AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - NWN EE Finished Classes

Below is a list of classes that are complete in the hak. They still require testing, tweaking, etc but I wanted to present these forward for discussion. I will be updating this list as it is expanded.

My first test of implementation was the Escape Artist, since it was designed to be simple to make and use no custom feats.

Escape Artist(PRESTIGE CLASS)An Escape Artist is a master of getting out of a situation completely unharmed. Their own personal safety is the only thing on their mind. (Max level 10)

- Hit Die: 1d6
- Proficiencies: Rogue Prof.
- Skill Points: 8+ Int Modifier.
- AB Progression: 3/4
- Rogue Saving Throws
- Skills: Heal, Hide, Listen, Lore, Move Silently, Persuade, Pick Pocket, Search, Spot, Tumble, Lock Picking]

REQUIREMENTS:

Feat: Dodge
Skills: 10 Tumble, 5 Open Lock

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 10):
Level 1: Uncanny dodge I
Level 2: Conceal 1
Level 3: Uncanny dodge II, Evasion
Level 4: Conceal 2
Level 5: Uncanny dodge III, Vanish I Feat
Level 6: Conceal 3
Level 7: Uncanny dodge IV, Defensive Roll
Level 8: Conceal 4
Level 9: Uncanny dodge V, Slippery Mind
Level 10: Uncanny dodge VI, Improved Evasion, Conceal 5, Vanish II Feat

Vanish Feat: At level 5 upon death the Escape Artist revives instantly with 1/2 hp and invisibility. Upon level 10 the Escape Artist will revive instantly with full hp and invisibility

I am taking ideas from the PRCs you all have posted in the other thread. The first one to catch my eye was the Warsling Sniper suggestion which I have reworked into something a bit more viable, and universal for all races.

Warslinger(PRESTIGE CLASS) The Warslinger is an expert in the use of the weapon commonly associated with the halfling race. (Max level 5)

- Hit Die: 1d10
- Proficiencies: A Warslinger gain weapon or armor proficiencies in Shield, Light and Medium Armor.
- Skill Points: 2+ Int Modifier.
- BAB Progression: 1
- Fighter Saving Throws
- Skills: Discipline, Craft Weapon, Move Silently, Listen, Hide, Spot, Search, Tumble

REQUIREMENTS:

BAB +5
Feat: Weapon Focus: Sling, Point-Blank Shot

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):
Level 1: Bonus Feat, Precision Ammo Crafting I
Level 2: Rapid Fire, Called Shot
Level 3: Bonus Feat, Precision Ammo Crafting II
Level 4: Improved Crit Sling
Level 5: Bonus Feat, Precision Ammo Crafting III

Bonus Feats
Pre-epic: Great Fort, Iron Will, Lightning Reflex, Prof. Heavy Armor, Dodge, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Skill Focus: (Discipline, Craft Weapon, Move Silently, Listen, Hide, Spot, Search, Tumble)
Epic: Epic Weapon Focus: Sling, Epic Weapon Specialisation: Sling, Overwhelming Critical: Sling, Devastating Critical: Sling, Epic Prowess, Epic Skill Focus: (Discipline, Craft Weapon, Move Silently, Listen, Hide, Spot, Search, Tumble)

Warslinger Precision Bullets
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Warslinger level 1
Specifics: At level 1 Warslingers are capable of bringing forth a wide variety of bullet types to take down their foes. More options become available at level 3 and level 5.

Bullet Crafting
Level 1 Warslinger: 2d6 Bludgeoning/Slashing/Pericing Bullets
Level 3 Warslinger: 2d6 Acid/Cold/Fire/Electrical Bullets
Level 5 Warslinger: 1d6 Magical and +3 Vamp Regen Bullets, On Hit Silence and On Hit Dispell Bullets, and lastly 2d6 Magical Bullets

A fusion between the Eldritch Knight and Spellsword.

Eldritch Knight(PRESTIGE CLASS)Studying the martial and arcane arts to equal degree, the eldritch knight is a versatile combatant who can cast fireball on their foes or charge them with sword drawn. The eldritch knight takes pride in their ability to use the right technique for the job: spells against physically tough foes and force of arms against spellcasting enemies.

Eldritch knights split their time between physical training to become better soldiers and arcane study to learn more powerful spells. They tend to be driven individuals, because simultaneously perfecting their spellcasting and combat prowess requires immense time and effort.(Max level 10)

REQUIREMENTS:
BAB 5+
Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Martial) OR (Elven)
Arcane Level 5 (5 Wiz/Sorc)

- Hit die: d6
- Proficiencies: Martial and Shield
- Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
- Class skills: Concentration, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Lore, Parry, Spellcraft, and Discipline
- Base attack bonus progression: 1
- Saving throws: Fighter
- Arcane spell progression: 1 per level

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 10):
Level 1: Bonus feat (Fighter/Wiz list)
Level 5: Still Spell
Level 10: Auto Still 1

Bonus Feats
All Fighter and Wizard Bonus feat except Weapon Spec.

So... I got distracted and worked on the Calvary class. A lot of the stability issues with horses are gone with NWN EE so this is as good of a time as any to introduce some horse fun. The speed boost is quite powerful which is why I am inclined to outright ban archers shooting from their back. Monk/AAs can already be an issue with their ability to kit and shoot.

Cavalry(PRESTIGE CLASS)A warrior who has mastered the art of mounted combat on horseback. They forge a trusted bond with their animal and learn to fight as one. Many Cavalry are vastly superior combatants on horse than they are on foot as a result.(Max level 5)

REQUIREMENTS:
BAB 10+
Ride Skill 10

- Hit die: d10
- Proficiencies: Armor (light, heavy, medium), Shields, Weapons (martial, simple)
- Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
- Class skills: Concentration, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Discipline, Heal, Lore, Parry, Ride, Spot, Taunt, Intimidate
- Base attack bonus progression: 1
- Saving throws: Fighter

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):
Level 1: Cavalry Mount Feat (3x Use a Rest), Speed Boost 10%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 40 hp
Level 2: Temp HP Granted on Mount: 80 hp, Bonus Feat
Level 3: Speed Boost 20%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 120 hp, 1 AB/Damage while Monunted
Level 4: Temp HP Granted on Mount: 160 hp, Bonus Feat
Level 5: Speed Boost 30%, Temp HP Granted on Mount: 200 hp, 1 AB/Damage while Monunted

Ranged Weapons cannot be used when mounted except the short bow and only after you have both the mounted combat and mounted archery feats. (Note: Both of these feats add nothing stat wise while mounted).

Bonus Feats
All Fighter Bonus feats except Weapon Spec.

Cavalry Mount Feat
At level one upon gaining the feat you are given a widget that lets you alternate between different horse styles. There are currently 20 different horses you can switch between. There are four main colors (Walnut, Gunpowder, Spotted, and Black) and each of these four has 5 main variants. These variants are standard horse w/ saddle, horse w/ leather barding, horse w/ scale mail barding, horse w/ purple bardings, and horse w/ red bardings.

Your AC while mounted will be calculated based off of your riding skill. You will lose tumble AC while mounted and instead gain 1 AC per 5 levels of Ride.

Two Weapon Fighter(PRESTIGE CLASS) A warrior who has mastered the art of two swords. They excel at striking from multiple angles at one time, or striking and defending in one fluid motion. They are a rare breed of warrior but truly a terror on the battlefield for those few who learn to master the style.

REQUIREMENTS:
BAB 7+
Power Attack
Lightning Reflexes

- Hit die: d10
- Proficiencies: None
- Skill points: 2 + Int modifier
- Class skills: Concentration, Discipline, Heal, Listen, Lore, Parry, Search, Spot, Taunt, Intimidate
- Base attack bonus progression: 1
- Saving throws: Fighter

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):
Level 1: Ambidexterous, Two Weapon Defense (+1 Shield AC)
Level 2: Two Weapon Fighter
Level 3: Two Weapon Defense (+2 Shield AC)
Level 4: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 5: Epic Prowess, Two Weapon Defense (+4 Shield AC, Medium Weapons now are treated as small for medium characters, and small weapons as tiny for small characters for dual wielding AB penalty purposes, Dual Bladed Weapons count as having no AB penalty when used)

Two Weapon Defense Feat
When dual wielding or using a double ended weapon you will receive an AC shield bonus of 1 at level 1, 2 at level 3, and 4 at level 5.

Defender(PRESTIGE CLASS) A true Defender holds his/her ground against impossible odds. Forged through experience these individuals are masters at defense. They are almost unmovable barriers that the heart of most cities rely upon for survival.

- Hit Die: 1d12
- Proficiencies: All Armor, Shield, Weapon Prof. Simple and Martial
- Skill Points: 2+ Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:

No DwD Levels (DwD cannot be leved if you have Defender levels as well)
Dodge
Toughness
BAB 8+
Skill Focus Disc

ABILITIES/FEATS:

*Identicial to DwD*

Bow Master(PRESTIGE CLASS) The title of Bow Master is obtained a number of different ways. Some take a similar path as an Arcane Archer and use magic to enchance their art while others spend years of hard training to operate their bow like an extention of themselves. (Bowmaster can be RP'ed as using magic similar to AA or by non magical means)

- Hit Die: 1d8
- Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4+ Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:

Point Blank Shot,
Weapon Focus (Short bow or Long Bow)
BAB 7+
Rapid Shot
Martial Prof.
Arcane Spell Level 1+

ABILITIES/FEATS:

*Identical to Arcane Archer*

Field Medicus(PRESTIGE CLASS) Most individuals in the realm are not capable of summoning forth their gods power to heal others they must do it the old fashion way. Field Medicus are experienced healers who spend most of their time in the battlefield tending wounds and preventing death. They are usually the unsung heroes of war bands or even bandit groups.

REQUIREMENTS:

8+ Heal
5+ Discipline
Skill Focus: Heal

1d10 hp
+3 skill per level
3/4 BAB,
Cleric Saves

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):

Level 1. Combat Bandage I
Level 2. Bonus Feat, Strong Soul
Level 3. Combat Bandage II
Level 4. Bonus Feat, Iron Will, Great Fortitude
Level 5. Combat Bandage III, Manufacture Heal Kits, Perfect Health

Combat Bandage: A touch ability, unlimited use per day with a 20 second cooldown, it offers the following benefits when used: Combat Bandage I - Adds Regeneration 2 rounds per level, for Wis Mod in amount healed for a maximum of 5 points.

Combat Bandage II - Alongside the above, the target gains Universal Saves for turns/Combat Medic levels. Universal Saves = +1 for 1 Combat Medic, +2 for 3 Combat Medic and +3 for 5 Combat Medic.

Combat Bandage III - In addition to both of the above, the target gains 10 temporary health points per Combat Medic level for turns/Combat Medic level.

Manufacture Heal Kits - At level 5, the Combat Medic is adept and having to create various forms of healing kit, they can create Heal Kits +25 stack of 10 which are untradeable and bound to the player for a 5k gold price.

Bonus Feats: armor, shield and prof feats. Weapon Focus feats, Blind fight, Epic weapon focus, armor skin, epic prowess, assorted fighter feats, and epic skill focus heal.

Path of Enlightenment(PRESTIGE CLASS) The Path of Enlightenment is one few reach but the ones who do, unlock untold potiental within themselves. Their abilities and mastery of their own bodies becomes supernatural and their understanding of their ki unparallelled.

- Hit Die: 1d8
- Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4+ Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:

Epic Monk Feat (21+ Monk)

ABILITIES/FEATS (Max level 5):

Level 1: Enlightenment, Select a Path

Enlightenment can only be used with fists and it is a turn off/on ability. Enlightenment changes function based on the selected path you choose at level 1.

Path of Mists: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Mists learns how to use their inner ki to establish a semi-permanent state of unrestricted movement. They are harder to hit, and impossible to restrict or trap.

Level 1: Conceal 10, Plus 2 AB to fists, 1 Cold Damage Bonus
Level 2: Conceal 20, 2 Cold Damage Bonus
Level 3: Conceal 30, 3 Cold Damage Bonus
Level 4: Conceal 40, 4 Cold Damage Bonus
Level 5: Conceal 50, Freedom, 5 Cold Damage Bonus

Path of Elements: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Elements learns how to use their inner ki to establish a semi-permanent connection with the elements. Fire, electricity and cold are all sources of power that the monk can freely generate and use.

Can select and switch between fire, cold and electricity elements.

Level 1: 5 elemental resistance, 4 elemental damage, plus 2 AB to fists
Level 2: 7 elemental resistance, 6 elemental damage
Level 3: 10 elemental resistance, 8 elemental damage
Level 4: 12 elemental resistance, 10 elemental damage
Level 5: 15 elemental resistance, 12 elemental damage

Path of Life: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Life learns how to use their inner ki to repel death itself. They develop super human regeneration and iron will to resist death magic.

Level 1: 2 regeneration, plus 2 AB to fists
Level 2: 4 regeneration
Level 3: 6 regeneration
Level 4: 8 regeneration
Level 5: 10 regeneration, Death Immunity

Path of Ironskin: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Ironskin learns how to use their inner ki to harden their exterior from harm. Their flesh becomes like stone and many physical attacks bounce right off. They become dense and heavy while pursuing this path.

Movement speed reduced when active.

Level 1: 5 Physical Damage Resistance, Plus 2 AB to fists
Level 2: 10 Physical Damage Resistance
Level 3: 15 Physical Damage Resistance
Level 4: 20 Physical Damage Resistance
Level 5: 25 Physical Damage Resistance

Path of Anti Magic: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Anti Magic learns how to use their ki to amplify their already significant resistance to magic.

Path of Enlightenment doesn't benefit from normal monk SR progression. Path of Anti Magic is built to emulate the normal SR level progression with added boosts.

Level 1: 3 SR, Plus 2 AB to fists
Level 2: 4 SR
Level 3: 7 SR
Level 4: 8 SR
Level 5: 11 SR, Magical Resistance 5/-

Path of Pain: A monk that chooses the enlightened Path of Pain learns to unlock the hidden potiental of ones body. They push themselves beyond any known limit to the point that while they enter this state they become super human but at the cost of their own health. Their body destroys itself the longer one resides in this state, muscles and ligaments tearing themselves apart as the user fights.

While Enlightment is active you are dealt 20 divine damage on the first round and 5 more damage per consecutive round after. Round one you deals 20 damage, round 2 deals 25, round 3 deals 30, etc.

Level 1: 2 AC, 2 AB, 4 Bludge Damage, 4/- Physical Resistance
Level 2: 2 AC, 2 AB, 6 Bludge Damage, 6/- Physical Resistance
Level 3: 3 AC, 3 AB, 6 Bludge Damage, 6/- Physical Resistance
Level 4: 3 AC, 3 AB, 8 Bludge Damage, 8/- Physical Resistance
Level 5: 4 AC, 4 AB, 10 Bludge Damage, 10/- Physical Resistance, and Haste

Arbalest(PRESTIGE CLASS) The Arbalest is a master of the crossbow. Skilled at reloading, and taking aim at vulnerable spots to let their mighty weapon puncture through with little to no trouble. Crossbowman are slower compared to their bow counterparts but pack a significantly larger punch.

- Hit Die: 1d8
- Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 4+ Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Heal, Hide, Listen, More, Move Silently, Spot, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Craft Armor, and Ride

REQUIREMENTS:

Weapon Focus (Heavy or Light Crossbow)
BAB 5+

ABILITIES/FEATS:

Level 1: Piercing Shot Feat (A special shot that ignores armor)
Level 3: Craft Bolt Feat (Every three levels a new bolt type can be crafted)
Level 5: +1 AB/DAMAGE
Level 10: +1 AB/DAMAGE
Level 13: Bonus Epic Feat
Level 15: +1 AB/DAMAGE
Level 16: Bonus Epic Feat
Level 19: Bonus Epic Feat
Level 20: +1 AB/DAMAGE

Craft Bolt:
A master crossbow user learns how to craft their arrows in the field out of the materials on hand. Every 3 levels, starting at level 3, you gain the ability to craft a new type of bolt.

Level 3: 1d8 Fire Bolts
Level 6: 1d8 Electric Bolts
Level 9: 1d8 Magic Bolts
Level 12: 1d10 Fire and 1d10 Cold Bolts
Level 15: 2d10 acid, On Hit DC 20 Blindness Bolts
Level 18: 1d10 Blug, and extra ranged damage type Blud Bolts

Piercing Shot:
A master crossbow user knows how to aim their weapon to bypass most armor and hit the vulnerable weak portions.

This is now a togglable ability. While it is on you become completely unable to move while you take aim. It takes an action to activate/deactivate. You gain 1 AB every two levels of Arbalest, and 1 Damage every one level of Arbalest. The damage, at this time is divine to represent armor pen properties. This stacks with the natural damage/ab progression you earn leveling up.

Bonus Epic Feat: Epic Weapon Focus(Light or Heavy Crossbow), Great Dex 1-10, Epic Prowess, Blinding Speed, Toughness 1-10, Epic Reflexes, and Overwhelming/Devasting Crit (Light or Heavy Crossbow)

Duelist(PRESTIGE CLASS) A Duelist is an expert of fighting with a single, one handed weapon. These masters range from fast, quick, thrusting rapier duelists to the legendary katana users who can take down their foe in one quick slash. Their fighting style is a one that allows flexibility through one hand being free for balance, a quick punch, or a sudden shift of their stance where they can use their weapon in both hands for added power.

- Hit Die: 1d10
- Proficiencies: Martial Prof.
- Skill Points: 2+ Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:

Non-Monk
18 Ranks in Parry
8+ BAB

SKILLS: Discipline, Heal, Lore, Parry, Spot, Tumble, Intimidate, Ride

ABILITIES/FEATS:

Below bonuses only apply when using a single, one handed weapon.

Level 1: Shield AC Bonus +1, +1 Piercing Damage
Level 2: Shield AC Bonus +3, +2 Piercing Damage
Level 3: Shield AC Bonus +4, Improved Parry, +3 Piercing Damage
Level 4: Shield AC Bonus +5, +4 Piercing Damage
Level 5: Shield AC Bonus +7, +1 AB One Handed, +5 Piercing Damage

A little something-something for two-handers.

Server Wide Two-Hander ChangeThis will be a change that will affect all two-handers but the quarterstaff.
+2 AB and bonus damage will rise from 1.5x to 2x your strength mod.

I do not think you should make a Racial PRC for all races. It takes away from the lore in the shape of culture, society and lifestyle of races.

We decided against racially-locked PRCs, as it's too limiting for other races who don't get fancy racial goodies. And rather than go through and make a special racially-locked PRC for every race... Well...

We want to make stuff for everyone.

Jes wrote:

We decided against racially-locked PRCs, as it's too limiting for other races who don't get fancy racial goodies. And rather than go through and make a special racially-locked PRC for every race... Well...

We want to make stuff for everyone.

There is plenty of PRC that is not locked to race. This will take away so much from Arcane Archer, Dwarven Defender, Warslinger and so on. Now we will lose that touch of the "other" races having unique flavour in mechanics and class picks and have "smug" Humans able to do the same

Mixed feelings. Love the Warslinger. Hoped it would remain Halfling. I tried to emulate a Warslinger with existing classes but what you have presented is better. Are we opening up Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender?

is escape artist a joke?

Akhlys wrote:

is escape artist a joke?

No. Provide some feed back and we can make changes. It was more of a tester class I built to test the system so it needs more thought.

maglorine wrote:

Mixed feelings. Love the Warslinger. Hoped it would remain Halfling. I tried to emulate a Warslinger with existing classes but what you have presented is better. Are we opening up Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender?

Not sure yet. We are having discussion about that. It would solve a lot of issues if we did though. Turning AA into a generalist archer type class would allow people to diversify.

It's a shadow dancer without hips, shadow daze, or a summon, but also has worse level breaks for feats. Could pack all of what you gave it into four levels and I still wouldn't take it.

There's alot of feat overlap with Shadowdancer. Except you don't get Hips, or a Summon, or Shadow Daze, or Evade.

A few extra Skill points.
A few less Hitpoints.
A lower BAB.
Same saves.

Not much there. It needs something else.

If it's missing all that, maybe it gets some AC by level or monk saves, or some mixture of those.

Its ab progression is set up for 2/3 so that is an error.

It definitely needs more.

Monk saves isnt a bad idea.

Giving access to impro invis through a feat and a few more AC was what came to mind. I just don't want to go too far.

Maverick00053 wrote:

maglorine wrote:

Mixed feelings. Love the Warslinger. Hoped it would remain Halfling. I tried to emulate a Warslinger with existing classes but what you have presented is better. Are we opening up Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender?

Not sure yet. We are having discussion about that. It would solve a lot of issues if we did though. Turning AA into a generalist archer type class would allow people to diversify.

Yar, we're still discussing existing racially-locked PRCs!

Also would be helpful to know the class skills.

2 AB per 3 levels or do you mean 3 AB per 4 levels like SD/bard/rogue etc?

Skills added.

It has 3/4 AB Progression.

Jes wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

maglorine wrote:

Mixed feelings. Love the Warslinger. Hoped it would remain Halfling. I tried to emulate a Warslinger with existing classes but what you have presented is better. Are we opening up Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender?

Not sure yet. We are having discussion about that. It would solve a lot of issues if we did though. Turning AA into a generalist archer type class would allow people to diversify.

Yar, we're still discussing existing racially-locked PRCs!

Pretty please, do not take away more from the Elf and Dwarf RP :cry:

Yeah I don't think the Escape Artist would be an all-too-useful addition.

It'd just be used as a stepping stone for Epic Dodge, and it does so far worse than SD

One could argue that it doesn't need Mobility but...

Let us be real here, if you already get dodge, i'd get Mobility as well for HiPS in 100% of the cases.

EDIT: Seems I misunderstood the point. I guess one could give the Escape Artist some kind of Gimmick to make it worthwhile. Permanent Freedom of Movement on Level 10 comes to mind.

I also realised that it /MIGHT/ be even worth for some builds to dip 1 level into it for Uncanny Dodge / Use it as a Tumbledump.

Budly wrote:

Pretty please, do not take away more from the Elf and Dwarf RP :cry:

I think this would be more opening things up for others to join in to that roleplay than it would be to detract from them.

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Yeah I don't think the Escape Artist would be an all-too-useful addition.

It'd just be used as a stepping stone for Epic Dodge, and it does so far worse than SD

One could argue that it doesn't need Mobility but...

Let us be real here, if you already get dodge, i'd get Mobility as well for HiPS in 100% of the cases.

See it as an RP thing, not everything need to be an SD.

Kiasyd wrote:

Budly wrote:

Pretty please, do not take away more from the Elf and Dwarf RP :cry:

I think this would be more opening things up for others to join in to that roleplay than it would be to detract from them.

To me not everything need to be inclusive. If we make AA and DwD "open to all", it is taking away from the prestige of the races and taking away a unique PrC. I still think others can for example be included in the RP of Sylv as an AA or Tetrik as a DwD (Even if he is borderline as a Duergar!) but not the class itself being used by them. I won't linger on the topic but I do not think we should make it viable for all races. Cause it will water down the unique traits and make it less Dwarven and Elven if any races can just be as good if not better cause they get more fiting racial bonuses.

If these end up for all races, I really do hope they are not the same thing icly and in the lore. But I really hope they won't. If one want to be Dwarven or a Elven prestige class? Then play an Elf or a Dwarf.

Last edited by walnutboy on Sun, Apr 07 2019, 21:35 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Maverick00053 wrote:

maglorine wrote:

Mixed feelings. Love the Warslinger. Hoped it would remain Halfling. I tried to emulate a Warslinger with existing classes but what you have presented is better. Are we opening up Arcane Archer and Dwarven Defender?

Not sure yet. We are having discussion about that. It would solve a lot of issues if we did though. Turning AA into a generalist archer type class would allow people to diversify.

Or just make a generalist archer Prc rather than cutting something out of the elven cultural rp. As someone who plays a ranger/MS archer i'd love more archer related stuff, just not at the expense of diluting a reason to play an elf.

Warslinger has always seemed a halfling niche thing, in fact people who play halflings have wanted it for a long time.

Budly wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Yeah I don't think the Escape Artist would be an all-too-useful addition.

It'd just be used as a stepping stone for Epic Dodge, and it does so far worse than SD

One could argue that it doesn't need Mobility but...

Let us be real here, if you already get dodge, i'd get Mobility as well for HiPS in 100% of the cases.

See it as an RP thing, not everything need to be an SD.

I wonder why noone RP's a pure level 30 Rogue.

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Budly wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Yeah I don't think the Escape Artist would be an all-too-useful addition.

It'd just be used as a stepping stone for Epic Dodge, and it does so far worse than SD

One could argue that it doesn't need Mobility but...

Let us be real here, if you already get dodge, i'd get Mobility as well for HiPS in 100% of the cases.

See it as an RP thing, not everything need to be an SD.

I wonder why noone RP's a pure level 30 Rogue.

Likely the same reason few people play a pure class in anything.

I agree Escape Artist could use more love so that it could shine and be a desriable PrC for it's own merits. Congrats on it though, being the spearhead of our new EE Class movements.

Warslinger is wonderful. I can see making one, and kinda want to to try it out. I like that it is open to non-halfling races.

I also think opening up AA and DwD to other races would be a good step forward for diverse characters as well.

Thank you Mav for the awesome work you've put into this!

Kiasyd wrote:

I agree Escape Artist could use more love so that it could shine and be a desriable PrC for it's own merits. Congrats on it though, being the spearhead of our new EE Class movements.

Warslinger is wonderful. I can see making one, and kinda want to to try it out. I like that it is open to non-halfling races.

I also think opening up AA and DwD to other races would be a good step forward for diverse characters as well.

Thank you Mav for the awesome work you've put into this!

If everything is open to everyone, we remove the uniqueness of races and cultures.

On the Archer thing:

Yes. Please, anything Archer-y that isn't an Arcane Archer and is actually worth looking at for more than 10 minutes before realising it is complete trash and unplayable!

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

On the Archer thing:

Yes. Please, anything Archer-y that isn't an Arcane Archer and is actually worth looking at for more than 10 minutes before realising it is complete trash and unplayable!

Then make it a thing of its own. There is other archer PRCs out there. If everyone runs around doing Arcane Archery its a bit...well, watering down on the Elves.

I see the appeal in opening up the classes. Sure, I'd love to see Eyes of Gruumsh, Drow Judicators and every other class in the Drow of the Underdark supplement, but I'll take what I can get.

Budly wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

On the Archer thing:

Yes. Please, anything Archer-y that isn't an Arcane Archer and is actually worth looking at for more than 10 minutes before realising it is complete trash and unplayable!

Then make it a thing of its own. There is other archer PRCs out there. If everyone runs around doing Arcane Archery its a bit...well, watering down on the Elves.

The idea on our end is to avoid making fifty different PRCs that are functionally the same as already existing PRCs, purely because of the racial locks.

But it's still something to discuss! I mean, even if the classes were "unlocked" you can still have the Arcane Archer RP of that particular style of magic/bow use being passed down by your ancestors. There's no real IC reason that other races can't learn a fancy magical archer style that makes them not suck horribly, too. But that's just my personal opinion.

We need something that works on Crossbows, though.

Differenciate Crossbows from Bows, maybe.

But I could also live with AA for Crossbows I guess, would prefer something that doesn't require magic though.

BUT I AIN'T NO DEV, NO IDEA WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESNT BOIZ

Jes wrote:

Budly wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

On the Archer thing:

Yes. Please, anything Archer-y that isn't an Arcane Archer and is actually worth looking at for more than 10 minutes before realising it is complete trash and unplayable!

Then make it a thing of its own. There is other archer PRCs out there. If everyone runs around doing Arcane Archery its a bit...well, watering down on the Elves.

The idea on our end is to avoid making fifty different PRCs that are functionally the same as already existing PRCs, purely because of the racial locks.

But it's still something to discuss! I mean, even if the classes were "unlocked" you can still have the Arcane Archer RP of that particular style of magic/bow use being passed down by your ancestors. There's no real IC reason that other races can't learn a fancy magical archer style that makes them not suck horribly, too. But that's just my personal opinion.

There is lore reasons. There is other "fancy arts" but no one should be an Arcane Archer as a non Elf just like a DwD non Dwarf is also wrong.

If we opened up the classes they would be renamed and descriptions changed. They wouldnt be AA or DwD anymore lorewise.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its ab progression is set up for 2/3 so that is an error.

It definitely needs more.

Monk saves isnt a bad idea.

Giving access to impro invis through a feat and a few more AC was what came to mind. I just don't want to go too far.

Imp Invis is pretty available to anyone.

Let me throw this out to you - what about the Self Concealment feats? It's like much of the concealment you get from Imp Inv, Displacement, Ghostly and Ethereal Visage, etc with one plus - It can't be dispelled. To me it's like the PrC gains the ability to focus on taking cover in any situation. Behind a rock, tree, enemy, friend, summon, whatnot. These feats are virtually impossible to get in game due to the requirements so it would be unique and perhaps give the class a niche. They are used on summons, so it just comes down to balance.

This is a great initiative btw. So much promise.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its ab progression is set up for 2/3 so that is an error.

It definitely needs more.

Monk saves isnt a bad idea.

Giving access to impro invis through a feat and a few more AC was what came to mind. I just don't want to go too far.

Perm. Freedom on Level 10.

Fits lore wise and would make it an actual Choice of "Do I want to be sneaky or uncatchable?"

Jes wrote:

Budly wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

On the Archer thing:

Yes. Please, anything Archer-y that isn't an Arcane Archer and is actually worth looking at for more than 10 minutes before realising it is complete trash and unplayable!

Then make it a thing of its own. There is other archer PRCs out there. If everyone runs around doing Arcane Archery its a bit...well, watering down on the Elves.

The idea on our end is to avoid making fifty different PRCs that are functionally the same as already existing PRCs, purely because of the racial locks.

But it's still something to discuss! I mean, even if the classes were "unlocked" you can still have the Arcane Archer RP of that particular style of magic/bow use being passed down by your ancestors. There's no real IC reason that other races can't learn a fancy magical archer style that makes them not suck horribly, too. But that's just my personal opinion.

As someone who played an archer i'd rather play an archer without the 'magic' assigned to it. While i see the appeal, for me personally playing a magical archer is way different than playing a plain old archer. Not every archer is a magical one and nor should it be forced to just to fit a slot. It's like having a fighter being a knight without becoming a paladin. I get what you mean by RPing AA's differently but honestly, the spells are mechanically the same and no matter which way you try to RP it you are just making everyone the same... which is a great shame. Part of the love and the diversity in a world comes from certain classes only playable as certain races. Yep, there will be an argument about 'you still can, just everyone can' but that rather takes the romance out of the play i think, like D&D but skills, feats and such doesn't matter as in the end we just balance everyone out so there is nothing unique.

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its ab progression is set up for 2/3 so that is an error.

It definitely needs more.

Monk saves isnt a bad idea.

Giving access to impro invis through a feat and a few more AC was what came to mind. I just don't want to go too far.

Perm. Freedom on Level 10.

Fits lore wise and would make it an actual Choice of "Do I want to be sneaky or uncatchable?"

This is now bordering on the Master Scout though, isn't it?

walnutboy wrote:

freaxxshow1338 wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

Its ab progression is set up for 2/3 so that is an error.

It definitely needs more.

Monk saves isnt a bad idea.

Giving access to impro invis through a feat and a few more AC was what came to mind. I just don't want to go too far.

Perm. Freedom on Level 10.

Fits lore wise and would make it an actual Choice of "Do I want to be sneaky or uncatchable?"

This is now bordering on the Master Scout though, isn't it?

Master scout gets gimmicks, no Evasion/Uncanny Dodge and gets Perm Freedom on Level 5, also the two Bonus Feats..

This one would be all about those Dexers, ED and getting Perm Freedom because... its... It's an Escape Artist.

Edit:

Quote:

Level 1: Dash: Master Scout becomes 10% faster in wilderness areas.

Level 2:

Craft Survival Gear: Master Scout can craft various tools and items for a gold cost. The items assist in ambushing enemies and in survivability. Through levels, more items become available for crafting.
Uncanny Dodge I: As per default feat.

Level 3:

Battle Fortitude: Master Scout can call on his hardiness and knowledge and receive +1 to all saves per Master Scout level, for 1 hour per Master Scout level.
Nature Sense: As per default feat.

Level 4: Trackless Step: As per default feat.

Level 5: Flawless Stride: Master Scout gains permanent Freedom.

Bonus Feats: At level 1 and 5, the Master Scout can choose a bonus feat from the following lists:

Bonus Feat List: Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Toughness
Epic Bonus Feat List: Great Strength, Great Constitution, Great Dexterity, Epic Will, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Prowess

One could Argue MS would get far more stuff for half the investment, but I think it balances out.

Escape artist only needs one Feat and no skills, and it's a Stepping Stone for Epic Dodge in 10 Levels, which is a big deal.

I am liking your suggestions guys. The conceal is a really good suggestion and is quite unique. I need to figure out if it is too strong though.

Freedom for free? Isn't that bit powerful? Makes lot of items and spells useless.

Maverick00053 wrote:

If we opened up the classes they would be renamed and descriptions changed. They wouldnt be AA or DwD anymore lorewise.

This, essentially.

RP-wise, I wouldn't have a problem with elves treating it like their racial Art, as they have been. They can call it Arcane Archery IC still, and continue with the RP of learning it through Solonor or Selvetarm or however you've been RP'ing it.

But there's absolutely no reason any other racial type or person can't learn how to do essentially the exact same thing through other means.

Example:

Elf takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's that it's learned from his elven parents and he calls it Arcane Archery IC.

Human takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's learning it from an old Ranger friend of the family, and he calls himself a Megasniper.

Gnome takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's learning it from books, and calls himself a Cheesearrow Specialist.

It expands the RP possibilities, and doesn't restrict proper archery only to elves, when it's entirely possible for other races to learn how to wield a bow with extreme skill and precision. After all, not all Shifters learn/utilize their skills the same way. Not all Dragon Disciples perform rituals to achieve the same effect as other disciples. It's the same theory, but applied to other prestige classes to open up RP possibilities and paths.

That's my take on how that works, at least. But that's just an idea. I can still see the benefit in just adding a non-arcane version (though it is more work and I like simplifying some things). I bet plenty of elves would be interested in that sort of class, too. I just personally always thought racial-locked PrCs were weird. xD

Budly wrote:

Freedom for free? Isn't that bit powerful? Makes lot of items and spells useless.

Master Scout already gets it in 5 levels, so its a thing and really for the trade off in 10 levels, likely not that OP should it come to pass.

Jes wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

If we opened up the classes they would be renamed and descriptions changed. They wouldnt be AA or DwD anymore lorewise.

This, essentially.

RP-wise, I wouldn't have a problem with elves treating it like their racial Art, as they have been. They can call it Arcane Archery IC still, and continue with the RP of learning it through Solonor or Selvetarm or however you've been RP'ing it.

But there's absolutely no reason any other racial type or person can't learn how to do essentially the exact same thing through other means.

Example:

Elf takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's that it's learned from his elven parents and he calls it Arcane Archery IC.

Human takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's learning it from an old Ranger friend of the family, and he calls himself a Megasniper.

Gnome takes new Super Archer PrC, RP's learning it from books, and calls himself a Cheesearrow Specialist.

It expands the RP possibilities, and doesn't restrict proper archery only to elves, when it's entirely possible for other races to learn how to wield a bow with extreme skill and precision. After all, not all Shifters learn/utilize their skills the same way. Not all Dragon Disciples perform rituals to achieve the same effect as other disciples. It's the same theory, but applied to other prestige classes to open up RP possibilities and paths.

That's my take on how that works, at least. But that's just an idea. I can still see the benefit in just adding a non-arcane version (though it is more work and I like simplifying some things). I bet plenty of elves would be interested in that sort of class, too. I just personally always thought racial-locked PrCs were weird. xD

Don't get me wrong, i see it but... making things simple isn't always the best course. You dumb things down too much and it literally becomes cheese to most people, classes and races are made ultimately irrelevant! You end up loosing the core of what the world, the game is based on. I also dislike the idea that, in order for a class or person to be better at something... there has to be a magical component! To poke a lion, i have always found Areliths approach to the ranger paths more appealing as it gives you the stronger archer build, but without having to take up the magic flare of the AA to do it.

walnutboy wrote:

Budly wrote:

Freedom for free? Isn't that bit powerful? Makes lot of items and spells useless.

Master Scout already gets it in 5 levels, so its a thing and really for the trade off in 10 levels, likely not that OP should it come to pass.

It's the harper scout right? I do not get Amias fascination in balancing like a MMO, removing classes, adding things like Freedom and such. Oh well.

Less race locked classes is good.

Escape Artists needs extreme changes to make it worth taking. The only viable build I see for Escape Artist even with Self Conceal V added is 16 rogye 10 EA fighter 4, using the rogue feats for crippling strike and 2 free epic feats instead of ED pre reqs. I still don't consider that very good over going say 19 rogue 6 fighter 5 SD or Master Scout. I'd sooner see Escape Artist turned into something like Factotum, where it gets basically every skill as a class skill, 10 skill points a level, things focused on int and skills, but no major class bonuses in the first 2-3 levels to dissuade it from being the best skill dump class in the game. As it sits right now, Escape Artist doesn't have much going for it at all. Even with some intense feat addition, it still struggles to give anything that SD, monk, rogue, and assassin don't already give along with extreme utility and offensive options.

Warslinger is pretty decent. Don't forget to add Great Dex and Epic Weapon Focus Sling to the bonus feat list. If you wanted to add some oomph to them, you could allow them to get Overwhelming Critical without the other feat and STR investment. I'd probably also add Armor Skin to them. It could probably afford to have some actual ability beyond just being a 5 level class that makes OK ammo and is a big bag of free ranged feats.

Budly wrote:

walnutboy wrote:

Budly wrote:

Freedom for free? Isn't that bit powerful? Makes lot of items and spells useless.

Master Scout already gets it in 5 levels, so its a thing and really for the trade off in 10 levels, likely not that OP should it come to pass.

It's the harper scout right? I do not get Amias fascination in balancing like a MMO, removing classes, adding things like Freedom and such. Oh well.

Point is, 10 levels is serious investment when you only have 30 levels to play with.

Why is it good? It renders impopular races even less pickable, liek Dwarves if DwD gets a buff but all can take it. It also undermines lore, culture, history and society of said races by opening them up. Mechanics should not triumph over such parts on a persistent roleplay server.

TormakSaber wrote:

Warslinger is pretty decent. Don't forget to add Great Dex and Epic Weapon Focus Sling to the bonus feat list. If you wanted to add some oomph to them, you could allow them to get Overwhelming Critical without the other feat and STR investment. I'd probably also add Armor Skin to them. It could probably afford to have some actual ability beyond just being a 5 level class that makes OK ammo and is a big bag of free ranged feats.

Actually, looking at the Warslinger couldn't such be adapted for an archer PrC as well? 5 levels of something that gives oomph to a bow user that isn't magically based like an AA would certainly seem to round out a more mundane based archer if balanced right. :mrgreen:

Yes it can but I don't want an AA to double dip and be even more ridiculous. So if we go that route I'll probably restrict it to non elves only.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Yes it can but I don't want an AA to double dip and be even more ridiculous. So if we go that route I'll probably restrict it to non elves only.

How to explain that ICLy? And would it be possible to pick one over the other as an Elf? To not do the Arcane archery icly?

Mav has it exactly right. You cannot use the Warsling PrC as a "template" for something similar in Bow precisely because of the existence of the Arcane Archer class.

On the other hand, you could use it as a template for pretty much any other ranged weapon. Darts? Crossbows? Anything. Ranged combat, aside from Arcane Archer and the Longbow, is inferior to melee.

Last edited by walnutboy on Mon, Apr 08 2019, 0:29 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Yes it can but I don't want an AA to double dip and be even more ridiculous. So if we go that route I'll probably restrict it to non elves only.

That would be cool, in my mind at least lol Elves, being elves, would likely never dilute their skill pool with an 'inferior' set of skills anyway! :lol:

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