AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

This is going to be short and precise, then hopefully someone will lock it as this isn't a discussion as this is a message to the staff.

Stop, caring what 1 or 2 idiots think.

Reread that a few times.

Everybody is different to the point you will -never- please them all and until you begin to see a general consensus that a majority agrees so-and-so is awful or the way staff handles X or Y is bad, responding to one whiny guy's rant is giving them too much undo power that isn't merited.

My interactions with various members of staff have been more than satisfactory when I've been lucky enough to have them. Each of you had different styles and none I've ever seen are so egregious to be worth avoiding in the future. Short of turning your DMing into the creation of a player snuff film, a player would be one ungrateful jerk to whine about the attention received from a DM.

Unless you intend to keep detailed notes on what types of interaction each player states they like and ask permission to interact with them beforehand (all of which is silly and unreasonable), just keep rocking on with your bad self and tell the stories you want to tell. If it's not someone's cup of joe, they can walk away. Find another who doesn't.

The only other suggestion I'd give is it boggles the mind you use your player-logins as DM ones. That just seems silly as you're inviting idiots to connect does where there are no does to connect and worse.

Last edited by Very_Svensk on Sun, Mar 09 2014, 3:26 AM, edited 1 time in total.

; The great equalizer below is right. I've edited my response away.
Good said!

You should not use IA as simply a soapbox for opinions by stating what you wish and then asking it to be locked to avoid any form of response.

Further I will say that you should not tell DMs (or anyone) to simply disregard the opinions of others, simply disagreeing with what other people have to say does not mean that it should be ignored, and while myself and others happily respect your own or anyone else thoughts on Amia, DMs or other players I would ask that you try to do the same in regards to others.

Just because something is not an issue for yourself does not mean that it is not an issue.

Amia is no more the DMs server than it is the server of any and every player, further DMs are not chosen by the players but by other DMs already on the team, it is because of that that I think it of the utmost importance to relay when there are issues, especially if it is with the team itself.

Edit: Also agree with Yoss that the player ones could probably be moved to OffTopic or GeneralDiscussion.

There's also the unanticipated side bonus of these DM threads: one player can read what another player has written to that DM and have a better understanding of what that player's expectations are. Not just of their DMs, but in general. It has the potential to bring players a little closer to understanding each other in addition to DMs and players understanding each other.

EDIT: And while I don't think this thread should be locked, I think it and the threads where players are fobbing off and asking for feedback should be move off of this forum.

Opinions are welcome, but more suited to General Discussion than Improving Amia.

The key is balance.

If you try to appease EVERYONE then you end up losing the server as every dispute becomes a flame-war that saps the desires of both the player community to play and the dm's to dm.

If you take no feedback at all then the server will die off just as well because rigidness will turn away new players.

Listen to some of the people some of the time but do your own stuff in the end because that's what you're happy with and this is a hobby not a job.

More DM:s should use the new function to remove the DM talk channel: you know so you can block out players from sending shouts up asking for x when you fun an event

My take is that we're gifted with these different styles of DM'ing, which is awesome and something unique to PW with quite a number of DMs on the team. Thanks for that, and looking forward to having even more players step up to the DM role.

As for my personal taste ? More NPC interaction. The orcharder popping up in Bendir to join random chat on the road, a guard asking why people enter Barak Runedar fully buffed, a merchant recommending such and such potion, etc...

NPC interaction helps immersion, simply.

Since I posted above I should add that a strong part of my own stance on DMs on Amia comes from the fact that there can be an important issue with having proper accountability, DMs on Amia are not chosen by players and yet you have a situation where you have certain people put into a situation where they can very heavily effect the server and effectively silence or disregard players and the amount of actual oversight to insure that doesn't happen is minimal.

Certainly there is the rest of the team to act as oversight be when they were the ones that selected the person they are meant to be overseeing and certainly when is the case presently in that members of the team seem very unwilling to be critical of other members of the team I think that it is VERY important that players are able to openly voice concerns and issues with DMs and the team itself, because if you choose to be a DM then you are choosing to be held to what needs to be a higher standard, and if you can't handle being forced to adhere to a higher standard... Then maybe you should take a look at if being a DM is really in the best interests of yourself and of the server or is maybe you would be happier and more effective being a player.

My criticism isn't directed at any specific DM, so I'll post my comment here rather than the TtC topics.

I feel that the DM's Perogative has been invoked a lot more lately. "That's how it is because the DMs say so" should be the absolute last resort. If you find yourself having to appeal to the DMs' right to make any decisions they see fit, that is, if you can't explain and justify a decision in plain arguments, your thought process probably wasn't clear to begin with.

This ties in with an even bigger issue I've bumped into several times: general unwillingness to re-evaluate decisions and correct mistakes. Frankly, you seem stubborn. It seems that the default position is that "the DM is always right, even when he's wrong" rather than "We are always looking for new information and better arguments to improve our stance." You tend to act more like you're the execs of a company who won't have their executive decisions questioned for fear of losing authority. I'm sure you don't think so, but that's how it comes across. As a lore buff, most of my examples are from that department. A certain, clear-cut request complaint is another example - you made a mistake and could not go back on it for whatever contrived reason. I honestly can't remember the last time a DM has said, "Oh I did not know that, better see what we can do about it." Instead, the answer is almost automatic: "Be that as it may, this is how we do it on Amia/what we decided." You should be looking for a chance to revise and improve on past decisions, not silence counter-arguments with authority.

Neither do I remember the last time you asked for player feedback prior to publishing some new lore, rules or game content, though I may just have missed it. I don't think anything new (excluding fun module additions of course) should go in without a round of free comments; that's just good practice. You have some incredibly resourceful players, but you don't seem to utilize them. My perception is obviously colored by the unresolved issue of lore writing; it has taken you a month and a half now to make any kind of response to or give any indication that you've even noticed Mosh's suggestion and my PM. Maybe it got lost somewhere under bureaucracy, but it's hardly the only example of waiting for months for a simple response or confirmation on some lore question - they usually never come. You may have legitimate reasons, but when you don't communicate them honestly ("Nobody on the team really knows"), it leaves a sour taste.

As far as DM integrity, customer service, fun plots and availability to help with player stories are concerned, though, I have no complaints. Never in game have I felt mistreated. I think the team is doing a good job, which for me is tarnished by a few pointless, irritating flaws that would be easy to rectify.

My take is real simple. DM's that are client side, instead of player side is the key to any DMing. Can't do the job if you're not there, sort of thing. After making this comment in another thread, an idea came to me in the form of having the DM be able to use their 'main' toon in the client as a sort of npc. That way they could be DM side, do their DMly stuff....handle problems, requests, plots...with all the client resources, and also be present on their toon to drive story along as needed. /And/ they essentially can RP their asses off as they would player side.

I know i'm guilty of it like the rest of the server, but I always keep coming bact to altitis. That's how I see the multi world of DM/player. Though the staff is checked and rechecked for their ability to be classy, and intelligent when it comes to managing information, there is still a great chance for 'cross contamination'. The things they might see when sitting around in the client can be easily confused with their characters as they play them. Or, what they know from DMing could heavily influence their gameplay by virtue of having their toon do something to get involved or influence a plot line that they may not have done with out said DM knowledge. Now that could go both ways, with people using multiple accts, or toons. "Hey, my other toon is involved in X plot, but I like playing this toon, and he's not involved. I'll have this toon talk to Y person, and get him involved instead"

Again, it's a hard stance, but it's mine....and I know alot of you won't give it a second thought. But in essence. DM's can't DM when they're player side. So, really....?

How to improve on how to DM?

Simply be there.

I see trends of favoritism, especially in the request forum, but not limited to there.

I do want to thank all of the staff for their time and effort put forth, into the server. You have all made Amia a better place. I enjoy myself more now, than ever before. All of us have our faults, and make mistakes, and I commend you for placing yourselves in the cross-hairs. Don't take anything personally, and I hope those issues are resolved in private.

99% of you (not just DM's) have a life, and this is just a game. Everyone's effort, makes it worthwhile to play. If the DM staff is thinning, due to RL happenings, maybe some temporary DM's can be brought on to fill specific roles, until the 'official' DMs return. This would also help prepare/train prospects for future 'full-time' DM positions.

I understand DM confidentiality, so please, do not tell anyone that I am a one-percenter. That highly sensitive information, in the wrong hands, will be my undoing.

I normally stay quiet as might be obvious from my post count, but since we're going all out right now it seems I might as well post publicly about some of my own opinions. Considering I could potentially write an essay I'll just start off with one area: lore.

This seems to be a very troubled area lately. Most of the major plotlines I'm seeing are almost entirely homebrew stuff, some of which reminds one more of different games than anything related to D&D or FR. I'm okay with homebrew. It's not what I'd prefer, but if a DM wants an entirely homebrew thing then fine.
However, it's not so much okay when it appears that almost all the active stuff currently going on is homebrew. Not just partly homebrew, but so much to a degree that I can't see their inspiration at all in canon material. There should be at least 50/50 going on if some DMs are going to branch out into homebrew stuff. By 50/50 I mean some DMs going their homebrew route with others using more concrete lore. A mix of homebrew and concrete lore would be good too.

I heard from someone a DM say,

Quote:

99% of Amia is homebrew. We try to stay close to the FRCS, but then we add to it and alter is as we see fit.

It's a bit of a contradiction, as 99% being homebrew is hardly staying close to the FRCs. I wasn't aware this was the case in the first place? I was under the impression that the case was: stay as close to FR lore, and alter it only if needed for whatever reason. This implies there should be a reason for any lore that differs from canon. In the case of there not being lore then it'd obviously be drawn from the canon sources. Ideally, in such a manner that it fits in that gap without clashing with anything else.

Obviously, a lot of this is just my personal opinion as I stated at the beginning of this post. Just to make it clear: I'm not trying to insult, call out or name anyone. Only the quote is direct and I left the details of that situation out. I'm very happy with the DM team opening up discussion on both themselves and the DM team in general. That takes an effort that deserves applaud.

Very_Svensk wrote:

More DM:s should use the new function to remove the DM talk channel: you know so you can block out players from sending shouts up asking for x when you fun an event

oh god no. why would a DM ever turn off one of the most important communications they have between player and DM?

Quote:

This ties in with an even bigger issue I've bumped into several times: general unwillingness to re-evaluate decisions and correct mistakes. Frankly, you seem stubborn. It seems that the default position is that "the DM is always right, even when he's wrong" rather than "We are always looking for new information and better arguments to improve our stance."

mmm. The issue with DarkImmolation's bottled companion/Elohim/the item's bio comes to mind. I don't think that was handled well. His request had been approved long ago and we knew what Elohim meant. Forcing him to change it 'or else' then was silly, unnecessary, and lost you good will in people's eyes. It was entirely unnecessary, and the 'benefits' to the decision going as the DM team wanted were zero to very minimal. The name was already there and no one minded, otherwise it'd not have been approved in the first place, just like the plot Yoss ran that gave it is bio and background. The whole topic seemed a little silly and... well, just silly to me. Much ado over nothing, especially an already approved nothing that had already been run by the team's scrutiny once, at great length.

TormakSaber wrote:

well, just silly to me. Much ado over nothing, especially an already approved nothing that had already been run by the team's scrutiny once, at great length.

I really hate to beat a dead horse again but it baffles me to read your post the overall begrudgement as if you actually gave it even a fraction of minute to look it up before approving it where it was against the server's own famous name rule to begin with.

But i digress i'd roll a monk of ilmater named "Jesus Christ" or a fighter of tempus named "Allah" because hey why stop there? it becomes an avalanche of inapproriate names.

Lastly i'd like to point out that one player's right to be free to use RL religion/ RL religious symbolism in game is in no way shape or form superior to another player's right to be free of said RL religion / RL religious symbolism.

Your opinion is well-noted and respected, Eizendur. That doesn't mean it has to be agreed with.

Like wise.

I think the issue is as much as you view it as a slippery slope to allowing more directly referential names, others (including myself) view it as a slippery slope in the opposite direction, possibly leading to heavier and heavier restrictions on things. For example can I not have a character named John due to the very strong biblical links and origins the name has?

I respect that you have your own view and are free (and encouraged) to bring up concerns if you have them, although I personally believe that the naming rules are there to prevent things like making characters that are purposefully anachronistic, satirical, or purposefully offensive but not there to exclude any and all names that come from real world things.

All of that said this really isn't the right location for an in depth discussion on all of that. I would suggest a separate topic but considering we have already had one on this issue and both sides of the issue have been stated pretty clearly there probably wouldn't be much to gain from it, so its probably just best served that we all just let each other to our own opinions on it.

Quite. No offense is intended, Eizendur. You just seem to be of a minority opinion amongst this crowd on that issue, and I feel for you. I hope that it doesn't make you feel marginalized or unwelcome.

Yossarin wrote:

Quite. No offense is intended, Eizendur. You just seem to be of a minority opinion amongst this crowd on that issue, and I feel for you. I hope that it doesn't make you feel marginalized or unwelcome.

I'm with Eizendur. RL religion shouldn't be touched with a 10-foot pole.

o dear. I was just commenting on Iron's bit....

Yes, that was one example I had in mind. Frankly, there isn't much room for disagreement there - it was clearly a mistake, and only an uneducated and rash judgement could explain the outcome. That it was not reconsidered after clearly superior arguments to the contrary were provided was just another instance of DMs sticking to their guns for no apparent reason, I felt. I won't repeat the arguments here (and I never got to express mine), but suffice it to say the decision does not represent the line taken with other cases.

It isn't even just about the outcome, but the fact that the decision was made before there had even been any discussion. In a fair panel, with arguments weighed on a clean slate, the scales would probably have tipped far in the other direction, but there was never a chance for that.

That's actually related another gripe: the inane ban on player posts in Requests. It was put there to stop players from flaming and nitpicking each other's requests, but competent DMs never had trouble navigating the topics. Now there is no place to offer helpful tips or insights or stand up to unjust or misinformed decisions, further intensifying the sense of Amia being the DMs' private show. I feel intimidated even to post a link to a precedent or correct a typo in someone's request before it goes in, because I can expect automatic retaliation.

I don't mean for this to be read in terms of the specific request. There was much inarguably wrong in the actual contents of that discussion and much we could reasonably disagree on, but I think the above points are something you can generalize from. They're larger issues, and the kind that breed resentment and pent-up frustrations.

IronAngel wrote:

Yes, that was one example I had in mind. Frankly, there isn't much room for disagreement there - it was clearly a mistake, and only an uneducated and rash judgement could explain the outcome.

You're mistaken. There was much room for legitimate disagreement, and your opinion does not constitute an "argument."

In lieu of lag while working in the desert, I haven't been able to play a ton lately, but I still manage to hear nothing but the DMs this, the DMs that. Pardon me, but what the fuck? Can we just go back to playing the game? What we do is nerdy enough without actually bitching about it.

Last edited by IronAngel on Sun, Mar 09 2014, 22:20 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Because that has worked so well, Madrik. The DMs themselves have a standing request for criticism, and TGE also explained quite well why it's useful. Problems fester if they're not dealt with.

Liz, I think the one example has derailed the topic enough. I promise I'll PM you later a summary of the arguments I could make that should probably convince any rational reader. Tomorrow, perhaps, but I have a lot of writing to do.

MadrikVale wrote:

In lieu of lag while working in the desert, I haven't been able to play a ton lately, but I still manage to hear nothing but the DMs this, the DMs that. Pardon me, but what the fuck? Can we just go back to playing the game? What we do is nerdy enough without actually bitching about it.

Holy shit...that just about sums this right up. It's a game. Why are we treating it like it's going to change our very lives! =D

Bravo, Madrik! Well put

The Requests Forum has needed to be revamped for a long time.

The players' opinion ban was put in effect by DMs who were overtired and overwhelmed, which seeing our IA forums, might just always be the case! I think the purpose implied was that it would both alleviate DMs' annoyance and therefore make them happy to provide more help for the requests, which might be the case... but eh. I don't think it's been as much of a boon as it was intended to be. I definitely feel unwelcome there and while I'm happy to stand up for myself, I do feel as if it's made the feel of the forum and requests in general very uncomfortable and unhappy. If the DMs ever want to improve the Requests Forum, that would be one of many things I'd suggest to change.

I think the player opinion ban in the requests forum is kind of awesome, actually. Especially given the facts that 1.) players can explicitly waive the ban in their own threads at their own option, and welcome outside player opinions if they want them; 2.) DMs have always (in my observation, at least) welcomed player opinions by PM directly to them.

IronAngel wrote:

...DMs sticking to their guns for no apparent reason, I felt....

IronAngel wrote:

Now there is no place to offer helpful tips or insights or stand up to unjust or misinformed decisions, further intensifying the sense of Amia being the DMs' private show. I feel intimidated even to post a link to a precedent or correct a typo in someone's request before it goes in, because I can expect automatic retaliation.

Just to expand on these points I have had some similar feeling in that there seems to have been a sort of general feeling going around in a lot of DM stuff that they feel that being a DM means that they are allowed to make decisions as they see fit regardless of what others (namely players) might think, it gives off the impression that many DMs think of Amia as somehow more "theirs" then the players regardless of the considerable time and effort that many, many players have put in over the years.

I don't know if it stems from some weird mindset that is just permeating the team or that there are DMs that feel like they have a certain greater right to make changes to do with the server as they wish simply due to being DMs but I would ask that if it is the later that ask that it be remembered that Amia's DM system works on faith, the faith that as a DM you first and foremost represent the wishes of the player base as a whole.

As players we do not posses the same ability to drastically change and alter the server (though creation and alteration of lore or running events, etc) and since we don't elect DMs we rely on the principle that the DMs will listen and be flexible and hopefully work to enact the will of all Amian, regardless of if it is their own preference or not.

Players are held accountable to DMs, but the DMs are meant to be held accountable to players as well. And I think that the later part of that has seen some issues.

That's a horrible idea. Why is someone's request anyone's business but theirs and the DMs? The forum shouldn't even be visible, let alone public. Busybodies don't need yet another outlet to criticize people's RP. The current method of donating a DC is perfectly fine to show support, and people without anything positive to say can keep shut about it.

(Though I think perhaps the idea of spending a DC to -raise- someone's request cost if you really hate them that much would be amusing as all get out.)

Equalizer, that sentiment just confuses me. DMs *are* allowed to make decisions as they see fit, regardless of players' objections. DMs *do* have the right to make changes to the server as they wish simply because they are DMs. You're not objecting to the present Amian team of DMs here, so much as you're objecting to the fundamental definition of what it means to be a DM. In a D&D-style game, a PC controls her/his own character, and the DM has absolute authority over everything else. I don't understand your complaint here.

Liz wrote:

I think the player opinion ban in the requests forum is kind of awesome, actually. Especially given the facts that 1.) players can explicitly waive the ban in their own threads at their own option, and welcome outside player opinions if they want them; 2.) DMs have always (in my observation, at least) welcomed player opinions by PM directly to them.

I have an issue with the principle of how its been working myself, I mean since when did we become so sheltered that players cannot just openly give advice or criticism to each other or DMs? Why must there be this bureaucracy and putting things behind closed doors all the time?

I ask what is wrong with just wanting to be able to help, or comment or give criticism to others in an open and frank manner? I have gotten the sense that when many try to do that others take it as an offense or attack when really all it is it trying to openly talk and discuss things.

I at least despite my many (MANY MANY) differences of opinion have always respected others being able to voice their opinions and not have to fear backlash. Attacks and the like should be dealt with but many things being prevented and punished now are far from that sort of thing. And frankly I choose to believe that the Amian community is by and large a mature enough group to handle that.

Liz wrote:

I think the player opinion ban in the requests forum is kind of awesome, actually. Especially given the facts that 1.) players can explicitly waive the ban in their own threads at their own option, and welcome outside player opinions if they want them; 2.) DMs have always (in my observation, at least) welcomed player opinions by PM directly to them.

Fair! I'm certain that other players feel this way as well. (Ninja just ninja'd me to agree with you. Ha!) Be that as it may, my implication is that some of the players who don't agree probably feel unwelcome to say so because of the ban in general. It is, in my experience, what bans on unnecessary things lead to. Hesitance, awkwardness and a general feeling of separation by the conceived "lesser" party. Similarly to how DMs have said their experiences player-side can change when they become a DM, or they try to do both, as evidenced in the IA threads. I think it has the same sort of subtle, silent effect and I don't think it's necessary. But hey, it's not truly a big deal. There are bigger problems in general and bigger problems in the Requests forum-- and really, that may not even be a problem for many people.

(Also, you may say that Iron and I are voicing our opinion very well, and while that is true, Iron and I have never had fear in voicing our opinions! So it may be elitism in considering myself different from other players, or it may be that I simply am different from other players. We won't ever have concrete proof on either side of the argument.)

The DM/PM argument depends on DM/PMs in question and isn't really very related to my perceived issue with the ban at all, though.

Liz wrote:

Equalizer, that sentiment just confuses me. DMs *are* allowed to make decisions as they see fit, regardless of players' objections. DMs *do* have the right to make changes to the server as they wish simply because they are DMs.

I ask Liz, who gave them that right? I did not, you did not. As far as I know no one gave them that right. We are all given the right to be players as long as we follow the rules, however DMs are given POWER to do things by a small handful of the playerbase (other standing DMs) and the power is given (I feel) in the spirit that it will be used for the players, I would argue that having the power to do something and the right to do something are very different things.

Also, Nazis.

The Great Equalizer wrote:

I ask Liz, who gave them that right?

DevDisco gave it to them. The guy who owns the server. It's his house we're playing in, and we're bound to play by his rules. Those rules include the normal presence of normal DMs with normal DM powers and authority.

Disco did not hand pick all the current DMs, and even if he had there are many who have been playing since back when Magnum owned and operated the server (or even from before Amia split from Arelith). Disco does maintain the server existing (which I am extremely grateful for) and has the power to simply shut it off if he wanted to, but Amia does not belong to him, it is not his "thing". Amia is something that I feel belongs to and has been built by every player (which includes DMs) who has ever played on it. And I do not ever intend to abandon that belief. If you have the power to change it then I feel you have the responsibility to make sure that you are doing so with that in mind.

... And pretty much every other post in this thread sums up all my point for me nicely.

In my time here, fairly frequently, someone posts posts something needless complaining about DM interaction. I've seen posts complaining because an encounter was HUMOROUS of all things, or slightly different than what one line in some obscure handbook suggests, or the DM didn't see things their way so he's unfair and favortist, and any other thing.

You can't and never will please everyone. And entreating the (very) few, overly vocal minority by even acknowledging those voices, you're just inviting even more threads by that one more picky person that the way this or that DM portrays a drow NPC to complain.

The plethora of threads in the IA forum by DMs was the most unnecessary thing I've ever seen. Everybody is different and they all have their own tastes. There are no right ways to tell story because you cannot have a "right opinion." This isn't a science field, there are no facts and you cannot take a DMing test an earn an A+. Listening to them doesn't improve you, it just sways you closer to their tastes which is against others you move away from (and will just cause those guys to complain in response... which will send you chasing after -their- praise).

More importantly, I don't think anybody -wants- their DMs wasting their time sitting on the forum responding to every little post. I prefer to see DMs ingame making the world come to life by telling a story, possessing an NPC to entertain someone, taking care of server business, helping a player with a problem, or just hooking newbies to come back over and over again with interaction.

Short of gross misconduct like noticing a DM being corrupt or having a DM who seems to think DMing means throwing packs of tarrasques at players til they inevitably die, a complaint really has nothing of merit worth responding to. Wasting your time responding to everyone and trying to cater to them as if DMing is as simple as making hamburgers will just leave you tired and burnt out and no closer to shutting people up because everything you're doing has convinced them -need- to be catered to.

Want to improve Amia? "Shut up and sing." Want to improve DMing? Only one way to do that, DM. And that is why this was posted in Improving Amia and belongs there. It should have been locked because I knew exactly what it'd become, a chance for the vocal minority to assert that yes, they should be listened to and somehow their opinion is so much more valid than others' (including a DM's) and DMs should chase it.

This story has played out many times on other servers and is always exactly the same. It just leads to DMs inviting player input, which then means players feel entitled to complain about -everything-, which inturn leads to DMs tiring of it, and inevitably never bothering to interact at all because of the ungrateful noise that arises anytime the dare to do anything. You're trading an already overly-tread road and not learning from the mistakes of others who took it.

Every single post below my initial offering is an opinion expressing something different. None are correct because they are all opinion. You want to chase all that? You'll just die tired. People need to just realize their parents lied to them, they aren't special, and they should just play the game and enjoy whatever comes their way. My post isn't telling you how to DM. My post is telling you the only way you're going to have any staying power and enjoy your time DMing is to do what makes you happy and tell the stories -you- want to tell, because -that- is the only thing that will bring you back to the DMing table tomorrow, the next week, the next month, or the next year. It doesn't matter if the stories you tell are grand and epic, end-of-the-world events, a simple chit chat had with a sausage vendor, or a goofy encounter with a delusional elvish cleric named "Elrond Hubbard" and his assistant "Diane Ettics" who try to convert PCs into their wierdo cult.

My advice to any DM is if you see any post whining about something a DM did, treat it as you would a post titled "BLUE IS THE BEST COLOR AND ANYONE THAT SAYS OTHERWISE IS AN IDIOT." Little good comes from reading it, it's a waste of time to reply, and it's probably best for the community if you just delete it.

I dont believe the method of putting your hands over your ears and shouting "I cant hear you!" is a very helpful or effective way to work, I will also add that I find your characterization of others as well as calls for people to simply be ignored because you do not seem to agree or care to have them be listened to to be extremely disrespectful. especially when even if disagreeing with your own statements no one has asked that your voice or opinions be ignored.

I would ask that you kindly try to extend that same courtesy to others.

Quote:

Want to improve Amia? "Shut up and sing." Want to improve DMing? Only one way to do that, DM.

...this, and only this.

Analog Kid wrote:

Quote:

Want to improve Amia? "Shut up and sing." Want to improve DMing? Only one way to do that, DM.

...this, and only this.

+1

Analog Kid wrote:

Quote:

Want to improve Amia? "Shut up and sing." Want to improve DMing? Only one way to do that, DM.

...this, and only this.

That argument is a two-edged sword, though. The other edge is "shut the fuck up, take what you're given, and stand in line like a good little girl; your feedback has no relevance here." Nothing lies in that direction but an empty server. I don't see any possible good in arguing that there's inherently no value in having a dialogue about our thoughts and opinions and feelings. I don't see the sense in arguing that the way to get better at DMing is to close yourself off from anyone else's advice, keep doing the same thing over and over, and then hope for different results.

Respect is a two way street. I'm having a difficult time understanding your last post The Great Equalizer. You say you find Might-n-Magic's opinion extremely disrespectful, but you made a post calling for a no confidence of the DM staff, which i took as a public slap in the face of the DM team and found that to be disrespectful. How can you be disrespectful on one hand then call foul on another for what you perceive to be disrespectful? And to clarify something, I am not a friend of any DM on the staff, I rarely ever speak to them, i have never asked for a Event for any one of my toons on forums or in game even when DM's offer them, and I have a whopping total of 16 total DC coins I believe in almost being here two years. I have not once publicly complained about our staff, and i don't think I have to anyone because i'm satisfied with the job they do, they have always been helpful when I need a head change or had a question, and have been nice and respectful to me. I come from servers that the last two years seeing a DM on was a rare sight so I am grateful for the DM's and the job they do. I do my own thing by my lonely and i still enjoy myself on this server. I don't want to start some flame war or have a OOC beef, i'm quite sure you are a pretty cool person in RL. I'd just like to see are player base have faith in our DM Staff and stop with the distractions and allow them to do what they love doing without having to take time away from IG Dming, forum requests and trying to appease everyone who is unhappy and thinks DM's need to change to a mold that they believe is correct. Were are all different, we all have our opinions and we all see things in a different light, calling out the DM team I see as only disruptive and rather pointless and counter productive. I have kept my mouth shut for a long time in till recently, and maybe it's different how things are done here. *Shrugs*

Liz, in a way I understand what your trying to say, but doing it publicly I think only does more damage than good. And voicing your thoughts through post messages in my opinion, is the way to go.

I would like to point out the irony inherent in complaining publicly about not listening to public complaints.

People seem awfully sure that their objective, unbiased, prophetic opinions are the best. I wish I had such courage myself.

We're just going over old ground again, and it's becoming aggressive. This thread has served its purpose, as MightNMagic specifically said that this thread isn't meant to be a discussion, but a message.

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