AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

As I peruse these forums, it occurs to me that the absolutely wonderful idea behind Alternate Beginnings seems to be stagnating somewhat. By which I mean that there hasn't been one since June, though admittedly that same adventure is still going on, I believe. My main issue with the concept as it has been delivered is that, with a singular exception, all previous Alternate Beginnings threads have needed to be put forth by a DM. Even the one that wasn't had a DM-to-be as its benefactor. Carrying over ideals from topics like Onwards and Upwards, there is a distinct call for 'power to the players'. Why, then, should this rallying cry not touch upon this style of play as well?

Three years ago, Galenson made an attempt to set up a player-run Alternate Beginnings adventure. I have no idea whether or not it was successful, but the idea of riding on his coattails intrigues me. In this case, my ideal is a system in which players may present an Alternate Beginnings here in General Discussion freely, as a means of establishing an interesting background concept and expanding their roleplaying horizons with like-minded players. More importantly, while it would obviously be encouraged, my hope is that DM sponsorship would be unnecessary for the basis of the system. If a concept crops up that is within an interested DM's purview, then they are welcome to involve themselves, but again, the power should rest with the players to form a group without relying on benefits that, frankly, very little of the playerbase have access to when producing new characters anyway.

In short, I see potential in a world where friends new and old can unite themselves by virtue of a common roleplaying bond. There are those who will point out that this is already more than allowed, and on this exact premise, as Galenson proved. But it isn't being used. We have an exemplary method of forming groups and encouraging cooperative roleplay at our fingertips for those who grow tired of what they already have, or who find that they are drawn to a given concept. But we don't use it. This, above all, is what I believe needs to change.

And now, I open the stage to the majority. What are your thoughts on a more widespread use of the Alternate Beginnings system? Do the disadvantages (syncing time schedules, reliable player availability, etc.) outweigh the benefits? Would this tax the DM team even more than it already does, even with a hands-off approach? What Alternate Beginnings would you like to see done and, if the idea exists, what's prevented you from putting the thread forward? If this idea takes off, incidentally, I may like to use this thread as an 'idea archive', a place to put links or suggestions relating to new or ongoing Alternate Beginnings adventures. Thank you for your time, as always, and think away!

Force Silent to return as a DM and to run one of these. I have been part of his Maztica alternative beginings events, and it remains one of my fondest memories on this server. But yes, they are incredible fun!

This seems to be a fairly common way to start a faction, to be honest: recruit buddies OOC to make new characters together. It works sometimes, but more often than not it just results in short-lived alts. It isn't called "alternate beginnings" but it is essentially just that, player-driven.

I find it more successful, in general, to have people create characters they're really inspired to play, and then find ways of bringing them together. Instead of exhorting people to create, say, a bunch of pirate characters or new goblins or an exiled tribe of Tuigan warriors to play together, you're more likely to keep people around if you connect with existing characters and find ways of incorporating them into your RP.

That said, alternate beginnings can offer a nice change of pace, and if that's your thing, go for it. Just saying, it has been done and it isn't a magical formula that always works very well.

Stop making me blush Pony.

IronAngel wrote:

This seems to be a fairly common way to start a faction, to be honest: recruit buddies OOC to make new characters together. It works sometimes, but more often than not it just results in short-lived alts. It isn't called "alternate beginnings" but it is essentially just that, player-driven.

I find it more successful, in general, to have people create characters they're really inspired to play, and then find ways of bringing them together. Instead of exhorting people to create, say, a bunch of pirate characters or new goblins or an exiled tribe of Tuigan warriors to play together, you're more likely to keep people around if you connect with existing characters and find ways of incorporating them into your RP.

That said, alternate beginnings can offer a nice change of pace, and if that's your thing, go for it. Just saying, it has been done and it isn't a magical formula that always works very well.

I agree with your basic premise. I'm torn on the issue of whether peer-sponsored character creation is a 'good' thing, considering we have an entire stickied thread dedicated to the faults of having multiple alts. By the same token, I can only imagine that it is far easier to garner interest from the beginning of a career than trying to recruit those who are already there.

(I'd like to point out my own hypocrisy here, since I'm the same person who wrote "Don't have lower-level members? Get some, for the love of Ao!")

That said, and I mean no offense by this, I would consider a very open biographical field to be a much better process than strengthening confines. As in, the 'restrictions/prerequisites' section is perhaps one item long, if that. The real barrier is circumstance - where are you, how did you end up there, and where are you going? A stellar Alternate Beginnings is going to feel like a campaign within a campaign, or perhaps a campaign within a very fleshed-out setting. The real difference, in the case of a player-driven story, is that the DM is either not present or on the sidelines, allowing the players to set their goals and personas as a team.

This shouldn't exclude a thematic basis, though. In fact, I should think that providing some sort of unifying theme would make it easier to make a coherent story. I don't envy the party that contains incredibly exclusionary characters as a general rule, though obviously anything can work if the roleplaying is there.

I suppose I could have shortened this post by simply noting that extremes in either approach should be balanced, couldn't I?

I'd be willing to write up an Alternate Beginnings premise for a group of Amaunatorans. With Cordor being such a mess right now, it could be an interesting place for such a religious group of lawbringers and darkness-smiters.

From a DM point of view. I tried this twice. Always started out great and then people disappeared either playing alts or not playing it all anymore with just 1 or non left in the end.

From what I can tell, it was almsot the same with most other alternate beginnings so far, from what I have seen both player and DM side.

This has made me somewhat reluctant to use them again.

I tried to do this on two separate occasions with the Mulans as a player ran. The first time we picked up 3 or 4 people and they left shortly after the second time 2 or 3 and they stayed a little while longer.

I've been in an alternate beginnings campaign before, was fun, but its too difficult to get x many strangers together all the time on the same night. It just doesn't happen.

I tried to run one and it went very well starting off. Can't speak for the players but I had a lot of fun. It started to break down when schedules began to change, my own and those of the players. It wasn't even a matter of "commitment" to a time slot for the players or anything, because we all seemed at least a little bit flexible. But even that flexibility wasn't working. I attempted to change the model to one that was less single meeting oriented to more individual in nature, but that didn't allow for the story to advance like it needed to. And then there was a great clamor for me to be more involved in the main storyline rather than the alternate beginnings and being only one person I could not do the balancing act.

When that broke up I resolved that if I ever returned to the idea of an Alternate Beginnings I would try to construct the story in such a way that it would fit better into our persistent world environment and require less oversight, but then it would almost be indistinguishable from the norm. So what I decided instead was that the best I could do in an Alt Begs storyline would be to focus very strictly on it to the exclusion of a lot else, and with a finite ending in terms of time or level (ideally, time). That's just me, though. Individual groupings of players and DMs may have an entirely different dynamic.

I had always wondered if Alternate Beginnings: Evil Overlords could not be an interesting idea. X evil faction, be it Banites, Thay, Orcs, whatever, send a group to Amia to make trouble, the players play that group. The goal? With a DM Overlord at your side you can work to further some evil plot, like sinking Cordor! Or something. How is it different from a normal evil group?

Well, let me look at the idea here.. The idea is that a group of players with DM oversight can make player(ish) driven conflict and story. It lets the group choose the tactics and means, where the DM Overlord likely set for an objective, depending on the group it could be big and vague, or small and precise. How this group will really differ from a normal group of do-badders is they enter into the group knowing they are likely going to lose, they are there to add better AI to the bad guy, and in the end, its likely they will die, permanently.

That might sound harsh.. but one of the issues with bad groups i think is its hard to get things done, the DM Overlord will be the cure to that, still it will be hard yes, but if they use sound tactics and what not, they might pull something epic off! But at the same time, the issue for Goodly types defending their stuff is when you have to kill that evil group.. again.. and again.. and again.

My view may be a bit biased since I'm in the boat of players that love being loyal to one character at a time. Generally I have always felt that Alternate Beginnings are a bad idea. I have always felt sorry for the DM's that make tons of effort to get these things going only to find that players eventually stop logging in.

With that said, there have been successful ones in the past where players find characters that they like and stick to. (I'm looking at you, Bob, Selly and Ael). But most of the time it just seems to be a "quickie" where the spark sort of just dies off.

If these players have a lot of fun with them for as long as they last, and that's it, then it's nothing to snub. Even if it's a one-off story that ends because those characters don't log in anymore afterward, it was still worth it because it was enjoyable. A story is a story and fun is fun, regardless how long it lasts!

Besides, these things can be good for feeding altitis afflictions which in turn lead players to sticking to their one character after they get the altitis out of their system. And that's nothin' to shake a stick at!

Part of me has thought of running one of these for a 'rebuilding Cordor' run... all the PCs would be Cordor citizens and would be trying to shape up how their new Cordor would come out now that the war is over...

Though I do admit I like how things are going with the place already... hrm...

I think that'd be a good one actually, Kobra!

About Alternative Beginnings from my part. I joined the Evermeet Houses and when I was requesting possibility to join I had already decided this character would be my main. Therefore I made the effort to create a character whos initial concept I liked and if the Dm would see it fit for the plot, I would play it to her bitter end. It was no accident that I enjoyed my character, because I made it the character I enjoy.

I do consider myself lucky, however, my character happened to stumble into other plots that kept my interest going and developed her as a character. As well met great number of players on the way to this date.

I do as well see that it was such a shame that other players dropped out. And at least in my House I did try, in the start, to keep them coming back by creating objectives we could reach for together. Ended up having the burden of doing everything myself. I do think that people who join these kind of plots should consider twice before doing it. If your not sure of it, then dont join. Because there are other players who have taken effort to create their characters and to have this going, there are other players who could have joined instead of you. And foremost by leaving after second time, you simply disrespect the effort the Dm put into it to cater something for us, the players.

Never did I feel this failed due to Dm running it, but due to people giving up instantly if the Dm was not around for the meetings.

Whilst not Cordor, I was passing through Guldorand today and saw the Rangers barracks there was still under construction. Could be part of Alternative beggining surrounding the revival of Guldorand

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

From a DM point of view. I tried this twice. Always started out great and then people disappeared either playing alts or not playing it all anymore with just 1 or non left in the end.

From what I can tell, it was almsot the same with most other alternate beginnings so far, from what I have seen both player and DM side.

This has made me somewhat reluctant to use them again.

Though my character was not a part of your story directly, we did not forget the RP that was done and we are eager to pick it up anytime you are available. Auril is pretty cool and at least two regular Tarkuul characters are visiting her shrine to pay homage.

Since people went MIA I mainly made this "whenever someone cares, nudge me".

I'll gladly run stuff for people with this anytime, just give me a nudge whoever is interested and we shedule a time. I will be a bit busy over the holidays (as most people I'd wager) but after that I am all good to go.

I'll point out that Pony is hosting a player-run Alternate Beginnings with the drow right now.
It bread life into the whole of Nec'perya again and gave me a character that I've enjoyed a hell of a lot. We've so far not stopped progressing, also taking on new people still... *BLATENT HINT TO YOU ALL!*

Player Prompts: Alternate Beginnings

Who is online