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Baden Ironblood
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 Posted: Wed, Feb 09 2011, 15:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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Extra Turn Undead is not available to Blackgaurds even though they have the ability to do so. Is this a basic game limitation that cannot be changed, or can a special request be made or a change made on the Amia server?
If there was a logical reason why it is unavailable I'd like to know.
Baden Ironblood
_________________
I'm BACK!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Wed, Feb 09 2011, 16:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Bioware didn't programme it in?
With the hak it can be made a class feat.
I think it's just so to punish low CHA BGs.
_________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Bravo21
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Posted: Wed, Feb 09 2011, 17:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee
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Bioware didn't delve into the intracasies of rebuking undead vs turning undead. BG's don't technically turn undead as they do not channel positive energy, being evil and all. But, since NWN doesn't support rebuking undead, BG's get limited turning and no extras.
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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.
-Krrja
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 12:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Where's my turn outsider?
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 12:57 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Where's my turn outsider? Right where you left your 25 Cha + 25 Wis cleric or paladin. _________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 13:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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I think Turn Outsider also requires the right domains.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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American_Knight
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 13:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Location: The United States of America
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Turn Outsider is given either as a feat for epics at 25 wisdom AND charisma, OR you can simply get Evil or Good domains.
_________________
"Truth, Justice, and the American way..." "Give me Liberty or give me Death"
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 13:37 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Which is horribly skewed. Virtually free, if you pick one of 6 domains. An arm, a leg, and a cruddy build, if you want to get it any other way.
I think Planar Turning should be changed to accept 25 Wis OR 25 Cha. Virtually no builds call for having 2 base stats that high on a lv30 cap world. And I'm not even sure if it's possible to get both stats that high by 30, even starting off with 18's and whoring CoT for Great Wisdom.
Even if it is possible, it's certainly not worth it at that point.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 14:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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The domains that grant it aren't very good otherwise, though.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 14:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Its still a Cleric though. We could disable domain spells completely and Clerics would still be pretty durned good.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 15:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Nekhy wrote: The domains that grant it aren't very good otherwise, though. That sounds like a good reason right there to add it. Make people take the domain. Any encouragement to take domains over Travel and Plant has to be good.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 20:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yeah, and that encouragement will probably be "you can't get beyond the entry unless your domains (notice the plural) match."
We can only hope, anyways.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 22:08 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Don't hope. We'd just see most clerics being made being a Maskarran/etc for no apparent reason..IC reason, at least.
We can pick our poison. Some clerics being made with domains that make no relevant IC sense. Or many clerics being made with deities that make no relevant IC sense.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 22:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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This topic is about clerics now?
Extra Turning for BGs may be available in time.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 10 2011, 22:23 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Well the discussion was why blackguards couldn't get it like the other divine classes, so perhaps vicariously.
I see no harm in it, other than the fact is it would just be going straight to fueling Divine Might/Shield, but such is the case with most classes that get Turn Undead.
It's only really a problem for non-clerics that go BG. In which case, is it really so horrible you get shortchanged in the divine department, when it's not your original bag in the first place? CoT doesn't have access to it. But then again, it doesn't get Turn Undead, either. *shrug*
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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soundofastream
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 0:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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lots of people do the 10fighter/2rogue/rest BG route (as its one of the better BG builds).
I found creating a cleric/BG one of the harder things to build as there's never enough feats as it is to go around. And I also found that there's very little point trying to turn things your level is usually fighting against on Amia, as you'll be very lucky IF you do manage to turn them. Either the spawn is too low level for you to bother with OR, you're better off using it for divine shield or might.
So the extra turn feats, on a cleric/BG build where the BG is the main game you're looking for, is very hard to fit in, without serious giving up something else that is normal on other builds.
So I contend that there's no advantage, on average, that a cleric/BG gets on having the "option" of selecting it, when in reality, you've got no wiggle room anyway. In otherwords, cleric/BGs wouldn't really be able to take it, whilst a fighter/rogue/BG build, if this changes, would have spare feats to select it.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 0:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Real clerics/paladins/BGs don't need Extra Turning. I get by just fine without it. :p
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 0:58 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Personally, I don't find much need for it. Not that it's that great of a boon for BG, but that the class itself already offers a majority of the good bits of the divine classes at full AB, no less. They really aren't hurting to get 6 more uses of Divine Might or Shield. If they do, there's always the option of not using CHA as a dumpstat, as absurd as that may sound to some.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 4:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The answer to this topic is "Bioware forgot", btw, ans thus I have no issue adding it to the class's feat list.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Baden Ironblood
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 15:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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As always Tormak you cut right to the heart of the topic. It sounds like it can be added on this server. The DMs don't seem to have a problem with it. Any time frame onwhen this could happen, if at all?
_________________
I'm BACK!
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Fri, Feb 11 2011, 18:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Done when it's done. Don't twiddle your thumbs in wait, it'll need a hak change.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 9:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Baden Ironblood wrote: Any time frame onwhen this could happen, if at all? Request it and make it a feat on your gear? _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 11:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No, Extra Turning will never be allowed on gear because it is heavily exploitable.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Tysonm1
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 12:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Location: England, Lincolnshire
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Awesome. More ways of making Blackguards the most meanest bastards on the game.  _________________ Quote: The Tysonm1 is a type of main battle tank designed around the old T-64 chassis using an untested armor called Spam.
Spam armor for all intents and purposes is only limited to the size of the internet.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 12:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I'll come out and say it. I don't think Blackguards need another buff.
Remember, Extra Turn Undead = Extra Divine Armor and Divine Weapon (Whatever that one is). That's not a good thing, and I don't think they need the help. They are already pretty bloody strong on Amia.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Tysonm1
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 12:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Location: England, Lincolnshire
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Quote: Remember, Extra Turn Undead = Extra Divine Armor and Divine Weapon (Whatever that one is). Divine Might! P.S. Also, I want a Paladin summon from the celestial planes that acts like a rogue. T'arr. _________________ Quote: The Tysonm1 is a type of main battle tank designed around the old T-64 chassis using an untested armor called Spam.
Spam armor for all intents and purposes is only limited to the size of the internet.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 13:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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This topic has run its course.
Done when its done.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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