AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey!

Here's something I've been wondering about, for the sake of all Listeners:

What's your opinion on whispering? I see players claiming to whisper with each other but not use the /w whisper command and instead relying on tells, which are obviously unhearable.

Is /w broken? (Does it even consider the Listen skill? I think so, but can't find anything on it right now.)
Should people with Listen just roll Listen skill to signal other people that they want to hear what is being said?
What's the DC to hear whispering nearby?

Regards
Ts

Whisper channel is not broken. Personally I've always relied on the game mechanic of overhearing a whisper, which to my knowledge only takes distance into account, not listen check. I don't know if the DMs have another opinion on this.

I have only ever used a tell channel for whisper I think... twice, and it was because my PC put their lips directly against someone's ear and basically 'breathed' words which were clearly not meant to be overheard. I'd consider using tells for whispers to bypass the game mechanics a form of meta-gaming. Again, our DMs opinions may differ. These are just my own.

I haven't role-played with a character with a high listen skill yet, but most people that role-play whispering do so with an emote like: *whispers are exchanged*.

Ability to use the "listen" skill to hear that whisper would require OOC consent given by the whisperers, since "listen" used in this way is a pen and paper skill, and all pen and paper spells/skills are usable only on those that give OOC consent.

Yes sorry, the game does not care about your listen skill lol! Whisper is based off of distance.

I would find it VERY refreshing if anyone rolled listen around me to hear my conversations, I'd gladly give you an answer... though it may be tidbits out of context..... "She sold... baby... to dog... for two pants... and your mother...is she green?"

Blue Moon wrote:

"She sold... baby... to dog... for two pants... and your mother...is she green?"

LOL, so awesome....

I almost want to make a character with listen just to hear that.

As much as I generally loathe the phrase "you're doing it wrong," I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong.

Liz wrote:

As much as I generally loathe the phrase "you're doing it wrong," I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong.

welp, then go ahead and delete all of my characters from your mental existence. I scry, send magical messages, grapple with people (which is resolved OOC since it's pnp), use spot to determine characteristics, use heal to determine if someone is healthy or not, use search to see through disguise, use spellcraft to determine what pnp spell is being cast, and ... actually, just go ahead and throw out your dice.

Liz wrote:

As much as I generally loathe the phrase "you're doing it wrong," I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong.

As are those who meta game "hearing" a whisper without even a token attempt at rping why they should even get an attempt to roll some sort of listen check.

Problem is just like the whole language thing, it relies on player "honour" or "honesty" and yeah lol with that one

Personally I have used tells for certain whispered conversations depending on the context of the exchange, I.E. whispering in someones ear is not going to be overheard realistically until some wizard invents the parabolic microphone..... on the other hand mere low voice conversation within a group is another matter.

joe15552 wrote:

Liz wrote:

As much as I generally loathe the phrase "you're doing it wrong," I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong.

welp, then go ahead and delete all of my characters from your mental existence. I scry, send magical messages, grapple with people (which is resolved OOC since it's pnp), use spot to determine characteristics, use heal to determine if someone is healthy or not, use search to see through disguise, use spellcraft to determine what pnp spell is being cast, and ... actually, just go ahead and throw out your dice.

Almost none of that is RPing. It's die rolling, which is wholly OOC.

Edit: I say "almost" because a Sending is sort of kind of RPing, and has no better way to represent it in game than by a /tell.

VitalTouch wrote:

I.E. whispering in someones ear is not going to be overheard realistically until some wizard invents the parabolic microphone..... on the other hand mere low voice conversation within a group is another matter.[/color]

If I was playing my shadowdancer, and people started "whispering" in /tells while I was stalking them from stealth, I'd have to call shenanigans pretty much instantly. Which would pretty much destroy the stalking attempt. No, I'll stick by my statement: If you're RPing in /tells, you should stop.

Yups (IMO). Unless you got an ironclad reason your whisper can't be heard by people, it should be in whisper channel, not Tells.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yups (IMO). Unless you got an ironclad reason your whisper can't be heard by people, it should be in whisper channel, not Tells.

This. I can only see tells being used (for IC stuff) if you would be attempting to give a descriptive fluff to something the person in question would be witness too - and even then it would be limited as to when/why only they'd see it. Or sending and the like.

Liz wrote:

joe15552 wrote:

Liz wrote:

As much as I generally loathe the phrase "you're doing it wrong," I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong.

welp, then go ahead and delete all of my characters from your mental existence. I scry, send magical messages, grapple with people (which is resolved OOC since it's pnp), use spot to determine characteristics, use heal to determine if someone is healthy or not, use search to see through disguise, use spellcraft to determine what pnp spell is being cast, and ... actually, just go ahead and throw out your dice.

Almost none of that is RPing. It's die rolling, which is wholly OOC.

Edit: I say "almost" because a Sending is sort of kind of RPing, and has no better way to represent it in game than by a /tell.

Grappling is not rp? Spotting is not rp? I mean.... "Spot Check" isn't familiar to you at all? Determining someone's ailment using the heal skill is not RP? Searching for clues is not RP? Determining what spell is being cast is not RP?

What IS RP to you, Liz?

Using tells for normal IC communication is metagaming and not allowed. After all, DMs can't see them so if a DM is watching, guess what? You didn't do any of that RP you claimed just happened. Otherwise you could claim to know all sorts of things you shouldn't know. The stance has long since been that tells are OOC (just like party chat) except under certain circumstances (ie Sendings via tells or knocking on a door via party chat).

joe15552 wrote:

Grappling is not rp? Spotting is not rp? I mean.... "Spot Check" isn't familiar to you at all? Determining someone's ailment using the heal skill is not RP? Searching for clues is not RP? Determining what spell is being cast is not RP?

What IS RP to you, Liz?

RP is RP. Die rolling is not. I don't know how to make that plainer. If you're having a conversation with someone in /tells, that is RP, which should not take place in /tells. If you're rolling skill checks and describing their results in /tells, that's die rolling. Not RP. And seriously, man, ease back on the hostility a touch, yeah?

Liz wrote:

joe15552 wrote:

Grappling is not rp? Spotting is not rp? I mean.... "Spot Check" isn't familiar to you at all? Determining someone's ailment using the heal skill is not RP? Searching for clues is not RP? Determining what spell is being cast is not RP?

What IS RP to you, Liz?

RP is RP. Die rolling is not. I don't know how to make that plainer. If you're having a conversation with someone in /tells, that is RP, which should not take place in /tells. If you're rolling skill checks and describing their results in /tells, that's die rolling. Not RP. And seriously, man, ease back on the hostility a touch, yeah?

I'm hostile, and you're the one that said "I think it's pretty safe to say if you're RPing in /tells.... you're doing it wrong."?

Dice are a tool used in some "role-playing" games used to determine the outcome of role-play. One of those games is Dungeons and Dragons.

What constructive outcome are you hoping to achieve by being condescending, Joe? You two, and anyone else, are welcome to discuss opposing view points and make their case for each and whatever else they want, but when it comes to talking down to someone in this manner, it's not helpful in the slightest.

That's "wrong" as in "not within server policy." It wasn't a value judgment or condemnation. In any case, I think we've made it clear that the things you're insisting are valid are not the same things I'm asserting are invalid. I don't have any objection to your resolving your die rolls in OOC channels such as /tells. I'm objecting only to IC conversation occurring in /tells. I don't see that we're in disagreement at all.

Yeah, I've always been under the impression that using tells as a 'super-secret' whisper was against the rules.

I do use tells to describe the outcomes of rolls to people-- but that's not my character trying to whisper directly to them, it's me as a player trying to give the other player private results of his attempted Lore/Spot/Etc roll. And the only reason I send that information privately, typically, is so that it leaves the receiving player with the ability to decide how to use that information instead of me forcing them.

For instance: if an evil character with a bunch of non-evil friends sees my monstrous PC, and the presumably evil character rolls a lore check to determine the nature of my being, I'm going to give him private results. If I said, "*You detect he is a Half-Rakshasa*" or something in public chat, and his friends turn to him and say, "Do you know what he is?" When the evil guy says, "No, I've got no idea," all of his companions now OOCly know that he was lying. Instead, by sending them the results privately, it puts the power in that player's hands to report his findings as accurately or inaccurately as he prefers.

Tells are almost always OOC, with very few exceptions. If it's not patently against the rules and cheesing (People able to whisper so quietly that no one [but the person you intend] is able to mechanically hear you isn't an ability I'm aware of), it's still a pretty big slight to any potential rogue player and poor taste.

The only time I've ever seen a justifiable IC tell exchange in place of IC communication is Drow Hand Signal, because ICly (As far as I know), it's supposed to be only identifiable strictly to the person it was intended towards, and no one else.

I do not understand why anyone would ever justify a tell over an IG-whisper when two characters are conversing in a hushed tone. What you are doing is effectively eliminating any kind of eavesdropping from a mechanical standpoint.

In short, I will agree with Liz on this one!

IC conversation should not be had in ICly unreachable channels. I would have bought it if a character was telepathic... but that isn't a thing on Amia!

Blue Moon wrote:

Yes sorry, the game does not care about your listen skill lol! Whisper is based off of distance.

I would find it VERY refreshing if anyone rolled listen around me to hear my conversations, I'd gladly give you an answer... though it may be tidbits out of context..... "She sold... baby... to dog... for two pants... and your mother...is she green?"

I'm so going to go around the island and roll it all the time from now on.

You can use Tells for cybersex and not tell anyone! It's good for those DM events with lots of people, you get bored so you stand around without actually participating, sending steamy Tells to your mate probably in the same room at the time. And don't worry, you still get a DC.

Opustus wrote:

You can use Tells for cybersex and not tell anyone! It's good for those DM events with lots of people, you get bored so you stand around without actually participating, sending steamy Tells to your mate probably in the same room at the time. And don't worry, you still get a DC.

Until you get that random mistell and then you find out the true story of how a kobold is made. Dirtiest DC I ever earned......

I almost always use /w for whispers, however, there are times when my character goes to great length to not be overheard, in which case I feel a tell is appropriate. However, I do make it abundantly clear IC that something is being said. An emote like....

*leans across the table and cups hands around mouth to whisper in so-and-so's ear*

or just, *cups hands around mouth to quiet her whisper to so-and-so*

in such instances it does give the rp opportunity to roll a listen check if someone's character is interested, which I will also respect and give attention to.

Lastly, if I'm in a DM event, and my character is whispering with someone else about things not related to the plot, I will use tells, only to avoid spamming other peoples screens with my off topic chatter. Even then, I do emote whispering.

Yeah, sorry not buying it. The listen skill is a core mechanic. Until A stealthy character can remain hidden with 112 Hide skill no matter what any-ones Spot skill may be, you're being a douche if you use tells for whispered conversations.

If anyone didn't wish their conversation to have a chance of being overheard, they would be somewhere without others listening in. Not only does it metagame the sometimes extraordinary abilities of player characters, it takes away potential RP of those around you.

Running around on a character that is keeping secrets and being spied on, I use /w. I want to give those SD's and sneakers the opportunity to find out something juicy. If I don't want anyone to overhear, there are ways to do that and still use /w.

I really like the idea of sending a tell to the whisperer and rolling a listen!

I'll throw out Drow Hand Sign as well. No one but a drow from the underdark would be able to "see" and understand the sign. As a matter of fact, DHS has different 'dialects' if you will. Each noble house would have a slightly different version. Sort of like a baseball team and their signals, at least that's how I think of it. I'm pretty sure it can't be used in sunlight since it depends on infra-vision to see it all.

In any case, I put that in the talk or whisper channel cause it's fun to have a conversation where the player can see it OOCly and not be able to react to it ICly. Course I'm just mean like that.

MazeOfThorns wrote:

I really like the idea of sending a tell to the whisperer and rolling a listen!

I really don't.

It means the sneaker has to announce her presence. The folks being eavesdropped on inevitably will change their RP to accommodate that OOC knowledge. Even if they're not doing it intentionally or maliciously.

MazeOfThorns wrote:

I'll throw out Drow Hand Sign as well. No one but a drow from the underdark would be able to "see" and understand the sign. As a matter of fact, DHS has different 'dialects' if you will. Each noble house would have a slightly different version. Sort of like a baseball team and their signals, at least that's how I think of it.

So in other words, it's... exactly like every other language in the game.

Only the people who would plausibly have knowledge of the language should be able to understand it, yet every other language in the game is required to be spoken in /talk or /whisper channels. I kind of eye-roll at the "privileged" status of drow hand sign. There's simply no chance at all that it would be 100% restricted to Underdark drow, especially given Amia's profusion of Eilistraeens who used to be Underdark drow and have a compelling motive for teaching hand-sign to every surfacer they possibly can, just to screw up the spider-kissers' plans.

MazeOfThorns wrote:

I'm pretty sure it can't be used in sunlight since it depends on infra-vision to see it all.

Infravision doesn't exist in 3rd Edition, and if it did, elves and dwarves would still have it too.

RE: DHS, it actually is restricted. The biggest case in point is house-sign. Those are restricted to a specific house and if you aren't in the house, well.. you won't know it. And surfacers wouldn't be able to understand DHS either. Whoredancers maybe, but not humans and the like.

From what I've read, DHS isn't actually restricted. Drow just get it as a 'bonus language' - other races have to spend skill points in PnP, unless new rules overrode the FRC for 3rd edition. Or if I didn't read it incorrectly!

And yeah, part of worked off of infravision in 2nd edition, which is no longer a thing.

Liz wrote:

MazeOfThorns wrote:

I really like the idea of sending a tell to the whisperer and rolling a listen!

I really don't.

It means the sneaker has to announce her presence. The folks being eavesdropped on inevitably will change their RP to accommodate that OOC knowledge. Even if they're not doing it intentionally or maliciously.

Ah, I don't have a sneaker so I was talking about someone standing sort of near but just out of range of the whisper. Eavesdropping right out in the open kind of thing. :twisted:

Liz wrote:

So in other words, it's... exactly like every other language in the game.

Only the people who would plausibly have knowledge of the language should be able to understand it, yet every other language in the game is required to be spoken in /talk or /whisper channels. I kind of eye-roll at the "privileged" status of drow hand sign. There's simply no chance at all that it would be 100% restricted to Underdark drow, especially given Amia's profusion of Eilistraeens who used to be Underdark drow and have a compelling motive for teaching hand-sign to every surfacer they possibly can, just to screw up the spider-kissers' plans.

Not 100% restricted however, like every other language in the game you'd have to be taught it and it should be pretty difficult if you're not a drow, imho. BTW - I always /t or /w when talking in Drow Hand Sign. My drow doesn't have a lot of rogue levels so I don't automatically think he understands thieves cant. Likewise his understanding of other languages is limited. I don't eyeroll when other characters speak in a language he can't understand and frankly doesn't have enough intelligence to ever learn. And remember, Lolthite drow would make sure that the hand sign they use is different enough that they wouldn't be understood by outsiders.

I mentioned it since I have known others to send DHS in tells and think they really shouldn't. I rely on other players to not metagame. So far so good.

The issue, though, is also as stated: there's different dialects to DHS. Houses, for one, are the biggest. Then there's DHS depending on the city/region as well. So it's really hard to even know if you understand the correct DHS. Also, I'm fairly certain DHS can only be understood (if ever) and never used by non-drow. I remember reading something about other races not being able to manipulate their hands correctly for some reason.

You also have to account for the fact that even the most subtle of alterations to a sign can change it's meaning. It's far more difficult to understand something you can't hear, heh.

I definitely agree that DHS is difficult for surfacers to learn. I completely reject that it would be impossible. Even if a human's or surface elf's hands were anatomically significantly different (which is kind of nonsensical in itself), that would only affect her ability to "speak" DHS, not to understand it when "spoken" by others. And the differences between dialects of DHS are vastly overstated. I don't doubt that each house would have a few custom signs of its own, but to say that every single one of the thousands of drow houses on Faerun has invented its own unique signing system, none of which are mutually intelligible, is, I'm sorry to have to be so blunt, just a steaming pile of horseshit.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion.

I'll step out of this now, as that comment was highly unnecessary and far from 'blunt'; it was flat-out rude.

I intended it to be glib, rather than rude; I apologize if my

didn't make that plain.

Oh trust me, when the society is all about betrayal and chaos - ie. Lolthite - then you can bet each house has their own version of DHS. Otherwise, the houses plans would be found out pretty quickly and the house would be taken out. Just think amazingly paranoid and insanely so.

Few other races would have the need to do such a thing. It'd be for survival, not for fun or just cause it'd look cool.

And that'd be rotheshit, sistah!

I was under the impression that DHS was a limited language anyways. More of a combat shorthand than a full fledged language for full discourse. That makes a difference for each house having it's own, since if it very limited they aren't coming up with a full language, just enough simple gestures they can communicate simple ideas to each other silently. The regional versions might be even more limited, only the very basics being shared.

I don't think I would mind DHS being handled in game with *extremely* limited IC tells. "DHS: Attack Left" And really, even that is pushing it a bit, since there is NO physical movement represented in game to go along with it. Anything more than extremely limited communication in extremely particular situations would be gaming the system, taking advantage of the limitations of the game engine.

It would be even cooler if you worked out what those DHS signals were ahead of time with the people you play with, and simply included them in your actual IG RP. That would be pretty awesome in fact.

There is no other situation I can fathom in which someone whispering even could have an ironclad assurance no one else could her them. Between the the mastery some characters have at listening, the gear to enhance those skills, and possibly magic or supernatural and extraordinary abilities put on top of all that... There's probably some characters running around that can hear the your character's arteries clogging after too many sweets in Bendir.

As for languages in general, what was the reason different languages (that actually scramble the text for other) were not implemented? I seem to recall some discussion about that a while back, but not the reasoning.

Lascer wrote:

It would be even cooler if you worked out what those DHS signals were ahead of time with the people you play with, and simply included them in your actual IG RP. That would be pretty awesome in fact.

Omg, so very this. Please, please do this, drow folks. I will wuv you forever and ever.

I like that idea a lot! Elvis never used DHS but she would if that was how someone wanted to do it with her. (Thats what she said?) On the note of Tell whispering, I only use it when it's a Sending or something magical. Prayers. Feelings or innuendo a being may be able to pick up in particular, depending on how well they know my characters. The latter of which varies from character to character and player to player depending on preference.

I loooove that someone started this conversation though. It's been one I always wanted to have but avoided for fear of all the feelings that are getting vomited out above. I'm often a proponent of feelings... But rarely so in topics that have so much to do with what proper RP is. The community has suffered a lot from elitist points of view- and I'm not criticizing anyone specifically!- just try to remain aware of that, folks.

For every claim of "meta gaming" as to how someone can abuse the nwn game mechanic of whisper chat, there will be a counter claim of why it cant be overheard.

Frankly as I don't wish to be meta gamed by the dishonest "shadow dancers" dancing in light or any other character and other variations I will do what seems best to me to represent the RP of my character and those with whom I am rping.

Just to say, it's not just about shadowdancers... anyone can hide, rogues can have just as high of a score as SDs, and anyone at all can drop an invis potion. The odds are stacked against sneakers too. So while I'll admit people sneaking down the middle of a road in broad daylight is a bit silly, it's sorta the limitations of the nwn game engine we are working with there. I try to just assume they are hiding behind the random passersby or trade wagons that do not get actually displayed in-game. It's also a shame Bioware didn't bother to make hearing whispers to have anything at all to do with the listen skill. But I don't think if someone does hear the whisker, they are metagaming in any example.

I know 'Improving Amia' is closed, so this is just a question of possibility rather then a suggestion for implementation, but is it possible to add a listen check to hear whispers? Is it hard coded, or could we make a separate widget to requires a listen check of the hearer to display what the person that activated the widget is saying? Whispering seems to be used a lot, so I'd guess that to be a function that would be worth putting time towards.

Lascer wrote:

Just to say, it's not just about shadowdancers... anyone can hide, rogues can have just as high of a score as SDs, and anyone at all can drop an invis potion. The odds are stacked against sneakers too. So while I'll admit people sneaking down the middle of a road in broad daylight is a bit silly, it's sorta the limitations of the nwn game engine we are working with there. I try to just assume they are hiding behind the random passersby or trade wagons that do not get actually displayed in-game. It's also a shame Bioware didn't bother to make hearing whispers to have anything at all to do with the listen skill. But I don't think if someone does hear the whisker, they are metagaming in any example.

I know 'Improving Amia' is closed, so this is just a question of possibility rather then a suggestion for implementation, but is it possible to add a listen check to hear whispers? Is it hard coded, or could we make a separate widget to requires a listen check of the hearer to display what the person that activated the widget is saying? Whispering seems to be used a lot, so I'd guess that to be a function that would be worth putting time towards.

VitalTouch wrote:

For every claim of "meta gaming" as to how someone can abuse the nwn game mechanic of whisper chat, there will be a counter claim of why it cant be overheard.

Frankly as I don't wish to be meta gamed by the dishonest "shadow dancers" dancing in light or any other character and other variations I will do what seems best to me to represent the RP of my character and those with whom I am rping.

The intention was not to fixate on shadowdancers which are buggy as hell and abused as hell, I only mentioned that particular class specifically in reply to Liz assuming that his/her shadow dancer should have some rights to meta game a conversation because the whisper mechanics which make no skill checks allows those within an arbitrary distance from the speaker to mechanically hear even if they ICly could not.

I've highlighted and underlined the bit where I make it clear I am not singling out shadow dancers here however.

Just wanted to make that very important distinction before reams of disgruntled shadow dancers spam the thread.

P.S. as I said for every anecdotal example of why character X should automatically hear what someone whispers there will be an anecdotal example of the precautions someone has ICly taken not to be overheard. To suggest that a character <must> be limited by the whisper mechanical chat radius which will be so abused is ludicrous and gives abuse advantage to those who will be within range but with no legitimate way to ICly hear what is said.

Given that it is a nwn engine limitation I would say that any advantage should be with the "defender" so to speak, i.e. those whispering.

I think being within the whisper radius IS a legitimate way to hear what is said, being that that is the mechanic available to us in the game we are playing. If someone is hiding, you at least DO get a spot check to find them six times a second, along with a listen check once a second. It's not like there is no protection for the whisperer. Using tells for whispering is giving the defender in that situation way too much leeway.

Lascer wrote:

Using tells for whispering is giving the defender in that situation way too much leeway.

And not doing so passes all control to anyone simply within the radius, even if the RP is person A whispering directly into person B's ear which would obviously make it next to impossible to be overheard, certainly incredibly difficult to do so without being noticed in turn.

As I said if there is a toss up between the "defender" and the "attacker" advantage to the defender is often the rule, certainly it is so in many wargaming and rpg rules and I see no reason to alter my stance to that here, whispering is hardly a malignant act, but meta gaming hearing something because of a mechanic that is not based on the IC skills, or situations as to whether a listener should even get a chance to overhear certainly could be.

VitalTouch, stealth is absolutely based on IC skills: Hide and Move Silently. Gathering knowledge IC using IC skills is not metagaming. It's kind of the opposite... whatever that would be. Just gaming, I guess?

If the things that need to be whispered are so groundbreaking, maybe you should not be saying them out in the public. There are so many ways in-game to not be eavesdropped I don't even understand why it is such an issue.

VitalTouch wrote:

Lascer wrote:

Using tells for whispering is giving the defender in that situation way too much leeway.

And not doing so passes all control to anyone simply within the radius, even if the RP is person A whispering directly into person B's ear which would obviously make it next to impossible to be overheard, certainly incredibly difficult to do so without being noticed in turn.

As I said if there is a toss up between the "defender" and the "attacker" advantage to the defender is often the rule, certainly it is so in many wargaming and rpg rules and I see no reason to alter my stance to that here, whispering is hardly a malignant act, but meta gaming hearing something because of a mechanic that is not based on the IC skills, or situations as to whether a listener should even get a chance to overhear certainly could be.

Nah, the whisper radius is utterly IC, as is the skills and sneaking, and you should be using the Whisper channel if you are whispering. That's pretty much the end of the argument, as far as I am concerned, barring a few very very specific examples.

There are detection bonuses based on distance that help to deter sneaks from being able to be so close, as well.

Honestly, and this depends on if I feel like acknowledging the roll, if they roll really well on listen I usually send people tells with snippets of conversation for fun.

All to taste really

Basically, all these:

LunarBloom wrote:

If the things that need to be whispered are so groundbreaking, maybe you should not be saying them out in the public. There are so many ways in-game to not be eavesdropped I don't even understand why it is such an issue.

TormakSaber wrote:

Nah, the whisper radius is utterly IC, as is the skills and sneaking, and you should be using the Whisper channel if you are whispering. That's pretty much the end of the argument, as far as I am concerned, barring a few very very specific examples.

Lascer wrote:

I think being within the whisper radius IS a legitimate way to hear what is said, being that that is the mechanic available to us in the game we are playing. If someone is hiding, you at least DO get a spot check to find them six times a second, along with a listen check once a second. It's not like there is no protection for the whisperer. Using tells for whispering is giving the defender in that situation way too much leeway.

Sneaking is awesome for intell gathering, and if someone told me I was meta gaming HiPS by standing behind someone (who casts a shadow, ie, everyone) I say shenanigans as well!

That all said, there are other mods that have the whisper function, letting you shout across a massive map, or whisper so quietly you practically need to be standing on top of the person to hear them.

All in all, barring sending someone a tell to tell the player what a spot/listen check lets them gleam off of the situation at hand, or a scrying/sending/other PnP divination spell, don't use tells to have IC information sent. At best, that's in incredibly poor taste, and it is metagaming. Denying people an IC chance to legitimately and mechanically overhear a conversation ain't cricket. Play fair, Amia!

There are no engine limitations; all non tell chat is softcoded on Amia.

Listen to me! (Whispering)

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