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Selvec Darkon
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 Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 13:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I'd like to ask why the ECL's where removed from all the Genasi Subraces? There are a few that is understandable, but Earth Genasi is pretty damned strong even with the ECL, removing it compounds this and makes it stronger then some of the human region subraces.
Also, with the ECL removal, does that apply to current Genasi and Orog characters or is that limited to new ones?
_________________
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"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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This was asked in the other genasi thread. A decision made by the experts while the builders dance in glee  Nekhy wrote: Dramatic_Prince wrote: PaladinOfSune wrote: Number one, you're off-topic. Number two, it was already decided upon by people more knowledgeable than you.
Knock it off. All right chief, I apologise for taking such a tone. But may I ask the justification on the removal of the ECL, please? Because it doesn't significantly differ from some base races that get similar boni/penalties without ECL. Keep in mind that the subrace boni do not add to the normal base race boni, so an Elf Air Genasi will not get total +4 DEX, but will only get +2 DEX after the boni have been applied. _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 14:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Well, this change didn't give hard-ons to our design and dev team's build monkeys...
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Roppi
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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I do think having to pass a will save vs death is a very large drawback if anything.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Roppi wrote: I do think having to pass a will save vs death is a very large drawback if anything. Fortitude! Murder is Fort save.
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My Sovereign
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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I think he is speaking of the cleric spell Word of Faith, which is a will save vs death against outsiders, like the Genasi.
_________________
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Hah. And i'm in the wrong topic! 
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Yush, outsider subraces are subject to being banished.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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Why not tieflings?  EDIT: Forget I said that. Forgot Air Genasi get -2 wisdom. _________________  <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Tieflings and aasimars also get damage resistance boni.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Nekhy wrote: Well, this change didn't give hard-ons to our design and dev team's build monkeys... You know what's so good about genasi? It's universal. No ECL means we can min-max more efficiently with any base race. The builders will be slightly aroused by the new build options opened up now Quote: I think he is speaking of the cleric spell Word of Faith, which is a will save vs death against outsiders, like the Genasi. Death ward guards? _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Gah, you changed the Earth Genasi, too? I'll just go cut myself.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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Sorry to deviate from the topic slightly, but why do Tieflings get acid resistance instead of cold resistance?
_________________ <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Gah, you changed the Earth Genasi, too? I'll just go cut myself. Poor Storn. You should have been born an Earth Genasi too  _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Any plans to make Tieflings and Outsiders +0 ECL races ? 
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 15:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Nopes.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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What about making them a Platinum race?
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Cake_Or_Death wrote: What about making them a Platinum race? Good drow first. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Nopes.
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Or cutting the -2Cha from tieflings. That'd help even them up next to Aasimar.
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AlphaWaves
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: I'm pretty lost but I don't wanna be found.
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I had no idea this was changed. I'm massively disappointed. Really. Along with the strongheart disgrace, I think this is a bad decision. But too late now. Like my opinion means anything anyway.
_________________ "The householder's disdain for the vagabond hides a hint of jealousy."
~ A hin proverb
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: Or cutting the -2Cha from tieflings. That'd help even them up next to Aasimar. No, we're not adjusting the stats of any subrace now.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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That, and, if any race deserves the -2 charisma it's tieflings. I mean they are, after all, descended from the spawn of the embodiment of evil.
_________________ <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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And that impacts negatively on charisma how? But this gets into a discussion about what each individual stat means and well.
Yehh, not going back there again.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Well, it has an effect on how the average folk regard you.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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They also have an aura of wrongness which can't help matters.
_________________ <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 16:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Evil is sexy. If anything they should get a CHA bonus!
xD.
But kay to my questions. Though the second one hasn't been answered yet I think.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 17:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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It applies to current and new genasi and orogs.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 17:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: And that impacts negatively on charisma how? But this gets into a discussion about what each individual stat means and well.
Yehh, not going back there again. He was joking...
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 17:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Death Ward doesn't guard against Banishment or any of those spells. Enjoy resisting them with your 6 WIS.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 17:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Death Ward doesn't guard against Banishment or any of those spells. Enjoy resisting them with your 6 WIS. Rule no 19. if people don't know you're an outsider, they won't cast those spells. Hide your heritage you min-maxers  _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Hopefully we'll see more Water Genasi now.
Make (more?) critters cast Word of Faith, IMO!
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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IronAngel wrote: Make (more?) critters cast Word of Faith, IMO! Using INT to cover -WIS? Very clever sir. Very clever. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Zinovy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: Well, it has an effect on how the average folk regard you.
I disagree with the quote because this is Amia. Every street corner has its own half-dragon (CHA bonus, not penalty even for the evil ones) kobold (no CHA penalty) etc. This isn't to say that they should all have CHA penalties, but that a tiefling isn't a big enough deal to warrant -2 CHA, in my opinion, given the frequency of freaks running around.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Zinovy wrote: I disagree with the quote because this is Amia. Every street corner has its own half-dragon (CHA bonus, not penalty even for the evil ones) kobold (no CHA penalty) etc. This isn't to say that they should all have CHA penalties, but that a tiefling isn't a big enough deal to warrant -2 CHA, in my opinion, given the frequency of freaks running around. It's not a question of being different here, but being devil/demon spawn.
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hendrack
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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If you go to a freak show you'll blend with the crowd, but you're still a freak.
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Charles1810
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio
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Nekhy wrote: It applies to current and new genasi and orogs. So they can just go level up or do they need to have a dm smack them with something remove the +1?
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Zinovy wrote: Quote: Well, it has an effect on how the average folk regard you.
I disagree with the quote because this is Amia. Every street corner has its own half-dragon (CHA bonus, not penalty even for the evil ones) kobold (no CHA penalty) etc. This isn't to say that they should all have CHA penalties, but that a tiefling isn't a big enough deal to warrant -2 CHA, in my opinion, given the frequency of freaks running around. What Zinovy said. If it matters what "average folk" think, then being Aasimar should lump you with a -2Cha as well. Afterall, peasant farmers wouldn't know, they'd just call it a freak regardless. But anyway, doesn't matter. Afterall, one look at all the human subraces and well...didn't think those through either.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Charles1810 wrote: So they can just go level up or do they need to have a dm smack them with something remove the +1? You don't need to do anything, it's already applied automatically. _________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Charles1810
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Charles1810 wrote: So they can just go level up or do they need to have a dm smack them with something remove the +1? You don't need to do anything, it's already applied automatically. *Dances* Now if only I didn't kill Sabaton off.
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Palin489
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2010
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Take into consideration that PCs merely make up the actively played characters. They do not by any means symbolize the majority of the population in the background that doesn't get played to have a "functional world". Farmers, cooks, and just general civilians etc.
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Mr T
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: England
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Name a devil or demon which *routinely* has mortal progeny with a negative to charisma? For the *last* time charisma is FORCE of personality not looks or how farmer Joe regards you.
Demon and devil spawn should have high charisma the tiefling stats as they are make no sense and are literally there for ''balance''.
Examples for the unbelievers aboleths, mindflayers, every Formian (except the worker!), fricken Knightmares and Night hags!
Anyway to the original suggestion - meh - more ''Amia'' logic that the devs, testers will say is balanced prove not to be and lead to stubborn refusal to change/embarrassing rewrite.
PS EVERY Dwarf has no reason NOT to be an Earth Genasi.
Mr T
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Charles1810 wrote: *Dances* Now if only I didn't kill Sabaton off. You can bring him back. People have come back from permadeath. Mr T wrote: PS EVERY Dwarf has no reason NOT to be an Earth Genasi. Except outsiders can't become DDs _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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hendrack
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Quote: Name a devil or demon which *routinely* has mortal progeny with a negative to charisma? For the *last* time charisma is FORCE of personality not looks or how farmer Joe regards you.
Thats your definition of CHA. Go hit search and see what others think.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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hendrack wrote: Quote: Name a devil or demon which *routinely* has mortal progeny with a negative to charisma? For the *last* time charisma is FORCE of personality not looks or how farmer Joe regards you.
Thats your definition of CHA. Go hit search and see what others think. Seconded.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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hendrack wrote: Quote: Name a devil or demon which *routinely* has mortal progeny with a negative to charisma? For the *last* time charisma is FORCE of personality not looks or how farmer Joe regards you.
Thats your definition of CHA. Go hit search and see what others think. or go read the players handbook definition of charisma..which includes physical appearance..*Rolls eyes*
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Well, Mr T, you're welcome to do things better on your own server since you obviously know how, if "Amia logic" doesn't please you.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Palin489 wrote: Take into consideration that PCs merely make up the actively played characters. They do not by any means symbolize the majority of the population in the background that doesn't get played to have a "functional world". Farmers, cooks, and just general civilians etc. These 'unknown people' get forgotten far to often. I come to think of a fun quote when somebody said that they should invade kholingen because ' They only have 20-25 Guards anyway'. No. Nononoo... Kholingen is a city, They probably have 500-1000 Guards, Or more.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 18:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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*stops... shanking the guards.* Wait, what?
_________________ <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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RaveN
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Posted: Thu, Jan 27 2011, 19:11 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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hahah... wtf.
Earth Genasi = wood elf on steroids.
_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
Last edited by RaveN on Thu, Jan 27 2011, 19:14 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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