AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So I've been playing here for a couple weeks now and have been playing one of my favourite classes, the Shifter, delighted with how many changes have been made to the class. I've done bits and pieces of roleplay, getting myself familiar with the way the world works and doing the standard grind, but now it's come to the point where the character I have is the character I like, and I need to make sure I can flesh out the things that are important to me in more detail.

I thus had a few questions for the shifters and lorey folks of the server, that are better asked out of character than in character, because really it'd be a bit silly asked in character.

How does shapeshifting actually work. I understand it's a mental strain and, according to DnD, involves a little bit of magic, but what is it actually doing? Are you replacing one body with another, your soul remaining within? Are you altering your body in to something different?
The way I've been roleplaying this at the moment is the latter... Take what you have, alter it and shift it in to something more useful. There's a couple of questions I have depending on what that's all about...

When you shapeshift, does your voice change, and do you retain the ability to speak in all forms? I've been taking a literal approach to this, that the forms that can speak are those that have the mouth and throat for it, and that when you turn in to a minotaur and start making pretty noises, these noises are travelling through the beasts vocal chords and coming out with something more appropriate to a minotaur than "Get them! Oooooh make them hurt!".

Following on from this, how much control do we have over our personal effects when we shift? My feeble grasp of the DnD rules recalls something about all items currently on your person are brought within the shifter, so to speak. Is that how it works here, and if so, would it be possible to 'exclude' something from this process? Specifically, would it be possible for a shifter to designate something about themselves; a necklace, birthmark, tattoo; as something that is a constant. Yes, our souls are who we are and such, but when I'm running around with my friends as a lizardfolk, fighting lizardfolk... I feel like if it were possible my character would do SOMETHING to make sure she was easy to recognise.

I have a multitude of other questions, but these are the important ones...

Generally, with shifters, the body changes, the soul remains the same. Forms that can't speak cannot speak, but those that can, can. I.E., no talking wolves, but your minotaur should be able to speak, albeit not sounding like you do when in your normal form.

As far as merging items goes, it changes from form to form, I believe. Some merge all, some merge certain pieces, and I think a few don't merge anything, but don't quote me on that.

Having your shifter show some sort of distinctive feature wouldn't be lore-breaking, I think. I know there's times in the FR novels were lycanthropes or other shapeshifters do that (such as a werebear priestess of Selune always having a crescent-shaped swath of silver fur on her in her bear form), so I imagine it'd not be a stretch.

Forgive me if this seems a bit silly, but what happens if you get smooshed in ant/spider form? It's been "bugging" me since I got the new forms. Instant death and revert? Unusually unsquishable bug? Instant revert with broken limbs and cracked ribs? I get the feeling it'll come up!

I believe, from what I've looked into, that Shifting is more of a zen, monk-like magic. The soul remains the same throughout shifting, but the image of the shifter is non-binding. He's able to change forms freely, because he doesn't define himself by his body, rather, his mind. So he is a being of great will, in that he shapes his own image through willpower and magic.

Your voice and physical attributes change in accordance to the 'body' the Shifter assumes. Keep in mind though, with things like Mindflayers, you don't possess the ability of telepathy. You can communicate in all the ways the Soul knows how to, and only as long as the body is capable of it.

Spider Question
Since you're in essence altering your body, and not just attaining the appearance of a small spider (But are actually a large human), I would think it would result in death. Let's simply upgrade the scale and look at it, right? Let's say you shifted into a Minotaur, and a gargantuan monster squished you under his foot. You would die, because your body is crushed. Shifting into a small creature simply invites smaller creatures than the gargantuan to do the same amount of crushing.

That's my take on it, anyway. I'm certain I could be corrected.

fom what ive seen rped and the things ive read about it, shifters are played as just a kind of spellcaster that just shifts instead of casting spells..how you play it is pretty much up to you as long as you stay within the parameters of the class

Keep in mind that as a supernatural ability, shifting is suppressed by anti-magic fields and dead magic zones. I thought I'd mention it as it had come up while I played my shifter more than once.

Edit to make it a sentence.

So from what I can tell...

Shifting is magical, and exactly how each person shifts in to a specific creature differs depending on their chosen roleplay. What matters is that it's magical in nature, and as with its druidic origins, it is based on willpower, as opposed to intellect or force of personality? (Never understood sorcs). Similar to spellcasting, shifting has numerous 'spells', which are the forms we take. But since these forms are the bodies we inhabit, the way we go about 'casting' them depends a lot on the person... as opposed to normal spells which have a verbal and/or somatic component which is consistent across different spellcasters.
In a way, would it be fair to say that shapeshifting is the same as spells which are cast with neither verbal nor somatic components? It's an application of magic controlled by the mind...

I may be thinking way further in to this than i need to... what you've all said though does make sense and helps a lot.

I wouldn't call it a spell, as a spell suggests a specific ritual a formula to it, which as you said, isn't present in the base lore for shifters which really is scant. It's magical insofar as it draws from the weave, but not a form of the Art or the Power thus (if you've taken five or fewer druid levels) it is not rooted in a druidic origin, but druids happen to be very common individuals to take up the path of a shifter. Whether the wisdom investment that the PrC demands is a representation of a zen self-awareness or sheer willpower is up to you.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Forgive me if this seems a bit silly, but what happens if you get smooshed in ant/spider form? It's been "bugging" me since I got the new forms. Instant death and revert? Unusually unsquishable bug? Instant revert with broken limbs and cracked ribs? I get the feeling it'll come up!

Ever tried to stomp an ant? <.< good luck. They are very hard to sqish with something as big as a boot which also does not have a constant surface. A thumb... more likely. In that case I would say, yes they are dead if they are stupid enough to remain seated and wait until someone bent down and squished them.

Though they would likely be more resistant than a normal ant, considering technically, armor still merges.

Quick question, is there no size restriction to what shifters can change into? If they can change into ants, can they also change into micro-organisms, or other very small animals and such?

You can change into what you can change into via your feats and widgets.

Anything additional you need to either request or is up to DM supervision.

While we're asking things about shifters, are there meant to be forms other than dragon and wyrmling that are intended to not merge everything? According to the class change post all other shapes are supposed to merge all items, but outsider form's death slaad and construct shape's stone golem don't, making the slaad a waste of a use/day and the stone golem extremely situational.

This is by no means a shifter fact, but I would imagine there is some form of restriction, besides mechanics, I'd personally wager micro-organisms would be out of the question of things to turn in to.

And to add to Hackums' point on the telepathy, in the past players have been confused or simply not known and tried to IC'ly use telepathy, but it's not something allowed on Amia for a player. Unless for some reason that has changed, which I highly doubt, but even if it was changed I don't think any DM would be jumping to allow individuals to use it.

And of course I took a bit too long with this response and it was trumped by Amarice's post!

I think micro organisms are out of question, personally. But there is no official decision there because it was never requested and hence would be up for discussion and need to be requested.

However, the prequisite to turn into a being is that you need to know it, study it.

D&D is not a setting with modern technology. I do personally not believe you would have the means to study a micro-organism properly enough to learn to turn into it.

Also some things that I have noticed from new shifters. Reiterating that animal shapes cannot speak. Sorry your badger can't really "badger" me with conversation. Also unless I am wrong, but you also cannot partially shift. All or nothing. Just wanted to add that since I see those things happen enough times to warrant the comment, and this is about RP.

You can partially shift. It takes a lot of practice, and it would require a request. (I believe Tarich did this with his legs). Remember, the shifter doesn't define himself by his body, so he's only really limited by what he knows/is capable of perceiving in the mind (And obviously by what our tools allow in game). Just keep in mind, to be able to shift into something, you have to have a general understanding of it. So if you're considering partially shifting, you'll have to have a firm idea/vision of what it is you're trying to shift into. If you haven't seen that thing before, odds are, it wouldn't happen.

But say a shifter wanders into the feywild? Hot damn, he'll have some crazy weird things he could turn into that would probably resemble partial shifting.

You're correct in that shifters as animals cannot talk.

GustFrostbite wrote:

What matters is that it's magical in nature, and as with its druidic origins, it is based on willpower, as opposed to intellect or force of personality?

You don't have to be a druid to be a shifter on Amia IC (NWN wise yeah you need 5 druid levels), I myself am not a druid so dont have follow the druid guide lines of RP, but keep in mind non-druid shifters cant use druid only items,druid spells or the pet.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Forgive me if this seems a bit silly, but what happens if you get smooshed in ant/spider form? It's been "bugging" me since I got the new forms. Instant death and revert? Unusually unsquishable bug? Instant revert with broken limbs and cracked ribs? I get the feeling it'll come up!

Ever tried to stomp an ant? <.< good luck. They are very hard to sqish with something as big as a boot which also does not have a constant surface. A thumb... more likely. In that case I would say, yes they are dead if they are stupid enough to remain seated and wait until someone bent down and squished them.

Though they would likely be more resistant than a normal ant, considering technically, armor still merges.

Dont forget damage reduction/resistance, so in a case like mine with my 9/- from feats and 10 blunt resistance from gear(stomp I assume is blunt) thats 19 less damage per blunt attack and given a normal person has a base of zero reduction/resistance would that not mean I'm harder to stomp to death even as ant then if you were stomping on a grown man?

Provided everything merged, yeah. You'd be a frustrating ant to crush. But bear in mind, your overall strength and fortitude would be that of an ants. So as a human, you might be able to take a glance from a hammer and not feel a thing, a large boot is going to feel like the equivalent of a titan swinging a hammer at a human.

As you go smaller, bigger things do bigger damage.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

Provided everything merged, yeah. You'd be a frustrating ant to crush.

As its 1k faces so just a skin change the shifter merging does not come into effect (Stats not stacking...ect)

corypx wrote:

Mr. Hackums wrote:

Provided everything merged, yeah. You'd be a frustrating ant to crush.

As its 1k faces so just a skin change the shifter merging does not come into effect (Stats not stacking...ect)

Mechanically, sure, though RPing a bug with 350 HP seemed a little weird, so I thought I'd check.

The thing is, this goes for all forms there though. A dog has no 300 HP either, not a bat, a frog, a deer...

The 1000faces is just a skinchanger simply because it would take forever to make a custom polymorph for every form.

The normal lore of the shapes still apllies though. For example, the widget does not force unshift you when you die. But you still unshift when you die, lore wise. So you do still unshift if you die under the 1000faces effect even if it does not work automatically.

Same with casting. You can cast any spell in any shape of the 1000faces widget. But if you get caught casting in an animal shape you will get a heavy slap in the neck.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Same with casting. You can cast any spell in any shape of the 1000faces widget. But if you get caught casting in an animal shape you will get a heavy slap in the neck.

I am pretty sure that I've seen some time ago that this was absolutely approved by DMs. Natural Spell and such.

EDIT: Actually scratch that. I thought you were speaking for 1000 faces. How do you cast in Animal Shape anyway? I thought it was impossible by default. And I guess that by Animal Shape you mean Wild Shape?

No I mean the animal shapes of 1000faces.

Those shapes are reflecting an extension to the wildshape feat as wildshape normally lets you shift into any known animal.

You cannot cast in wildshape, indeed. And you are not allowed to cast under the animal shapes of the 1000faces either.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

The thing is, this goes for all forms there though. A dog has no 300 HP either, not a bat, a frog, a deer...

The 1000faces is just a skinchanger simply because it would take forever to make a custom polymorph for every form.

1000faces is not a true polymorph from the way I read it

"At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. This affects the druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell"

Amias 1k faces does not seem like the PnP 1k faces given we can turn into animals and such but given we dont take on the the abilities or stats of the chosen form because its a superficial transformation as described in the ability why would I not be a 300 HP dog,bat,frog or deer?

Th Amia 1000faces is a custom thing and not the PnP 1000faces, yes.

The humanoid part represents the alter self part....

... the animal shapes are more an extension of wildshape

That said... there is a special feat in PnP which allows you to speak and hence cast under wild shape, yes. Natural Spell. You do not have this feat on Amia and hence you cannot cast in animal shapes.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

That said... there is a special feat in PnP which allows you to speak and hence cast under wild shape, yes. Natural Spell. You do not have this feat on Amia and hence you cannot cast in animal shapes.

Can it be requested?

Technically, Druids should be able to cast spells that have no components in any form in which they can think. A druid with eschew materials, silent spell, and/or still spell using those metamagic feats to augment a spell until it has no components should work.

Whether that's physically possible to replicate in NWN... /rant rant rant

Bini wrote:

Keep in mind that as a supernatural ability, shifting is suppressed by anti-magic fields and dead magic zones. I thought I'd mention it as it had come up while I played my shifter more than once.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

That said... there is a special feat in PnP which allows you to speak and hence cast under wild shape, yes. Natural Spell. You do not have this feat on Amia and hence you cannot cast in animal shapes.

Can it be requested?

You can request anything. I am not sure if it would be approved. That will be seen if anyone ever does it. As far as I remember though, in the past the DM always were very much opposed to have talking animals. So probably not. But that is a decision the team would need to make together. So I cannot give a definite answer there.

Edit. Nevermind you still cannot speak in that form. You just are able to use the somatic components and gestures with the animal sounds and gesture.

It is up to request still and then a decision made by the team. I personally do not like the thought of animals running around casting spells much. But that is my very personal opinion.

I am also not sure how well it could be added mechanically for the wild shape. This feat also only applies to wild shape. Not any other shapes.

No worries there, Natural Spell has never allowed an animal form to speak coherently, merely substitute other somatic and verbal components for spells.

yeah i already corrected it while you posted it.

I'm confused about the Mind Flayer shape, actually. The general rule is that you can't actually use psionics (such as telepathy) while in the shape. But all of its special abilities (which we can and do use in combat) are psionic in nature. If psionics are such a huge no, why not just replace the shape with something else or just remove it entirely? It seems like fighting alone would be breaking the rules.

The abilities the Illithids form gets to use were apart of them already, with the exception of mass concussion (unless I'm forgetting another), replacing the shape IMO would take up time where not necessary and tbh it's not all that important in comparison to more major changes to the mod and such.

To remove it would be annoying for players who already focus on that form more than others and I think the big problem with psionics is generally the use of telepathy, thusly the fact it's plainly not allowed to be used by any PC. The rest It has that you can use via the mechanics don't give you the advantage of telepathy, just added protection and damage, which was a good addition as without it the form is sorely lacking and simply not worth taking without mass concussion. I think they have another ability too, but I forget so that's why I never mentioned that specific one, if they do infact have it.

Psionics are by no means completely off limits, Torin Starfall comes to mind for one example, there was also a player some time ago who iirc requested a gem dragon character (not entirely sure if it was a half or disciple but thats beside the point) of some sort which was also a psionic being. Unless the stance of the team has changed for any reason, of course.

Ive had a shifter for a long time, and one of the reasons ive returned to nwn after three long years is because I miss the shifter forms. Ive had a shifter on Amia for a long long time and awhile ago the discussion came up for some aspect and I cant find the answer to it so i will ask it again as its come up on many other nwn2 servers ive played on.

My question is this.

The spell shape change and polymorph, in essence turn you into what ever forms but that is like putting on a disguise the way i see it, in fact its subject to dispels

Wildshaping and thousand faces, you are becoming those creatures, your not putting on a magical dispelable disguise.

So...here it comes.

Does Truesight reveal shifters for who they really are? If i remember, the answer was no because wildshapers arnt throwing on a disguise they are literally becoming what ever form they turn into.

No, True Seeing does not see through shifter shapes, wild shape, elemental shape, etc. Or 1000faces.

It only sees though shifting spells (magical spells) like polymorph and lvl 9 shapeshift.

If a shifter is in Undead,Construct or something else thats not able to age does that mean they cant age as long as they remain in that form, then upon leaving the form return to the age prior to having changed form.
I have been RPing it as such,because undead cant age, if I become a true undead with all its ups and downs, I would be unable to age.

I was trying to look for that post where DMs were talking about, heal,regeneration...ect about how that works with missing limbs,scars and the like about it dealing with the persons perception of themself as the key factor for the outcome; as that might also play a roll into the not aging.

Just because his body is incapable of aging, in one form, doesn't meant that his soul isn't aging. Remember, the shifter assuming forms is still the shifter underneath. His body might show no signs of aging, but a shifter doesn't view himself as a single body (In most cases, unless they've become obsessed with a form). Its one mind with many shapes.

And eventually, that mind will wither and die, and the energies supplying the magic to even enter that shape will fade entirely. (Consider why a shifter reverts back to his normal form upon death!)

A shifter ages regardless of the form they are in. It is like the Timeless Body feat druids possess - you may not show any signs of ageing, but when you're not exempt from your race's lifespan.

Edit: or Hackums can beat me, hookay.

I recall having this discussion IC and a similar conclusion was raised, with one variant hypothesis; one could enter an ageless form, and should they maintain that form indefinitely they would not die of old age. However the moment they re-entered an organic form, the ageing process would "catch up" and if you were past your natural lifespan you would die instantly. But this is operating on a more real-world understanding of the ageing process - you can't separate the decay of the mind from the decay of the body, whereas in D&D plainly you can.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

Just because his body is incapable of aging, in one form, doesn't meant that his soul isn't aging. Remember, the shifter assuming forms is still the shifter underneath. His body might show no signs of aging, but a shifter doesn't view himself as a single body (In most cases, unless they've become obsessed with a form). Its one mind with many shapes.

And eventually, that mind will wither and die, and the energies supplying the magic to even enter that shape will fade entirely. (Consider why a shifter reverts back to his normal form upon death!)

Where can I find this source about souls having to do with aging as I dont ever recall anything about souls having to do with ones lifespan.

Shifting back when you die has nothing to do with that, its the pure fact that because your HP droped to below zero so your not incontrol of your powers so you cant maintain keeping your form, if you had not gotten your HP droped to below zero, you would have remained in form.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

A shifter ages regardless of the form they are in. It is like the Timeless Body feat druids possess - you may not show any signs of ageing, but when you're not exempt from your race's lifespan.

But the druid is still alive, becoming undead would that not be more like placing yourself in a botched form of suspended animation or Hibernation.

I found the post I was looking for.

Yossarin wrote:

...I again reference the notion of the Pattern: an individual's metaphysical signature that represents body, mind, soul, and carries resonance from the kind of magic they use (usually based on their paradigm). In a way you could consider it your magical DNA.

Let's say your Life pattern when you were born looked like this: W

And then later in life you get your right arm chopped off, and it looks like this: N

The Regeneration spell seeks to restore your life Pattern to the way it is supposed to be. So someone casts regeneration and it will restore your Life pattern to: W

Unless, of course, you have accepted in your head the fact that you have no arm anymore (mental), made peace with the phantom feeling of it being gone (spiritual - I often suggest that the whole feeling of a phantom limb people experience is a sign of the Pattern, you feeling what it wants to be but isn't), or possibly intentionally flayed your arm (magical paradigm - Palemaster), and then your natural pattern becomes: N

Regeneration will always restore it to N, rather than W.

Let's say you are BORN without a limb. That means when you're born, your pattern is N. I have always rationalized that people born with physical defects can never have them healed. Clerics can rationalize that this is because that is the way the gods willed them to be. Arcanists can use the Pattern example.

Either way, what this interpretation does is justifies the fact that the individual player can rule whether or not his or her scars and wounds and maimings are affected by healing or regeneration or restoration magics. If the player rules that his character has wholly accepted whatever he or she has lost (or in creepier instances, gained), then the player can legitimately say those spells won't work and really stick it to those assholes who non-chalantly tell you you can go get a fixer-upper with a cleric (I despise it when people do that, and I have seen it a lot in Amia).

And to cut off a question about babies: I envision that a baby forming in a mother's womb does have its own Pattern forming in an overlay. It remains separate from the mother's and this is why you can't cast regenerate on a mother to affect a baby inside of her. And why mothers can die while babies still live in their wombs for a short time. Unfortunately, conservatives would appreciate my interpretation here.

Following that logic too a degree, If I did not belive I have been aging because I have been in a form that can't age, would I not revert back to my age befor hand because my magical DNA says so?.

The fact that someone who has died of old age can't have their soul restored to a body with any magic (possible exception: deific power). The fact that a druid with timeless body suffers no deterioration from age, and yet magically drops dead at the end of a decidedly arbitrary (and yet race-appropriate) "lifespan". Note that in real life, ageing is a function of bodily deterioration. In theory you can't die of old age if you don't suffer this deterioration. But in D&D you still die. These facts both seem to indicate that the age of a soul is linked to the ultimate lifespan of a creature.

Should be able to find all of that in the PHB.

Re; Yoss's Pattern theory, you should probably elaborate on your interpretation and reasoning before a proper response can be made to it.

serbiris wrote:

The fact that someone who has died of old age can't have their soul restored to a body with any magic (possible exception: deific power). The fact that a druid with timeless body suffers no deterioration from age, and yet magically drops dead at the end of a decidedly arbitrary (and yet race-appropriate) "lifespan". Note that in real life, ageing is a function of bodily deterioration. In theory you can't die of old age if you don't suffer this deterioration. But in D&D you still die. These facts both seem to indicate that the age of a soul is linked to the ultimate lifespan of a creature.

Should be able to find all of that in the PHB.

Re; Yoss's Pattern theory, you should probably elaborate on your interpretation and reasoning before a proper response can be made to it.

Quote:

After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.

When I read timeless body I dont read it as "We dont age, then we drop dead at random."
I read it more like how d20srd has it writen down "they are immune to the drawbacks of aging, not that they stop aging"

I would stand by the fact that aging is physical based off the lifeform, and nothing to do with the soul because what about the Clone spell and Temporal Stasis, could you not have a army of clones waiting in stasis and each time you die you revive, and could live for the next 100000 years so thats why I belive the aging soul is incorrect.

So if aging is entirely dependent on a shifer's form, would a vampire with shifter levels die of old age if spending too long in animal forms? If you shifted into something like a mayfly with a lifespan of only days, would you die of old age at mayfly speed?

A person with timeless body still looks older as they age. Monks get it too, that's how you get the wizened old master who stomps you into the ground. You just don't suffer the physical penalties for the old-venerable age categories. Regardless of what form a shifter is in, you still have the same base race, and are still limited by that race's lifespan. When it's your time to go, the instant you drop form to reapply your undead shape, you keel over all undignified like. Much better to go like that turtle from Kung Fu Panda and turn into cherry blossoms that float away on the wind.

"Make sure... someone keeps standing on the bridge in Caraigh... Caraigh..... Caraigh......... Caraigh.........

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

Regardless of what form a shifter is in, you still have the same base race, and are still limited by that race's lifespan. When it's your time to go, the instant you drop form to reapply your undead shape, you keel over all undignified like.

I dont see why this would not work as I become the race of "undead" so how can one age as a human during times when they are not such.

also small sidetack about aging and preventing it something on FR wiki comes to mind "Artemis Entreri, having previously stolen the life-force of a Shadovar, now appears to have reversed age a full decade, and his aging has slowed considerably. It is likely that he will now live as long as an elf or dwarf would." thats from his Vampiric Dagger I assume that could suck the life force of the victim and use it to heal the wielder. that sounds like Vampiric regeneration to me, does that mean Vamp regen will reverse ones age?

corypx wrote:

I dont see why this would not work as I become the race of "undead" so how can one age as a human during times when they are not such.

Just because the game allows you to take the form of an undead being for an amount of time doesn't mean the clock isn't still ticking. It would say "You age as if you were a creature of the type you shifted into" or something similar if that's how it worked.

corypx wrote:

also small sidetack about aging and preventing it something on FR wiki comes to mind "Artemis Entreri, having previously stolen the life-force of a Shadovar, now appears to have reversed age a full decade, and his aging has slowed considerably. It is likely that he will now live as long as an elf or dwarf would." thats from his Vampiric Dagger I assume that could suck the life force of the victim and use it to heal the wielder. that sounds like Vampiric regeneration to me, does that mean Vamp regen will reverse ones age?

The dagger is a very, very extremely specific, and is not at all the baseline for all weapons that steal life force. It's an author taking liberties. Most weapons that offer vampiric regen or steal life-force do not state that you get younger at all. Blackrazor, Life-drinker, the Nine-Lives-Stealer, etc, do not say anything about making you younger, they just invigorate you temporarily.

You ignored my question, Cory.

I'll repeat it, since I think it illustrates the flaw in your logic.

If a shifer ages at the rate native to whatever form she's wearing at the moment, why don't you age faster when in animal form? Canines only live a dozen years or so; why doesn't a druid who spends significant time in wolf shape age seven times faster than a human who doesn't shapeshift at all?

corypx wrote:

I would stand by the fact that aging is physical based off the lifeform, and nothing to do with the soul because what about the Clone spell and Temporal Stasis, could you not have a army of clones waiting in stasis and each time you die you revive, and could live for the next 100000 years so thats why I belive the aging soul is incorrect.

If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.

Mmhm. Its because ultimately, you're only entering the body of the undead. I used the world "Soul" pretty loosely, just to describe the actual inner being that the shifter possesses, rather than the form he's in.

Serbiris supplied the explanation of the soul stuffs.

And as for the Druid timeless body-- It is precisely that. A timeless body. It shows no physical features of aging, then drops dead when its soul/mind/essence finally reaches its time. It wouldn't make any sense at all to say, "She only doesn't receive any drawbacks because of age." Think about this-- If a druid still physically ages, but doesn't receive any drawbacks, how does that even work? Let's say her strength didn't disappear, and she was still as quick as she would have been-- But what about her looks? Her sagging features, her older face. How would you explain how she no longer loses Charisma? There's a lot that happens when a body physically ages.

So it isn't that the druid still appears like its aging but doesn't suffer drawbacks. It just doesn't appear to age at all.
~~~

And this is directly relevant to a shifter. Because he's not -actually- undead. He's taken an undead body (But a shifter doesn't define himself by his body, that's how he's able to shift). So he lives in the same way as a druid with timeless body. Now, if he sought to actually -become- the undead, well, that might be a different story. But he certainly ages while in a form.

corypx wrote:

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

Regardless of what form a shifter is in, you still have the same base race, and are still limited by that race's lifespan. When it's your time to go, the instant you drop form to reapply your undead shape, you keel over all undignified like.

I dont see why this would not work as I become the race of "undead" so how can one age as a human during times when they are not such.

This, also. You don't actually become an undead. You assume the body of an undead. The soul ages separately. You become an "Undead" in NWN, because its the the best way we can give you proper immunities. These immunities come from only the -body- of the Undead, and as the shifter can assume its body, it attains these immunities.

Okay, Druids get a pass, but that's totally how monks work.

How else can we have proper Sifu?

Also, charisma isn't tied to physical appearance. You only gain charisma as you become older.

Shifter Roleplaying: How, why and When?

Who is online