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Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80259		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ice [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 4:28 AM ]
Post subject:  Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
This one would go to the IA forum, but this is something that I rather talk about rather than state without a second doubt that it should be changed.

The disarm mechanics are extremely forgiving in Amia, and that is fine in my opinion. There's no grief for mechanical steal, and players are allowed to RP it however they prefer - from simply dropping and rapidly grabbing back the weapon, to losing it entirely for the rest of the combat.

Now, in the other hand we have Monkey Grip. The latest and current widget used for MG is more or less fast to trigger, requiring only two rounds, which are of course OOCed because of their obvious OOC mechanic nature, in most cases. It's an unrelated problem that the chance to equip the weapon and shield is not always given, for whatever reason.
The actual problem is that there's only two uses per rest of the current widgets, which naturally limits the MGers severely forcing them to measure their options.

Now, when we push the two points together in a "now kiss" manner, we find what could be considered an exploit without ruling.
If a MGer gets disarmed, he has to go like "// hold a second - OOC poly" and repeat the procedure. Get disarmed a second time, and mechanically you are prevented from using the Monkey Grip until your next rest.



This may be a curious point to raise, considering there are an incredible number of two MGers active in the entire server, but I will ask:
Not only to prevent the mechanical exploit, but because of the RP that every MGer uses a sort of bracer or locking device to hold their weapons, shouldn't they be immune to disarm?
Or is there in fact any PvP rule that prevents player from disarm-spamming a MGer?
Author:  Murex [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 7:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
My advise is to have a different, smaller weapon as a backup.

How often does a character with MG get disarmed?
Author:  Galenson [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 7:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
One of my characters has a grandfathered monkey grip widget back when it cost 25+ DCs so I imagine the mechanics are slightly different... but in all honesty, it sounds like the disarm feat is doing its job.

As the Monkey Gripping character you're just going to have to carry a back up weapon, or wield the disarmed weapon two handed. Or, you need more discipline.
Author:  Lutra [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 7:55 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
Yeah...you need superior discipline for effective monkey grip anyway. Also, it might be harder the reequip it than a single handed weapon.
Author:  corypx [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 7:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
Galenson wrote:
need more discipline.


I don't lack a discipline
Author:  Ice [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 8:20 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
Murex wrote:
How often does a character with MG get disarmed?


Once a millenia :P?

Lutra wrote:
Yeah...you need superior discipline for effective monkey grip anyway. Also, it might be harder the reequip it than a single handed weapon.


False.
The discipline has as much to do with the monkey grip as it has to do with acquiring other martial abilities like the Dev Crit or Expertise.
Equipping a MG weapon should be relatively difficult because it is common to use stuff as the hooked gauntlets to make the very technique possible to begin with, but disarming a MGer should be as complicated for the same reason.
Author:  serbiris [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 9:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
P&P Locking gauntlets only provide a +10 bonus against being disarmed, well within the scope of gear available IG or requestable. +10 is not equivalent to immunity. Furthermore, the locking mechanism fluff is necessary to wield the weapon in such a way at all. It compensates for an existing difficulty - think of it as negating a penalty. Furthermore - the two-handed weapon wielded in one hand actually already does receive a slight bonus for its size in the disarm check compared to a one-hander.
Author:  MisterLich [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 10:05 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
serbiris wrote:
P&P Locking gauntlets only provide a +10 bonus against being disarmed, well within the scope of gear available IG or requestable. +10 is not equivalent to immunity. Furthermore, the locking mechanism fluff is necessary to wield the weapon in such a way at all. It compensates for an existing difficulty - think of it as negating a penalty. Furthermore - the two-handed weapon wielded in one hand actually already does receive a slight bonus for its size in the disarm check compared to a one-hander.



Which brings us back to


YU RACK DISCIPRIN


No seriously, this sounds like an issue, but a quick fix is to increase your discipline, or your AC, or both. Disarm is a penalty both for the simple attack, and for disarming a larger weapon than normal (though in Ais's case, I realize you're MGing a medium weapon, so if a longsword user disarms you, it's just the regular disarm penalty to their attack roll), so you're getting the better end of the stick insofar as resisting the issue goes.


And if someone uses true strike to disarm you, hey, you're fucked. Say they broke your gauntlet and you can't use your weapon until you've had time to repair it. It seems kind of legit, to me.

Or, another excellent suggestion in here, have a backup weapon.

I find that altering the MG script or making a new rule that people have to read and then remember to follow, are the least useful ways of countering this, personally.
Author:  Murex [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 11:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
MisterLich wrote:
serbiris wrote:
I find that altering the MG script or making a new rule that people have to read and then remember to follow, are the least useful ways of countering this, personally.


Also, it would most likely be last on the list of things that need to be changed, so you would have to wait a few years before this would get fixed.
Author:  MisterLich [ Wed, Jan 14 2015, 19:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Monkey Grip and Disarm - a love story.
Murex wrote:
MisterLich wrote:
serbiris wrote:
I find that altering the MG script or making a new rule that people have to read and then remember to follow, are the least useful ways of countering this, personally.


Also, it would most likely be last on the list of things that need to be changed, so you would have to wait a few years before this would get fixed.


Exactly. There are much larger scale issues or additions to be made, so it would either take time away from those projects for just the two MGers there are (the needs of the many and all that), or it would just be relegated for years and never get done. Plus, I'm not sure there's really a good way to fix this anyway. Making MGers immune to disarm seems rather unfair. Can't I just say that I've got a locked gauntlet on my character, and now people aren't allowed to disarm me, too? Only I've got mine wielded in both hands, so I'm doubly immune to disarm!... Or something.

Disarm is a viable, albeit rarely used, pvp tool, and it just doesn't seem good to make certain people immune to it, rather than have them overcome their difficulty. Maybe a new item that comes with Monkey Grip and can be somehow attained by other players without monkey grip, called a Locked Gauntlet, can be used to add difficulty to disarm checks. Maybe it can be sold in the Abyss or Gauntlet and it can be an equippable Gloves item.

It'd like, add a +10 to their discipline check vs disarm attempts. But, as a tradeoff, equipping and unequipping a weapon takes a full round each, to get the gauntlet set up properly.

Still though, this probably isn't ever going to be high on the list of to-do's, unfortunately. Best solutions are to increase your discipline/AC, and have a backup weapon.
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