To make it brief, are they, or are they not undead? And is there any way a Cleric or Paladin would be able to test such a thing?

They do get turned, but (Correct me if I'm wrong) I think it's only because mechanics-wise, they are the same. This is what gets me so confused

kelemvorites summon outsiders?? you could have fooled me. you mean celestial outsiders right?

I'd rather not comment on what I think about this sort of RP, paladins are far too pvp heavy with it. lawful my tooth, just like I said ICly.

kelemvorites are forever cussing shadowdancers and protecting the forest as of late, so I assume shadows are on the -bad necromancer- list in kellies eyes, though SD shadows are not undead.

I have to assume they summon celestials, if not, I can now legitimatly call them all hypocrites ICly once I discover the kellies book of laws ICly. I have no complaint I just prefer my freedoms in character and dislike being wrongly accused of things. =)

I don't drink anymore ? O_o

kelemvorites, it has been said they summon outsiders, is that exclusivly angels and other celestials, or do they slyly summon planars such as shadows and elementals aswell?

"- Creation, animation or conjuration of Undead" <-- high heresy, oocly, from the icly book. this doesn't nessicarrily include planars but ICly you could have fooled me from kellies general attitued toward...alot of summons and shifts and such.

i'm not sure thats entirely accurate, demons and devils they do have a problem with from what i've seen, if they themselves are summoning them, well, blow me down. maybe I need to read a bit more about the kellies.

I see a long thread that has a lot of text about things that should have been said/done/left in-character!

There are quite a few examples of summoners who has not had enough knowledge of what they were doing, and thus suffered for it.

Not to mention a cleric with Death domain would have some clue of what it entails.

I'm rather questionable about this ... I'd imagine they'd have to know at least some of what they are doing to cast a spell, and would recognise an entire school of magic at least.

If they get turned, they are undead.

Ask your local kelemvorite, the answer usually is to smite just to be sure.

In D&D, a class is like something from the job system on Amia: a wizard has to seek things to grow in his craft. He has to know all the basics of weave manipulation from which the rest grows, which takes years of study and so on. Similarly, clerics are devoted to their gods and gain power through acts that value their god. But it's NWN: you pick a class as a method of killing things.

You can't expect people to know all the arcane stuff even if it's in their character's field, but people who choose to play "specialists" should know at least a little bit.

In D&D, depending on the class and the known rituals, I don't think casters are limited to 1 creature type per level of summoning, are they? Like a wizard can learn to summon a dire rat and a petal fey, it's just going to a different plane/place to bind it.