AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Shifter's Speech

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Moth

Posted: Mon, Nov 28 2011, 0:35 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2011

I'm curious about the house rules on this server regarding Shifters and languages.

Shifters, in PnP, receive a feat called Shifter's Speech:
"A master of many forms retains her ability to speak normally, including verbal components of spells, regardless of the form she takes. She may also communicate with other creatures of the form she takes as long as they communicate using natural methods."

I'm wondering, does this allow them to simply communicate ala animal empathy or does it allow them to communicate in Draconic if shifted into a wyrmling or Giant if shifted into a minotaur, akin to the Tongues spell?

Thanks for any reply.

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Zeskija Inalka - Catkin Meadowleaf - Xyme Thanas'ka

Charles1810

Posted: Mon, Nov 28 2011, 1:34 AM

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Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio

No. It permits the ability to make the normal noises that animal could make if non-trained. If turned into a form with the ability to use speech than she is able to speak languages that she knows, you do not gain their natural language.

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Bravo21

Posted: Mon, Nov 28 2011, 1:35 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee

As far as I know, this still applies:

BrainSplitter wrote:

Speech while Shifted

A Shifter changes only their physiology and their physical form. Psychologically they remain identical. As such, they gain no knowledge of additional languages or forms of communication that they did not know before shifting. Shifters changed into Dragon Form do not speak Draconic Automatically.

Additionally, you may only speak in a form that has the physical ability to do so. Animals cannot speak. Humanoids can.

Additionally, if the form you shift into grants a non-visible form of communication, such as Telepathy, this is not to be utilized without direct DM Supervision and Confirmation. Mind Flayers are the most common instance of this.

Besides, what fun is it to not have that learning RP for those who wish to play with language barriers?

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TormakSaber

Posted: Mon, Nov 28 2011, 2:24 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

What Bravo said.

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Galenson

Posted: Mon, Nov 28 2011, 6:04 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Because this is a common thing that absolutely always pops up every couple of months, I think some amia-specific role play guidelines for the classes most misunderstood (or asked about) should be written up in the Rules and Lore sub-forum. (ie your shifters, your dragon disciples, your paladins, your blackguards etc.)

I believe that it would make things alot simpler knowing that there's a definite clarification from the head team, instead of everyone adding their interpreted 2 cents every couple of months... but that's just me.

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Lally

Posted: Sat, Dec 03 2011, 13:48 PM

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Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.

Bravo just posted it, yeah?

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Galenson

Posted: Sun, Dec 04 2011, 2:02 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Galenson wrote:

My point still stands?

That way you can throw a link at someone and say "rules and lore forum has your answers dude" instead of people like Bravo having to dig up old threads for the answer or people like Jes writing up their own interpretations because there's no official standing in writing.

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Bravo21

Posted: Sun, Dec 04 2011, 7:12 AM

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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee

It's actually a great idea. But would likely be better directed to the Amiawiki. It slowly being updated by proactive players and many of the topics for the various classes have been updated recently. Including relevant RP information for the classes seems like a perfect fit, and as several already are, there is precedent. All that's needed is someone on the staff to give the OK on what information is appropriate for Amia and a player to take on that responsibility.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

Galenson

Posted: Sun, Dec 04 2011, 8:59 AM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

As Tormak has stressed over the years, it's a player maintained wiki; anyone and everyone, dnd fluff nut or casual gamer can give you their two cents there just like the forums.

If it's in the rules and lore section, noone but the devs/DMs can post there. It has the immediate weight of authority behind it: this is what you can do, this is what you can't. This is enforced, adhere to it. Not only that, but it means folks like you and me can post links to people when they ask the same questions over and over every couple of months without the unnecessary debates.

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Bravo21

Posted: Sun, Dec 04 2011, 17:40 PM

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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee

Not sure exactly how to take that. It would seem to imply that all the hard work being done on the Wiki is for naught and that there is absolutely no oversight. Both of which are outright wrong. In fact virtually all of the material in the class and roleplay sections of the Wiki are exact copies of what has been posted in the rules and lore sections.

Just supplying an alternative for player involvement to reduce the workload of the Dev team, which is what a discussion is. Nobody is required to take any particular action, but it would be an intellectual disservice not to explore possible options that could meet the same goals.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

Moth

Posted: Sun, Dec 04 2011, 18:37 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Sep 2011

On a personal note, I would much rather abide by the accepted standards of the whole community, assuming that the wiki reflects the views of at least fifty percent of the community by virtue of the freedom granted in open editorial, than to abide by rules which, while established by the server's owners and defacto authority, contradict what is considered beneficial to the majority by the majority, while the will of the majority is not unduely detrimental to any minority. In the event of such incongruence, I would find reason to question the staff, though while a means to entreat the staff exists, it should be preferred that individuals ask for a change in the rules and not oppose them through active nonchalance.

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Zeskija Inalka - Catkin Meadowleaf - Xyme Thanas'ka

DustSpray101

Posted: Mon, Dec 05 2011, 16:55 PM

Player

Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

If we really need to add it to Rules and Lore, make a post in IA and we can toss it on the "to do" list.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Mon, Dec 05 2011, 21:55 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Moth wrote:

In short: "I don't care what DMs say, I'll do what I want."

I don't suggest keeping that attitude.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

corypx

Posted: Mon, Dec 05 2011, 22:12 PM

Player

Joined: 14 Oct 2006

Moth wrote:

Shifters, in PnP, receive a feat called Shifter's Speech:
"A master of many forms retains her ability to speak normally, including verbal components of spells, regardless of the form she takes. She may also communicate with other creatures of the form she takes as long as they communicate using natural methods."

for the first part... NWN does not let you cast spells from your spellbook in form, so no (other then epic spells I think)

for the last part sure.... communicate with other creatures using natural methods, I go outside on my front porch in real life and make squirrel-ish sounds till they hear me and come running over because they know they will get fed peanuts.
I'm sure if you took the form of a squirrel IC, you could make squirrel sounds better, but you dont speak squirrel by anymeans or understand it.

Moth wrote:

I might be out of date but I thought the "accepted standards of the whole community" was to follow the rules and guidelines set by the DMs or they would punish or remove you from said community

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Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

davis114

Posted: Tue, Dec 06 2011, 8:41 AM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Comes back to common sense, imo. Most things do, really. Can a spider speak common? Not unless you're trying a re-enactment of a certain swine-related spider-friendly movie. Could a shifter learn the languages of the forms he/she shifts into? Possible, I suppose. But it'd take a shiteload of rp. Mastering a form wouldn't grant a shifter knowledge of that form's cultural aspects, or the particular ability to understand anything outside the physical shape.

Suppose it's a bit extraneous to keep arguing a moot point anyway, considering the DM's already gave Bravo a cookie for being spot on.

More cookies for Bravo!

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Moth

Posted: Wed, Dec 07 2011, 23:13 PM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2011

TormakSaber wrote:

In short: "I don't care what DMs say, I'll do what I want."

I don't suggest keeping that attitude.

You misunderstand. I wasn't saying I'll do whatever I want, I'm saying if I feel the staff and the rest of the community are not in alignment about a thing I'll bring it up on the forum to be discussed, leaving the final decision in the hands of the staff, as long as the staff are open to hearing / partaking of that discussion.

Quote:

while a means to entreat the staff exists, it should be preferred that individuals ask for a change in the rules and not oppose them through active nonchalance

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Zeskija Inalka - Catkin Meadowleaf - Xyme Thanas'ka

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