact. I'm not pulling things out of my ass.

The law, now, however, is an artifact of a situation that no longer exists and should rightly be removed as it would have had people been around to deal with its removal. I'm just tired of people demonizing Bendir Dale as it existed earlier this year because they hold inane grudges.

I think you're taking this way too personally. I'm not demonizing anyone or anything, and I'm not holding any grudges. All I'm saying is that some people, on some occasions, went way overboard with the loitering law, and it made many people feel unwelcome. I'd cite the "Amia, what happened" thread as evidence: when discussing the demise of the server's major RP hubs, people were naming Bendir Dale alongside Fort Wiltun as an example of how to drive away RP.

*Wiltun*, for pete's sake. Bendir Dale was being compared, not favorably, to a repressive totalitarian despotism. A place that maintains one of the server's most-used dungeons, has a dedicated executioner, and thinks staging public beheadings during a high-profile wedding is a rockin' good idea.

I'm not blaming any one person, or group of people. My character Daisy was there the whole time, and didn't really do anything to stop the collapse, either, so I'm as much to blame as anybody. I'm not even saying the loitering law was the only cause, though I do feel quite certain it was the largest contributing cause. But it also didn't help that we started nagging people about their hoods and weapons at the same time.

If a place makes people feel unwelcome, if it nags and bullies them and tries to micromanage where they're allowed to stand and what they're allowed to wear, they'll leave. That's not an especially controversial statement.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I'm going to leave this open for a few more days in case we get some stragglers. The loitering law is now on my hit list.

I don't really have an issue with the helmet rule per se (as a Law) either OOCly or ICly, although the mechanical gates and incessant NPC barking of "take your helmet off" is grating. In Cordor, it's less of an issue because the gates are so far from the typical RP zones and Cordor is so large that you don't need to stand near the gates to RP if it annoys you. In Bendir, the square is small and no matter where you stand if someone enters/exits you get a stream of NPC text scrolling up the screen. Thoughts on returning to "normal" opening and closing gates but leaving the law as written? I've never liked it on an OOC level and Missus gets so annoyed that she has to take off her "hat" all the time and muss her hair up that it's an IC no-no too.

I'm looking for volunteers to participate in RP sessions in the coming weeks to discuss matters in-game ICly. Go ahead and comment here if you are willing.

maglorine wrote:

I'm looking for volunteers to participate in RP sessions in the coming weeks to discuss matters in-game ICly. Go ahead and comment here if you are willing.

Daisy's in.

It's interesting how inaccurate people's memories are on the actual accounts of how events took place. Obviously, just as there are individuals who pretend the Holocaust never happened, people can and will deny anything they want to to facilitate in the fabrication of their own realities. But what people remember and don't remember really isn't all that important. I'm commenting because I feel how utterly unfair it was for maglorine to be left with this burden, despite the discussions I have had with the DMs, and because I genuinely care about the remaining members of the community that I once played and shared great memories with during one of the more difficult times in my life.

What I mostly dealt with in my own time as mayor is a lot of people saying they hate this, and they hate that, with absolutely no help offered to me whatsoever when it came to actually getting anything done So in the end, it didn't really matter what they did want or didn't want. It was about the active members of the community and what I could do to help them the most. If you want to change something, I think you should put something in motion.

Like with real life policy, there are two problems that I frequently encountered. One is just how long things take to change. Only thing I really championed for OOCly was the gate, so I can't really comment on how OOC discussion like these factors into the time it took for things to happen, but everything I helped to put into motion was an extremely long process. Many things may have been decided ICly, but hardly blossomed in game. This has to do with the complex nature of Amia where we have the player base, the DMs, the developers, and how those changes are received in game. You can't just decide and things happen. Some things we didn't want stayed, some things we wanted was turned down. Even if an ICly reached upon proposal was accepted by the Staff, now we are talking about asking the developers to take their times out of their lives for no pay at all to make module change for our community. This can make something simple as putting in an NPC in an extremely arduous task and it can even be influenced by people's moods on all sides, just because we are all humans and we have lives/stresses beyond the game itself. Some things also were difficult to implement just because the significance of seemingly inane change were not understood by the staff. The food merchant stall in the Dale is a great example. It took many months to complete, for a seemingly very little change, that is a great help to a certain cute and tiny adorable kobold for pie making goodness.

The second problem I often encountered on the policy end is that the situation is never ideal. I for one was an avid opponent of both the hat thing and the loitering thing. People don't remember me as that, I'm sure, but that's because what people know me for is trying to enforce them over the times that I've spoke against them. In fact, people who had bothered to actually interact with my character, would have heard that Laurel wanted to eliminate the loitering policy even as far back as when she was running for Mayor. What people often don't acknowledge is the reasons behind a policy being enforced or why they remained to be a law in the first place. It's no different than real life politics. Just as the saying goes that "Political scientists are bad politicians", it's easy to be critical after the fact when you have all of the historical accounts to analyze with. But the present is a dynamic open-ended system in which the most minor event can alter the course of the future. I think my mayoral run was a great example of that. I never created Laurel with the intention of becoming the Mayor. I created her at a time where the Dale was dying away because of PvPing on both sides (Dale and non-Dale residents) over the most inane events that were portrayed as some kind of a controversy, while the real issues that the Dale had were constantly ignored because of the hyperbole that surrounded trivial matters. It was a point where everything was treated like the boy that cried wolf. When we had an actual wolf, everyone said, "No. That's just you shorties being melodramatic". And when people paid attention, sometimes, it really was just us shorties being melodramatic. So we all made decisions, sometimes irrationally, but many times with the best of intentions, to preserve and further RP.

If you think the previous generation failed, all you can do is to move forward. I think if Amia community spent less time complaining and actually put the same amount of effort into actually moving forward with their vision, a lot of things would be very successful. Many of the changes I help to implement were not my ideas. They were ideas other people had, but didn't think it would work. We sat down, got RP going, and constantly fought for what changes to be brought forward: Not on this forum, but in game and directly with the staff.

EDIT: I posted this before mags/Lizzie posted directly above me! So I'm sorry I can't go back and take those two posts into account.

Not sure who you're reacting to exactly, Tomato, but if you felt accused or belittled by what I've been saying, I apologize. I didn't intend to single anyone out, especially not Laurel IC nor you OOC. Laurel inherited a crappy situation, made the best of it, and dealt with it... if not perfectly, then at least decisively. And I definitely don't recall seeing Laurel doing anything IC to make anyone feel unwelcome in the Dale. The opposite, in fact.

This thread is not intended as a referendum on what happened back in the day so please let's not turn it into that. I'm just trying to deal with the situation as it exists now based on my observations. Things have changed, not just in Bendir but on the server in general. We'll try to make the best of it and have an area that people enjoy visiting IC. Some things we try IC will work, others will not. Some things will stay the same, others we will try a different approach. Suggestions welcome.

Some RP started today, thanks to those who were there, you know who you are.

hmmm..curiousity does have its strong points..

~_^

Hour Two

"Godo the Goblin"

Just my luck. I'm out patrolling doing my duty and this slimey git is doing sum of his best work accosting travelers near the Orc Hills.

I wanted to gut the worm but it wasn't standing Bendir Territory.
Spouting his usual rubbish about his drow mistresses and slaves and folk still foolish enough to listen to him. I ended up wandering' off cus I was bored.

Guess I better let the Mayor know that Godo is wandering around again. I wouldn't call him dangerous to most folk, not physically, but he's a snake-tongue who keeps comin' back time and time again - he's bound to eventually hurt somebody. As my Granpoppy used to say. "It's a numbers game"

P.S He's scared of me.

*This letter is hand delivered to Town Elders and Militia Officers only (both PC and NPC), and is stamped "your eyes only"*

All,
A meeting of the Town Elders is requested at your earliest convenience. A matter of some import has crossed my desk which requires serious deliberation. My determination is that it does not fall within my Mayoral powers to decide without consultation. Please advise a time suitable for your person.

Mayor Missus

//requesting DM assistance to possess General Nof, Tak Rosen, Skit, Holl, etc.
//suitable time for me would be 11pm @GMT-5 (US Eastern Timezone) let's say Tuesday or Wednesday this week.

Lieutenant Daisy sends her letter back to Missus's desk with two responses: First, a big loopy circle drawn around the word "Elder," with an arrow pointing to a spot in the margin where she's written "I'm twenty-one!" Second, a signature at the bottom of the note, just below the words, "I'll be there!"

// If we're voting on those times, the Wednesday night would work better for me, probably.

// Can't make either of those I'm afraid, have fun though!

Friends and allies, you've received this letter as a summons to the citadel of Barak Runedar on the morning of the 7th day of Marpenoth. Send a representative with authority to speak on the behalf of your people for planning and discussions. The time is past to coordinate informations gathered and formulate an attack plan and defenses. We have dallied long enough! Join us friends and allies in defeating this evil, eradicating our foes from this realm, and restore a measure o peace to Barak Runedar, Brogendenstein, and beyond.

~Signed
High Councilor Reddok BloodAxe

// Going to have this meeting in place of our usual council meeting @ 15:00 GMT (10AM EST -5 GMT) on Sunday 10/7.

Hmm... I like the suggested changes Mags, I know I've been away for sometime, but I'll try to get on a bit more and contribute in some way ICly. Hopefully at the very least some RP will be generated

maglorine wrote:

This thread is not intended as a referendum on what happened back in the day so please let's not turn it into that. I'm just trying to deal with the situation as it exists now based on my observations. Things have changed, not just in Bendir but on the server in general. We'll try to make the best of it and have an area that people enjoy visiting IC. Some things we try IC will work, others will not. Some things will stay the same, others we will try a different approach. Suggestions welcome.

Some RP started today, thanks to those who were there, you know who you are.

There's never any point in pointing blame over past actions.
What's happened has happened.
I'm always surprised when people mention 'OOC' tells, PMs and drama.
I've never had any OOC gripes with anyone on the server.
Part of RP is to "Roll with the Punches"
Nothing good ever comes from complaining things that happen In-Game. I feel sorry for those whom have to deal with OOC PM's, tells and messages. It's a game after all. We play to have fun. I don't think we should be hassling any players with PMs and tells. Especially those in positions of power who have given there time to try and grow a community. The same can be applied to hassling DMs.

//Ok, lets shoot for Tuesday at 11pm US Eastern Time.

*a date and time are posted*

9th of Elient at 11 bells past midday.

*note left for Militia personnel*

Dentiah Nottian, an evil dragonkin has returned and seems to have visited our Dale. His ban remains in force. Anyone expressing too great an interest in his posted notice should be noted and reported to an officer.

*His description is recirculated to all the border and gate guards.*

//I will be there, a few minutes from this posting. But the DM I was in contact with has not confirmed the time, so we may need to reschedule.

//alright, we are shooting for the 22nd, 23rd, or 24th. Thats Mon/Tues/Wed @ 11PM EST. Gunz looks to be available. I think any of those days will work for me. If active players can respond we'll pick the one with the mostest.

// Tuesday or Wednesday would be equally good for Daisy; Monday I'd be definitely out.

Wednesday is off the table for me.

//Tuesday night (tomorrow). Start time between 10 and 11PM Eastern US time. (GMT-5)
//Thanks!

//Starting an hour from this posting. In the Townhall.

//starting now.

A visitor reports that a human male setup a sign near the cart station recruiting for "assassins". All
citizens should be alerted and notify a guardsman if such activity is witnessed. I will not accept recruitment for such nefarious and villainous employment on our lands.

Mayor Missus
*wax stamp affixed in the image of a wagon wheel*

//AThe notice has been removed

To the Good Citizens of Bendir Dale,

Any person in the fair city of Bendir Dale that wishes to assist in the feeding of the besieged dwarves of Barak Runedar, please see Sir Jerand Whiterose immediately in Kohlingen.

A food drive is being started to assist the dwarves and runs will be made every other day. Donations of any food stuffs and storage boxes are greatly appreciated. Gold is also accepted if you can not transport quantities of food.

Donations can be left in City Hall, the Barracks or possibly in the near future, the warehouse of Copper Industries. Please mark items addressed to go to the "Aid For Barak Runedar".

Triad's Blessings,

Sir Jerand Whiterose
Paladin of Ilmater
Shield of Ilmater

Missus took some instruction the past few weeks from the Orcharder Trainer (played by Manarethan I think) to start some trees for a Cherry orchard on the north side of the river. I'm hoping these can be represented in game by saplings for some period of time and eventually grow into trees for proper orcharding after a suitable period of growth.

All Militia Members are instructed to see the Mayor to be issued Silver Short Swords in the event of another incursion of the massive werecreature which rampaged through our lands this week. I have secured a number of them for all active troopers.

Mayor Missus
*wagon wheel stamp*

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