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Astronomy Question
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62160		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kalecgos [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 16:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Astronomy Question
Regarding the Forgotten Realms, what are the astronomical beliefs? Do they believe everything revolves around Toril or does Toril revolve around a sun? Are the existence of other planets known? Are there any known constellations?

Also, what form of paper is needed for the job? Is it Empty Pages and an Empty Tome or just regular old Papyrus?
Author:  Proletariat [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 16:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Empty Pages. They're made with Papyrus by Scribes at Writing Desks, by Millers with Logs at a Windmill or Barrelstalk at a Tredmill [sic], and with Leather by a Tanner at a Curing Trough.

As far as I can tell, the information here is still accurate despite that site's 4th Ed overhaul.
Author:  Yossarin [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 17:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Kalecgos wrote:
Regarding the Forgotten Realms, what are the astronomical beliefs? Do they believe everything revolves around Toril or does Toril revolve around a sun?


The highly educated and most magicians, as well, espouse geocentrism. Since the intelligent elite are dominated primarily by magi, who have a vested interest in putting their Selves (Egos) at the center of the universe, geocentrism just makes sense. Heliocentrism hasn't been suggested in any serious fashion, but there are probably many other wild theories, like stars are portals to strange realms and the black space between them the playground of Shar, or strange, dark beings.

Quote:
Are the existence of other planets known?


Not to anyone who would be a PC.

Quote:
Are there any known constellations?


Yes.
Author:  Kalecgos [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 17:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Thanks for the answers. I'll use this knowledge in Valignatir's astronomical research so I know where to start.
Author:  Kudark [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 18:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Quote:
Quote:
Are the existence of other planets known?


Not to anyone who would be a PC.


Unless said PC found a portal to Greyhawk, Krynn, or Ravenloft, which several of mine have done. Some view these realms as other planets. It's easy enough to tell you're not in Kansas anymore when the star patterns in the night sky are not remotely close to what they should be.
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 18:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/stars.htm

The info at the bottom regarding the 4 visible planets is from the Realmspace part of Spelljammer (A lot of that page is tbh), which is not quite realmslore but...near as damn it. Its an intersetting setting. Personally I think the idea that there are things other than stars vaguely visible in the night sky is an interesting point of debate.
Author:  Yossarin [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 18:19 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Kudark wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are the existence of other planets known?


Not to anyone who would be a PC.


Unless said PC found a portal to Greyhawk, Krynn, or Ravenloft, which several of mine have done. Some view these realms as other planets. It's easy enough to tell you're not in Kansas anymore when the star patterns in the night sky are not remotely close to what they should be.


You do not get to dictate exclusions. Your example is suspected, which is fine. The player asked whether they are known, to which the answer is no. I answered it the way I did for a reason.
Author:  Burningoutbright [ Sat, Nov 12 2011, 19:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Someone should change the description of the book you get for the Astrologer job then. It mentions planets, galaxies, stars, etc. It's pretty misleading.
Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 16:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
I think yoss has the best explaination really, its down to interpretation =)

from what I gather from old questions in the lore thread, amia's setting is toril in planescape without space voyaging wooden ships (I could be wrong but im -fairly- sure thats why some DM's refuse to merge realmscape with amia too much.)

from an icly standpoint its a well known fact that toril has a moon =) you could say thats one place to start on objects orbiting planets in this setting, the rest is no small matter for debate =D not to mention, the forgotten realms, all of the planes even are somewhat magical in nature, so as well as black holes? possibly, there may even be magical based phenomena in space.

the best answer your going to find to the question is through RP, also mentioned magic but the divine has alot to do with the layout of things or so it appears. deep deep subject is space in dnd >_>
Author:  Kalecgos [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 16:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
I have gotten all the answers I need from this thread. Please lock, thank you.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 17:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Planets(Glyth, Karpri, Chandos) =/= Universes(Greyhawk, Eberron).

But I'm surprised, Yoss, the dictate is that there is no PC knowledge of other planets? I thought the knowledge would be fleeting, but we do have PC's from Shou Lung and well-read folk.
Author:  Silent2001 [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 18:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Greyhawk, Ravenloft (which is a demiplane, I believe) and Kryn are other realms and exsist in their own universe, like stated above. Hence the term "multiverse" that gets thrown around a lot in the planes, when you travel through portals in Sigil you don't (as far as I know) go to other planets, you go to other planes and alternate universes.
Author:  Mobile Khytty [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 18:59 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
*flail!* Not going to do what I usually do and quote from a sourcebook because doing that on a cell phone is just tedious.

However! If you have the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting sourcebook, have a gander at pages 230-231. It tells about Selune (as in the moon), eclipses, Selune's lunar phases (there's a full moon every 30 days, 10 hours and 30 minutes, for instance!), and the Tears of Selune.

It also has (very minimal) information on the Dawn Heralds (two "stars" that are actually planets - much like our own Venus and Mars were once thought of as stars until we learned better), and the Five Wanderers (more "stars" that are planets in Toril's solar system).

It doesn't go into anything about Toril's sun, however, or people's beliefs of what revolves around what. I like Yoss's explanation of that. :)
Author:  LoveLossHopeRepeat [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 19:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Mobile Khytty wrote:
*flail!* Not going to do what I usually do and quote from a sourcebook because doing that on a cell phone is just tedious.

However! If you have the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting sourcebook, have a gander at pages 230-231. It tells about Selune (as in the moon), eclipses, Selune's lunar phases (there's a full moon every 30 days, 10 hours and 30 minutes, for instance!), and the Tears of Selune.

It also has (very minimal) information on the Dawn Heralds (two "stars" that are actually planets - much like our own Venus and Mars were once thought of as stars until we learned better), and the Five Wanderers (more "stars" that are planets in Toril's solar system).

It doesn't go into anything about Toril's sun, however, or people's beliefs of what revolves around what. I like Yoss's explanation of that. :)


To add to this, I found this quite helpful when playing my own astronomer. It even talks of astronomers in the past and how their research dated back to like. Hundreds and hundreds of years back.
Author:  Yossarin [ Mon, Nov 14 2011, 22:19 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
Dark Immolation wrote:
Planets(Glyth, Karpri, Chandos) =/= Universes(Greyhawk, Eberron).

But I'm surprised, Yoss, the dictate is that there is no PC knowledge of other planets? I thought the knowledge would be fleeting, but we do have PC's from Shou Lung and well-read folk.


That's how it is until you convince me otherwise, and only for your own PC. So far, no one has the cranial capacity to do so.

Hint: Quoting source material can't increase the size of a pea brain.
Author:  Glyph [ Tue, Nov 15 2011, 4:21 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
regarding sigil, there are portals to everything, the problem is portals in sigil don't work the same as on toril. infact toril's portals are different than most of the multiverse. -and- amia specifically has different portal systems still >_> I won't get into that though, afaik its an ongoing dm storyline =)

obviously its good to take non-FR source with a pinch of salt but I'd highly recommend planescape, planewalkers handbook for gorthy and also anyone with or planning a plane hopping munchkin =3 (I think 'be vague' is a good idea also, primes are clueless after all ;) )

regarding planets...I think some wizard folk have discussed the subject at least once, and its not an unknown subject, but your average zombie slaying knight of that realm isn't going to know much if anything about them, if they have at all considered the possibility of other planets/primes, let alone 'alien races' which is an entire subject in itself, and has no simple answer either.

thinking on the matter of the sun, and selune, source may not directly mention the sun but the gods do, slightly back to my earlyer point about the divine and the layout of the multiverse..

I forget where I read this also but I thought ravenloft had nearly if not zero outgoing portals. oddly other primes are more rare than other planes, which some of are accessable within the amia setting.

ed: I remember now the part of realmscape that is most avoided in the amia setting, and which I agree with muchly...spelljammer =/
Author:  --Phantom-- [ Tue, Nov 15 2011, 13:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
My Sigilian ended up on Amia after being given a deep dip by some cross-trading knight of the post and he's given the Cage the laugh ever since. Anyway, he doesn't pretend to know much about the geography or, I guess, cosmology of the Prime itself. His perception is that it's just another infinitely large plane (or it's sufficiently large enough to be immeasurable). As was mentioned before, the concept of the 'multiverse' is a fairly commonly known one for those who would have cause to know about such things, but knowing about 'planets' as distinct celestial bodies in the same way that we know about them IRL is another thing entirely. If asked to weigh in on such things, he would remark that different planets are just separate locations on the same plane. I don't think he would quickly grasp the concept of discrete planets at all.
Author:  Alkor [ Wed, Nov 16 2011, 8:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
How about Aber and Toril. One is ruled by the ancient primordials, and the other by the gods. Is this information available IC? We have primordials who stayed behind and fought on the side of the gods, such as the betrayer.
Author:  Glyph [ Wed, Nov 16 2011, 8:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Astronomy Question
its a bit of a pain what 'wizards of' did to that part of the storyline in 4th ed cause I can't link the FR wiki on that subject (its terribly full of 4th ed cheese.)

cutting out said cheese, the 4 active and remaining primordials that can access toril are the elementals (akadi kossuth grumbar istishia) the story goes something like...(ed: there wern't always only 4.)

Ao created the multiverse, made two hawt chicks of opposite intentions light and dark >_> they started fighting, more gods occured? from the fighting, abir-toril comes into existance, some gods/people? don't like the extremes happening so the world was split in two metaphysically by the gods and primordials.

or something to that effect >_> is this avaliable icly? technically yes to an extent, in books, in temples, in the horror lurking behind every good aligned characters smile =) (I assume same theory as IRL mass collective amnesia of world shattering events. like the deluge for example.)

not all of the info would be immediatly known to characters icly imho, and your also bound to see variances on the theme, one reason I wrote the above fairly vaguely in this case.
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