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[ 17 posts ] |
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ThayanBastard
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 Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 17:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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was reading the rebuild forum, and saw this in ne of the requests.....
" its a self rebuild not a free"
Afaik, theres no difference other than one doesnt cost anything, has this changed? Are there diff things that each of the three rebuilds will get you?
_________________ 
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 17:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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You can self rebuild how often you like when it gets approved by the DM team, that above phrase is used under the assumption it makes the request easier, mostly for drastic changes.
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ThayanBastard
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 17:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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Ack, i searched, and found an old thread with this.... Nevermind, tyvm.
_________________
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 17:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Self Rebuild, Free Rebuild and DC Rebuild are all held to the same standard of Role-play backing. In Amias dim past you could make drastic changes with a Self or DC rebuild readily an easily. Indeed fighters would become mages, Bards would become Monks etc. This is -no- longer the case. Drastic changes need to knock the DM team out of the ballpark and into the water and then blow them out of the water.
Very few if any DM's will approve a free rebuild if the changes are drastic and will instead encourage a self or DC rebuild. Free rebuilds are generally for cleaning up mistake feats and abilities etc.
All rebuilds require a detailed RP reason.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 17:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Unless it's recently explicitly changed, that's not quite true Mosh. The DMs made the conscious decision to hold free rebuilds to a higher standard (like special characters), and there should be rather lax control when it comes to self-rebuilds from scratch. I suppose it depends on the DM you ask, but when the rebuild rules were revised and free rebuilds added, the intention was never to stop fighters from becoming mages or anything like that. It's more like going from RDD Paladin to Palemaster (and in general, losing classes or commitments you couldn't get out of just like that). The standard is also looser for self-rebuilds for the IC reason that you're role-playing out the new career training in game as you grind, which is different with instant rebuilds.
That's not to say you don't need RP to support any rebuilds, of course.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 18:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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It has recently explicitly changed if you actually spend time looking through the rebuild forum.
The fact that you have to now request to do a self rebuild is proof enough of this. The standards for all rebuilds are the same.
The expectation is that you provide a valid role-play reason as to why your base intelligence score changed from 13 to 28 and your characters strength dropped from 26 to 10.
The decisions on rebuilds are made on a rebuild by rebuild basis and over the past three/six months the bar has been raised drastically to stop arbitrary changes like the above. Because they are nonsensical to the point of stupidity.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 18:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Charming. Aleph was right all along. The request guidelines need to be updated, if you're correct. This would be the kind of turn in server ideology that should be announced and debated openly rather than smuggled in. Edit: Less than two months ago, Yossarin said this: Quote: With Iron's input, I'll approve of a self-rebuild, but not a free one. Clearly, the standards are not the same. Nor should they be, because no one should be in a position to enforce their taste absolutely on trivial matters. That's what Amia has been all about from day one, after all. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 18:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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IronAngel wrote: smuggled in. Not a nice thing to have happen. Not at all. _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 19:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I guess the issue isn't as dramatic as the above posts might make it seem. The question was whether these rebuilds will get you different things, and Mosh said that the standards are exactly the same. This doesn't seem to be quite true, because major changes are more likely to be approved as a self-rebuild due to their gradual nature (and the fact that DMs couldn't stop inventory-less self-rebuilds even if they wanted to), but it's true that the basic rules of rebuilding apply to all three types. Unless the official rebuild post is outdated, though, you don't need forum requests for self-rebuilds unless a DM specifically tells you so (which is the case with major changes, so it's recommended you check anyway).
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 19:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Quote: (and the fact that DMs couldn't stop inventory-less self-rebuilds even if they wanted to) I just read one of the said requests and I'm starting to agree there needs to be some measure of control for life changing events that shake heaven and earth. Imagine I requested to self-build my pure bard character from scratch, then boom!, 1 week later epic cleric/bg/bard powerbuild. Lost 99% of spoony bardiness that has been part of the character for years and into a pvp-machine overnight. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 19:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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I don't think that you can just delevel to 1 ingame so easy nowadays without the DM asking you about your intentions. A couple months ago I usually asked for "/dm I need a dm_giveXP -XXX bitchslap, please". Today I wanted to correct a skilldump mishap and PoS asked what I intend with that one level.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 19:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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That's not standard policy, mind, but I do like taking a moment to double-check what's going on, just in case.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 20:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Well, you're right, Iron, there has been a gradual change in how seriously we're taking rebuilds. Actually, that change has been, I believe, across the board with all requests. I feel like we're a little more particular about what we approve of, and I feel like that happened when I finally got off my ass and started taking an active role in the "requests" process. I have really high expectations and I'm somewhat demanding and I struggle for things to make sense and not be stupid - a personal view, of course, but I think my personal view carries a good aesthetic.
You'll be interested in another quote of mine: I think just yesterday I said I was tired of approving bad nonsensical rebuilds just because they're selfers, and so denied it (for now, unless my mind is blown and therefore changed).
I'm just one jerkoff, blowhard DM, though, and I can be easily overruled if I don't compromise my standards in the interest of the game on my own (as I have done at times).
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 21:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, part of the pointlessness of regulating self-rebuilds very tightly is that anyone can just remake the character without an inventory change, and there's not much you could do about that even if you wanted to. The player can always claim the two characters aren't numerically identical and therefore it's not a rebuild you can interfere in; the two PCs just happen to share a name, background, looks, personality and friends. Of course, this is difficult to pull off if you have faction connections and such to maintain, but I'd probably still do it just to spite the guy who denied by rebuild.  And in all seriousness, as absurd as my example may seem, it's exactly what several players do all the time if not as explicitly. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 21:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Yeah, I thought of that, and realized I would just be kinda pissy and cry foul but otherwise nothing serious would come of it. 
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010, 21:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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The standards I'm talking about are pretty simple.
Every rebuild request that involves even a change to base ability or class requires an RP reason. I would not differentiate between Self, Free or DC rebuilds in regards to the RP reason other than to say that more drastic changes may provoke the DM team to push for a self rebuild.
Previously role-play reasons were not a requirement for self rebuilds. It -apparently- is now, based on everything I have witnessed since the free rebuilds became available.
I am not talking about de-levelling. I do not think de-levelling even warrants a request in the forums. I think that approval for de-levelling can be made on a DM to DM basis in game.
As I see it the more drastic changes require exponentially better requests.
Two short paragraphs of OOC to go from Bard to Monk would not and should not qualify you for a rebuild in my book. Its also not about stifling creativity, because its about forcing people to be creative with major rebuild requests. Do remember that rebuilding/muling for people is the shit part of a DM's job. With tighter restrictions on rebuilding more DM time is freed up.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Dec 30 2010, 2:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: (and the fact that DMs couldn't stop inventory-less self-rebuilds even if they wanted to), Quote: Well, part of the pointlessness of regulating self-rebuilds very tightly is that anyone can just remake the character without an inventory change, and there's not much you could do about that even if you wanted to. The player can always claim the two characters aren't numerically identical and therefore it's not a rebuild you can interfere in; the two PCs just happen to share a name, background, looks, personality and friends. Of course, this is difficult to pull off if you have faction connections and such to maintain, but I'd probably still do it just to spite the guy who denied by rebuild I wouldn't suggest testing that theory, just saying.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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