Code red!

Code red!

... I suck at making Frugdar survive!

Here's the problem; he has low AC (27 at level 17 at the moment...) because he uses a two handed weapon and has no classes in his build that grant tumble. He's designed to be a damage machine, and while he is that, he simply doesn't have the AC to survive most things in the game, and he can't cast any spells, so in PvP against a high AC player he would also struggle to hit them and make it count.

What I need is simply some advice on how to improve his survivability. He doesn't get enough base CON for epic damage reduction, nor does he have the stats for mighty rage, much to my chagrin (trust me, I tried -lots- of different things, there simply aren't enough feats and stat points for it with his build). His build is fighter/barbarian/weapon master, he gets 3/- DR from barbarian levels. He has expertise, not improved expertise.


What, in general, would he need (without changing his classes), to make him somewhat survivable in PvM, or even in PvP if he can possibly get that high AC? I can only get it to:


10 (base)
+5 (deflection)
+5 (+5 dodge boots)
+13 (+5 full plate)
+5 (natural armor amulet)
+5 (expertise)
+1 (dexterity)
+1 (dodge)
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45



45 AC, with near end-game gear and expertise (thereby losing 5 AB), seems very low to me. Granted, 27 is low -period- and it can definitely be improved, but I can't figure out how to get more than 45 AC without grabbing improved expertise (and I really don't want to, because I'd have to lose either knockdown, my requested Frenzy feat that I want to get some day, or Blind Fighting) or Armor Skin, which is only +2 anyway.

Powergamers of Amia...


... Help me pile on the AC! What must I do?

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Osiris Masud

Well, taking 15 tumble cross-class will get you 3 extra AC, but it does cost you 30 skill points.

Eeee.... Yeah, that's something I can do, as painful as it may be with a 13 intelligence...

Anything else? 48 is better, but still not great.

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Osiris Masud

Shouldn't this be in the build topic?

Anyway: nah, you're buggered. STR-tanks without Tumble don't see real 50AC without external buffing or PM levels, and that is that. By 'real AC' I exclude Expertise.

For now, camp Hilrash's shop for the +4AC castoffs from epic hunts, and/or the +4 stuff that's in the easy access shops.

Yes, this really should be in the build topic.

You just need to find a lot of equipment, really. My barb, Ingrid, usually has 40-44 AC when hunting Snowy, Pirate and Giants, and she works out just fine!

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Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.

Despite there being a topic for this do not Barbs live and thrive on their damage reduction to compensate for lower AC?

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

5/- for Strength based barbarians, but given how much strength most high-end creatures have, it's kind of useless if you don't have the buffs, or Con, to keep yourself alive for however many rounds it takes for your heal potions to renew to full effect.

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Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.

My point of view on this is to more or less ignore AC (when you have low AC, you will get hit by mostly everything anyway)

Then you:

1) Focus on getting resist items (slashing resist, bludgeon resist, fire resist when you go fire giant-ish places, etc.)
2) Focus on regeneration
3) Get max STR and max CON

When you get your aoe fear aura, things will be a lot easier

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526

Yes. Ignore AC! Don't waste gear slots trying to get AC when you fall far short of average, rely on DR, Regen, Stoneskin potions, and Improved Invisibility wands. Two-handers who have no dex should always ignore AC, because it will -always- be too low. I hate to admit it, but I dread it when I get a two-handed weapon wielder in my party who never thinks about defense besides crappy AC. It's not fun having to wait and raise a character after every 2 spawns.

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Some playstyles don't get everything. Frankly without a few classes, you'll never get high AC and that's just the way it is. Barb heavy builds do damage on a whole, not AC.

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

So if I only get 17 barbarian levels, and I don't have the 21 constitution needed for epic damage reduction, meaning I only have a natural DR of 3/-... How useful is that? I mean, I've never seen items that offer more than 5/- DR against each physical weapon type, and those items don't stack together. You use one of them, and then your natural feat-based DR, and that's it. So I get 8 DR at most, it seems. Let's say I also have +5 regeneration - that's not even as good as DR, because it only regenerates once per round, not once per hit on the character. It's like a damage-reduction against the damage you took over the course of the entire round, not just against one attack.

How is that even remotely enough protection, if I'm fighting even two fire giants at once? I feel like I'm missing something critical.

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Osiris Masud

Dunno much about gear on the server but if you can get mage armor for 1ac and imp invis or displacement for 50% conceal. Tensers would also be a pretty good option if possible. Hopefully you can get them on wands/scrolls/gear. Otherwise I recommend apologizing to Kaitlan and getting all the free heals ^~

How is Kaitlan, by the way, with her 10 AC?

Also, tenser's isn't possible on a barbarian lol, it would require a wand - which can't be done for tenser's. Improved Invisibility seems the best option, but dispel would ruin that, and I also don't know if wands of Improved Invis can be used without UMD or caster levels.

I really like the idea of massive Damage Resistance/Reduction and a large pool of HP, and some regeneration - but it's hard to fit so much stuff on gear, and it's even harder simply finding gear that has lots of DR, since I don't get much natural DR anyway.

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Osiris Masud

The best DR you can get is only 5, besides the crappy boots that gives 10 from bludgeoning damage. I think Barbs should be able to get something that allows more DR, but I have never seen anything very good in any lootbin or in any store. 6 SD levels could help, but that would take away from barb levels. That's about all I can say to help.

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So 8 DR is it; well, there -is- stoneskin and greater stoneskin, in addition to improved invisibility. So my final questions are...


Do most epic enemies (illithid, zanshibon, beholders, snowy wastes, manor of mourne) have +5 weapons capable of piercing Stoneskin? As well, can wands of Improved Invisibility be used by anyone?

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Osiris Masud

I'm not sure if any of those monsters have +5 weapons, but I'm guessing they don't. Also, I'm pretty sure you have to be a magic-user or have UMD to use crafted wands.

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First of all, helping him survive, is surely not challenging two kobolds to a duel in Bendir.

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Plays Wicket
And Caige!

"No, You're worse the a simple slobbering beast. A simple slobbering beast seldom shows cunning, attempty at manipulation and use of diplomacy. No, You're a far more dangerous beast than that." ~Tuomas

Airing dirty laundry on the forums is frowned upon, as is casting a combat spell in front of NPC guards (which started the pvp) - effectively metagaming the guards because a DM was not present.

Would you like to remove your post now?

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Osiris Masud

You have probably already mentioned it, so apologies if I missed it, but are you getting Mighty Rage eventually? I think the best options you have as others have already mentioned is to stack up on various damage resistances (not damage reduction) and passive regen and ensure that your weapon has vampiric regen.

You're never going to be able to tank any mobs that decide to pick on your low AC instead of the others around you, but with enough passive/vampiric regen and damage resistance, you should be able to run out of range of the combat temporarily to break the enemies focus on you without much HP lost, only to charge back in and regen your HP back fairly quickly to stay in the fight. This may look odd IC when you have to effectively flee from the combat, but just RP it as taking some distance to try to taunt and bring out an enemy in 1 on 1 combat (or spinning and trashing outside of combat range whilst you're busy mindlessly raging).

Most of the time, you should be with others, so the expectation is that you should be mechanically holding back from the combat and keeping your distance whilst the enemy NPC's target your buddy with the shield and AC. Once they have your friend in their sights, move in on the flank and pick off the targets that are engaged with your friend, not the ones stacked up in the back unable to attack, because they will, most of the time turn on you instead of waiting in line to attack your friend. If you go for the ones in the back, kill one, fallback a little, and charge back in once again.

It may take a while to gear up / level up, but in my opinion it's how you fight against the NWN engine that will help you the most whilst you're doing this that will keep you alive.

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Paladin of Sune wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934661#p934661



That's your AC. If it isn't immune to mind spell/fear, you can pretty much replace all AC bonuses by a stacking +6 to intimidate on every single one of your items.. which all take just 1 mythal slot per item. A 100 or so fear aura DC combined with any of the rages Amia has is how you survive the server with a barb with 10 AC. That fear rage thing is overpowered, to be honest.

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526

The fear aura is what I'm going for, but to be honest, aren't a lot of monsters going to be higher level than me when I get that (at level 27)? And if not, are most monsters NOT immune to fear? I don't know, just asking.






Unfortunately, very unfortunately, I'm not picking up mighty rage - just too many stat points required. I can't manage to get it and terrifying rage (the best part of any barbarian) and also get Weapon Master levels (which puts a strain on stats). I even posted in the build thread to try and figure out how to do it, but they confirmed that it's not possible with a human.

Good advice though, and I will take it!

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Osiris Masud

I just don't think the ACless route can be done on Amian Barbs. There was an ogrillion that tried very hard - some pretty good DC special items on his gearset, but basically he just died a lot, and the cooldown to Heals effectively broke it.

Dwarven Defender is the class that gets enough DR to make it work, and my Frt7/WM5/DwD18 was pretty good. 9/- each from from Epic DR and DwD18, 10/-blunt and 5/- Slash, 5/- Pierce and then 10% immunity to Slash/Pierce from his DC armour(it was a 0AC pair of trousers and an open necked shirt), which all stacks, so de facto 31/-and 27/- DR, plenty of room for Regen, so he only ever used Heals at bosses, and even then just the heavier hitters. He didn't have any Tumble and used the heavy flail, so his AC rarely went above 20.

It actually would have been better to wear armour and go sword'n'board- really doesn't take up that much room, and even 45AC trims off the lower attacks, so the Regen/flak equation tilts in his favour.