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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 
ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 27 2020, 20:41 PM 

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Joined: 12 Dec 2012

Hey everyone. Your favorite local cowboy here. I proposed a change to the Cavalry class to a couple people but I would like to get feedback from everyone who has it.

Current status:
REQUIREMENTS:
BAB 10+
Ride Skill 10

- Hit die: d10
- Proficiencies: Armor (light, heavy, medium), Shields, Weapons (martial, simple)
- Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
- Class skills: Concentration, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Discipline, Heal, Lore, Parry, Ride, Spot, Taunt, Intimidate
- Base attack bonus progression: 1
- Saving throws: Fighter

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):
Level 1: Cavalry Mount Feat (3x Use a Rest), Speed Boost 10%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 40 hp
Level 2: Temp HP Granted on Mount: 80 hp, Bonus Feat
Level 3: Speed Boost 20%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 120 hp, 1 AB/Damage while Monunted
Level 4: Temp HP Granted on Mount: 160 hp, Bonus Feat
Level 5: Speed Boost 30%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 200 hp, 1 AB/Damage while Monunted

Ranged Weapons cannot be used when mounted except the short bow and only after you have both the mounted combat and mounted archery feats. (Note: Both of these feats add nothing stat wise while mounted).

Bonus Feats
All Fighter Bonus feats except Weapon Spec.

Cavalry Mount Feat
At level one upon gaining the feat you are given a widget that lets you alternate between different horse styles. There are currently 20 different horses you can switch between. There are four main colors (Walnut, Gunpowder, Spotted, and Black) and each of these four has 5 main variants. These variants are standard horse w/ saddle, horse w/ leather barding, horse w/ scale mail barding, horse w/ purple bardings, and horse w/ red bardings.

Your AC while mounted will be calculated based off of your riding skill. You will lose tumble AC while mounted and instead gain 1 AC per 5 levels of Ride.


Proposal: Change Cavalry max level to 10. Keep the same requirements, skill points, and saves. Make horse add +40 HP on odd levels, get a fighter feat (less WS/EWS) on even levels. Capstone feat of Blinding Speed at 10.

Reasons: There are a couple reasons behind this. First and foremost it was brought to my attention that it would be all too easy to allow a number of classes the full benefit of three classes using the 5 levels. By full benefit I mean combinations like 20 Bard/5 Cav/5 KC so you not only max out the two prestige classes but also get Lasting Inspiration. On a paladin you'd get the 20 levels to max out your spell slots along with all the Cavalry goodies and your choice of Field Medicus, Master Scout, or KC maximums. How about your Rogue/BG/Cav that gets max horse and an Epic Fiend. (I worked out similar with a Monk who just cheeses the monk stuff for free feats while being Big Nasty Armored Man.) By setting Cavalry to 10 levels you get to make people decide if they want to be a Super X, Y, or Z, not Super XYZ.

By expanding it to 10 levels with bonus feats on the evens you are giving people incentive to pick this as an alternative to (more) fighter. It is comparable to DC with feats but without the saves and without Purge Infidel.

The Blinding Speed thing is indicative of a cavalier being able to charge into battle. Not absolutely key to my idea but you have many of these new classes getting anywhere from one to five free epic feats and I figure it's fair without being overkill.

So, tell me what you think.

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Kuria - Lawful Misunderstood

Tyrone Stormont - Diplomat


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 12:03 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Personally, I find cavalry class to be an already somewhat underwhelming class, mechanically. Temp hp isn't all that great, because when it's gone, it's gone. And what you're suggesting is spreading out the exact same benefits over a larger level spread. The only thing gained is blinding speed, and that, as sad as it is, is a pretty underwhelming feat. If it had a cooldown, or scaled with character level, or something, maybe. But as it stands, it's a single player-made haste pot.

You talk about the BG that has max horse and EFS. But max horse is, what? 200 temp hp, 2 AB, 2 damage, and 30% speed? At the same time, going rog/ftr/BG also gains two feats, (admittedly, it eats those two up right away as well, due to EWS) and gains a rogue bonus feat. Better damage, same AC, Crippling Strike or ImpEvasion, and is more reliable, due to not being able to take the horse inside places? Meanwhile, Cavalry eats up more skill points, due to pretty much needing tumble and ride at 30. And you lose two AB, and a potential 600 temp hp for it.
Alternatively, compare with MS, which also gains 2 AB, not tied to riding the horse. It should be the same areas MS and horse triggers, though. Or, at least, a lot of overlap. cav gets a larger speed boost, but in general, any speed boost is enough to be able to outrun folks. Meanwhile, MS has a better feat selection, arguably better skill selection (tumble versus taunt), more skills, and better saves. yes, cav has a better BAB progression, but... all in all, in my opinion, MS wins out slightly. Not by too much, cav isn't bad, but...I wouldn't suggest making it worse, mechanically. And requiring more levels for the same benefits definitely makes it worse.

And to me, it seems pretty cool exactly that it doesn't interfere with builds too hard. You can still be that proper 24 Pally/Cav, and... Rogue Monk, whereas with your suggestion, you're locking yourself to either be a sub-par horseman, or a sub-par paladin. That said, I am a bit biased, because I very much like 5 level classes, because they don't interfere with most builds too hard.medium-high WM still works with 12/13/5, casters with 24/5/1, or 23/5/2. Arguably, BGs and dexers get the least out of it, because it's a bit awkward for BGs to end up with 9 levels of something, where 10 rog or fighter generally is better, and EDodgers... You can either go SD, and have 15 levels of soemthing open, or rogue, and have 12, which is slightly less awkward. Assassin, imo, is the least awkward of the bunch, with 6/19ass/5. But most builds manage well enough with a 5-level class. 10 can be a bit hard to fit in, and it really needs some good bang for its buck, which cav, in my opinion, just doesn't have, in its current incarnation.


 
      
ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 12:08 PM 

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Joined: 12 Dec 2012

Robbi, BS is being changed to allow multiple uses today with a cooldown.

_________________
Currently featuring as:

Kuria - Lawful Misunderstood

Tyrone Stormont - Diplomat


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 12:16 PM 



Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Oh? That's nice! Like, really, really awesome! I still stand by my other points, for the most part, but... That'd actually possibly, potentially make it worth the investment, maybe.


 
      
Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 19:26 PM 

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

robbi320 wrote:
Assassin, imo, is the least awkward of the bunch, with 6/19ass/5.


I just wanted to say the concept of a horse-ridding assassin is hilarious to me. Like, sneaking a whole ass horse into a noble's bedchambers only to lean down from your saddle and shank them. Not to mention that in vanilla NWN you get a -50 penalty to literally every Rogue skill while ridding.

On-topic, I'm a fan of it remaining a mini-class(5 levels) for the same reasons as stated above. Given that you won't be able to take the horse some places, you're either looking at also taking a tumble class(and spending 30 more skill points), or kinda being a fish out of water whenever you're not on your horse.

Related, I was assuming this but just noticed it's never actually mentioned. Does the horse go bye-bye when you run out of temporary HP, or is it there until you dismount or die?

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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 20:03 PM 



Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2015

I'll be honest, when I wrote that, I didn't even consider the roleplay implications of Cav/Ass. lol. That's actually kind of funny.


 
      
lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 28 2020, 23:51 PM 



Developer

Joined: 27 Dec 2013

Given how horse riding works mechanically I doubt the player is forced to dismount after the temp hp is gone


 
      
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