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Repeating topics
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56148		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Selmak [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 18:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Repeating topics
Stuff you should know about this topic

Topic description: Repeating topics and their impact on developer time

Contested points
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Agreed points
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Actions agreed
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Yes, it's to do with the recent obsession with permadeath. Or any topic that periodically resurfaces with demands for attention.

These topics take time and attention away from things that need doing. I'm not saying that they don't stir up some ideas that may prove useful, but personally I don't need the temptation of another hot topic, and yes I've already written half a post and backed up because I know there's nothing to be gained.

If it's important enough to need addressing, it can be looked at again in a month or two. Let's focus on other stuff for a bit, okay?
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 18:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Sorry, I don't approve of this post. Some people are new and have new ideas.
Sadly, Some of these 'new' ideas are allready suggested.

Doesn't mean it's wrong to make a new topic. You should never discourage people to post!
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 18:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
We're not discouraging the actual posting, more so than encouraging people to read up on previous discussions and suggestions, rather than just stirring up old ones, which they may or may not know have already been put forth. Rehashing seldom does much good.

Maybe a sticky of topics about other topics so people can check what threads an ideas have already been brought up?

Like a a thread that goes

"Death Penalties/Permadeath
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

Gold and Economy
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]"

Someone could round them up I imagine.
Author:  corypx [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
whats that thing....that DMs have been telling us to use for years befor posting.... damn I forget but it was somewhere uptop that helps you find things.
Author:  Yossarin [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I'm not really bothered by repeated topics. I'm perfectly capable of ignoring the rehashing of old ideas presented as new ideas. As an analogy, I never hear ants scream when I walk on them.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
That's because you aren't listening hard enough, Yoss....you just aren't listening hard enough...

Anehwhey, most of the people that rehash topics unknowingly don't bother with searching for them. To be honest, if you're new, it's quite a lot of mess to go through and search through topics completely unfamiliar to you.

If it hasn't been compiled already, I might get around to making my suggested topic. Then we may have grounds to wrinkle our brows at silleh n00bs.
Author:  corypx [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Yossarin wrote:
As an analogy, I never hear ants scream when I walk on them.


but you do hear them sizzle if you fry them with a magnifying glass.
Author:  PaladinOfSune [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Nobody reads stickies.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Don't say that - I still miss the stickies that went missing after the hak attack
Author:  hendrack [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Dark Immolation wrote:
Maybe a sticky of topics about other topics so people can check what threads an ideas have already been brought up?


That's what the search button is for, it needs to be used more before posting ideas.
Author:  IronAngel [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Whether or not Search is cool and easy, the complaint is pretty silly: it takes no time or energy from those people who don't choose to spend time on it. Not to mention the bias in contrasting them to "things that need doing."
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
The fact that you made this topic is more annoying than any topic complaining about permadeath again.
Author:  Kudark [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 19:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
TormakSaber wrote:
The fact that you made this topic is more annoying than any topic complaining about permadeath again.

LOL, I had to laugh at that.
Author:  Selmak [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 20:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I lost practically all of last week because of back pain, and the week before that because of electrical work. I cannot be dragging my heels making suggestions in dead-end topics. And yet here I am, what a surprise. I guess I just can't get enough of those impossible problems requiring ever more ridiculous solutions.

Despite what you may think, I'm quite serious about this having an impact on stuff in Improving Amia. If I'm thinking up alternatives to things that will never happen, it's because I see things differently to another poster in General Discussion. If I'm fixing job system things it's because someone flagged them up in IA. The power to influence what I will do with my time is in your hands. :)
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 21:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
It's not too hard of a request. He's just asking that people try to look around a bit more before stirring up particular topics.

I mean it's for our own(the non-developers') benefit. We want our devs to be able to come in, browse through a thread in a reasonable amount of time, and be able to make a judgement about whether this gets discussed among them or not. That's a bit hard to do when every time a particular topic gets brought up, they have to drudge through 4 rambling pages of arguments and debates only to discover no progress or concession has been made on it yet again.

They're the ones that make actual stuff happen mechanically off of the stuff said here. "You don't have to read it if you don't want to" is the completely wrong thing we wanna tell them. We want them to read them else, how will the ideas get implemented? How will the ball get rolling on the other side of the curtain?

We don't have tailor all discussions to somehow suit them, hell no. But when we actually want something done, and by we I mean a majority of the server not just someone tossing up and idea that's been beaten to death, we might as well make it in a form that makes it easier to come to fruition.
Author:  Selmak [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 21:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I would be all for making the first post in any thread a topic header. Stuff you should know about this thread before you dive in. I made an example in my first post but doubtless someone else can come up with something more eye-catching.

Obviously it'd be up to the OP to maintain it, but in the event that someone does use the Search function and finds an old topic, it would make it much easier to see if a particular idea has been raised before.

Of course you'd still have to get people used to throwing the template up there where they would usually present their idea and kick things off.
Author:  ButtersTFG [ Tue, Mar 01 2011, 22:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I have to say as a new player its very hard to read up on your forums old materials. The times i have searched i've found a slew of random postings of players and usually little information to the question i seek to answer. However when i did eventually ask the dms i was pretty much met with rude remarks because i did not hold the knowledge of the servers past discussions. All in all.. Try and be nice it would be greatly appreciated. Not all of us have been here for seven years or so and are honestly just looking for answers or trying to make the server better. Though it may be insiginifcant to some DM's it comes from a good place for the players. Just trying to help or learn right? And in the end there is not much fun being a DM without those players that are there to be dismissed for being inconvenient.
Author:  Dramatic_Prince [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 11:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
ButtersTFG wrote:
However when i did eventually ask the dms i was pretty much met with rude remarks because i did not hold the knowledge of the servers past discussions. All in all.. Try and be nice it would be greatly appreciated.

I can direct you to a few DMs who are never rude. At least from my experience. Don't let the actions of a few get you down. :D
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 12:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
ButtersTFG wrote:
I have to say as a new player its very hard to read up on your forums old materials. The times i have searched i've found a slew of random postings of players and usually little information to the question i seek to answer. However when i did eventually ask the dms i was pretty much met with rude remarks because i did not hold the knowledge of the servers past discussions. All in all.. Try and be nice it would be greatly appreciated. Not all of us have been here for seven years or so and are honestly just looking for answers or trying to make the server better. Though it may be insiginifcant to some DM's it comes from a good place for the players. Just trying to help or learn right? And in the end there is not much fun being a DM without those players that are there to be dismissed for being inconvenient.


Yep, You should continue making new posts.
And this utterly proves the first post i made in this topic - We should never discourage from posting new topics. That's cutting down on the freedom of speech or something
Author:  Vaul Tarrith [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 14:46 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I don't think anyone's contesting the validity of 'new posts'; it's rehashing the ones that haven't even dropped off the current view that's annoying and time consuming for the devs to read.

Now, if your 'solution' is to not read posts that appear to be rehashing a thread from, say...3 days ago, don't bitch when The Devs don't read your posts. Bear in mind, these guys don't collect a paycheck to dance at our every whim: they perform a multitude of tasks w/o compensation. If the expectation is that they spend even another HOUR of any given day sorting through posts to find threads containing ideas / information / requests / complaints that were shut down just days prior, that's an hour spent NOT doing something else...like being in-game, or working on modifications, or fixing bugs...you get the picture.

They wear size 14 extra-wide shoes. Step into a pair before you hammer away.
Author:  Scimiter [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 15:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Very_Svensk wrote:
Some people are new and have new ideas.
Sadly, Some of these 'new' ideas are already suggested.


This is the point right here. No one is talking about anything new that hasn't already been denied and a good search before you post would prove it. And "freedom of speech" and "human rights" do not make something okay. Those are just legal terms that allow the minority to force the majority to submit to the irrational motivations of the few
Author:  Vaul Tarrith [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 15:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Quote:
Those are just legal terms that allow the minority to force the majority to submit to the irrational motivations of the few


I LOVE THIS LINE!

May I use that? :twisted:
Author:  Nekhy [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 18:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
I think the point here is, that people expect dev replies to topics about the same shit over and over again, but devs don't have the time to give the same responses over and over again, especially very soon after one topic was deemed not good. So they got three options: do it like Yossi and ignore the players, point to the previous topics and be ignored themselves, or waste time replying and arguing again.

And that is definitely something for players to consider. Do you want your devs to ignore you or waste their time that could be spent on something more productive?
Author:  jimbono1 [ Wed, Mar 02 2011, 18:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
-My- Dev's? Awesome! I got Dev's! I want them to make the entire server based around me!
Author:  Dwagin [ Thu, Mar 03 2011, 6:35 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Ideas which fit with the dynamics of Amia are taken into account. What happens sometimes with threads, is people want to redesign the sandbox by blowing it up instead of adding new sand-sculpting toys or new kinds of buckets to play with with these threads.. Amia has its own character, and feel. If you try to do too different it just.. doesn't work.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Thu, Mar 03 2011, 22:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
The only thing I ask is that if you are making a suggestion that needs discussion post it in Genderal Discussion first because I honestly get irritated reading three pages of replies in IA which I have no choice but to read because as development is my primary role on Amia. If I feel a topic isn't going to get anywhere near a consensus to actually make a mechanical change I move it to General Discussion.
Author:  Estara [ Fri, Mar 04 2011, 17:19 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Repeating topics
Yossarin wrote:
I'm not really bothered by repeated topics. I'm perfectly capable of ignoring the rehashing of old ideas presented as new ideas. As an analogy, I never hear ants scream when I walk on them.


Hahahahahahahaha
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