AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Stop it.

If you're going to put a description of another character in an in-character post, but not take the time to actually obtain a proper description of them, just writing " *describes character* " does not cut it. Take the time to actually write in at least a brief desription. Not doing so leaves far too much room for metagaming and the like. I don't know how many times DMs have said this exact same thing in numerous posts throughout the forums.

Stop it. Don't do it. It only takes a couple of minutes, at most, to think of and write down a proper desription based on what you actually saw, or obtain a description from the player(s) of said character(s) you're trying to describe.

Instead of "describes blahblah*, you need to go through the motions of actually -detailing- what is is your character remembers about the person, such as armor design and colors, hair color and length, facial hair or the absence thereof, approximate height/weight, any scars or tattoos visible, weapons that were used, etc. All of this info can be obtained either through direct observation, or with a bit of cooperation from the other party/parties involved, and really takes very little effort on both sides.

I'm serious about this, folks. Do not do this any more. Either do the work properly, or don't bother at all.

I can appreciate and agree with this but ask the following as well.

While some asking of people to provide bio information can help, having your bio provide a reasonable description would also be of assistance in this process?

Enforcing that a bio have a character's basic description I dunno if it'll be something the DMs support, but it might help to ask, please, please put a reasonable description in your bio.

While I agree that everyone should have at least a basic "at a glance" bio, I think it would be next to impossible to actually police.

A description also gives the chance that witnesses will give imprecise descriptions.
It adds a realism that is pretty cool. And makes disguises actually work.

<3 this post. Totally agree in full.

Sounds like an avenue for people to take Painter so they can faithfully reproduce what they have seen in picture form, via Screen Shots. :wink:

Grymia wrote:

I can appreciate and agree with this but ask the following as well.
While some asking of people to provide bio information can help, having your bio provide a reasonable description would also be of assistance in this process?
Enforcing that a bio have a character's basic description I dunno if it'll be something the DMs support, but it might help to ask, please, please put a reasonable description in your bio.

Yes, I am in complete agreement here, a blank examine screen is just lazy.

I disagree. Honestly I'm a fan of WSYISWYG (What you see is what you get), even though I normally put bio's on all of my characters. But if you're lazy enough not to look at what he's wearing then it's not his fault.

A blank bio is lazy and WYSIWYG does not function in a world as limited as NWN. That said, KHy's post is 100% correct. We will invalidate info if you do not properly source it and try and cheat your way to recognition.

as NWN lacks hight,build,voice,(and indepth face parts) and other things we use to pick people out so its hard to put a description of another character, and cant you just run up and dye your hair at Kampos, and people can 100% change the look of thier armor in 30sec (same armor but diffrent look ) or in 1sec just toss on a new armor

now unless you want people to do fingerprints or DNA on Amia to avoid the fact that everyone kind of does look the same in terms of NWN.

I know I use WYSIWYG for my Bio but to be fair I have had on the same thing for like 5 years and I'm a shifter.

Blank descriptions (or the standard ones) are lazy, but I nonetheless champion anyone who doesn't bother with a boring physical description in your bio. Most of mine don't have one, period, because the way they look IG is pretty much the way they look. If it is for any reason different, the bio is updated to reflect that, but it never really is.

And it is a bit easier to police than you think. Granted, we can't catch them all, but we can mercilessly punish the ones we do catch, enough to the point that all of our lapdog players will amend lap- to watch- and do the work for us.

Hate to be -that guy- but, when I first came here that was my impression. You get a look at someone, describe them, what they are wearing, and go from there. However, it is as Tormak said. Where most other places use vast CEP/Clothing packs that serve to ease this, on Amia, we don't deviate all too far from stock NWN options. Also the playerbase is gigantic compared to most other places available. Furthermore, we also don't cover height differences, have mandatory DL faces that have eye colors, etc.

The only way this is going to work is if you assume the player base observed is 100% honest. Fact stands that not everyone is. There is no rule forcing folks to describe themselves in tells even if asked for specifics, so it assumable that most will not (not for lack of trying, mind). In fact, most folks tend to act differently than normal when they are under the impression that they may be being observed. I don't disagree with the idea, but Amia is simply too large to expect it to reasonably become the norm. Sad as it is, unless an official rule with teeth comes that ensures this must occur, I doubt much will change as it will only be a matter of time before folks fall back into the same habits.

I hate to be that guy too but I stopped using bio's when I realised there is a spell called polymorph and people like to meta names aswell as bio's. isn't usually a problem but once or twice it has been.

but whatever, I guess I should remember how f_bio works then, and try to think of something generic and relevant rather than listing height weight eyes etc...

Here is my formula.

Check bio and take everything that you CAN. Which means, for example, if the person is wearing helm, you don't take the eye color, but you take the approximate height. You can always guess the race, even if the person is fully covered. Elf or Drow? Guess or take more time to find out. If there is no Bio avalible, describe his armor, weapons, shield and similar in detail, race if you can determine it, hair color, tattoos etc.

You can also follow your target writing down the exact style of fighting, the spells he/she uses, the potions. If you know in advance how is someone going to fight, you have a lesser chance of being supprised.

There is a lot of fun in describing someone.

Dead wrote:

Here is my formula.

Check bio and take everything that you CAN. Which means, for example, if the person is wearing helm, you don't take the eye color, but you take the approximate height. You can always guess the race, even if the person is fully covered. Elf or Drow? Guess or take more time to find out. If there is no Bio avalible, describe his armor, weapons, shield and similar in detail, race if you can determine it, hair color, tattoos etc.

You can also follow your target writing down the exact style of fighting, the spells he/she uses, the potions. If you know in advance how is someone going to fight, you have a lesser chance of being supprised.

There is a lot of fun in describing someone.

You mean, Take a screenshot and copy-paste it?
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1402/celebrilisilme.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4289/celebrilisilmebio.jpg

That's what i used for a report in the past.

Belladonna (my ranger) is someone with a fair spot value, if I have ever had cause to take a description from someone I have sent a polite tell to a player informing them that they have been observed with such and such spot value and would they be so kind as to provide me with a description that they believe to be fair.

In my years playing Amia its -very- rare that anyone has said no to me when doing this. Those who have I tend to label as not wanting to play fairly and just let them slide on by.

I would suggest anyone concerned, try the above, it really does work.

Have tried that to much the opposite effect. Besides, what is there to report as they aren't breaking any server rules?

Athyonn Ursidae wrote:

Belladonna (my ranger) is someone with a fair spot value, if I have ever had cause to take a description from someone I have sent a polite tell to a player informing them that they have been observed with such and such spot value and would they be so kind as to provide me with a description that they believe to be fair.

In my years playing Amia its -very- rare that anyone has said no to me when doing this. Those who have I tend to label as not wanting to play fairly and just let them slide on by.

I would suggest anyone concerned, try the above, it really does work.

I do this! (Or if we both know I would know their description in detail and I forgot) I always ask.

Very_Svensk wrote:

You mean, Take a screenshot and copy-paste it?
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1402/celebrilisilme.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4289/celebrilisilmebio.jpg

That's what i used for a report in the past.

awww... i loved that toon.
How could you hostile him? He was the kindest person ever. Shame on you!

For the love of god yes!!! Now if only you can enforce bios with basic details; eye color, hair color, height, general build, anything I can glance n be like omg he has a carrot tattoo on his nose.

See Guard players? I wasn't just being anal for all this time.

Burningoutbright wrote:

See Guard players? I wasn't just being anal for all this time.

Well anal or no it adds more of a real life feel with writing reports and doing investigations. Yes amia is a game, but if I do something to warrent a person talking bout me and seaching for me I sure as hell hope they would at least know my hair color. :twisted:

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

Athyonn Ursidae wrote:

Belladonna (my ranger) is someone with a fair spot value, if I have ever had cause to take a description from someone I have sent a polite tell to a player informing them that they have been observed with such and such spot value and would they be so kind as to provide me with a description that they believe to be fair.

In my years playing Amia its -very- rare that anyone has said no to me when doing this. Those who have I tend to label as not wanting to play fairly and just let them slide on by.

I would suggest anyone concerned, try the above, it really does work.

I do this! (Or if we both know I would know their description in detail and I forgot) I always ask.

I will say no to both of you. Hah. Even if Everything you need to know is usually in my Characters Bio's.

I'm gonna take that as a troll and not as a serious remark. Stop trolling.

If someone is seriously disregarding any tells or refusing to divulge information about things that would be easily recognizable about their character (i.e. height, voice if they speak, so on) contact a DM.

On a personal note, I despise blank or stock bios. It shows a lack of creativity. I don't care if your character is a shifter, use your imagination and come up with something. Even if it's just one sentence like:

"This entity looks at you with a quizzical look as it realizes you're observing it.

<< Send tell for specifics.>>"

I don't think it was so much a troll as it was a poor way of pointing at a glaring lack in judgement. I for one haven't had the same luck Bella has had. There isn't a rule though that prevents them from: not responding, refusing the request, or simply excluding all tells.

If you wish it to truly change for good, make it a rule and add some teeth. Otherwise you are demanding "common sense" be used and that is one thing that has been proven to not be "common."

I've had trouble getting descriptions from people with stock/blank/undescriptive bios, too. Often, I get told to use "describes X" and that just annoys the crap out of me. I also hate the "He looks just like his character model." That also annoys me. I'll just cut it off there before I start ranting about irrelevant but related things.

DustSpray101 wrote:

There isn't a rule though that prevents them from: not responding, refusing the request, or simply excluding all tells.

response:

ainjyll wrote:

If someone is seriously disregarding any tells or refusing to divulge information about things that would be easily recognizable about their character (i.e. height, voice if they speak, so on) contact a DM.

No disrespect to Ky, but this seems bitchy and premature. Untill there is a common Bio regulation, it's just silly to have to put down a description of: "Guy in all black with hood" when your PC has a spot of 83 and has the skill to give a detailed description when the game itself does not. And as for being lazy, most of the server is, including myself. However, if you wish not to engage any toon of mine and find out the least bit of information by interaction then screw you too, it's not there for a reason.

That said, having a standard of bio information would be helpful, but would require the DM team to take a stand on apearance changes...

Kudark wrote:

DustSpray101 wrote:

There isn't a rule though that prevents them from: not responding, refusing the request, or simply excluding all tells.

response:

ainjyll wrote:

If someone is seriously disregarding any tells or refusing to divulge information about things that would be easily recognizable about their character (i.e. height, voice if they speak, so on) contact a DM.

Yet you can disable tells if you change it from the file in the nwn folder, and I know some use it to get away from the ooc, but usually they then have some basic bio / note that they have disabled it. I find these players actually want others to RP that *looks more detailed on how X looks*, rather than just them to be able to tell it from a far.

Don't get me wrong, I entirely agree that somethig should be done about it. Playing a guard of Bendir Dale for as long as I have, I understand the complaint but what good does whining to us players/ asking for us to whine back to the DMs do when there is not a rule with some teeth prohibiting folks from ignoring/refusing to tell?

Quarter_From_Nothing wrote:

Yet you can disable tells if you change it from the file in the nwn folder, and I know some use it to get away from the ooc, but usually they then have some basic bio / note that they have disabled it. I find these players actually want others to RP that *looks more detailed on how X looks*, rather than just them to be able to tell it from a far.

In my opinion, those that are disabling Tells are only encouraging others to have to resort to //OOC to get some basic info, or even to ask a question like "Is the amulet visible?", and that can be very distracting during RP, especially when there is a lot of people talking close by.

ainjyll wrote:

On a personal note, I despise blank or stock bios. It shows a lack of creativity. I don't care if your character is a shifter, use your imagination and come up with something. Even if it's just one sentence like:

"This entity looks at you with a quizzical look as it realizes you're observing it.

<< Send tell for specifics.>>"

In my experience, any information in the Bio will be metagammed reguardless of the circumstances at hand. Or on the other extreme, those that include a novel sized bio, induce metagamming by giving a massive amount of OOC information that once known cannot be unknown and is metagammed by default.

In all my time on the server, being of course lazy and unimaginative, I have had exactly two people ever send a tell asking for information reguarding a physical description who were not drow players. So about once a year does anyone ever have an RP need for a bio. Not exactly an incentive to create something that's never even given a glance. And of course being arbitrarily included in a group of players that are deficient by default, thanks...

I never read large bio's. Just a short description of what you see. I mean, my Portrait is basically what you see with Mathan too, but that is depending on if you have the portrait pack. I personally go for short bio's describing what someone would see when they look at mathan, nothing about history or story. That can go in a wikipage somewhere. Never got around to making one of those either.

I also tend to save my bio's in a notepad, with the commands to change, and have several different descriptions for different diguises, for those people who get confused between seeing a character who usually wears black, suddenly wearing bright blue or pink.

Some friend showed me Ultima Online ages ago which had a feature where all PCs just appear as generic strangers until you take some mechanic measures to identify them or two PCs get something like 'buddies': one PC allows the other PC to be identified permanently. Kinda cool. It means you don't see a chars name but some physical details that were much more detailed at character creation in UO, IIRC.

Just like Jimbo... if the Bio is too long I think it has a bunch of OOC info and I don't read it. There have been some exceptions.. and those are the ones who put Lore in their bio with a number. Right now my bio is empty.. but I usually don't have an empty one. It only includes the basic + Whatever she is wearing is what you get.

I also sometimes leave vague descriptions to let people know they are there but they can RP and ask about.. for instance jewels and smaller details that one wouldn't notice unless they where close. Anything else I just use RP. I think it's more fun and special when the small nuances are revealed that way to another player.

I agree with the OP that IC posts especially.. that the poster should of made the time to gather some of this info.

Lore or any other checks in a bio just makes me hit the close button ASAP.

nobody likes tl;dr. >.>

Bravo21 wrote:

No disrespect to Ky, but this seems bitchy and premature. Untill there is a common Bio regulation, it's just silly to have to put down a description of: "Guy in all black with hood" when your PC has a spot of 83 and has the skill to give a detailed description when the game itself does not. And as for being lazy, most of the server is, including myself. However, if you wish not to engage any toon of mine and find out the least bit of information by interaction then screw you too, it's not there for a reason.

That said, having a standard of bio information would be helpful, but would require the DM team to take a stand on apearance changes...

Bitchy and premature? Please. It's not my fault you can't be assed to describe your character in a roleplaying game. Stop being lazy. Change starts with the players and I am not wasting my time on needless overhead and babysitting.

Maybe we should do what Disco does with avatars then, and assign random bios to characters that don't have one.

No. Seriously. Kidding.

Selmak wrote:

Maybe we should do what Disco does with avatars then, and assign random bios to characters that don't have one.

No. Seriously. Kidding.

Ahaha. That made me smile. Thank you. I'd be up for writing bios for a random bio generator for people who don't have one.

Like this?

Quote:

From an early age, you demonstrated a willingness to protect others from harm, even if the price was a bloodied nose and painful bruises. You devoted yourself to the healing arts so that such hurts could be mended. After coming of age, you found your true calling and now you find yourself in unfamiliar lands ready to do the work you were born for.

TormakSaber wrote:

Bitchy and premature? Please. It's not my fault you can't be assed to describe your character in a roleplaying game. Stop being lazy. Change starts with the players and I am not wasting my time on needless overhead and babysitting.

So truly then, what was the point of the topic?

All this is is lots of useless barking and a hollow threat with no teeth (as it lacks solid structure to back it) b/c folks have the freedom to play as they wish so log as it coincides with the server rules. There are no rules stating that people -must- describe themselves when asked.

If you don't want to babysit, that's fine and dandy but as a member of the staff it falls to you guys to set up a system where those that wish to not share what their toon actually looks like can actually be held accountable. As players, we don't have the authority to set that much up.

More like

When you were (young/old/born/a teenager), Your (family/brother/sister/dog/aunt/village/best friend) was (in love with you/taken captive/slain/turned into a newt/in college). This (trauma/blessing/curse/event/happening) caused you to (Angst/be happy/take up the sword/want to travel/run from the law), and as a result you (teleported/took a boat/got cursed by a mage/never left to begin with/swam) to the shores of (Cordor/Wharftown/Uhm/Kohlingen/Wiltun to begin your new (life/conquest/search for love/adventure/career).

Quote:

There are no rules stating that people -must- describe themselves when asked.

Fucking A, way to go for the worst loophole ever. "It doesn't say I CAN'T do it! So I'm going to do it to be a dick even though it's clearly against the spirit of the rules and the whole "Don't be a douchebag to the community" thing.

Quote:

ainjyll wrote:
If someone is seriously disregarding any tells or refusing to divulge information about things that would be easily recognizable about their character (i.e. height, voice if they speak, so on) contact a DM.

I don't describe my characters because I'd prefer people to look at how the actual NWN model looks and use their imagination from there. Lazy? Yeah, sure. But if I give a specific description in text of how my characters look and sound, people will tend not to deviate from that description, which is pretty unrealistic. Granted, I've not actually been asked yet about the specific appearance/sound of any of my characters, so I guess it's not so much an issue yet for me.

Still, glaring changes from the NWN models should be addressed in the bio, and I try to keep that up-to-date with visible injuries or behaviours (e.g., gait). Otherwise, I don't give a rat's ass what my character, or any other character, specifically looks like, outside the basic visuals provided by NWN... unless, of course, descriptions thereof are spectacularly written. Most are not.

Quote:

But if I give a specific description in text of how my characters look and sound, people will tend not to deviate from that description, which is pretty unrealistic

This is kind of the point of a description. I certainly don't deviate from my birth given physical appearance on a day to day basis....

Considering pertinence in regards to various different types of reasons..

It is important to have a description or at the least be willing to tell what is seen by someone when they do see ya IC. It wouldn't be something that'd prompt a posting and a thread of this length otherwise.

--

Adding to Tormak's point, there are specific times (which thankfully we can attend with the use of the Bio command) where relevant factors of appearance change. Tattoos, semi-permanent or permanent scarring, major disguises.

But, otherwise yes in general your appearance is your appearance.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

But if I give a specific description in text of how my characters look and sound, people will tend not to deviate from that description, which is pretty unrealistic

This is kind of the point of a description. I certainly don't deviate from my birth given physical appearance on a day to day basis....

But people asked to describe your physical appearance probably wouldn't all give the same details. Sure, they'd roughly correspond to how you actually look, but almost everyone would describe you at least a little differently, and if asked specifics, might get a few things wrong.

Still, without the kind of engine that'd allow for more effective facial differentiation and head differentiation, a bio to give those who WOULD be able to fully provide a description realistically and ICly would be a boon especially since I imagine the 'Describes Character X' is going to really be cracked down on even moreso then it already is.

To them I offer their imaginations.

describes character X in IC posts

Who is online

*describes character X* in IC posts

Who is online

describes character X in IC posts