So, when you enter PvP via role playing and then die... you know that thing some of you do where you go to a different transition to rest and then buff and then return to the PvP with no role play of your death involved...

I'm pretty sure this is against the rules. It breaks the rule regarding abuse of bug mechanics, it breaks PvP rules regarding consequences and role playing before you enter pvp, and I'm absolutely certain it's terrible behavior to exhibit in a community.

I'll quote the rules regarding pvp and bug exploitation here for the sake of doing so, but you can bet that if I ever see anyone doing these things, I will report it. Here's a few reminders on Amia's rules regarding PvP that I think we need to remember.

Excerpts from the PvP rules:







Honestly, it is this sort of behavior that has been making Amia seem less and less appealing to me personally as of late. If you cannot win a confrontation without cheating: please do not cheat in order to win that confrontation. It cheapens the scenario and forces us to lose our already dwindling community of players.

This is the only thing I have to say on the subject, I will not be reading or responding to this thread from here on out.

EDIT: Seems we have no listed bug exploitation rules in the rules section of the forum. Can we please get these so as to avoid confusion? It is a banable offense that is not listed on the forums save for vague DM postings in improving Amia.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Escaping through transition and returning to fight is not an exploit of transitions. Exploiting transitions is when you hop inside, hop back outside, and keep repeating. So that you can't be targeted and that you can hit people freely if you have a faster computer. That's the exploit we're referencing.

Running away through a transition, buffing, and returning is not a breach of rules. As long as the same scene is still occurring.

I'll explain further, to clear up any concerns.

Let's say I'm a wizard with a fighter friend. Bad guy engages us, and I flee and end up leaving a transition. The scene is still continuing. The fight is still going on with my friend and my enemy, I am simply enchanting far away from the scene. I have every intent of returning to help my friend. So I enter the scene again, now fully buffed, and see the bad guy kill my fighter friend. So I then attack and kill him.

I am within the rules. I did not escape the -scene-, I escaped his sight. I escaped the area. The chase, the fighting, the scene was still continuing. Some scenes can stretch over multiple areas. I can even rest in another transition too, as long as the scene itself is still continuing.
~~~

However! It would be abuse if I left through the transition, buffed, then returned to see the bad guy kill my friend. I attack him with spells, he runs at me, then I run away through the transition that I just returned from 2 seconds ago. Or keep hopping back and forth, even.

Escaping the scene is not the same thing as escaping an area. Again, some scenes can take up multiple areas. However, if he killed my friend, using my previous example, and instead of returning to fight, I fled and hid for half an hour, well away from all of the Rp that was happening, I cannot simply return fully buffed and immediately re-engage Rp without Rp or providing an out.

You can rest at any point in conflict (Unless in some DM plots). Sometimes, it's just very tactically unsound to do so (Example, you're right next to an enemy). It can also be considered a hostile action, too, so keep that in mind.

But you can easily be killed outside a transition where fighting is still taking place, have someone raise you, then you yourself rest, buff, and return to the same fight that was still going on. If the same fighting is still going on, that's the very same scene. That's within the rules.

While it's not exploiting transitions it's still against the rules? what if the other part thought you were fleeing and then you just return fully buffed and kicked their ass, when they expected that you left and didn't prepare for a fight?

imo unless the fight is still going on, it should be counted as a new scene when you return and you should at least give him the opportunity to avoid PvP by for instance let you take care of your friend and he leaves. The PvP situation everyone agreed to enter was one where everyone was unbuffed, but now it's suddenly 1 versus 1 where 1 is buffed and the other is not. It's a completely different fight now.

I would see it as you fleeing the scene in the first place, then returning to a scene where the friend you left is now dead. It's a new scenario imo.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

No, it's not still against the rules to escape the area, buff, and return to a fight. You're not escaping the scene, you're just putting ground between you and your attacker. There's no difference than say, if you hide behind a wall, move away, buff, and return. As long as the fighting (Or searching, as long as it's simply searching the immediate area(s) and not a new scene itself) is continuing, the scene is still continuing.

If you run away, buff, and return 30 minutes later, it is a different scene, unless the fighting is continuing. But if you just escape someone's sight, buff, and -immediately- return, whether it's in a transition, hiding, invisibility, haven, etc, you're within the rules. It's still the same scene.

Also, to note, if there is any fighting at all, you don't need to Rp an out or Rp at all to come to the aid of your friends. For example, if you walk into a scene where two bad guys are beating up your friend, you can immediately enter the fight yourself.

The same applies to this, in some ways too. If you died outside a transition, were raised, rested, buffed, and returned to an area to see your friends actively being killed (Not already killed, but actively engaging in PvP), you can enter it again without any Rp or need to give outs.

If you die outside of a transition, are raised by someone, and you rest, buff, and return to the same area to find all of your allies dead, and the victors standing over the bodies like.. tying them up or something (Or really, Rping with them in any), it is indeed a new scene, however. The fighting ended, and because of that, the PvP scene was over.

New Rp and outs will have to be given.

There are admittedly a lot of strange complications, and I sympathize with this. Lots of scenarios that make it okay, and some that make it not. Determining whether or not it's the same scene can be tough, but it's best to measure it by whether or not the fighting is still continuing. Or if they're still searching for people. If they are no longer fighting and no longer searching for people, the scene is over.

Has that changed then? because it used to be that If you ran away using a transition point and no one followed you it counted as you escaping the scene and you could not return, but if you were chased you could keep running or turn and fight them.

I believe that was often the ruling of transition = attempt at escaping, not followed = clearly escaping, that way to avoid people even having the option to rest so no one could claim they rested and came back (AKA avoid drama).

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Hackums, I'm going to contradict what I just said and respond to you because I want genuine clarafication from a DM on this topic. Here's a quote from my qoute.





Now I'll ask you this:

If you get raised, run off and rest to get new spells (which I personally think should qualify is an abuse of death mechanics but I'm not a DM) and return with new buffs and a full set of offensive and defensive spells... does that not count as escaping a scene and returning with a fresh selection of spells and buffs? The other party does not have the luxury of doing so and abusing the transitions ability to remove hostile targets from the area to prevent resting.

Then I ask you this as well,

Is amia an arena server or a role playing server? Running away, resting and buffing again for a new set of spells is behavior I'm fine with on an arena PVP server. But I'm here to role play. When we PvP, if it happens, I'd rather not see blatant abuse of mechanics that are in place just because the party involved lost a fight and the other party was polite enough to give them an OOC raise. It's poor behavior, and it's really discouraging.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

I'd say that if someone rests, then it's a new scene then. Resting, IC, takes 8 hours, or 4 hours for trancing elves, so you really can't rest for a minute, then come back full speed if a fight has already broken out. Before a fight, sure. But during one? I wouldn't allow it.

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I play:

I disagree and believe that is flawed logic, Kobra. If resting takes 4-8 hours then by that logic it's assumed no one moved for that entire time. I know, I know, it only takes a minute to rest but we can't just say 'oh technically it's been 8 hours' because then technically the other people should be given a chance to leave first because, again, 4-8 hours passed. Let's also not forget the fact that the people you are returning to attack likely haven't rested so you are, actually, exploiting things. And also metagaming because you know OOC that they are still there when, if it had been several hours, you would not IC know that.

If you die in PvP and pretend it didn't happen, it's been said that DMs frown on that. So how is it different to die, get raised (or respawn), run off, rest, buff, and come back to attack? That's totally counter-intuitive to the spirit of the rules. I believe that is precisely what bobof is referring to: people respawning/getting raised, resting, buffing, and continuing RP.

Even if, by some major lapse of judgement on the part of the Team, it's deemed allowable to die, come back to life, provide no RP, then rest/buff and attack again it is still appalling for someone to do that. There's absolutely no reason to say it's appropriate to loose in PvP, rest and rebuuf, then claim it's a brand new instance of PvP. That's incredibly cheesy.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Again with leaving the zone and coming back they had a chance to rest, they may not have but its always a question on peoples minds (hence drama of he said she said), so its why in the past at least, most DMs ruled that leaving the zone and not being followed meant you chose to flee the scene and the others let you... so end of you taking part in that PVP.

Because on top of it all they have no reason to use a transition point to leave the zone other to exploit the fact of the loading screen because it breaks up the chase for them, I know I load very fast some times and other load so slow that I can run half way across the zone in the time for them to load in if not more even if we were right behind eachother....
I see people use a transition point being chased then as soon as they load click to go right back again so when the person following them finally loads they lost them.... did they kept running on the map to a different part...did they click to go right back again...you have no idea even if IC you were right behind them and would have seen.


So in sort... I say the old rule should still stands for a ton of reasons, you leave a zone and are not followed you cant take part in it anymore.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

The rules as explained by hackums make perfect sense. The problem is not with the ruling, but with how easy it is to spam raise, and how fast it is to rest. Hiding to regroup and reorient yourself while someone covers your ass makes perfect sense, but the speed and extent to which you recover are a little bit over the top.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Slipping out of a battle to catch your breath or find reinforcements shouldn't be considered "leaving scene". It's a tactical decision to win, and the RP is entirely rooted in the original incidence. There are mechanics in place to prevent cheese. Raise timers, portals don't work with hostiles nearby, rest timers. Far as I'm concerned, if it's within the scripted limitations, it's intended to be legit.

No.... transition points break up the PVP and is not seamless if they were just running away in the same zone that's fine, but people who use transition points often use it for the advantage of the fact of the load times and that should not be encouraged.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I was not originally going to post here, however I will say I'm with corypx, if you leave the area, you shouldn't be allowed to continue the fight. Otherwise that's far too abuse able, old players here remember how PvP was when you could immediately raise dead? Yeah, no, thanks. Especially if you leave the area, rest, rebuff, go back to where the PvP was happening and see that it ended, and reengage the 'bad guy' or 'good guy'(depends on which 'team' you're on, same goes) without RP of any sort.

I also agree completely with Kobra on this, if you exhaust everything you've got, you can't just 'oh, gimme five seconds to catch my breath, I'll magically have all my spells, HP, stamina(what have you) back'.
Especially if you just died.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm

"Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature."

You're supposed to be weak. Amia isn't D&D, so loss of level and con won't be enforced, but please, as a player asking, don't just shrug off death if it was from a raise dead scroll.. Even if you were brought back by Resurrection, or True Resurrection, your body is still going to be empty, you'd be starving.

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Did somebody say..

No, that's not a breach of rules-- as long as the fighting or searching for people is still continuing. Because if that's the case, the scene is still continuing. It doesn't really matter where or how you get your buffs, or if you've been raised or not. That literally plays no factor into this whatsoever. This has been the DM stance for as long as I've been here.

Your example has a number of questions in it, and they are in fact separate issues. I'll address them each:
- Transitions
- Raising, rebuffing, returning
- Escaping a scene
- Other party's "luxury"


1.) Transitions
Reference the above posts I made regarding transitions and scenes. There is no abuse of mechanics if you're fleeing an area. You mention that someone can just flee, thus escaping hostiles, and then rest outside-- well the enemies can always follow them and kill them right outside, too. And resting makes you incredibly vulnerable. If you pop into a transition and rest right next to it, and someone pops out to get you, if you ran back into the transition to escape him then it would be transition abuse. As long as you're not hopping back and forth to evade people on both sides of the transitions, you're fine. If you're escaping in one direction, using a transition is totally justifiable. If you return from that escaped direction to the original fight, after having buffed from safety, that is also totally justifiable. If you escape from one direction, then escape back the direction you came when others come through the transition, only then is it transition abuse.

Also, if you escape into an area that has NPC guards in the middle of a PvP situation (Example, running into Kampos). It's fine if you escape and stay there. But if you escape, buff in the safety of the NPC's, and then return to the fray, that's a different kind of abuse that combines NPC metagaming and transition abuse.

2.) Raising, Rebuffing, Returning
This is actually a separate issue to transitions altogether. Whether or not someone is in a different area, it has no impact on this. You could be in the same area, get raised, not rest or rest, decide to buff with potions, and return to the fight as long as the fight is continuing. You could also be in a different area and do the exact same. It doesn't matter where you are, where you were killed, one scene of PvP can stretch over multiple areas.

Think about a situation where we're not doing it across different areas. Let's say all of this is happening only in the Silent Bay. The fighting has gone on for so long, that the 5 minute cooldown counter ends and your allies can raise you. They do raise you, you can now enter the fight. How buffed you are doesn't have any impact. If you decide to go in without buffs, if you decide to use potions, or scrolls, or spells you have leftover-- it all doesn't matter. Hell, if the area's big enough, you might even be able to rest in it because the enemies are farther away. As long as the fight is continuing, you can leap up and get back into the fray if you've been raised.

It doesn't matter if you're in a different area for any of this. As long as the fight is continuing, you can rebuff however you are able. If you can rest, rest. If you can use spells, or potions, or scrolls, or items, feel free to rebuff. But you can only re-enter the fight (Or really a fight) if the scene (Which we have described as the continued fighting or searching) is continuing.

Resting has no impact on the continuance of the scene. Some PvP is started because someone rested right at the beginning of a hostile situation. You can rest whenever you're able, and it doesn't suddenly end the PvP scene. It never has, and never will. Similarly, no matter how large the scene is, you can be raised and re-enter the fight. If the fight is continuing.

As for OOC raises, only give them at the end of the combat. And once combat is completely over, if you enter the scene, and try to 'raise' someone who was OOCly raised and then immediately enter PvP, you're in the wrong. The scene was over, you need to give new outs.

3.) Escaping a Scene
I've already explained that part in the above posts, how a scene can in fact stretch over multiple areas. How just escaping sight by exiting a transition isn't escaping the scene. Think about if you were chasing someone, and they exited-- the scene would then have to be over, and you'd have to give them outs again? What? That makes no sense. So if someone has the time to run out of sight, no matter if it's in one large area, or through a transition, they can happily re-enter the fight if it's buffed. Similarly, rogues can escape, lay traps, etc, etc. Just because there's no active sword-swinging because people can't see each other doesn't mean the fight has concluded. It might take a few minutes of buffing or preparing in hiding, but until people have clearly escaped the scene, not eyesight, the situation is continuing. So if my character hides in plain sight, then retreats to make a trap field, and shoots you from a distance after a minute or two-- I'm still in the right, because I had been actively 'buffing' for the fight, even if you couldn't see it.

4.) Other party's "luxury"
This doesn't really make much sense, tbh. If you're saying that you have the luxury of resting because you're in the adjacent area, when your enemies don't... your enemies could also just move into your area? They could also kill you while you're resting. If you're only a few guys fighting a very long battle, chances are that people are going to be helped to their feet so they can keep fighting. If a few have died in another area, it might be good to check on them. It's no one's "luxury." If they want to stop you from being raised and buffing again, they either needed to kill you faster or take more careful precautions over where the bodies went.





That's an entirely subjective and ridiculous question that I'm not even going to answer it. You know the answer. Just because you disagree with how it's handled, or don't understand it, doesn't mean that "We're suddenly an arena server, guys." These same rules have been in place this entire time. Nothing has changed in the PvP rules for years. Amia is not an arena server. I hope that in my explanation, you've come to understand why we ruled on it as we have, and that it's not in fact an issue.

The resting mechanics is WYSIWYG. NinjaClarinet has the right of it. We've put up defenses against cheesy stuff like raise timers, portal wands, resting timers.

Honestly... how ridiculous would it become, if "Oh, I exited a transition, now you can't hit me without giving me an out?" No. This rule in place makes far more sense than the alternative.




That's an opinion.


That's also an opinion. It's a standard we've never enforced.


That, and even Kobra's words, were an opinion. What I am representing here are the actual matter-of-fact rulings on the matter.

It's actually even a hypocritical opinion, and would be for even myself if I said it! How many times have you died, been raised with a scroll, rested, buffed, and continued fighting? Hunting, anyone? Everyone that's ever grinded in their life? And I have matter-of-factly seen every person who has said, "Don't hop back up from a raise scroll in PvP" actually do the exact same thing themselves. Sorry if I'm unconvinced.

This, thanks. My point and my worries was how PvP used to be.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

This would be a breach of rules, because you've returned to see that the fighting has ended and you re-engaged anyway. When the fight has ended, the scene was over. You need to re-initiate properly.

I do not appreciate being called a hypocrite, Hackums, I actually responsibly handle being raised if I am in an IC hunting party, especially during PvP, or DM events. I have stated my stance, yes, largely it is an opinion, however the fact you're supposed to be weak after dying, is not. I linked the D&D Raise Dead, as you can see. Amia is vastly different from actual lore, how the DM team has handled these situations, obviously, has varied a lot depending on who the DM team consists of. I am stepping out of this topic, I am uninterested in striking a further argument or flame war.

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Did somebody say..

How is that a opinion? its a fact.... it warps them to a different zone so that causes a loading screen, it causes a break up in the combat unlike if they were running around in the same zone. The loading screen ruins the flow of the combat in ways running around the zone does not.

So maybe how big one might view the loading screen effects the flow of combat may be a opinion, but not that fact that it does.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I would be a hypocrite if I made that same stance. So would everybody who has ever been raised, sucked down a heal potion, and then swung a blade. I've literally seen (And been playing beside you when) you do these things. That's why I can confidently say it, and -not- I'm saying it to be like, "This guy's a bad player," because I totally don't believe that. Hell, I was the guy that raised you when it happened, mate and was both a PvP and DM event. I'm not saying it to shame you, or say you're a rulebreaker, because my point is that it is within the rules and is acceptable.

What I'm trying to say, is that the expectation for others to treat death with a higher measure of respect is in fact a hypocritical statement that we should avoid making.

Ah, Cory, you're right. That's what it technically does, yes. But what I was saying was the opinion, was that the fact you cited is necessary for call it a break of scene or enough to warrant PvP to stop.

So it's not that transitions being awkward is an opinion, because they definitely are. It's that the transitions being non-seamless should justify no PvP continuing beyond them, that is in fact an opinion.

And I only say it, because I want players to be clear on what is DM ruling and what is player opinion of what the rules should be.

But see that's the thing.... that's how the rule used to be enforced so clearly the DMs have changed it since then.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I couldn't say. The way I've described it is how every single case of PvP transition abuse has been handled since I've been a DM.

So if the fighting continues while someone dies, rests, rebuffs, and re-enters the fight and kills everyone, that's okay. But if the fighting ends while someone dies, rests, rebuffs, and re-enters the scene and kills everyone in the same amount of time, that's not okay? That sounds kinda like a rule needs to be clarified somewhere....

It's been changed then, and the rules should be updated to reflect such if that is the case. I'd like to hear more DM thoughts on the matter though, it seems like there are some differing viewpoints.

In the old days, if you left an area where pvp occurred, and rested + rebuffed ect, it was considered escaping the scene and returning to it, which requires new RP and new outs, ect, as a new scene.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

Here's why that's not the case, Alkor:

1. There's no rule against coming back to life in the middle of combat (In one consistent scene), and rebuffing, and re-entering the fight. There is no rule against rebuffing at all, even.

2. There is no rule against resting in a hostile. It is counted as a hostile action, it is included in our rules. Yes, you can't rest is there is an enemy in the immediate area. But there are some areas big enough to distance yourself appropriately.

3. There is no rule against leaving an area through a transition and then having to discontinue the fight.

Combining those three thoughts, it becomes totally legal (So long as the scene is still continuing), for a person to exit a transition, rest, rebuff, and return to fighting.

Awesome. So it's perfectly fine for me in the middle of RP I don't like to commit suicide, respawn and chill wherever I wanna chill, then. i.e.: guards look like they are gonna arrest me? I commit suicide, come back to life, enter the city again, stick my tongue out at the guards, they say "Hey, there's that guy again, arrest him!" commit suicide again, come back to life, stick my tongue out at the guards... etc... um... that doesn't sound like good RP at all.

No it used to just be if you left the zone at all and were not followed did not matter if you rested or not, you escaped and could not come back..... keep in mind the old days had a lot of PVP problems so the rules were more geared to prevent as much PVP drama as they could as they could and its the "is the glass half full, or half empty" where it was up to the DM to say how they wanted to rule.

Back then they just tended to rule in that way because the server was packed and loading screens sometimes took players so long the effects on PVP were crazy, on top of people saying "oh they rested" or "Oh they were using trans points to split up our group and get us in smaller numbers" and they very well could have been using load screens to split up numbers to get the upper hand... or people using trans points to set up ambushes where groups were waiting right on the transition point at the other side to gank you because you cant see into the next zone your running into...even if IC you would not walk right up to 3people in melee range and let them start stabbing you.

So DMs at the time to make it simple more of less just said No... you leave the zone and they don't follow you view it as over and don't come back. But its less crazy now and PVP is not happening 100 times a reset so where the wording of the rule might be same as it always has been, how the current DM team enforces it has (and that's fine, just used to the old school)


to Mr. Hackums if coming back to life in PVP is ok, could I spam respawns and keep rejoining the same fight them... seems fully ok by the rules you listed?

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

... What?

If I'm in PVP with a group, can I hit the respawn button and go right back to them and start fighting again?

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

^

Oh, actually, (Moving on from the ridiculous example question that Joe gave me), I think this change kind of came about when we implemented the Respawn timers. I'm almost positive it did. I also remember people saying, "Hey, he rested!" And I remember that stopping after we added the respawn timer, because it used to be a big deal, because everyone could just throw raise dead scrolls and keep fighting, so the fight basically ended when someone rested.

Then, without crazy fast respawns, the fights ended naturally, and I think people just tended to look at the rules a little differently. Because it doesn't explicitly say that if you leave a transition, you can't go back. It just says "leaving the scene." So methods of enforcement must have gradually changed over time.

I do also notice how it's most of the older players who cry foul when this happens too, but the newer players don't. So there had to have been a change somewhere.

Oh. No. The respawn button is an OOC mechanic, strictly, and is thus prohibited for use in Rp or PvP. When I was saying, "There's no rule against being brought back to life..." I meant by PC raise dead scrolls, or spells.

Yeah and its 100% understandable given the wording of the rule never changed so one could only assume the rule is as it has always been because the DMs never said other wise, and because the rules that prevent people posting "dirty laundry" on the forms mean we don't get to see a DM discussion on rules that might have changed.

So for people like me who have not had to interact with a DM about such rules in years... long before say you were a DM and now in charge of interpreting and enforcing the rules one might see why we are on different pages. on top of the fact even the current DMs have different views


Yet you say


So two DMs.... two different views/rulings who do we go with? and then we need to wait for all the other staff to weigh in so even more different views on different aspects of the rules.... so I don't view it as "Crying foul" as much as DMs not being on the same page and then not keeping the old players up to date with changes they made.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

That's been fine, same area, hostiles have the chance to re-down the toon, or prevent IC raise. (Does not include the OOC-respawn button)



If you rest in the same area, same scene (like after a perceived win perhaps, or right before a potential fight) remaining potential hostiles can react to it and prevent it, so it's been fine in the past. (from my experience) Mechanically it doesn't work if you have hostiles nearby that are alive however.
(DM Events operate at DM discretion when it comes to resting/rebuffing rules, I'm addressing the everyday pvp rules more-so here)



This third point, when combined with resting in the other area, has been ruled by DM's IG to the contrary, imho due to perception of this rule:



I seem to have a similar view as several older players (Cory's went a step further), as well as personally (in the past) experiencing a DM friendly reminder after leaving an area and resting that it would be a new scene -if- we decided to re-engage. (It was only one area transition away from the initial combat, we decided not to continue the pvp further, after resting, with this in mind and other IC factors).

At this point the core of it is defining what is meant, by 'same scene' or 'escaping scene'.

and

When is it okay to rest (+re-buff)[to conceivably continue further pvp], and how does it relate to across multiple areas?

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

I'd be willing to review that, and come to a full DM decision on the matter.

However! Let's say that it would be against the rules to do that, if you came back in and saw that your friends were actively fighting someone, it's legal to enter the fray without Rp. Oddly enough, that situation seems to have been removed from the technicalities (When I specifically remember it being there).

So even if it was ruled as illegal PvP to exit, rest, etc because it started a new scene, if you walk in and people are killing your friends, you can enter the combat anyways. So it's kind of strange.

Honestly, I don't see any difference in nature between resting and buffing, and any difference between hiding inside an area or in the area next over. For some characters, resting is important, for others its not. Why should that then be the qualifier for the end of the scene? And some areas are huge, some are not. There are a lot of situational factors that make this kind of older understanding seem like more trouble than its worth.

I would be more comfortable making a rule stating that if you died in PvP, that you are dead until the PvP has concluded.


And that seems like it would be effective, right? But then you have to question, "What happens if someone tries to rescue me, and I don't fight back, but try to escape?" Or, "What about Clerics or people who can legitimately raise someone from the dead, why are they suddenly not being allowed to?"

+ throw in the very possible situation of 'seeing' your IC friend's corpses on the ground, but no active pvp is taking place (they got defeated). RP requirement?

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

PvP rules are really, really complex. Even if I made such a simple ruling as the above example, it has a whole field of complexities. I hope people can at least understand that. We work hard to keep a generally positive Rp/PvP environment, here, but some situations have ridiculously extensive problems, two conflicting rules.

This really isn't easy stuff.

And why I cited the PvP rules alongside the muling/twinking ones as rules sets that give me indigestion.

As much as I'm a booster for clerics, I still have to ask, why is a UMD'd Raise Dead scroll somehow not "legitimate"? It's a thing that exists IC, with IC provenance and effects. We'd be better off without them, but so long as they exist IC, then they're legit IC. If a cleric can wonder IC why she's not allowed to cast from her deity, a fighter with UMD can certainly wonder IC why she's not allowed to fire her scroll. Or am I not properly understanding the distinction you were trying to make?

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

Again it seems like we need a lot more of the DMs to add impute so the staff and sort out all their views and come to a solid ruling instead of what ever DM you get at the time or their mood.

As for your statement Because IC resting does not take you 10sec and its the downside of picking classes who must rest but are walking nukes?

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

But the in-game resting mechanic is WYSIWYG, it is not an actual representation of 8 hours of resting. We can't afford to set that precedent either. The resting mechanic has never been made to represent 8 hours of resting in other circumstances.

All in all, it seems like a DM-team discussion needs to be had on the matter(likely in the DM forums), and once all the DM's have weighed in, something is then decided on that seems like the best option. -and then the players are informed of something consistent to go by.

I can empathize with player's who feel like rules are being enforced in some cases, but not in others, because in some cases they aren't really written as such and the impression of mood-based rules comes into play.

Example:

DM A: Resting in another area and returning to combat is ok, -it looks like the same scene to me.

DM B: Resting in another area and returning to combat is not okay, -it looks like you escaped the scene to me, and then returned to it with no rp.

Player C: "what???"



p.s. I don't mind having this topic open for more player input however

Edited: Nice, civilized, input.
*"Why can't we be friends plays in the background"*

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

Says a single DM on the team...with no posted rule under the rules page to back that statement up... yet as I also pointed out already in the thread we have a different DM in the who's post would disagree with you.
But also some DMs have made that the claim in the past you cant rest in some events they ran because it would take to long, as to prevent people from regaining all their spells, as if IC it did take 10secs to sleep DMs would have a hard time explaining why you don't have 10seconds to do so.



We fluff off stuff like resting IC when it has no negative impact on anyone to speed up the story so to speak, much like when you die hunting, respawn and then go right back....it hurts no one unlike clicking the respawn option and returning to PVP (that you claimed would be in breach of the rules even if the rules don't state anywhere it would be, or that respawning is even OOC.) so things have different rules in different cases, PVP resting is, hence why it fell under a different view.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

There's something called Case Precedent. It means that a rule doesn't have to be explicitly stated, but rather, reinforced by previous DM decision. So when I'm saying that resting, when not under the supervision of the DM's, has been treated as WYSIWYG, I'm not citing our written rules, I'm citing previous cases in which we have dealt with this problem. These previous cases then set a precedent for all future cases.

If we had to write every single ruling we ever decided on, we'd have a 40 page rule section.

You're right, though, that there appears to be some discrepancy between members of the staff.