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Familiars and Companions.
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Author:  MoshingChris [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 18:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Familiars and Companions.
GreatPidge and I are working on an update for familiars and companions with the intent to remove the current companions and familiars buffing script.

Also and in addition with the release of our next HAK pack we have decided to give some love to the evil guys and added a Spider and Undead familiar.

The reason I'm giving information out pre-release is that the Spider and Undead familiar will not be ready in time when the HAK goes in. You should be able to take the familiars, but they will be bland, basic and unpowered until we are finished with the entire familiars and companions lines.

What does this mean for you the player:

- Familiars and Companion roles will become even more varied and diversified then they currently are.
- All familiars will be useful in their assigned roles
- All Companions will be useful in their assigned roles
- Some Characters may see a marked reduction in the combat effectiveness of their companions as they are balanced in regards to the removal of the script.

I will be giving an indepth post in the Rules & Lore section the day of release of the Companions and Familiars so questions and discussion aren't really required.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 19:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Finally!

Will the undead familiar be available to all mages or a nice boon for going palemaster?
Author:  MoshingChris [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 19:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Available to all mages. The Boon for going Palemaster is your Palemaster undead spell likes.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 19:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Just dont make en squishy? Anything but squishy....!
Weak, ugly, slow, dumb - just dont let em get oneshotted by everything
Author:  speedgrab [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 19:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
I woulld like to ask, would people who say, have a undead based familiar, be able to change their skinned one over?

I will say from my own opinion, it is annoying at times such as when healing or turning comes into play, though i understand if youl need to re-request.

Edit: oh just read the bit at the bottom, eager me is showing again. ignore this!
Author:  Xenos [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 20:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Ooo.. totally excited, though i have a feeling Pixie is going to be one of the less effective in combat ones.

I have a feeling that unless True Sight is removed, we will still see 90% pussyododragons.

Oh right no questions *removes his question*
Author:  MoshingChris [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 20:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
speedgrab wrote:
I woulld like to ask, would people who say, have a undead based familiar, be able to change their skinned one over?

I will say from my own opinion, it is annoying at times such as when healing or turning comes into play, though i understand if youl need to re-request.

Edit: oh just read the bit at the bottom, eager me is showing again. ignore this!


This falls under the "Mosh wont charge you to move a undead skin onto an undead familiar rule".

I don't speak for the rest of the team.
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 20:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Maybe it is simply the BG 2 binge I have been on, but I'd love it if say pixies or dragons (assuming TS gets the boot) were able to influence the 'gold' acquisition or that. Something akin to the cat Familiar in BG2 doubling as a 'cat' burglar/pick pocket... But either way! Yay flavor!
Author:  Charles1810 [ Mon, Jul 18 2011, 21:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
So the undead is finally the closest for a reskin construct! *Dances* Right? :cry:
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 12:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Maybe there will be construct ones? And perhaps elemental for those druids that are elementarists?
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 13:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
MoshingChris wrote:
Available to all mages. The Boon for going Palemaster is your Palemaster undead spell likes.


hmm...*ponders for a sec*...that is one lousy boon.
Author:  jimbono1 [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 13:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Yay, now i can have my Skeleton familiar as an actual undead thing. I'm so happy.
Author:  Lord-Hadeis [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 13:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
I hope it also will include useless familiars and companions when it comes to combat. Some people just like to have some silly little house cat or mouse or something without having to have to spend dc's to resize them.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 14:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Guh. . .
Quote:
Spider and Undead familiar
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 15:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Chris! Give us small robots too!
Wheeee!!!
Author:  Demented Doctor [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 17:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
I know it said no questions here buuut, just wondering for those of us who have either Boar or Bear companion will those loose their tanking ability now?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 19:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
That's not being answered.
Author:  P Three [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 19:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
I have to say, the idea of unbuffed familiars makes me cringe. Unless that's being changed rather than dropped entirely.

One of the things I've always liked best about Amia (because I generally suck at combat) is that the familiars are actually /useful/. When I'm lvl 3, I have a familiar that can actually help me level, rather than taking a hit and poofing.
Author:  Demented Doctor [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 20:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
AxlLeigh wrote:
I have to say, the idea of unbuffed familiars makes me cringe. Unless that's being changed rather than dropped entirely.

One of the things I've always liked best about Amia (because I generally suck at combat) is that the familiars are actually /useful/. When I'm lvl 3, I have a familiar that can actually help me level, rather than taking a hit and poofing.


I agree with this, the first post said that the current buffs were being removed. Those were pretty much the only thing that made most of the animal companions and familiars worth having. I know there are RP reasons to have certain companions and such, but it's reasonable for players to want companions and familiars that can do something in combat seeing as that's what their meant for.
Author:  PaladinOfSune [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 20:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
There seems to be some misinterpretation going on here.

The base familiar/companion buff script is being removed so we can better balance each summon to their roles without having to worry about a flat general script being applied too.

They're not being weakened.
Author:  P Three [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 20:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
That's why I put in the "Unless that's being changed rather than dropped entirely." :P I don't pretend to understand how the balancers work, I can barely open toolset, so. XD
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 21:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
PaladinOfSune wrote:
There seems to be some misinterpretation going on here.

The base familiar/companion buff script is being removed so we can better balance each summon to their roles without having to worry about a flat general script being applied too.

They're not being weakened.


That's a shame they're not being weakened. The familiar's do more than "help you level". Combined with a summon, they allow you to solo to mid teens at least with no danger to yourself whatsoever.

A nice penalty to the caster if they die would be cool instead of the paltry 1d6 hp.
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Tue, Aug 09 2011, 23:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Blackdragon12121 wrote:
A nice penalty to the caster if they die would be cool instead of the paltry 1d6 hp.

That'd be interesting... but that may be built in to NWN.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 0:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
"Cool" and "necessarily a good thing" are two different things.

It would be "cool" if you could actually catch your Familiars or companions from the wild.In some sort of red and white sphere. And every animal said only its own name.

But to be serious, although I see no direct need for it, it wouldn't be the most horrible thing. Just as long as the penalties are either relatively minor or temporary. There's a reason why they're familiars and not Pact-Beasts like from Drakengard.
Author:  Selvec Darkon [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 1:14 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
To be a master! Familar master! I will be fighting, to be the greatest master!
Author:  P Three [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 4:06 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
hooooly flashback, batman.
Author:  Charles1810 [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 4:41 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Are the changes going to be anything to flashy? Hoping to do a reskin soon, and wanting the skin n base familiar to cooperate. Like how the air summon for the mummy dust is vanilla enough to not cause to many issues with a reskin to fire.
Author:  DerkDerkistan [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 4:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
They've said the only new familiars they're adding are spiders and undead. Everything else will look the same, but act different.
Author:  Charles1810 [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 4:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
DerkDerkistan wrote:
They've said the only new familiars they're adding are spiders and undead. Everything else will look the same, but act different.


I know but like the undead having an aura of neg energy be awkward if reskinned into a elemental.
Author:  BlackestAtrocity [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 4:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Thank you for this.. x 1000

1. I very much want an Undead Familiar..

2. It will be so refreshing not seeing every Arcane user running around with a Cat or Dragon..
Author:  phalanxyrian [ Wed, Aug 10 2011, 10:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Well a cat would be nice.. A house cat, or a rat, weasel, toad. You know actual familiars instead of dangerous animals. Altough I would love shocker lizards.
Author:  tsukasa1991 [ Tue, Aug 16 2011, 18:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
i would have liked to see a familiar for every creature type for the purpose of those who have reskinned familiars with now unsupported types. luckily i imagine undead is a big chunk of that but couldent spider which is an animal or vermin i dont remember, be replaced by an elemental? also i am very very happy to see that each familiar will have its own usefulness because as of now your choices are
pick the pseudo for inifi bioware truesights
pick the panther for soloing (10d6 sneaks plus darkness plus any other summon = redic)
pick the pixie for open locks
or pick something else for flavour.

i have a hell hound and would LOVE to see him be useful for something other than rp, even if it was just a buff to his skills. The combat thing i dont care about as it is -useless- in combat nearly everywhere but starter areas.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 8:27 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Yeah, thanks, we're pretty much aware.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 10:28 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
An elemental as a familiar...*shakes head*

I'm not even a fan of an undead familiar. Seems to be moving away from the core concept of a familiar and towards simply 'a second summon' territory *shrugs*

They're not animal companions after all. I'd be moving more towards PnP-esque familiars.
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 10:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
A Mephit is more or less an Elemental Familiar. Doesn't quite have the same racial type, I think they are outsiders, but its very close. The immunities are missing, though. But they don't matter much, on flavour terms. Especially considering Mephits are awesomely cool.

It would be nice if Druid/Ranger could also get an otherworldy companion too, I guess. There's an elemental angle there, too. Probably a little late for that now.
Author:  Pony [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 11:21 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Rats, cats, snakes, toads, and some such would be awesome!
Author:  Magiros [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 11:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
In PnP you can get small air elemental as your familiar. Requires certain feats but still. Even, you can turn with your familiar into elemental beings, if I recall right. Just something where my character in DnD FR is headed.

Plus you can craft your familiar, undead familiar, even contrtucts. If I remember right there is something about this in Libris Mortis, too lazy to check out where they were.

Have to say though: Finaly. I love this change. Thank you.
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 11:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Phearnun wrote:
Rats, cats, snakes, toads, and some such would be awesome!


This is what i'm talking about!
Author:  Pony [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 11:23 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Blackdragon12121 wrote:
Phearnun wrote:
Rats, cats, snakes, toads, and some such would be awesome!


This is what i'm talking about!


Oh, and a rabbit a mage can pull out of his hat!
Author:  colanah [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 13:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
*hopes the hawk will be buffable* Watching the deer take Blade Thirst but the hawk not be able to was both amusing and perplexing. I think the deer laughed, I'm not sure.
Author:  BlackestAtrocity [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 16:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Blackdragon12121 wrote:
They're not animal companions after all. I'd be moving more towards PnP-esque familiars.


What about this?


Stitched Flesh Familiar [General]


Stitched Flesh Familiar
When you are ready and able to acquire a new familiar, you may choose to gain a stitched flesh familiar.

Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, ability to cast three or more necromancy spells.

Benefit: When choosing a familiar, you may choose a stitched flesh familiar. A stitched flesh familiar appears similar to any of the standard familiars available in the Player's Handbook, except that the stitched flesh familiar is obviously sewn together from many different creatures of that kind, and to a practiced eye, is undead.
Author:  Gunz [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 16:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:
It would be nice if Druid/Ranger could also get an otherworldy companion too, I guess. There's an elemental angle there, too. Probably a little late for that now.


Nononononono! Animal companion is very specific. No outsiders, no magical beasts, no elementals, no undead, etc. Only animals.
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Wed, Aug 17 2011, 17:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:
-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:
It would be nice if Druid/Ranger could also get an otherworldy companion too, I guess. There's an elemental angle there, too. Probably a little late for that now.


Nononononono! Animal companion is very specific. No outsiders, no magical beasts, no elementals, no undead, etc. Only animals.


Oh, psh. There's room for variety. There's bound to be a bajillion different feats to alter the ability to so that they give different kinds of companions. Scattered throughout Masters of the Wild and such. I mean, theyve got Dinosaurs and Dragons in NWN2?

But I suppose its more for reskin material for specific types of character, Archon style and whatnot, than opening it up for every John Q. Treehugger to have a Tiny Water Elemental for a companion.
Author:  Gunz [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 0:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
NWN2 isn't canon though. Also, Dinosaurs -are- animals, that's why you can take them.

Trust me, I own pretty much every Druid/Ranger/nature D&D book there is to own. There are no feats. Animal companions are supposed to be animals, not outsiders, or anything else. Druids and Rangers have spells to summon magical beasts and elementals.

The only exception I've ever seen made was for that lame Drow from those terrible Drow books. They made a lot of exceptions for that guy though.
Author:  tsukasa1991 [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 0:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
i dont think having familiars become like in pnp is how nwn is built. i like the idea but i see a lot of things relying on a mages familiar namely the lower levels and leveling. im only speaking an opinion here though because ive only ever known one server that did this and i was on it for all of maybe an hour.
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 1:44 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:
NWN2 isn't canon though. Also, Dinosaurs -are- animals, that's why you can take them.

Trust me, I own pretty much every Druid/Ranger/nature D&D book there is to own. There are no feats. Animal companions are supposed to be animals, not outsiders, or anything else. Druids and Rangers have spells to summon magical beasts and elementals.

The only exception I've ever seen made was for that lame Drow from those terrible Drow books. They made a lot of exceptions for that guy though.



..Come on Gunz. There are so many books. There's a feat or an exception that allows damn near everything. There's Greyguards and Baelnorns and all sorts of wacky shit that someone has conjured up as filler in the books theyve written. And not all of it goes with agreeable principles.

It took me a little longer to find this one than I'd have thought, I'd admit.

Book of Exalted Deeds, page 42. Exalted Companion. "Instead of an animal companion, you have a magical beast of good alignment." Blinkdog, Pegasus, etc.

Not arguing for its inclusion, mind. If its not the way its supposed to be, its not the way its supposed to be. But you threw down the guantlet!
Author:  Liz [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 1:49 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
It's more or less generally agreed, I think, that the books of Exalted Deeds and Vile Darkness are horribly broken, and are useful more for flavor than for mechanics.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 1:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
Elemental =/= Magical Beast. Unearthed Arcana, ED and VD are silly fluff books.

I could add a Magical Beast companion or just you know change the Dire Wolf into a Magical Beast because doubling up on creatures is silly and hard to balance. Wolf and Direwolf is annoying because then I can't grant the Wolf summon Dire Status when it gets into epic for instance.
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 2:19 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
It's a fluff feat. Not something I'll be paying much attention to. But, I had a Ranger with a Blinkdog companion reskin on Amia, once upon a time. Request waved through without a fuss. I don't feel so guilty about it anymore!

I wouldn't bother with a Magical Beast companion. It's probably right that there shouldn't be one.

...If you want to change a wolf (probably be easier to change the normal wolf. Hardly anyone has that, that I see. Shame, its way cooler than its ugly cousin) I'd suggest Stag, rather than anything fancy and magical like a Basilisk or a Manticore. Snake, at a stretch, for a bit of legitimate variety.
Author:  tsukasa1991 [ Thu, Aug 18 2011, 2:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Familiars and Companions.
what about "legendary"?
like at master lvl 30 the summon becomes a legendary creature of its type
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