We've all experienced a plot or event where our PC's just didn't seem to fit in. Not because of anything particular about their character, but because of what they were up against. Maybe they were a lower level than the rest of the group and seemed to die to every other wave of enemy. Or maybe your epic stumbled into an event for lowbies and owned so hard that they broke the animation budget. It happens, and no one is really at fault; your character has every right to be interested in events going on around them and DMs have a set palette of enemies to pull from. It's usually hard to balance something like group ECL and creature strength on the fly. Ability and Skill challenges are even harder.

The question was put forth a while ago if we might benefit from having some events where the DM advertises "this event is intended for these levels." I'm not sure if it ever really got any discussion, but I think it merits some looking into. I don't expect it would be something done with every single event. It might be an occasional thing, maybe like the "Alternative Beginnings" events that have met with a good deal of success.

I think having a few scheduled, targeted(and advertised as targeted) events would be good for a couple of reasons:
-Allows DMs to better tailor their combat and skill challenges
-Allows for lower level characters to gain a greater sense of contribution
-Related to the previous point, alleviates some of the pressure to "hit 30" before participating in the server dialogue
-Removes some of the OoC stigma with PC's facing challenges out of their pay grade. (Why is my lv 30 saving cats from a tree? Why is my lv 5 in hand-to-hand combat with Asmodeus's left testicle?)

So is that something other people would like to see? Is it something our DMs would be willing to accommodate as a somewhat regular practice? Or is feast-or-famine a needed part of our events?

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I do agree, it could be beneficial to know the lvl they are intended. But then again, through events our characters might meet people they would not normally associate with. While DM has a large part to play in this, we players can influence it as well. For example: With my main toon, on purpose I try not to get involved in everything. While she probably could get things done one way or another alone, I try to focus on certain aspects of her. For example divinations, lore, spellcraft and spot. Rest I am happy to leave for others. At times, I try to leave certain questions without being asked by me for my character to find out. It leaves room for others to work in. In other words, we as players should as well try to accommodate others. And I would not say that the lvl of character decides the amount of contribution they can have, that is a silly misconception in general about Amia. My toon was lvl 6 when she developed first spell under DM supervision. Sure, I most likely needed to work far more than ECL 30 would have needed to develop lvl 3 spell.. But the roleplay of developing a spell with other toons was fun for me! Even when the other wizard player fell asleep in middle of our research work, there I was RP alone 30 mins and wondering what happened. It was funny and I bear no hard feelings towards her, still loved that character and player.

I actually have discussed about this thing with several players and many feel they need to be ECL 30 to be involved. While, I am trying to tell them they do not, they can get involved at ecl 3 if they choose to. Heck, it leaves even more room for development RP that makes you choose skills and feats according to the roleplay that takes place. If I found a ecl 3 elven weapon/armor smith, I would hire them at that instant for research work and getting involved. Hint While, ecl 3 can't make those amazing 50+ skill rolls, who cares? If they roll 20 + X (rank) it is same to me. It shows that they made great progress and start to understand what to do. And ecl 3 can't survive the combat against Asmodeous left testicle, they still can provide amazing support roleplay for those in combat. Partly, I do think that people have this need to accomplish AMAZING things instead of developing something rather basic like ecl 3 would, but why? It is a great stepping stone to have developed a small thing that showed you the way to the next challenge. Like dodging Yossarin's ecl 30 zombies in Triumvir with ECL 6 wizard. While, I could not help or do anything to solve the situation, I provided others the RP of protecting me, the weaker person while being all lady-like and scared to death.

My point is, get involved and don't worry about your ECL or skill ranks. You have, really, nothing to lose if you play ecl 3 character who isn't a master of something, instead you have great RP and memories to gain through the learning roleplay and running in events trying to survive. That Triumvir event, is one of the best memories of mine because it was so much fun trying to dodge zombies that could kill my 20 hp wizard on 1 hit. And let me just add, my ecl 6 wizard survived without dying while I saw plenty of ecl 30's falling.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I'd just like to throw in that I already do this for adventures which are designed to be undergone during the leveling experience. This is often just quests folk happen upon at random which they can take a number of ways, and range from Hack and Slash, to Scavenger Hunts, to Puzzles and more. Typically I'll try to steer it with the NPC's lingo-- maybe he's hiring on 5 adventurers to take on a task and can't right afford any more, or that's simply all he needs. Maybe he needs two people to move quickly and think on their feet. I will, before the crew sets out, give a nice OOC notice of the level range!

If I knew this was liked, however, I'd have been doing it more! I know the grind can be a chore, and I'll always jump in to watch people farming loot or grinding and-- if they're not roleplaying already, I'll try to find a spark or otherwise drag their minds back into the setting. I don't know how much has been said about it, but a few members of the Team have something in the works for everyone I am really, really excited for. I think this will be met with universal acclaim and put a bit more classic D&D into your everyday adventures.

My only recommendation if you intend to do this is to try to create a compelling reason why higher levels of certain idealogical dispositions wouldn't involve themselves.

I once had an experience where a DM was running an event in the sewers he had admittedly advertised for lower levels, BUT one of them ICly had run up to him seeking help as something was going sideways. He ran and then I got a bit of a reaming from the DM for it , so I'm going to REEEAAAAAALLLLY recommend if you're running these sorts of things, please be careful with content and similar and keep in mind that higher levels may have a good reason to still choose to try to lend a hand.

For any Senior DM to assure you now, no this wasn't a current standing member of the staff who did this, thankfully.

For sanity, if a DM wants/needs to throw out an OOC "please folks I need this to be for levels 10-15ish" for control and fun's sake, I approve!

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fairdady..

That's understandable. My thought was that it wouldn't be a set in stone thing where the DM is going to chew your head off if you stumbled into it at a higher level. If it happens, it happens, IC is IC. But I think figuring out why a higher level PC wouldn't be involved would be largely up to the player. It kind of goes back to something I had talked about before where everyone and their mother goes running after the DM-possessed dog, Epic Spells on and Dragon summon in tow. One has to really ask himself "is this something my PC would really devote interest to?". An epic cleric of Lathander is going to want destroy the HD 5 Skeleton he sees a lowbie group struggling with. And maybe he will, in a dynamic entry sort of way. "Ah! The legendary hero has saved us in our hour of need!". And then Captain America gives the lowbies a wink, tells them to stay in school, and continues on his own journey to punch Shar in the face. He doesn't have to stick around after the immediate threat has been met and hold their hands all the way to the end goal, hopefully.



Oh, completely, that's one of the benefits of having a character go outside of their normal range. But again, I don't think this would be a constant thing. And while we can say "come on guys, there's stuff for you to do, even if you're low level" that's not exactly the goal everyone has in mind. Like you say for your damsel in distress or wizard(who I'll assume was running around like Jack Sparrow). That fits their character and probably how you wanted to enjoy their story for the moment. But what about the lowbie general? Or the barbarian who just has to be in the thick of things? Sometimes you don't want to wait to be level 30 to be star of the show if only for a moment. And while you may be taking out minions right and left at level 10, in the back of your head you know you can see the epic beside you taking dozens of them out with each swing.

So the issue as I see it isn't so much that there isn't a place for lower level PCs in mixed high-low level events. It's that usually that place is in the background. (When something needs to be done, higher levels simply do it better. And in being the ones to actually do the things, they move the story.) It's only natural for people to want their time in the limelight and a few of these might help players get that.

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I suppose it's true what you say to a point but if I sat there and thought for what reasonably IC time I could spare and thought 'Nope, no justifiable reason why my PC'd leave these folks to it ' ..

I mean, if there were mitigating factors that the other PCs could participate in ... then okay sure. Hell I remember having to ask a second DM to help me run an event on Arileth to help me try to create a credible threat Epic PCs could be dealing with at the same time tied to what I was running, whilst I was running my event more geared for mid range PCs ..

It can work.. just needs specific balancing.

I know some DMs already do this for some of their events; including that the situation is geared for lowbies, or mid levels, or high levels.

Tangential personal account: When I was playing Ahsra and she was about mid-level, Nivo and Gorgometh ran one of their Garagosian pirate raids that hit Wharftown. Ahsra wasn't able to do shit to the spawns. But she was still able to do some of the aftermath clean-up, which a lot of the high level characters and the powerbuilds weren't interested in doing. They wanted to fight. So the lower level characters, the ones who couldn't fight, picked up bodies, helped with triage for the NPCs, and were involved in other aspects of the event. Ahsra couldn't really contribute to the fighting, but that didn't mean there wasn't a place for a weaker character in the scene and RP of it.

That's a good example of how to handle such disparities LetumLux and I am glad to hear it! It'll helpful to inspire when such future situations arise.

I imagine it would be the same reason your PC isn't constantly grinding Crypt of the Burning Dead or laying waste to the ever-present pirates that raid the Chute. There's a sort of bias that comes knowing that an event is "something out of the usual" that drives us to see our characters involved. But in reality, there are so many threats that even the noblest of characters can't constantly be involved with every problem that rears its head. Unless a PC is constantly running laps around the isle, fighting every goblin, orc, pirate, etc, even while you are away from the computer, they've likely come to terms with this. As long as it isn't a world-ending plot of destruction at hand, there really isn't a reason they would have to see the event through to the end, even if they stumble across it. If I stumble across a group on their way to kill the Troll Chieftain[running Skull Crags], my character obviously realizes the Troll Chieftain is indeed something he would stand against, but he sees that a group of apparently capable individuals are already on the case. Same case as if my character stumbles across a small group trying to find the key to this newly discovered mummy's crypt[DM event]. As long as it isn't some world plot of dhoom involved, a character might have just as much interest or lack thereof as any other lower tier threat. In there words of Meek Mill, there's levels to this shit.



That is a good example of how lower level characters can get involved. But again, my concern is that that involvement is limited to picking up the bodies or in general being more of a background and support. In fact, I imagine the fear of being limited to supporting roles until you can stand up to the spawns/challenges is one of the things that drives people to hit max so much. People know if they show up to whatever raid or what have you that there will be a spot for them. But that spot isn't going to be facing down the enemies, usually, and that's what some people simply prefer to do. The only option at that point is to "get gud."

I'm glad to hear that some DMs are already gearing their plots towards certain audiences, but I think it could be advertised a little better. The sad fact is, when you put out a Shout or post in DM Stories, everyone comes running more or less. That leads to the issue of who drives the story again. If a few were advertised for certain levels, then the people who show up can rest assured that they're going to be the ones pulling the story along, not the bored Epics who will either swoop in and solve it instantly or force the DM to turn the dial to 11 and put them into the passenger's seat.

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In the past when I had wandered by some events meant for lowbies a DM kindly stated that for me to not take a overly active combat so that others could because watching a level 30 greater cleave 300, 20hp goblins is no fun for them, and I'm fine with that I just covered the entrance to "prevent the monsters from running past them and escaping"

We all know its a game and everyone wants to have fun, and I have no problem myself working with the DMs but some OOC clues as to help them are kind of needed.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Pretty much my stance.

As long as ECLs are OOC, restrictions on ECLs need to be said OOCly too.

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Well said!

Medics arent epic heroes though. :[ Is not the whole point of extracting high levels to give the lowbies a meangful feel?

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bad man

On another server in a galaxy far far away they used to have a calendar setup. DMs could go onto said calendar and set events, dates, times, level range, number of players, basic event intro and such. Players could than sign up for said event and off they go!

I've missed this, as it would help people be involved, without sitting around waiting for things to happen. The level range would let people know what to expect, it can be flexible depending on the type, if its a raid on the Kobolds, 2-10, if its the investigation of a murder mystery, anyone can come along. Number of players limit i feel is extremely key, nothing spoils an event like a horde. It devolves from an exciting interaction with the DM where the characters can have discussions and develop, into a blur. It is not the fault of the DM, they can't be expected to keep up with 10+ people trying to 'develop' their characters.

Biggest negative i can see, might be that it would not encourage activity outside of events. If people knew when events would happen, and which ones they were signed up for, they might not be inclined to stand around so much, thus less casual RP. *Shrugs*


Not really on topic, nor attempting to discuss the following outside of its value as a funny event.

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House Auvrea'Kan Crafts and Services is now open and prepared to discuss orders.

Without medics, there are no heroes.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

Or so the medics tell themselves...

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Cyn & Velden story ~ life after death
'Now life has killed the dream I dreamed.'

Calendar idea is great, would really appreciate knowing when things are happening. Additionally I would say in the current state if the desire is to buff population on server getting people on the server in the firstplace should be paramount. If they are n the server even if only for an event it gives them the opportunity to meet pcs they may want to stick around for, or log in more frequently for.


Tldr calendar pls

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bad man

There has been talk several times now about adding a calendar. I thought someone was working on that several months ago. I had forgotten about it!

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Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower