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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 20:18 PM 

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So there is a bit of a trend in the RP community as a whole, across platforms, games, servers, forum vs. realtime, all of it.


Spells solve EVERYTHING.

This is annoying. Let me explain why.
"Broken bone? HEAL! Boom, fixed."
"Is that person lying? ZONE OF TRUTH! Boom, fixed."
"Tired/Drunk/Sick? GREATER RESTORATION! Boom, fixed."
"Mute? TONGUES 24/7! Boom, fixed."

These instant fixes aren't that great. They hinder RP in quite a few ways. Personally, with Pearl being mute, having Tongues in some situations is pretty great, usually when in a meeting where she HAS to talk.
However, recently people are just casting tongues on her willy-nilly when it isn't needed... Pearl is MUTE, she's meant to be harder to communicate with, it's her character flaw.

If a person has a broken bone... and you just cast 'Heal' and YAY it's better! It doesn't really work like that. You need to reset the bone, bind it, and make sure it's healed in the proper way, otherwise you got a janked up healed bone in your body. Leave room for those who are natural doctors and know how to do this, RP it out!

Part of the fun of someone being deceitful is figuring it out. This is why Bluff checks aren't really used outside silly stuff, it's a dead give-away they are lying, which is seen only OOC, and even though none of us are really meta-gamers, it still sits in our mind and we veer towards trying to expose that ONE person. (Kamina's plot here is a great example, it's a mystery, and that's what makes it frustrating but also fun.)

If your character had their booty handed to them in a fight, and get raised... they aren't going to be skipping merrily to the next town after being magically healed, they got beat up and killed. They're going to be tired, weak, and need to rest! It's only realistic. (As realisitic as coming back from the dead with a spell would be, at least...)

The point is, there are such thing as natural healers/remedies, special rituals that can take longer and thus generate fun RP, tending to someone who is sick or tired without a spell as a 'fix all'.
The ONLY reason I'm not including scrying in this is because so many of our characters are well educated on it and protect themselves through various means, which makes it harder.

Obviously doing this while grinding is not really leaving time for RP between spells, BUT to RP being tired and mending each other afterwards if there's time could be fun.

Sorry for the little rant. >_>
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

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Yin
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 20:52 PM 

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Well, it's quite natural thing to use magic in high-magic realm, and it actually makes no logical sense for one to suffer from disabilities that can easily be fixed with just few spells.
So, unless you choose different setting, or Amia suddenly become dead magic zone, it will be only natural to continue using all kind of spells that improves quality of life.
Just mine two coppers on the matter.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 21:27 PM 



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I can honestly see both sides, here. On the one hand, greater restoration basically fixes -everything-, and so does resurrection. We're playign a setting where everyone and their mother casts 9th level spells, and everyone has epic spells as well.

What's the point of a famine plot, if a wizard can just wish 25.000 gold worth of food into existance?
What's the point of a disease, when a wizard can just wish away whatever ails the person.

And I see it similarly with other effects. How could people like Jack Galenson, Peggy, or any other number of crippled PCs every come into existance, when a simple Greater Restoration would re-attach, or rather conjure up a completely new limb? How do any people die to diseases, poison, or even deadly wounds, when a restoration, or a resurrection completely heals them back too 100%? The answer is, they don't.

Arguing that we're a high-magic setting doesn't really answer any problems. If anything, it opens up new problems. In a high-magic setting, why are measly orcs a problem, when nuking their lair out of existance with a couple of hellballs would easily be possible?
Why don't NPCs make a fortune by producing lesser iouns, an item that's worth about 5-20k, and sell them for a million gold profit each?
Why don't PCs get the same idea?


 
      
ucfgoose
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 1:01 AM 

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Just have Pearl refuse to speak if the spell is cast. Problem solved.

I played a mute half orc. He had no tongue. Was unable to be cured because his tongue was cut out for speaking out against Gruumsh and was then cursed that it could not be healed. Players offered. Players tried without asking permission. It's up to other players to respect your wishes and, if they won't, you are under no obligation to play their way

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 1:04 AM 

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And this is why we love you Goose!


 
      
Righteous Anger
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 1:06 AM 

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ucfgoose wrote:
Just have Pearl refuse to speak if the spell is cast. Problem solved.

I played a mute half orc. He had no tongue. Was unable to be cured because his tongue was cut out for speaking out against Gruumsh and was then cursed that it could not be healed. Players offered. Players tried without asking permission. It's up to other players to respect your wishes and, if they won't, you are under no obligation to play their way


This. The nice thing about "spell fix everything" is that spells also fix spells fixing everything.

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LibrisMortis_666
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 1:15 AM 

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I agree.

I designed Robert to hate casting spells unless mandatory.

Example; why cast light when you can light a torch.

Robert gets bite, stabbed, mutilated in any way, he heals it I’m a mundane fashion. Fuck greater restoration. He can cast heal, has high heal skill, however it’s “my” preference. I see no fun in just being able to cast your way out of it. Why play a caster that doesn’t cast spells? It’s different.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 3:33 AM 

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Just say no, it's your character after all! Any spell that has no mechanical component in game has always come with the OOC tag that people must agree to it. Any pnp spell should need the agreement of those around, certain the agreement of the one it is being cast on! I agree that people use magic far too readily to try and solve mundane issues and for me personally I think most assume that spells always work... and I don't think that's the right mentality. A character is essentially willing something to happen, attempting to invoke or manifest something and whose to say if it works or not, you have spell failures after all. It's the roll of a dice literally to see if your successful and by how much.

Someone once cast that zone of truth spell on one of my characters whose presence on Amia was based on a lie, at the time a DM told me I didn't have to accept the use of the spell, not only that but in their mind the spell would merely tell of the intent to deceive rather than what they were outright lying about. At the end of the day though, no spell was a given and proven success.

I strongly think that both you OOCly and your character ICly need to be willing and accepting of the spell for it to truly work. You don't want Pearl to talk when someone invokes Tongues, say you don't want it to work and that she wasn't willing.

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 5:04 AM 

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Spells don't fix everything. I remember back from the day theory that if something was not fixed quickly enough, or if the effect had been severe enough, a condition could become your natural state.

So, if you natural state is being mute, from the spells point of view, there is nothing to fix and hence, the spell does not function. Someone looses a leg and it is not fixed in time, it becomes part of your natural state.. Hence, the spells do not find anything to fix. Or the healing does heal the wound, but the actual leg does not return. It was something to do with blueprint of the humanoid in question, after a while the blueprint would adapt to being natural state without a leg and thus spells did not identify anything wrong to fix.

Zone of Truth is not an automatic success. If you fail the save, you can still speak true without telling the truth, just speak around the topic. If anyone takes zone of truth 100 % automatic win, they would be fools to do so and I hope they get played with. :P

Curing being drunk with greater restoration, does not make sense to me, as it is not said in the description. It dispels all magical effects penalizing the creature, also eliminates fatigue and exhaustion, not stating curing being drunk. And getting drunk is hardly a magical feat, if the state was caused by a spell, then yes... Greater Restoration should remove it.

Tongues does not enable a mute character to speak. IF character does not have ability to speak, this spell will not grant the ability to speak. It enables touched creatures to understand and speak the language of any intelligent creature, assuming they have the ability to speak in the first place.

And in the end of the day, if someone is using PnP spells... They need permission from all parties and you can always say no, unless DM is overseeing the matter. I've called No a couple of times, like when paladins were constantly going around *Detect Evil*, then I went and developed counter measures so they got nothing. My point is, people assume awful lot from magic and spells in here, yet they are not automatic wins, they don't even always work! It is high magic setting, which means magic is readily available for most things, yet most things are not removed even with availability of magic. Some plagues are magic resistant so a simple spell is not an answer, summoning food and water is answer to famine in some extent, but I doubt the DM's would ever allow an entire famine being removed by single spell by a single mage.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 5:18 AM 



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The idea behind curimg drunken-ness is that modern medicine classifies alcohol as a poison. Thus, anything that removes/cures poisons should clear drunken-ness/drug effects. Which... it sort of makes sense. Of course, it makes Druid's natural immunity to poison weird, based on their propensity to... smoke things.

From what I understand, what Mrs. Jingles is saying, or... starting the discussion about... Or... I'm starting the discussion: PCs should be beholden to the same, or at least similar rules, as NPCs. Remove Poison should'nt be a quick and easy way out of negaitve effects of... stuff. (Greater) Restoration shouldn't be a quick and easy way out of every ailment that can befall a PC, despite source books claiming it is. Source books aren't made for the Amian setting. (If you genuinely think that, try requesting stuff from the Book of Vile Darkness, see how that goes, lol)

If it doesn't fix an NPC, why should it fix a PC?


 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 6:12 AM 

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I highly doubt that the writers of these people, during their publications considered alcohol as poison. Comparing modern medicine in realm settings is not going to change the fact that Greater Restoration has a set description:

Quote:
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 7
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it dispels all negative levels afflicting the healed creature. This effect also reverses level drains by a force or creature, restoring the creature to the highest level it had previously attained. The drained levels are restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is no more than one week per caster level.

Greater restoration also dispels all magical effects penalizing the creature’s abilities, cures all temporary ability damage, and restores all points permanently drained from all ability scores. It also eliminates fatigue and exhaustion, and removes all forms of insanity, confusion, and similar mental effects. Greater restoration does not restore levels or Constitution points lost due to death.


I don't really get where you are getting that PC's have had easy way out of everything. There has been several plague events where greater restoration or other typical go to spell failed to remove the effect. Some poisonings too. Not all NPC's get raised even if the spell should raise them. Not all healings work to restore a lost limp either for NPC's, even with the best intentions of the PC. My toon played 3 months inside a house because of ailment that was not able to be removed by typical means, this was DM plot.

DM's are rather hesitant to have any permanent amputations or negative effects fall on PC's. If you want that your leg does not grow back, you can make that decision and inform the DM. When my character cast her last Wish, I was asked to remove 3 lvls as "payment" so to say, but I told DM's in question that the wording of spell was this... IT should be more severe and it was agreed that it should be. At some point the players need to look into mirror, why do they allow spells to be answer to everything, if you want to lose your limp. You can, you even have RP reasons to it due to the blueprint theory that was explained few years ago. Maybe it was too late to get it healed, maybe it needs more work than "Automatic heal spell", you as a player can decide that too without it being out of lore.

But DM's are not out there to get you. They are there to help make world more immersive, having legless and armless toons for people to play with, tends not to be something people like to RP. What comes to resurrections, or raise dead spells, even if the spell functions mechanically, you can still RP *Did not work*, you can choose to do that for various reasons too. Maybe the spirit did not respond due to wrong cleric casting, or not right cleric casting, maybe the spirit did not return this time... etc.. You have rather large leeway here why it is not functioning. Again, DM's rarely force perma or permanent negative effects. Which is why I've already stated that "Perma warning" is like water really these days.

My point is that you as a player have the ability and right to call for your typical healing spells not functioning on your toon.

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Yin
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 6:32 AM 

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robbi320 wrote:
Source books aren't made for the Amian setting.


In that case we need Amian setting source books readily available for all to see first, no?

Cause otherswise, after launch of EE, if new players will appear, they just won't get it somehow.

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Galenson
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 7:45 AM 

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Players are lazy and will seek the fastest route to solving a problem. Spells are a convenient solution to solving a problem quickly without any thought.

D&D facilitates said spells, and players will use them.

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Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 8:14 AM 

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Personally, along the lines of what magiros claimed, I had a tiefling monk that was a mute. My general solution was the fact that her mutedness was from the outsider blood she had. She was simply born that way. Given that any healing property is generally centered around restoring what was lost or removing an illness you had gained, you cannot fix something that isn't broken. As such, restorative properties would not resolve the issue.

My original main character was the High priestess of Tiamat. Basically a ailed sun elf that was physically weak and prone to coughing up blood on occassion. The fix for that was simply it was an illness of divine nature that couldn't be cured simply because it'd conflict with whatever god's will placed it there. Without going into much avid description to the why's or whos simply because nobody knew.

Even ICly it is up to the player that a PnP spell is being put upon to exclaim whether the spell fails or succeeds. Both ICly as well as OOCly. The player in that regard sets whether something ICly succeeds or fails because every spell has the chance to. It's what DC checks mechanically are for.

For you to tell someone no OOC is to also say, by fact, that the spell fails ICly. You are not required to give a reason as to why short of the spell failed to be cast.

If they are to attempt to play it off otherwise you are to simply ignore it. As well as, I would suggest, informing a DM about it so it can be acted upon.

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:05 PM 

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I was using her muteness as an example.

I'm not talking about DM plots or anything, I'm just talking about some things that could be role played out instead of insta-fixed, not totally curing a character flaw.

Though all of you make good points! I like this discussion so far. :)

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:45 PM 

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Is Pearl mute though? She speaks other languages openly, including her own native tongue... so she isn't mute but merely lacks the ability to speak certain languages?

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 13:12 PM 

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walnutboy wrote:
Is Pearl mute though? She speaks other languages openly, including her own native tongue... so she isn't mute but merely lacks the ability to speak certain languages?



Yup! There's an explanation in her backstory, hence why tongues work on her.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 13:49 PM 

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I'll add my two... okay, half a copper to this!

Now, before I start, please no one be offended. It's merely the opinion of an old role player and not necessarily the views of others.

Here goes.

IMHO, while we should have flaws in our characters, D&D was not meant to roleplay things like... missing limbs, or inability to speak. It was meant that our characters, the PC's are the "cream of the crop", the "hero" class of people. In other words, someone with a disability likely wouldn't make it to the great heights of levels that we see on Amia. I highly doubt a person with a pegleg could get to level 30 in pnp. They couldn't run, they can't walk well, balance would be off, etc. They would simply die off. Mute? Not as dangerous, but still, hampered severely, especially as a caster, where there's verbal components to spells and they are in specific languages!

Now, that's vs PNP. On Amia, we are not just playing the "hero" role. We're playing literal roles in society. I've seen common citizen type pc's, all the way through the classic D&D tropes. I don't have any issue with people rping this way or that way, so long as it makes sense, and they aren't making things unnecessarily complicated and... they're consistent. Using Pearl as an example, she's pretty consistent with her roleplay of being mute, regardless of the backstory, she isn't mute, she simply cannot speak common. My chars don't know why, they just accept it and work with it. Seeing people casting tongues on her constantly, and her requesting it from the lady at the shrine makes me think, "Why not just get that fixed?". I'm sure Jingles battles with this on an IC and OOC level and I'm not questioning them at all. Merely bringing up the concept that during events, she is under tongues and can speak normally... thus proving my point above that to be a "hero" type, you really can't have that strong a disability and be viable in the situations you need to be.

That's a lot of blathering on, and I'll get to the point!

Essentially, I hate the "quick fix". I hate seeing a cleric, or wizard or sorcerer or even bard come up and mumble one incantation and... problem solved. I'd love to see more things that can't be fixed with magic, and to be honest.... it's happening! Lately, since my return, more and more things are not solvable by a single mage, and that's a good thing. It used to be that any wizard pc could fix any DM event with a spell in many cases, and it's nice to see that being altered. I don't play a lot of magic user characters and it's nice to be useful in events other than for stabbing things.

Why do people keep doing it or trying to "fix" things? It's essentially the core of D&D. You meet a few people in a bar, hear of some trouble, and you go take care of it. Problem along the way? Fix that too. One of your party is injured? Heal them. Can't speak? Cast a spell to fix that. It stems not only from a need to solve problems, but also a need to have your people at their best. When I was in the military, I worked with a team, a team that required us all to be in top form, at our best. If one wasn't... we did everything we could to remedy that before entering any situation. It's the same thing, on some level on Amia.

At the end of the day, I'm not a huge fan of how much PNP magic is used on Amia. When it was beginning to become popular many years ago, I stated it's opening a Pandora's Box, and cannot be closed. I still feel like this. It complicates things and makes magic users that much more powerful for things that aren't really necessary. I rarely tell people they can't do PNP things, but... I die inside a little each time too.

So... what's my point?

People want to help, and want to be the hero. Between those two things, it's no surprise they turn to the quickest, most efficient method to try and solve every problem and fix every error.

Also, I love the part about, "Can't fix what's not broken", since that's how the char has been for so long, there's nothing to fix as that is the natural state. Though, in all honesty, I'd think any Amian adventurer could be cured of nearly anything, since gold is not an issue and access to high level magic is so easy.

Again, just my half copper. Maybe a quarter copper now.


 
      
PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:04 PM 

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Let me ask this question what's the point of magic?

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:20 PM 

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To be useful!
Let me provide another example; this may clarify what I'm trying to get across better.
If you get shot with an arrow through your belly... is the heal spell going to remove that for you? Or would it make more sense to 'surgically' remove it first so the heal spell can take place?

I'm asking for more RP when USING spells, not... 'screw spells, let's just cast it and boom!'
For example, Tongues, in PnP, requires a clay idol. It's not just a verbal component and it's done. Yet almost nobody uses/asks for one, even though Pearl usually keeps them on her using the Earthshape spell and creating them from sand.

RP more WITH the spells, don't nix the spell entirely. That'd make no sense, as many have pointed out, ad I agree!

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:26 PM 

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Well... while I love that in theory, let's not go down the road of spell components. If one spell needs them, they all do, and... as much as I'm not a magicy kinda guy, I can only imagine how nuts it would be to require spell components for every spell cast!

I'm all for more rp with the spellcasting. Good idea.


 
      
Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:28 PM 

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That Guy wrote:
Well... while I love that in theory, let's not go down the road of spell components. If one spell needs them, they all do, and... as much as I'm not a magicy kinda guy, I can only imagine how nuts it would be to require spell components for every spell cast!

I'm all for more rp with the spellcasting. Good idea.




I'm inclined to agree with the spell components thing, BUT, I think if you're using a PnP spell, with it RPed out and more of a 'special' thing, you should do it correctly given it's RPed.

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Yin
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:33 PM 

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Well, maybe the problem is really cause everyone and their pets on Amia are bona fide demigods with hoards of money and power they do not know where to put, instead of being poor commoners that do not have enough money even to get some disease healing scrolls from local temple? After all Greater Restoration, Heal and that kind of magics, are pretty high level, and random adventuring mage, that can cast fireball of 3rd level is considered quite powerful being already.

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 14:38 PM 

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Yin wrote:
Well, maybe the problem is really cause everyone and their pets on Amia are bona fide demigods with hoards of money and power they do not know where to put, instead of being poor commoners that do not have enough money even to get some disease healing scrolls from local temple? After all Greater Restoration, Heal and that kind of magics, are pretty high level, and random adventuring mage, that can cast fireball of 3rd level is considered quite powerful being already.




Yes, noone is arguing that most people are rather OP compared to the majority, given we are players. This doesn't mean we can't have more RP to provide more realism.
I use the word realism here loosely. The goal is to roleplay here, that's what I'm suggesting. Yes, we are quite OP, but that's no reason to assume we can snap our fingers for everything without risk. Casting higher-tier spells is going to wear the caster out.

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Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 15:34 PM 

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Generally on the spell component thing: My general disposition to that end is that once it starts becoming less fun for most and a hassle for the majority, it's arguably best to let it be undone.

After all, it is a video game. At the end of the day, people are here to have fun and relax, detox from stress of real life and so on.

Even within' tabletop games some people simply blatantly void that ruling due to that exact reason: "Yeah~ I'm not even going to have ya'll worry about it. Just relax and enjoy the game."

That kind of thing. I think if a group of people agree to it, adhere to it and enjoy it that's one thing. But, I don't think it should be expected of people and/or required by people overall. Simply in a case by case basis to those involved at any given moment and what they want to do for enjoyment.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 15:42 PM 

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You can always Rp in Howness. Spells go wonky there. 8D

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 15:46 PM 

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Madam_Jingles wrote:
For example, Tongues, in PnP, requires a clay idol. It's not just a verbal component and it's done. Yet almost nobody uses/asks for one, even though Pearl usually keeps them on her using the Earthshape spell and creating them from sand.

I'm just gonna make a quick comment here: That is an arcane spell component. Remember that divine casters don't need one, and that's the case with a lot of spells.


That said, I have "punished" people for casting Heal on my characters before tending to things properly. I think once I had some arrows and a broken arm heal over without the arrows being removed or the arm being set and it required additional surgery to undo the damage wrought by rapid Heal casting.

And I will absolutely do that in my DM events if spells are tossed around without forethought. >.>

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 16:54 PM 

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I think it's unfair to force other people to roleplay how you like to roleplay. Some people may not enjoy talking about surgery in explicit detail but may want to play a divine healer. Some folks prefer shorter posts and some longer.

I would take it as a learning experience if I really wanted to make a flawed character and try making a different character and thinking more about what makes them 'flawed' and put more consideration in to how folks may interpret these flaws and ask my self if that's the kind of play I want before committing to a concept.

I'm not a fan of people using *Insert emote here*

I prefer to write things more like I'm reading a good book and I use the "Hey look I'm saying something now" because quotation marks are a thing that indicate some one was speaking.

Yet I'm not insisting every one else change how they prefer to write / play. I also don't think I should expect others to do just that. Perhaps asking a player if doing X would be okay with them would be a better way of gaining indication of what kind rp they are looking for and weather or not you wanna get involved.

One of the absolute most frustrating things I've had to deal with was trying to help a character 'get better' and absolutely nothing would 'work' no matter how much thought effort or roleplay I put in to it ( Literally roleplaying through it for several months) would find any form of advancement.

By the end of it I didn't really want to do that and stuff again and if my character didn't show they cared it was more so taken out IC when I as a player was just absolutely done with it. It was not fun for me to put in that much effort and find no real solution except for some thing arbitrarily designed by another player.

Something else that kinda goes both ways is if you run in to trouble. It's perfectly fine if some characters do an action and they are praised as heros if a dm said it was cool or okay and planned it ahead of time but if some one has a character do a similar action and does it more organically than planning a head for it some how every one has to hate on that character fore literally the exact same action.

This is something I find absolutely unbelievable unfair and it sours me to game and the community as a whole. Don't be a jerk to some one who wants to play something out a certain way. If you're not sure just ask.

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 16:58 PM 

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PassionateShadow wrote:
This is something I find absolutely unbelievable unfair and it sours me to game and the community as a whole. Don't be a jerk to some one who wants to play something out a certain way. If you're not sure just ask.



No no, you misunderstand. I am not saying things have to be this way, or they SHOULD be this way, or trying to force my ideas on anyone else.
If I was, I'd bring it to the 'Concerns about Fairness' topic or to a DM directly.
I'm sharing my opinion and inviting others to share theirs as a fun discussion, not to call anyone out or stop anyone from RPing how they like, just wanted to talk about it.

I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to forcefully bend others to my own perspective, it was not my intention in the slightest!

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 17:34 PM 

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Ya'll don't want healing? Fine. More healing for me.

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May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


 
      
Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 17:36 PM 

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PuresoulX2 wrote:
Ya'll don't want healing? Fine. More healing for me.



WAIT NO BBY COME BACK

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:01 PM 

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No need to punch clerics and healers in the face over it though. Some of us actually do play caring healers who are concerned about people when they are hurt. Such as Kestrel wanting to cast tongues on Pearl to understand her because she is a field medic. she was legitimately concerned and wondered if Pearl had internal injuries or required surgery.

We don't expect a spell solve everything because we already know more than half the time it doesn't work. Devlin couldn't stop the famine in Ostland by merely waving his fingers, he knew his greater restore would do nothing for dragon bane wounds or other kinds of afflictions that are outside the norm. Ect, ect.

Honestly, what do you take us for?

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Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple, Bronze Dragon Slayer
May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


Last edited by PuresoulX2 on Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:13 PM 

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PuresoulX2 wrote:
No need to punch clerics and healers in the face over it though. Some of us actually do play caring healers who are concerned about people when they are hurt. Such as Kestrel wanting to cast tongues on Pearl to understand her because she is a field medic. she was legitimately concerned and wondered if Pearl had internal injuries or required surgery.

We don't expect a spell solve everything because we already know more the half the time it doesn't work. Devlin couldn't stop the famine in Ostland by merely waving his fingers, he knew his greater restore would do nothing for dragon bane wounds or other kinds of afflictions that are outside the norm. Ect, ect.

Honestly, what do you take us for?



Again, I'm saying this as a discussion. Not to tell healers to stop healing, that'd be outright ridiculous, Pearl herself is a HEALER.

I'm suggesting for more RP when it comes to complicated casting, not every little thing...

And this is a DISCUSSION. Not a 'It has to be this way rawr', because I'm not the only one with an opinion in, hence why I'm seeing what everyone thinks.
I'm not trying to attack your characters, guys, honestly. :/

Also, Kestrel casting tongues on Pearl, she didn't ask me first, which is why Pearl ran away, but this post wasn't directed at her or anyone in particular, just a general statement. Just clarifying that one in particular since you brought it up.

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:43 PM 

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Madam_Jingles wrote:
PuresoulX2 wrote:
No need to punch clerics and healers in the face over it though. Some of us actually do play caring healers who are concerned about people when they are hurt. Such as Kestrel wanting to cast tongues on Pearl to understand her because she is a field medic. she was legitimately concerned and wondered if Pearl had internal injuries or required surgery.

We don't expect a spell solve everything because we already know more the half the time it doesn't work. Devlin couldn't stop the famine in Ostland by merely waving his fingers, he knew his greater restore would do nothing for dragon bane wounds or other kinds of afflictions that are outside the norm. Ect, ect.

Honestly, what do you take us for?



Again, I'm saying this as a discussion. Not to tell healers to stop healing, that'd be outright ridiculous, Pearl herself is a HEALER.

I'm suggesting for more RP when it comes to complicated casting, not every little thing...

And this is a DISCUSSION. Not a 'It has to be this way rawr', because I'm not the only one with an opinion in, hence why I'm seeing what everyone thinks.
I'm not trying to attack your characters, guys, honestly. :/

Also, Kestrel casting tongues on Pearl, she didn't ask me first, which is why Pearl ran away, but this post wasn't directed at her or anyone in particular, just a general statement. Just clarifying that one in particular since you brought it up.


Don't worry. I know this isn't an attack :P Given divine casters don't need components for a lot spells, there isn't much more to RP outside of certain complicated pnp spells like hallowing. Having to use components outside of pnp spells would only become an unwelcome and painful addition. If you are looking for less magic, Ruathym is all about that. However, I disagree with the title of this thread. Spells don't fix everything.

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Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple, Bronze Dragon Slayer
May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


Last edited by PuresoulX2 on Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:46 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:45 PM 

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Yeah... my intention wasn't to discuss healers specifically, but all casters.

And I'm not talking about less magic, either, that'd be bonkers.


"Excuse me, I've been poisoned... could you cast a restoration on me?"
Level 30 Cleric: "Nooo, sorry. We shouldn't use magic that much."


No. xD

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 18:57 PM 

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Madam_Jingles wrote:
Yeah... my intention wasn't to discuss healers specifically, but all casters.

And I'm not talking about less magic, either, that'd be bonkers.


"Excuse me, I've been poisoned... could you cast a restoration on me?"
Level 30 Cleric: "Nooo, sorry. We shouldn't use magic that much."


No. xD


I play a wizard and a sorcerer. I'm always having some form of complex arcane casting RP going on on my wizard. She helped with Cordors barrier the other day and that required some components and ritual casting. Is this barrier going to work as intended? We don't know one hundred percent. Kyra already knows spells may not work as intended. Her attempt at fire fighting proves that.

In my experience, there is plenty of complex arcane casting going on. Just my two cents.

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Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple, Bronze Dragon Slayer
May'rinna D'vilrath - Underdarker and Noble House Sorceress


 
      
Yin
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 20:04 PM 

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Just accept the fact - in magical setting magic solves everything. Period. It just made this way. And that's why it's called "magic" in first place.
Cause if magic can not solve something, either your magic is not strong enough, or you are using wroing type of magic.
It was always like that, and always be this way.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 23:24 PM 

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All I really care to say on the topic is this:

In the hands of an experienced DM, player, or storyteller, magic usually solves symptoms, not the disease so to speak.

So you ended the year long drought and brought rain back to the farmland. But what caused the drought in the first place and ensures it won't come back?
You managed to magic up a Hero's Feast and feed the village. For a day or so. Even if that food keeps, what led to the famine in the first place, and be it sentient, will it not now come after you?
You healed a PC's/NPC's missing limb or handicap. It's a good thing that PTSD and lasting mental trauma are cured with the body, yeah?
Who is to assume that, whatever you have done with magic, will not and can not be undone by it?

If anyone, DM or player, ever finds that magic simply "solves" their problems, the problem likely wasn't as difficult as it was made out to be in the first place. Additionally there is a reason most magic systems, fictional and/or game related, have the idea of cost associated with them. Sacrifice. Be it time to cast, ingredients, focii, alignment of the stars, life force, or lasting effects to caster or recipient. Problems are there to be solved, or at least attempted to be solved. And in an Occam's Razor sort of deal, you can't fault fictional people for going for the readily available solutions. There's as much use in being upset over magic being available to heal damage in the game world as being upset that sick people in our own world are offered medicine. The world(particularly the highly lucrative and connected world that adventurers live in) adapts. If you want to challenge them, or be challenged as a player, you too must adapt your outlook. As for the rest of the people in our world, yes even this mid-high magic world, who must either scrounge together the gold or wait on a benevolent traveling cleric, it is not so simple. It is easy to operate in the bubble of our player characters and think it would be so for the entire setting.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 25 2019, 6:24 AM 

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Quote:
Spells don't fix everything. I remember back from the day theory that if something was not fixed quickly enough, or if the effect had been severe enough, a condition could become your natural state.


Pattern Theory

:!:

The idea of the body and self accepting the natural state the individual now finds themselves, in, and magic simply restores the person back to what they believe themselves to be, or have metaphysically internalized themselves to be.

A soldier who has long since made peace with his missing arm and the phantom pain that accompanies it finds that regeneration no longer heals the arm!

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 25 2019, 17:07 PM 

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Yep. Such a thing also factors into the idea of physical healing not completely negating mental injury or harm.

If your character had their trachea ripped out by a mountain lion and spent 3 days crawling back to town on their belly... No one's going to fault you for not having them simply "get over it" and start talking again, because a man in pretty robes fixed the physical trauma 10 years later. If the problem isn't just "I got a booboo dungeoneering last week" and is instead something like "I can't look at a cat now without flinching and tasting blood," no, spells aren't going to fix "everything," mind and/or body.

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Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.


 
      
Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 25 2019, 17:42 PM 



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Tormak is right when he references "Pattern Theory". I should interject something for the sake of the current DM & Design Team, however.

I brought the notion of Pattern Theory into Amia years ago as a means of providing myself and other players a reason to temper the autosuccess of magical healing, a reason that I borrowed mostly from the Ars Magica/M:tA setting and that I felt was compelling without being annoying. I could go into a detailed explanation, but that isn't relevant: my point is that the aforementioned Pattern Theory is not FR canon and the DM & Design Team have expressed that they prefer the setting to be as lore-consistent as possible.

FR canon is high magic meaning, yeah, the potential is there for people to live wonderful, magically augmented and extended lives. But the equal potential exists for them to die in horrible magical ways (like excesses of positive energy causing cancer-like effects).


 
      
Dunecat
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 26 2019, 6:01 AM 

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PassionateShadow wrote:
I think it's unfair to force other people to roleplay how you like to roleplay.

This is correct.

Also borrowings from M:tAs and Ars Magica are welcome.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 26 2019, 6:01 AM 

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Pattern theory can and has been used by previous dms and administration in canon events in the past though, setting a precedent for its official inclusion into Amian lore, if the desire is there!

(I'm very happy saying the words "Pattern Theory" summoned Yoss.)

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Madam_Jingles
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 26 2019, 10:18 AM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
(I'm very happy saying the words "Pattern Theory" summoned Yoss.)



That's some true magic!

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 26 2019, 17:32 PM 

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I will toss in 2 öre här (we don't even have Öre in Sweden anymore but hey!)

I think a big problem is, magic do solve almost every single problem there is on Faerun. But, the biggest but here is that there is not a epic lvl cleric around to do one turn undead and see the whole army of undead crumble or a mage able to ward every single house or similar. A mage do not have time or want to kill off all bugs or repair all the furniture in a village. The cleric might try to mend legs and bones. But the church need gold often and not all are "good guy samarites" so many churches probably only do the basic healing in natural form more than toss restorations and heal spells on a child who broke his leg falling from a tree. No peasant can afford it.

It is a bit of the Superman syndrome. It is so useful and good, the writers need to pull out the obscure thigns like that "Neverwinter Nights" campaign disease that could not be healed. Or crazy Fey'ri in the Last Mythal who if I do not remember, had these odd wards blocking off scrying along with old, I forgot the name, but crystals with information on them that only someone of a certain bloodline could touch but most of those...where Fey'ri...and the crystal fried demon bloods. There is gateways that blocks things at times for convenience of "power creeping" magic for a while with supernatural disease and mysteries.

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Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 27 2019, 18:47 PM 

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Pattern Theory! Pattern Theory! Pattern Theory!


 
      
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