This is one of the more glorious and more importantly helpful responses I've seen in the Request forum that caught my eye enough to spiral off on a tangent:
Yossarin wrote:
Don't be put off. I only have a problem with the glowing eyes, not the rebuild (save for the reason for the rebuild, messing up a spell, no, you need something better than that).
Here's my beef with your glowing eyes, and hear me out on this:
Glowing eyes are otherworldly. They are weird. They are strange. You cannot turn them on and off like a light switch. They do not make you a paragon of light and of your deity. They make you a FREAK.
IC, we've discussed Renais' "role" in her own faith. Where does the line fall in proselytizer, priest, paladin, protector, penitent, peacekeeper, etc.?
From what I recall of interacting with her, she wants to be the glue. She wants to be the figurehead, the one who can direct and
inspire others...to borrow a metaphor from the Lathandran faith, to spark their inner fire and cultivate it into a brilliance. This means you fill a rather classical role of shepherd tending to a wanting/needy flock.
This means that you are the VOICE of your god...but not the face. Speak with the compassion and wonder of the Morninglord, but do so with a human face (a human mask), so that those who listen with their ears can relate with their eyes. They cannot relate to an "inhuman, uncanny creatures with glowing eyes," for no matter how you cut it, that's almost exactly how you'll be seen.
My personal beef is that wings and glowing eyes and tails are chintzy, but that's not a reason to deny anyone's request, really (though it does make me INSANE about demanding a good goddamned reason).
In your case, I think glowing eyes actually hurt your cause, and you maybe don't see that. They're over-the-top, they make you out to be more "special" than you actually are, they do not set you above, they set you apart (outside), rather than inside where you belong.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53965I won't presume to know how the player felt about it, but to me - it's everything I would hope to read in a rejection of an idea. Yoss not only laid out the aspects he felt were awkward and ill-suited, but was supportive and encouraging of the core idea of the character in the first place; defending it, even.
I don't expect that every DM (including Yoss) does this every time for every Request; there's a ton of work to go through in just the forums that are visible to players, let alone the ones that aren't.
For me, and I would go so far as to assume for many other players, the frustration of rejection or denial is not near as strong as the
frustration of not knowing what wasn't up to snuff, or why it wasn't in our request when it's shot down with a blunt "No".
(Yes, I have Tormak in mind here, but he isn't the only one, nor is this a snipe at him.)"No"
(and its various permutations) breeds frustration faster than just about anything else, not because of the denial but because there is no tangible or revealed reason for it. "No" does not permit recourse or adjustment to tell us in any way what the issue might be so it can be addressed. The "No" has been delivered in response to anything from a small, but significant mechanical aspect that is entirely independent of the rest of the request, to encompassing the entire concept of a request. - but there is no way to distinguish that.
"No" has also been used more sparingly in the last few months, as far as I can tell, which is awesome - but it's still around more than I think it needs to be.
In a way, I post this thread with the intention of it being under Improving Amia because I feel it absolutely would go lengths to avoid unnecessary friction between DMs and the players.
This tangent isn't to elevate Yoss on a pedestal and/or scold the other DMs, however; it's really just about drawing attention to that we are receptive to feedback and we
want it. We
need it. We aren't mind-readers, and frankly a lot of times we aren't even that good reading between the lines or the subtext. What we, and in turn everyone involved, benefits from is concise and clear responses - what looks okay, what could use improvement (the opinion section), what absolutely is not okay and must be addressed and why. Players look to DMs for answers, and when met with discouragement without apparent reason - or worse, mockery - that reach out quickly turns into antagonistic behavior that will only hasten the burn-out of DM and Player alike.
To quote Wakaman and offer a blunt look at our discussion of this:
wakawakawakawakaman wrote:
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53438
This one was helpful to the PC, and spot on.
Oh. And svensk's werewolf request, where there was incredible feedback.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=52679
The empathist or whatever is a good thread, too.
That's this one:
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53046
And...
Tormak's response here: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53937
Quote:
Gers: I'd say it needs some modification to be more in line with Lathanderism. This sounds more like something a Grumbar-worshipper would pray for. It need a more religious component as well.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53438Quote:
Lally: Thing is, what we...well at least what I look for is someone that hits it out of the park on the first swing. If enough people give you pointers you'll wind up being able to put together a really lore strong request, which is something I'd rather approve had you done that in the beginning. That's why these characters are request only. They need a lot of creativity and wow factor, plus the knowledge to play them.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=52679Quote:
Also, Yoss's post later in that thread: My approval is not just for you. It is mostly for other people, your fellow roleplayers and the community who might have their otherwise mundane experiences turned just that much more interesting with the intervention of a tortured lycanthrope. Your PC gives Selunites a reason to be Selunites. Your PC gives beast hunters their most dangerous game.
Your PC gives overthinkers like myself a morsel to gnaw on like the clean white of a thighbone. That said, I want you to keep that in mind with the character.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=52679Quote:
Yoss: I believe empathy operates on awareness rather than unawareness. It is a bit like aura reading, in that you need to have something to read in order to know its aura. I think if visual or audible contact is made then you have the capacity to comprehend another's emotional state. Otherwise, you're treating emotions like they are radio waves, which is reductive and metagame-y,
so I'm still a no.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53046Quote:
Tormak here: Oh, so it's totally OOC and has nothing to do with the thematic dichotomy of being a jack of all trades, master of all fors, able to turn into everything and yet having an affinity for a common, specific, iconic weapon and tol completely counter and interestingly so to the idea of being a mutable shifter.
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53937Quote:
Letum: I'm a little wavery on that last one because of the sarcasm with which it was presented. I think presentation is a huge part of the issue most of the time.
Wakaman: I dunno. To me it's about presentation, in some ways, but in most ways it's about how much guidance players are given. I think in many cases, players are either very young, don't have sourcebooks, or just need a huge kick in the arse (with the kick trajectory in the right direction) to really get into good and thoughtful RP.
Quote:
Quote:
Also, Tormak: I'm implying that a shifter's shifting power is neither arcane nor divine, it is Supernatural. Druid or not. A Druid must follow their oath of course, but a shifter can be a shifter and never touch a druid oath and indeed break every Druid oath and still be able to shift (See: cory Shadowflame).
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53230
It's just. bam. It explains exactly what the problem is, in a clear, concise and professional way. And it's highly, highly informative.
I think that the great thing about these threads is that the DMs saw that an effort had been made and made comprehensive and clear comments about how and why their opinions were as they were. And they did so respectfuly and constructively.Initially, I was going to PM Yoss about his post that I quoted at the top of this thread, but I discouraged myself from doing so on the fear of the intention being misconstrued. In the process of talking with wakaman, my motivation to do so was rekindled and I decided that this doesn't need to be a PM; it's not an issue after all.
When everything is said and done, after the criticism and praise, this is really a Thank You and it's one that everyone, Player and DM, should be able to see. We see and hear you, and we appreciate it when you see and hear us. We do appreciate the effort put into answers, and the efforts made on the presentation to make the medicine less bitter when it does need to be swallowed.
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