Joined: 04 May 2007 Location: Olympic Villiage 2010
Here's a dilemma:
Say you're going after boss loot, and there's a group in front of you, so you stay out of sight and tag along behind them. They kill the boss, you watch from a distance and wait for them to leave, but they don't. There's no DM on.
Is it against the rules or otherwise morally gray to stand by the boss when they spawn it the second time and grab any loot before they do?
Just to clarify, this isn't a question of stealing epic loot from players who fought hard to get there, it's stealing from a party that spawned a boss a second time, a boss that should rightfully be yours to kill. You're just letting them kill it for you.
The proper answer is to report them, with screenshots, and notify any DM's on, via in game or msn if you know any.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
Uh. I'd say that's wrong on both accounts. People A shouldn't be camping and Person B shouldn't be standing there waiting for them to spawn it, then steal their loot after they kill it. Person B -SHOULD- ask them to move on because camping is against the rules and screenshot it if they don't.
Both ninja looting and boss farming are against the rules.
An interesting third option would be to mess up their plan right when the boss spawns. Of course that would again go against the PvP rules I presume, but it'd be good for a laugh.
"So...I guess I'll be sending the screenies of this to the DMs. See, they have these trackers that can tell when a player last logged in and out of the server, so they can look at my screenied long list of logins(which I could conceivably Photoshop), compare it to their tracker (which I cannot access, let alone fake) and see that, yep you have been here for an illegal length of time.
Person B -SHOULD- ask them to move on because camping is against the rules and screenshot it if they don't.
I would say this. Appear OOCly or send a tell saying you're next in line and waiting, please and thank you.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~ Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer Bolt AmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
I would tell them you would like a turn, and do the dungeon all over again, not ride thier coat-tails to the boss, and then wait for the boss to respawn, skipping all the work of fighting the rest of the dungeon.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
It is not just a player dispute if a player is camping a boss spawn. Just because you tell them to move along and they do doesn't mean they didn't break the rule, regardless. Of course, you can choose just to let them go without informing a DM, but I guarantee you, if you catch a person doing it once, they're going to keep doing it again and again and again until a DM gives them some serious punishment for it.
It is no waste of our time for you to PM a screenie to us with the player involved. We can address the issue in due time.
And if it sounds like I'm asking you players to be NARCs, well, I am, hehe.
Has anyone else noticed the DMs pick and choose where roleplay sensibilities apply regarding rules? The most obvious reason for having a no camping rule is that it makes no RP sense. Monsters don't respawn; they regroup, ressurect, come home from hunting trips, et cetera. Compare this to twinking rules and you'll see that despite the rules making no sense in terms of RP, the DMs say, "RP reasons are irrelevant". Both rules could come under the banner of 'balance' rules, yet each rule seems to have different criteria, as if chopping up the jigsaw so the pieces will fit into place.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Camping bosses is not allowed because it's just lame and rude towards other players. I don't know about individual DMs' opinions, but that's my justification for the rule and I'm fairly certain when I say it's the popular opinion.
_________________
On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
The balance maintained is vital and has been working long before you've called the judgement into question.
If the rules were truly adequate, this thread wouldn't exist.
Also, Iron's quite right in what he says. I don't endorse camping and don't do it myself, but surely it's something that could be worked out by players, without the need for the hefty punishments that seem almost automatic when dealing with certain portions of the DM team?
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
Slig wrote:
Yurell wrote:
Tell them they're breaking the rules and ask them to leave. If they disagree, show them the rules. If they refuse, screenie.
That. DMs should be a last resort. I mean, you don't get into a domestic argument and ring the police as a first step, do you?
I actually had that same feeling for a while. Then a DM told me in so much words.."Listen. If you don't tell us what's going on we can't do a thing to help you. It's our JOB." Of course I pick and choose the situations carefully, with with something this yucky poo poo I'd probably send a tell.
Plus I think they secretly get off on busting people and I'm a people pleaser.
_________________ We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
Last edited by Lally on Thu, Feb 05 2009, 23:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Tell them they're breaking the rules and ask them to leave. If they disagree, show them the rules. If they refuse, screenie.
That. DMs should be a last resort. I mean, you don't get into a domestic argument and ring the police as a first step, do you?
No. But I still want you to clue us in on who is camping boss spawns. Because if you see them do it, it is a habitual thing. If you want a discussion on the heart of the rule, the point of it, you can. I'm not much of a rules DM myself, I just try to enforce the ones that exist when I see the opportunity. And this one is important enough to warrant its own thread more than one time, and I, personally, am getting tired of seeing complaints about the behavior, heh.
That way a Dm can tell them what they are doing wrong, and what can happen if they do it again. You don't have to tell them to wait for the DM to show up.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
What exactly is the punishment for boss camping? Can we have an officail dm one please. Ive on a few occassions seen shouts sent warning people not too. I have also been in a party where the group stayed in the boss spawn for 7 consecutive spawns, gaining two epic loot drops.
The punishment it seems does not outway the reward in this case, and campers wont stop until it does.
I do however have a question, is rp in a spawn area classed as camping? if niether players are prepaed in any manner for the spawn. And if you are the only player on amia B, is staying in the same spawn area still hogging an area? If noone is on to run into you, your not exactly stopping anothers chances at having the area.
And if you are the only player on amia B, is staying in the same spawn area still hogging an area? If noone is on to run into you, your not exactly stopping anothers chances at having the area.
Yes, it is. Run around in circles over and over for all I care but don't camp the spawn.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
And if you are the only player on amia B, is staying in the same spawn area still hogging an area? If noone is on to run into you, your not exactly stopping anothers chances at having the area.
Yes, it is. Run around in circles over and over for all I care but don't camp the spawn.
Two problems with this, Tormak:
That number one, if he's the only one on the server he cannot harm anyone else's gameplay and has no need to roleplay (in fact, that would be a sign of madness). There's no reason to enforce this rule except perhaps for balance and if he's capable of reaching the boss once he's probably capable of doing it again, he'd just rather not. Ergo, he'd enjoy the game more if he didn't.
And number two, who's going to enforce it? If he's alone on the server it stands to reason that it is impossible to enforce this rule.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
And number two, who's going to enforce it? If he's alone on the server it stands to reason that it is impossible to enforce this rule.
It isn't impossible, but I will concede that it is ultimately a losing battle. Your logic is sound. But the price of removing the rule or at least making an attempt at enforcing it is people claiming the area and allowing no one access to it. Since DMs are the only ones who can physically remove a person from an area, or giving them a lasting punishment for being jerks.
To what Slig said earlier.. I don't think every rule needs RP justification. There's enough people that take this as an Action server. I'd rather the punishments for boss camping, twinking and etc were made much harsher. And that killing the same boss twice in a single day/days/week was also disallowed.
I mean, just look at the ridiculous PC Notice board. "Selling 12 pieces of boss loot now!" And then you'll have the same little crowd of folks betting millions on EVERY auction. How fucked up is that?
Xordae, Amia is a split RP and hack'n'slash server. As is the fate with all servers of its type, there is a rift in the player base. You're not going to get rid of that because there are already better servers for more serious roleplay, but Amia fills a niche in that it makes a good starting place for newbies to roleplay and a good place for casual roleplay.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
D-Finitiy wrote:
Here's a dilemma:
Say you're going after boss loot, and there's a group in front of you, so you stay out of sight and tag along behind them. They kill the boss, you watch from a distance and wait for them to leave, but they don't. There's no DM on.
Is it against the rules or otherwise morally gray to stand by the boss when they spawn it the second time and grab any loot before they do?
Just to clarify, this isn't a question of stealing epic loot from players who fought hard to get there, it's stealing from a party that spawned a boss a second time, a boss that should rightfully be yours to kill. You're just letting them kill it for you.
What are the options in this situation? Thanks.
Errr heres an answer.
Any of the PC's therein (you included) waiting the next boss spawn are camping and breaking the rules. Thus judging by the entire premise of the thread is the OP doing something illegal and inadvertantly admitting to it?
By waiting there 15 minutes the party who have trudged through the fire giant spawns rather than GS-ed or followed another group are disadvantaged by both groups, and it -is- definetly the first party and the follower camping out a boss spawn. If a boss dies in front of you or -doesn't- spawn you leave the area because thats tricks. Any waiting around is camping even if you haven't had your oppurtunity against it.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
I kinda like the idea of stamping a character with a variable any time someone in their party kills the boss (in this case call it HaveKilledFGK) that vanishes after 30 minutes.
Every time the boss spawns in, it'll check for that variable and if it finds it on any of the players in the area, it'll get a buff of +40 to all stats, +20AB, perma-Haste, +50 Magic damage per hit and dragonsight.
Battle log: The Fire King is Filled With Lust for Rewengi!
Last edited by Uberuce on Fri, Feb 06 2009, 11:28 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Uberuce wrote:
I kinda like the idea of stamping a character with a variable any time someone in their party kills a boss (in this case call it HaveKilledFGK) that vanishes after 30 minutes.
Every time the boss spawns in, it'll check for that variable and if it finds it on any of the players in the area, it'll get a buff of +40 to all stats, +20AB, perma-Haste, +50 Magic damage per hit and dragonsight.
So if you're a poor innocent party, walk into the area when there's a camper hiding, you get screwed?
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
The punishment it seems does not outway the reward in this case, and campers wont stop until it does.
That. If you want to hurt them, strip their inventory and gold to a plain ol' nothing. It's what they deserve, and it might dissuade them from pulling this kinda crap again. Circlejerkers and bosscampers are two of the very rare coinsidences where I feel like going PvP happy, and just killing them over and over and over and over and over again. I don't, of course, because I'm such a good boy.. But I want to!
_________________ Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
Has anyone else noticed the DMs pick and choose where roleplay sensibilities apply regarding rules? The most obvious reason for having a no camping rule is that it makes no RP sense. Monsters don't respawn; they regroup, ressurect, come home from hunting trips, et cetera. Compare this to twinking rules and you'll see that despite the rules making no sense in terms of RP, the DMs say, "RP reasons are irrelevant". Both rules could come under the banner of 'balance' rules, yet each rule seems to have different criteria, as if chopping up the jigsaw so the pieces will fit into place.
The rules are the rules because they are the rules, and the DM's made them. You abide by them, or don't, then you are punished.
I'm certain that they will not change. I don't believe they should change either.
If you want gear you cannot get on your own on your pc? Hire a PC merchant, or put up a post, and save up the cash for it.
Its fairly simple.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
The rules are the rules because they are the rules, and the DM's made them.
Reminds me of a poster I once saw saying, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"
I prefer to question that which I believe could be better, because it's the act of questioning something that brings scrutiny, debate and eventually a consolidated solution wherein everyone benefits.
Understand, I'm not trying to have a little pop at the DMs. I've a healthy respect for Yossarin, IronAngel and even Tormak when he puts some effort into a response. In this case I'm merely arguing that disputes might be better settled by players with the option of DM influence on encountering an aggressive response.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
What do you believe could be better about having an epic level character and dropping gold/equipment on the ground for that character to get?
Or if you meant high level characters running lowbies through an area then there is still rp reasons for that ruling.
Exp is based off risk in DnD. The challenge rating vs your character level determines the risk and the reward. Or the level of your group for most things. If you have an epic mage running you around there is very little risk and therefore no reward, despite the party mechanics being blind to the actual situation. This is good rp, yes, but that rp is actually more like TRAINING which doesn't reward exp but rather the time in pnp it takes for your mage or warrior or lvl 20 butt-scratcher to turn his exp into a new level. When you gained enough exp in pnp you didn't just DING and get your new crap. You then had to go and spend time training to translate all this combat experience into new talents, feats, attacks, etc.
There is still very much common sense, fair-play, and rp taken into account with the rulings from the DMs. You just have look a little more than the tip of your own reasoning.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
Exp is based off risk in DnD. The challenge rating vs your character level determines the risk and the reward.
If that were true, I shouldn't be able to get experience points while under greater sanctuary; I can. If that were true, I shouldn't be able to get experience points when my DR is enough that no creature in the area can damage me; I can. If that were true, I should have my experience points docked for standing at a safe distance flinging spells; I don't.
Clearly, if it truly is a fact that "Exp is based off risk in DnD" then it is poorly implemented in Neverwinter Nights and Amia. In any case, I think we're getting a touch off the topic at hand. This thread regards the rule on camping, not babysitting.
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Slig wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
Quote:
And if you are the only player on amia B, is staying in the same spawn area still hogging an area? If noone is on to run into you, your not exactly stopping anothers chances at having the area.
Yes, it is. Run around in circles over and over for all I care but don't camp the spawn.
Two problems with this, Tormak:
That number one, if he's the only one on the server he cannot harm anyone else's gameplay and has no need to roleplay (in fact, that would be a sign of madness). There's no reason to enforce this rule except perhaps for balance and if he's capable of reaching the boss once he's probably capable of doing it again, he'd just rather not. Ergo, he'd enjoy the game more if he didn't.
And number two, who's going to enforce it? If he's alone on the server it stands to reason that it is impossible to enforce this rule.
Your never alone on a server. And just because you -can- do something Clonejyn doesn't mean you should. Irrespective if i see suspect activity i either go "Notify DM" or take a bunch of screenies and send a tell saying "Stop doing this or i'l send these screenies to a DM".
A threat of trouble is a fair deterrent.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
Your never alone on a server. And just because you -can- do something Clonejyn doesn't mean you should. Irrespective if i see suspect activity i either go "Notify DM" or take a bunch of screenies and send a tell saying "Stop doing this or i'l send these screenies to a DM".
Clearly you never play Amia B at midday GMT on a week day.
Also, What's a Clonejyn?
_________________ "All progress comes when somebody says: 'Who gave him the right to do that to me?'" - Tony Benn
Has anyone else noticed the DMs pick and choose where roleplay sensibilities apply regarding rules? The most obvious reason for having a no camping rule is that it makes no RP sense. Monsters don't respawn; they regroup, ressurect, come home from hunting trips, et cetera. Compare this to twinking rules and you'll see that despite the rules making no sense in terms of RP, the DMs say, "RP reasons are irrelevant". Both rules could come under the banner of 'balance' rules, yet each rule seems to have different criteria, as if chopping up the jigsaw so the pieces will fit into place.
You kinda drove it off topic. Just showing that this statement isn't true.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
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