AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I have been gone for a while (long while, long time...), and upon my return I found Amia still in good shape, which is as great as a fact that my cactus flower did not die during the time I was gone (immortal bastard).

Back to topic, I would like to ask how is it with OOC ress? Especially two situations :

1, I was kidnapped in a forest by bandits. They got killed - am I supposed to raise them, or leave them dead? Because I was told it is a common courtesy to raise dead player after pvp. Is it true?

2, Raising in OOC chamber - I do not know if it is frowned upon, smiled upon or shrug upon, my character will never raise anyone who is dead in OOC starting chamber. Call me paranoid, but I feel the cross-realm (Amia Island / Abroad ((Amia A / Amia B)) ) ressing turned into a sport recently. If you have died before the reset and you are one of the misfortune ones that do not cheat (yeah, I used that word), I am sorry. But OOCly - call me evil - no ress from me. This is more of an information than anything, I just do not want any more "Why you not ress me, d00d?" tells in game - use respawn. Death penalties on Amia are like a kiss from that charming ol' gypsy - unpleasant, but not fatal.

I am quite sure someone will tell you not to specify things that happened etc. Whatever the case though, I don't care about that.

Well for 1) Its not required as people can and will respawn after 5 minutes (Plus with the cooldown on pvp kills do you have to stick around for 5 minutes before making your get away) but it is nice. Yes, its not required but it feels nice.

for 2) People have been abusing that for some time and as far as I recall is there no official stance on that thing. Abuse gets you a delevel though, so if you suspect anyone using the entry way to get free raises screenie and report them. In all the other cases is there no rule against it.

I thought Res was prohibited in the entry room unless right after reset, or server crash.

There is practically no reason to OOC raise someone after you have killed them, unless you intend to transport them somewhere. After 5minutes they can just click respawn and get up themselves, unless your Subdual settings are set differently.

Swapping servers to get free raises i'm pretty sure is against some rules.

All this time I've been under the impression that after PvP a raise was required at all times. Besides, you can raise the bastards for free with the PvP tool if they died in PvP.

What comes to Entry raising, I don't know. I always raise folks there if at all possible.

Its not common courtesy to raise player after PvP.
Its common courtesy to raise players in the entry area.
You are obliged to give OOC raise.
Using PvP tool does not raise them from the dead. It's not a free raise dead scroll.

Gobo-kobo wrote:

You are obliged to give OOC raise.
Using PvP tool does not raise them from the dead. It's not a free raise dead scroll.

Umm... There is no respawn penalty after PvP and with the correct settings the tool does raise them.

I get a feeling this has been answered before? Im sure disco made a comment somewhere... lemme search!

I the OOC raise is just courtesy nowadays, The rule went out the door when the implementation of the No gold/XP loss from pressing respawn was put in.

You should give someone a raise in the entry area, unless they're merely cadging a raise after a misadventure - then it's basically up to you, 'cause they can just run off to the mirror and not compensate you.

Quote:

Its common courtesy to raise players in the entry area.

And that is BS, imho.

After PvP, the winner is not obliged to give an OOC raise to the losers. There was a time when they were as losers didn't respawn for free, but that little issue was handled quite some time ago. Since they can raise on their own automatically after a few minutes with no penalty, there's no reason to apply any rule forcing players to give OOC raises. It is considered nice to do, unless there's a reason for you to leave someone laying on the ground for a few minutes (make good your escape or something like that comes to mind off the top of my head).

Raising in the entry chamber has no official stance. You can do it if you like, but you are under no obligation whatsoever to do so and anyone implying, directly or otherwise, that you are is so full of crap their eyes are brown.

hendrack wrote:

Quote:

Its common courtesy to raise players in the entry area.

And that is BS, imho.

imho it is not.

ainjyll wrote:

After PvP, the winner is not obliged to give an OOC raise to the losers. There was a time when they were as losers didn't respawn for free, but that little issue was handled quite some time ago.

Then i was out of date. I remember that it used to be a case some time ago.

Oh god I looked at the topic and went '-another- friggin raise dead topic?!' Glad to say I am pleased by OP =D

Anyways, for the first question I dunno cause I have never been in PvP, but I think there is no reason that it should be a courtesy. They will be able to respawn anyways so I wouldn't hold it against anyone to leave my body after PvP.

For the latter, I say do it if you feel like it. I have raised many people in the entryway, cause I know things happen and I would like someone to do the same for me (I have, and especially once when I logged in and went 'wtf how am I dead?', that was interesting haha). But the whole 'omgpeoplearecheatingtinfoilhattime' is silly, unless you saw they were on the playerlist and suddenly are in the entryway dead. That screams shenanigans. But if you don't want to, just go IG. I have never once had someone send me a tell after leaving people dead in the entryway. And if they did, I would just laugh at them for being silly.

Silvarus wrote:

Gobo-kobo wrote:

You are obliged to give OOC raise.
Using PvP tool does not raise them from the dead. It's not a free raise dead scroll.

Umm... There is no respawn penalty after PvP and with the correct settings the tool does raise them.

Very_Svensk wrote:

I get a feeling this has been answered before? Im sure disco made a comment somewhere... lemme search!

I the OOC raise is just courtesy nowadays, The rule went out the door when the implementation of the No gold/XP loss from pressing respawn was put in.

ainjyll wrote:

After PvP, the winner is not obliged to give an OOC raise to the losers. There was a time when they were as losers didn't respawn for free, but that little issue was handled quite some time ago. Since they can raise on their own automatically after a few minutes with no penalty, there's no reason to apply any rule forcing players to give OOC raises. It is considered nice to do, unless there's a reason for you to leave someone laying on the ground for a few minutes (make good your escape or something like that comes to mind off the top of my head).

Raising in the entry chamber has no official stance. You can do it if you like, but you are under no obligation whatsoever to do so and anyone implying, directly or otherwise, that you are is so full of crap their eyes are brown.

Apparently I've just been living in a barrel lately. Thanks.

Quote:

Its common courtesy to raise players in the entry area.

No it's not. I won't do it. Don't ask me to.

common courtesy is dictated by etiquette, not by someone saying it isnt

And nothing in server etiquette dictates that it is a moral responsibility or a common courtesy to raise people who are dodging the respawn by sitting in entry.

I agree that it's not "common courtesy" to do it, but I know i appreciate it when someone does, like on the many times I've logged in, having forgotten I died the last time and left or reset hit or whatever, and someone's nice enough to, but I always am prepared to click the respawn, and have done so while people were looking for raise scrolls. XD

That said, if I /have/ the scroll, I like to help. I know I don't have to. But if I think you left B to come to A just for a raise I won't.

AxlLeigh wrote:

That said, if I /have/ the scroll, I like to help. I know I don't have to. But if I think you left B to come to A just for a raise I won't.

It's nice and great, but you cannot tell if the player did not switch the servers for ress. So you might very easily raise a "wrong person". Even after the reset.

Probably best to raise dead people after reset because nobody likes losing craploads of gold on a respawn because people were too paranoid to trust 'em XD

Caldera3 wrote:

Probably best to raise dead people after reset because nobody likes losing craploads of gold on a respawn because people were too paranoid to trust 'em XD

Haha... you guys really need to taste some hardcore death penalties (etc. gear loose, lvl loose) - because if people are willing to cheat because of a few xp points that can be very easily regained (if one wants to), then... well, then something's wrong.

But it is not the point of this thread. I think I understand now the point of view on the OOC ress, so thanks to all who provided the helpful comments.

Caldera3 wrote:

Probably best to raise dead people after reset because nobody likes losing craploads of gold on a respawn because people were too paranoid to trust 'em XD

Well, then you shouldn't have died?

I do do OOC raises to people I've killed in PvP, unless 5 minutes pass while I'm battling another or others that is and they respawn themselves.

I do no do entry room raises anymore. I haven't for a while now. If you die with no one there to save you, you should take the hit, in my opinion. Like I tell people in the entry way who lay there dead, waiting to be raised: take the hit! Respawn!

*Shrugs* And yet after each reset if I am on I grab my Cleric and raise anyone who logs in right after. You can have a lot of reasons why to and why not to raise people in the ooc room but in the end it is personal preference.

Maverick00053 wrote:

*Shrugs* And yet after each reset if I am on I grab my Cleric and raise anyone who logs in right after. You can have a lot of reasons why to and why not to raise people in the ooc room but in the end it is personal preference.

I always give people free raises in the entryway. It feels good to help a fellow player back on their feet.
I suppose some people feel good about seeing others in pain. So yeah, totally a preference thing.

I don't agree with free entry raises, and I wish they would never happen. I know sometimes people die randomly and then I understanding it...or even during a server crash...but if you're boss running or hopping servers (which I WILL fuck your world up for) or getting into legit PVP and expect an entry raise on reset, I think that's an absolutely wussified move and I hate it.

Just one DM's opinion.

It has nothing to do with "feeling good about seeing others in pain" and everything to do with having people take responsibility for their actions. If you die because you decided to hunt alone, tough luck. Respawn, don't be a baby about it.

I like seeing people take responsibility for their actions in lieu of becoming spoiled rotten by being saved from consequences. Howzat.

I like seeing people remember NWN is just a game and people are here to enjoy the game.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I like seeing people remember NWN is just a game and people are here to enjoy the game.

That

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I like seeing people remember NWN is just a game and people are here to enjoy the game.

So do I. But, there's way more to this game than gathering the most gold or being level 30... which are the only two reasons to dig around for free raises in the Entry Room.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

I like seeing people remember NWN is just a game and people are here to enjoy the game.

Actions having consequences doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the game. The not-enjoying part is where you're lying on your back expecting something you aren't really entitled to.

So what if respawning sets you back 10% of your gold and a tenth of the way back on your current level progress? If you're playing mostly to make the numbers on the stat sheet increase faster, you're basically missing the best and most enjoyable part of the game which has nothing do with any of that.

That's not to say that I find the penalty is especially fair. But it's not like I'm suddenly losing 10% of my roleplaying and 10% of the people I play with.

Sure, we all have different interpretations of what it means to enjoy the game.
To me, it's like seeing a guy fall of his bike from speeding.
It's his own fault for speeding, but I wouldn't just leave him there on the road, hurt or not.
I definitely wouldn't be taunting him as I drive past. That's just mean, if you ask me.

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Sure, we all have different interpretations of what it means to enjoy the game.
To me, it's like seeing a guy fall of his bike from speeding.
It's his own fault for speeding, but I wouldn't just leave him there on the road, hurt or not.
I definitely wouldn't be taunting him as I drive past. That's just mean, if you ask me.

First of all, no one ever said in this thread anything about mocking dead players in the entry room.

Second of all, your example is totally, totally out of place. My opinion, sure, but then again... it is.

Should I never witness on my own eyes (monitor) the abuse of server jumping for ress, it is quite possible I would too ress a dead player in the entry room (not for a personal satisfaction, mind you. I just don't care, but hey...). Unfortunately, I have witnessed it, many times, therefore I refuse to help anyone. For the good guys - bad luck. For the bad guys - good on ya.

While we are at it, anyone ever considered a death penalty to split? I mean, now you are loosing 100xp per lvl and 1000 gp per lvl on respawn, I think. Wouldn't it be better to set it that you will loose 500xp and 500gp per lvl on death, and another 500xp and 500gp per level upon hitting a respawn button? You can exclude the PvP from this, if you want.

I thought about starting a new thread about your opinions of death penalties, but then again, it may have been consulted in the past and I hope to be the type that does not spam useless threads *coughs coughs (bumptious sod I'm) cough*

Selmak wrote:

So what if respawning sets you back 10% of your gold and a tenth of the way back on your current level progress? If you're playing mostly to make the numbers on the stat sheet increase faster, you're basically missing the best and most enjoyable part of the game which has nothing do with any of that.

What strikes me here is the 'so what' part of it. Many people's schedules, be they family, work, whatever, don't allow them to crack out for hours at a time, and losing 1000 xp can actually be the loss of an entire day's - or if you're really busy, a week's - gaming. Equally, though I agree that actually interacting with other people is the best part of the game, often times the story you have or want for your character really needs a certain amount of character levels to achieve. For instance, I want to be a master brewer, but I need 18 levels to do that.

I really don't understand why people are bothered by the entryway raising. It's a game, people want to have fun, and I can't imagine how someone getting an OOC raise because something went wrong takes away from anyone's fun. Live and let live.

Gods... since when the level counts? Do you think that higher lvl makes you a better rper? Well you are wrong, because mostly it says otherwise. I knew tons of players that never went outside lvl 15 and were epic, and tons of players that were 40 (or 30) in a matter of month or two and sucked utterly as rpers (Yo, d00d, let's farm ph4t l3wt in the name of -insert random deity- is not roleplaying, from my point of view). And please, just please do not put the "I have a family, work and stuff" kind of crap here. No offense, but I think 99% of players got family, work and stuff outside Nwn. It is not a reason for skipping death penalties, which by the way, are almost always your own fault.

I think you misunderstood me. Take my silent monk as an example. I have two goals with him, literally two: reach master orcharder status so I can actually pick fruit and make juice more than 70% of the time, and get to level 20 so I don't feel like a tool appropriating the term 'master' when I try to start a monastery. If I could achieve this in a reasonable amount of time without fighting I would; in fact, as I brew juice I try to do the math about how long it would take me to level up a character who never threw a punch because that seems way more appealing to me.

But, I don't have that kind of time. I've got a month off and then it's back to the grind, so for now, I grind, hoping I can start having actual fun as soon as possible. Granted, I started doing this because I was under the impression that I couldn't create a new character, put 'Actually a level 20 grand master monk' in the description, and have people take me seriously, or RP as if the dude is a level 20 monk. The amount of time that has been put into creating the mechanics for things not originally included in NWN - subraces, the job system, deities, etc - tells me that having your mechanics match your RP is fairly important. So I'm working within those rules to create the character I want to play: a (mostly now) pacifistic monk who spreads his message of non-attachment and peace using juice and hastily written messages.

I don't think kicking ass to get to achieve that endgame makes me a bad RPer, and as I look ahead to when I won't have all this free time, when I'll only have an hour or two a night, I think to myself: god that's going to suck. I really want to make the most of the time I have in game.

It's clear to me you consider OOC raising to be a really heinous act because it violates something. It's just the something I'm not getting. Like I said, I can't see how someone getting an OOC raise in the entry room hurts your RP at all. It offends your sensibilities, but a lot of things offend my sensibilities. To be honest, I'm a bit old school, so good drow still ruffle me a bit wrong (curse you Salvatore, this is your fault), but hey, if that's what makes it fun for someone else, like I said above, live and let live. Some people have fun kissing each other's avatar's in the park, some people have fun smashing heads, and if the two never meet, and never bother each other, more power to both of them.

My post was not aimed to you, Typ. I should have point that out first.

But then again -

Quote:

I couldn't create a new character, put 'Actually a level 20 grand master monk' in the description, and have people take me seriously, or RP as if the dude is a level 20 monk.

Of course you could not. But - why would you want high lvls with a pacifistic character? A player that do not take you seriously because he out-levels you is not worthy of your time. In fact, of no ones time. Role playing never was about levels. If someone... anyone... is creating a character with the thought of being the best kickass on the server - the character is ruined before it started even exist. Why can't you play a pacifistic monk that presses juice and have a low level? You will not fight - you are a pacifist - so you do not need any levels at all.

I have had a tavern drunk on a server I used to play, and guess what - I had him for 8 months. In the end, he had lvl 12 (!!!!) - and every single xp was given by DM for RP. He did not even have a weapon nor solid clothes, that poor sod (mostly because he would sell them for booze). The fact he had his ass kicked by epic characters that ran into the tavern to replace their food supplies never bothered me. If they did it for a reason - vomit on their badass battle boots, fe. - it was great. If they did it only to boost their wanking ego - I had a good laugh OOCly.

You said it before, It is just a game. Your monk is fabulous, I loved his interaction yesterday. You dont need levels.

And finally, about the OOC ress, i said a few times before, but will again with a hope that it will explain my point of view... no wait, will not. Will post my quote -

Quote:

Should I never witness on my own eyes (monitor) the abuse of server jumping for ress, it is quite possible I would too ress a dead player in the entry room (not for a personal satisfaction, mind you. I just don't care, but hey...). Unfortunately, I have witnessed it, many times, therefore I refuse to help anyone. For the good guys - bad luck. For the bad guys - good on ya.

I will not risk a chance to raise a cheater. I don't want to spoil my bright "brighterthandiamonds" aura.

a)Are there cases where a player may actually be 'not cheating' and need a rez in entry. ie due to a crash etc.

Yes.

b) Are there cases where a player may actually be cheating to get a rez in entry.

Yes.

What are the probabilities of each happening?
1. Depends on the player. 2. Depends on circumstance.

I guess it all depends on the player at hand. I'm glad there is no enforceable rule on this and arguing over such is redundant.

I agree with

Quote:

I like seeing people remember NWN is just a game and people are here to enjoy the game.

its a game, deal with it. Did such a player cheating effect your pc by any loss, harm or in anyway damage your playing experience. If yes, then dont rez them, if No then rez them for all you care it doesnt matter.

This is pretty much what I meant by spoiled rotten.

Edit - On second thought i'd better not get involved. ><

Guardian wrote:

2, Raising in OOC chamber - I do not know if it is frowned upon, smiled upon or shrug upon, my character will never raise anyone who is dead in OOC starting chamber. Call me paranoid, but I feel the cross-realm (Amia Island / Abroad ((Amia A / Amia B)) ) ressing turned into a sport recently. If you have died before the reset and you are one of the misfortune ones that do not cheat (yeah, I used that word), I am sorry. But OOCly - call me evil - no ress from me. This is more of an information than anything, I just do not want any more "Why you not ress me, d00d?" tells in game - use respawn. Death penalties on Amia are like a kiss from that charming ol' gypsy - unpleasant, but not fatal.

I feel the same way about people dying then just deathlogging and waiting till reset. If you die, Deal with it and respawn, not being a jackass and dodging the death penalties aswell as wasting another players's time to revive you. And I might I add if I catch you dead in the entry, Regardless of how you died, I'm gonna teabag you, screenie it with names and post it on the forums, You've all been warned. :twisted:

Ok guys, fun is over. Tis what it tis.

Also; death logging is illegal. You'll be forced to respawn should I catch you doing it.

OOC Raise dead/Ressurection

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