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| Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical boons https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60088 |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 18:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical boons |
So, i've recently been playing some clerics testing out the death domain summons for the respective alignments. While leveling incredibly fast (soloing) I came to the realization that its possibly too much of a boon that clerics (and to a certain extent other casting classes) get to run around with +5 enchanted weapons, armor, shields etc etc especially seeing how many extra mythal slots it frees up. Personally, i'm of the opinion that all these spells should be capped at +4. That puts everyone (almost) in the same boat when it comes to epic loot. For example, my cleric came across the mace called "kneecapper" and thought..."hmm, +5 vs giants...that would be really quite useful...if i couldn't cast GMW. Sucks to be a fighter". PS: and no, im not just looking to nerf things. That why I put this in general discussion and not improving amia. PPS: Whats the deal with the ability pages for the BOT. It doesnt seem very useful. Couldn't the mass bulls strength etc etc just be added as extra spells instead of the page? |
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| Author: | Selmak [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 18:36 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Well then for sure, they would be at a much higher spell level than 2. |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 18:38 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Selmak wrote: Well then for sure, they would be at a much higher spell level than 2. Absolutely. I'd be all for that. |
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| Author: | jafman30 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 19:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
While I would probably enjoy this, that would encourage more people to hunt because suddenly the every cleric lacks what is considered a good enough weapon. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, despite it drastically changing the economy. Then not only do fighters have to fight other melee classes for these good weapons, they have to fight clerics. That would suck. |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 19:51 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
I actually think that such a change, for GMW at least, would hurt meleers more than it would casters. Think about it. Clerics have more than a single spell for AB and damage boosts, for the most part, they wouldn't miss 1 ab and damage. Mages usually don't cast GMW on themselves, but instead their party members and their summons. They really won't miss it that much either. Meleers on the other hand will find it very hard. Now for them to overcome creature DR, Premonition, and the Stoneskins, they have to have a +5 weapon. Either epic loot, or a crafted one(which since it requires a Flawless mythal is still epic). There'd be no other way around it since scrolls would be capped at +4 too, and even your caster buddies couldn't up your weapon. Kneecappers and things are the exception, but that's only good for one racial type. I doubt meleers would find the usability of one weapon going up worth the usability of every single non-epic on going down. |
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| Author: | hendrack [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 20:05 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Who's going to buff the meleers until they farm their shiny +5 loot? |
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| Author: | Feonir [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 20:19 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Something else that inherently makes mages stronger, no thanks, unless we were also going to lower prem and all the other DR spells to a +4 cap as well. |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 20:23 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
+4 Cap would be nice. +5 GMW actually makes weapon/armor requests unbalanced to. Leave it up to the Australian balance monkey. |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 20:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Dark Immolation wrote: I actually think that such a change, for GMW at least, would hurt meleers more than it would casters. Think about it. Clerics have more than a single spell for AB and damage boosts, for the most part, they wouldn't miss 1 ab and damage. Mages usually don't cast GMW on themselves, but instead their party members and their summons. They really won't miss it that much either. Meleers on the other hand will find it very hard. Now for them to overcome creature DR, Premonition, and the Stoneskins, they have to have a +5 weapon. Either epic loot, or a crafted one(which since it requires a Flawless mythal is still epic). There'd be no other way around it since scrolls would be capped at +4 too, and even your caster buddies couldn't up your weapon. Kneecappers and things are the exception, but that's only good for one racial type. I doubt meleers would find the usability of one weapon going up worth the usability of every single non-epic on going down. Hmm...some good thoughts there. +1ab/dmg is always significant, at least in my book. Every little bit counts. As for clerics being able to stack ab sky high, well, thats always irked me (and could be remedied at least partially by capping divine favour to +3 at level 30 - its a first level spell after all and would still be awesomely good). Dexer meleers would find it hard i agree but then they always do (unless combined with rogue or some other means to up their damage). Any decent strength based meleer cuts right through stoneskin and greater stoneskin IMO. Minor annoyances. Even premonition is not unbeatable (irritating when combined with improved invis like the yaunti mystics do but there are ways around the concealment bonus). Now, if you have a buddy also hacking away like you do in a party, it becomes a moot point. Thing is, I'm not even just talking about GMW (though it probably is the one that gives the biggest impact). Greater magic vestments, shield of faith, barkskin, shadow shield could all be included. |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 20:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Feonir wrote: Something else that inherently makes mages stronger, no thanks, unless we were also going to lower prem and all the other DR spells to a +4 cap as well. And then we'll be back at square one, except that everyone now has 1 AB less than before. Mages and clerics still don't miss a think, mind you, they don't live or die by AB, like meleers. The stuff about Magic Vestment I can see, but even with +4 AC only, I don't see clerics minding much. You can get a lot of more worthwhile stuff for the cost of one slot than 1 AC. As far as the balancing thing, I thought we already took into account that clerics could add +5 to their armor into account. I remember it coming up in Request a while back, something to the tune of "Don't worry, we know the PC is a cleric with Magic Vestment." If anything, +5 on weapons or armor is more for convenience rather than power. The convenience of being able to whip it out without casting ready to go, and as well saving you a spellslot. Edit: Well, the same goes for the AC spells too. +4 on Shadow Shield, I know my mage isn't going to shift their whole equipment set up so they can get a hold of a +5 Ammy. It's just not worth it. And 1 less AC, okay, well now my Mestil's Sheathe gets more use too, I guess. Barkskin, well, do I want a free slot, or to take up my whole Necklace place for 1 AC. Same with Shield of Faith and Prot ring +5. Yeah, it would downgrade them, but it's not hurting any caster that much and it's not making meleers any better off. |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:00 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Realistically mestils would be used just as much - the spell does do ludicrous damage afterall...its not like it needed a page either just in case one happened to resist acid but im digressing. If anything, the one less AC makes them slightly easier to hit with regards to stoneskin...until EMA kicks in lol, |
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| Author: | Uncle-Opustus [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:05 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
+1/5CL 5: +2 10: +3 15: +4 20: +5 |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:06 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Well EMA is a interesting thing too. For mages, so what Shadow Shield would be +4? Already gets overridden by EMA. So...yeah, little point. There aren't many mages that get high enough to use Shadow Shield that don't go all the way to get EMA too. |
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| Author: | Uberuce [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Raise the ambush percentage to 2 or 3 minimum inside any zone with spawns. Problem solved. |
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| Author: | Uncle-Opustus [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:16 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
The cow does it better. |
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| Author: | hendrack [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 21:22 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Discuss clerics after the new domains are in. Pointless now. Also, +5 buffs come into account when requesting custom weapons and armor, look at the request threads. GMW and favor is now spread oud to reward taking more caster levels. Casters going 21+ should have +5 otherwise it's a joke for all those builds that got shafted. |
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| Author: | Glyph [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 22:02 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Quote: Casters going 21+ should have +5 otherwise it's a joke for all those builds that got shafted. seconded. similar to the hide doesn't work because polymorph thing, if you take 21+ levels of a class you sure as heck don't want a scroll out-performing your magic. theres your balance. rant done/ ed: to be fair to balance, gmw does mean you could boost an +4 weapon that also has keen and all the other bonuses you'd expect a wm to have on their weapon, but the caster themselves are unlikely to gain this much benefit, this means if you happen across a dedicated caster you could improve on this by +1 and gain all the benefits of the magic, managing the same solo would seam to unbalance some aspects of the spell, but i've always viewed similar spells as party buffs. I hope that explains my view here, I feel my initial comment may have come across more of an outburst than a valid point. |
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| Author: | ainjyll [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 22:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
If you lower everything to a +4 max, you end up doing nothing as everyone will still be on the same level... except for those people who have had enough time or strong enough builds to bossfarm for their epic loot or trade off what they did manage to find for what they need. This "fix" only helps bossfarmers as they'd be the only one's with +5 gear. |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 23:15 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Uberuce wrote: Raise the ambush percentage to 2 or 3 minimum inside any zone with spawns. Problem solved. Desperately needed...desperately. I'd go as far as to say 5%. |
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| Author: | DerkDerkistan [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 1:27 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
This is the most ridiculous topic I've ever read. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 1:55 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Feonir wrote: Something else that inherently makes mages stronger, no thanks, unless we were also going to lower prem and all the other DR spells to a +4 cap as well. He makes a good point, alot of spells would become overly powerful if none could get the +5 to go through them |
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| Author: | ILoveIceCream [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 2:55 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Demented Doctor wrote: Feonir wrote: Something else that inherently makes mages stronger, no thanks, unless we were also going to lower prem and all the other DR spells to a +4 cap as well. He makes a good point, alot of spells would become overly powerful if none could get the +5 to go through them you can get +5, it's call sure strike gear |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 3:06 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
ILoveIceCream wrote: Demented Doctor wrote: Feonir wrote: Something else that inherently makes mages stronger, no thanks, unless we were also going to lower prem and all the other DR spells to a +4 cap as well. He makes a good point, alot of spells would become overly powerful if none could get the +5 to go through them you can get +5, it's call sure strike gear Thats nice, as several people have pointed out that would only be befitting the bossfarners. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 8:25 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Congrats, you win Worst Topic Of The Week. |
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| Author: | Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 10:20 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Greater Magic Weapon, shield of faith & other magical bo |
Fair enough. I won't get personal. I still think the ability BoT page is silly. |
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