AMIA ARCHIVE
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/

Languages?
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49547
Page 1 of 2

Author:  Liz [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 4:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Languages?

What languages can a character be assumed to know? Does the Amia consensus on this match the 3rd-Edition PnP D&D rules?

For reference...
The PnP Rules wrote:
All characters know how to speak Common. A dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, half-orc, or halfling also speaks a racial language, as appropriate. A character who has an Intelligence bonus at 1st level speaks other languages as well, one extra language per point of Intelligence bonus as a starting character.

The spark that causes me to ask this question... My drow character happened to be within earshot of two elves speaking in elven about drow (and saying not-very-nice things). Because I come from a PnP background, it had never even occurred to me that my character might not be fluent in elven (in PnP, a drow's automatic languages are common, elven, and undercommon). So I barged into the conversation, yammering happily away in the snooty surfacer elves' mother tongue, and was immediately rewarded with the charming little OOC snipe, " // strange how many drow have somehow managed to learn elven." As though a drow is somehow not an elf, or the elven tongue is somehow a closely-guarded secret. Anyway, /rant off. :)

And yes, before someone brings it up, I know that saying something like "[elven] I'm a poncy little faerie!" is not supported by the mechanics, so it's arguably much like the grapple check "rules" or the paladin detect evil "ability," in that these carryovers from PnP require the consent of other players to have any IC meaning at all. This isn't really my question. :) What I'm trying to do is gauge the popular consensus, so as to avoid the sort of OOC bicker-bait I stumbled into... I'm not asking whether talking in other languages is legit; I'm completely willing to accept that it is.

Author:  Yurell [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 4:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

There is no hard-rule for languages. Most people go loosely 1 language per int modifier as a rule of thumb, but it's definitely not a rule.
Basically, keep it reasonable.

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

That's the way I do it. Common + racial languages + INT bonus languages.

Such as:
Arkady - Common, Celestial (racial), Draconic, Elven (intelligence)

or Leeri, for another example. Common and then Draconic, Elven, and an as-of-yet-unlearned language (who needs anything other than Draconic and Elven, ever?)

Author:  Azarius [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

from the 3 people I saw strike up a conversation in draconic with a kobold without wings to indicate dragon disciple or whatever I'd say everyone just pretends they can speak anything lol

Author:  Azarius [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:40 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Colapops wrote:
That's the way I do it. Common + racial languages + INT bonus languages.

Such as:
Arkady - Common, Celestial (racial), Draconic, Elven (intelligence)

or Leeri, for another example. Common and then Draconic, Elven, and an as-of-yet-unlearned language (who needs anything other than Draconic and Elven, ever?)


and what is the rp reason for your characters knowing draconic?

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Draconic is an ancient and extremely widespread language. Its alphabet is used for all manners of arcane texts, runes, calligraphy, and such things in general, and many, many races speak it as their own primary language. In fact, an adventurer who doesn't know Draconic is probably putting him or herself at a distinct disadvantage, unless they're brainless barbarians who don't read anyways.

Anyone who deals with kobolds, troglodytes, lizardfolk, and any of the hundreds of other dragon-related races needs to know it. Anyone who deals with ancient history, lore, and magic needs to know it.

Image

Author:  Zinovy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

There is no education system in FR, and why would kobolds teach their language to any random human that asked? This is one of those Amia things. That's rather off-topic, though, since it was a reply at a personal jab/question.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I'm searching google for the actual Slyvan language =) so far I've found a sort of cypher where each letter is a partial.

IE.

"Miyi Naarminev Isa'ta, Evali'Xavazathaista, but you can call me Él'xzi *smiles* [Slyvan] my name is Evali'Xavazathaista...."


acceptable or no? =D there are a few variant words and phrases aswell, but i've read its not actual elven. this reminds me of al bhed...sort of.

to be clear, glyph doesn't know slyvan yet XD its the familiar.

ev drydc hud guum E cunno v_v

also, how do custom text macro's work? its sort of a mission to say hello in slyvan lol, would be nice to have a couple of words like hello and bye ready.

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:26 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Zinovy wrote:
There is no education system in FR, and why would kobolds teach their language to any random human that asked? This is one of those Amia things. That's rather off-topic, though, since it was a reply at a personal jab/question.


This is so very, aggressively ignorant of any point I made above that I really don't know how I could rationally respond to it without frothing at the mouth. I thought you knew better, Vhati.

Glyph wrote:
how do custom text macro's work? its sort of a mission to say hello in slyvan lol, would be nice to have a couple of words like hello and bye ready.


Don't do this. While it might be neat or fun at first, it's really obnoxious when characters actually speak the non-Common language, because, well, it's not English, and it takes more effort to say "Kual'chx hxaeuhsux Zzxuhza hauaz vchaucan" in Drow and then translate it back to whoever you're talking to than it does to use, [Drow]: "I'm hungry," instead.

Author:  Azarius [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Zinovy wrote:
There is no education system in FR, and why would kobolds teach their language to any random human that asked? This is one of those Amia things. That's rather off-topic, though, since it was a reply at a personal jab/question.


this, draconic should NOT be an easy language to learn. It should also, imo, not be just rped as known unless you have something in your history to indicate it would be learned or have actually spent extensive time rping it.

knowing a language 'because its useful' is rather... lame.

Author:  Liz [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:44 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Azarius wrote:
knowing a language 'because its useful' is rather... lame.

Why? It happens all the time. I learned Spanish because it was useful. And not from an "educational system," either; I obtained the resources on my own, and asked my Spanish-speaking co-workers (who were the reason learning the language was useful in the first place) to talk to me in Spanish.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

which is why I did it for them afterward with [sylvan] " "

but I see your point.

L'armieva... [sylvan] Lame...

Author:  Yurell [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Azarius wrote:
Zinovy wrote:
There is no education system in FR, and why would kobolds teach their language to any random human that asked? This is one of those Amia things. That's rather off-topic, though, since it was a reply at a personal jab/question.


this, draconic should NOT be an easy language to learn. It should also, imo, not be just rped as known unless you have something in your history to indicate it would be learned or have actually spent extensive time rping it.

knowing a language 'because its useful' is rather... lame.


You do realise that draconic is a bonus language for a lot of classes, especially arcane? Add to that, the only reason most people know any language is because it's useful.

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:52 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Lizzie wrote:
Why? It happens all the time. I learned Spanish because it was useful. And not from an "educational system," either; I obtained the resources on my own, and asked my Spanish-speaking co-workers (who were the reason learning the language was useful in the first place) to talk to me in Spanish.


You know what'd be great? If you could, like... get a job speaking another language. Like translating stuff, maybe? Man, that'd be sweet. I think I'm onto something here. A real use for knowing another language as part of a job-skill set. But what job could possibly use that???

Sigh. It's too bad learning a language because it's useful is lame...

Author:  Zinovy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Quote:
asked my Spanish-speaking co-worke


Other than on Amia, not many adventurers have kobold co-workers. Learning an entire language takes time and dedication, as well. Lame or not, it takes away from the exotic aspect that it's openly chooseable as a language - or it would be, if more than half of the population of Amia wasn't planetouched in some way.

Quote:
any point I made above


I can't respond to any refutations to my last post, since no reasoned ones were made.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

yep, however...

Quote:
Most magical script is written in a mixture of Draonic and Infernal. Draconic symbols resemble a mix between old celt runes and kanji if they got drunk and had a baby.

Elven mages tend to write their spells and research in old elven, which is the language of the grey elves

Thayvians write all their spells and research in old empire script. This is incredibly hard to read or decipher.


noting the coloured parts, you'll see they are not draconic, elven, etc languages, they are different languages.

ninj-

there is an education system, theres the linguist sat outside cordor near the kobolds, and if you know a language you can teach it RPly, if your well versed in it, IE your first or second language depending on INT...

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 6:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Zinovy wrote:
Other than on Amia, not many adventurers have kobold co-workers. Learning an entire language takes time and dedication, as well. Lame or not, it takes away from the exotic aspect that it's openly chooseable as a language - or it would be, if more than half of the population of Amia wasn't planetouched in some way.


The Speak Language skill doesn’t work like other skills. Languages work as follows.

* You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus.
* You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.
* You don’t make Speak Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.
* A literate character (anyone but a barbarian who has not spent skill points to become literate) can read and write any language she speaks. Each language has an alphabet, though sometimes several spoken languages share a single alphabet.


I'm not sure why you're so focused on kobolds either since there are dozens upon dozens of other intelligent races that speak Draconic, some of them friendly! And again, this is ignoring the point that Yurell and I have both made, in that Draconic is not at all exotic in the setting.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

sure but you don't suddenly gain a language ICly because your int went up.

Author:  Yurell [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Draconic, for example, is often taught from mages to other mages, because it's an extremely useful language for magic. Why do kobolds need to come into this?
Many languages have utilisation other than their native speakers, and even then why should you assume that no one would know them? It wouldn't surprise me if the major libraries had dictionaries (sorry couldn't recall the right word) in every language.

Author:  Yurell [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Glyph wrote:
sure but you don't suddenly gain a language ICly because your int went up.


Nice strawman - no one's advocating that.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:07 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

i'm just saying, I know you can choose as many as you want to start with but its also one of those "needs training: yes" skills

Author:  HellScourge [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

If you have a +4 Int you can choose equally many language skills, if your Int mod raises later you can learn new languages with proper training, and as someone once worded it "Not say you learned dwarven in one night by drinking with one.".

I don't really see the problem there.

Author:  Zinovy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:10 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Possibility = plausability = norm. Got it. Like I said, an Amia thing.

Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:12 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

HellScourge wrote:
If you have a +4 Int you can choose equally many language skills, if your Int mod raises later you can learn new languages with proper training, and as someone once worded it "Not say you learned dwarven in one night by drinking with one.".

I don't really see the problem there.


There's no problem at all. There's just some bizarre, counter-intuitive subset of Amians who want everyone to be level 1 human mud farmers, 8 in every stat, who never leave their hometown and don't know what magic is.

Author:  xordae [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:16 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Draconic is so common in the arcane arts that any mediocre Wizard can teach you it. At this point, all the Kobolds in the world could basically hole up and sulk and it wouldn't matter.

As for starting Int = number of languages.. you need it in your backstory, that is all. If it's an outlandish language that's unreasonable to learn, people might look at you funny. But there is no DM supervision on this, basically they aren't touching the whole language thing.

Author:  Rorg's many talons [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:21 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

The Player's Handbook wrote:
Bonus languages: A wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. Many ancient tomes of magic are written in Draconic, and apprentice wizards often learn it as part of their studies.


IronAngel from viewtopic.php?p=794179#p794179 wrote:
1 Language/Int modifier doesn't apply on Amia, period. It has never been a rule nor an official recommendation (though individual DMs may encourage it). Common sense and good taste takes priority, but those who lack any can use it as a guideline.


Other threads related to this:

Relative difficulty of learning languages?
Languages
Learning Languages IC

Author:  Rorg's many talons [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Lizzie wrote:
What I'm trying to do is gauge the popular consensus, so as to avoid the sort of OOC bicker-bait I stumbled into... I'm not asking whether talking in other languages is legit; I'm completely willing to accept that it is.

In general, it appears that there is no popular consensus. As with most things; doing what makes sense for your character within the scope of the rules is the best you can do - there will always be someone who disagrees, as with any large community of individuals.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I met a dwarf who was speaking actual dwarvern, it was very well done RP and I could understand -some- of it oocly, and icly at the time, if I knew dwarven ICly I would have "tell" "can you tell me what your saying clearly my character knows dwarvern ^_^ " no big deal at all, though dwarvern isn't as confusing as drow.

Author:  Zinovy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:30 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Quote:
There's just some bizarre, counter-intuitive subset of Amians who want everyone to be level 1 human mud farmers, 8 in every stat, who never leave their hometown and don't know what magic is.


Again, not my point. If swagger is your only argument, then don't answer my posts, because I'm only explaining a point of view from most non-Amian settings I've played in, not trying to make your playstyle illegal.

Yes, many mages know draconic - counter to that alot of them don't and focus on the elven high magic (just as an example, because I apparently have to specify this). Just because it's useful and possible doesn't mean it's available and given to everyone - in most settings; on Amia you can ask the orc/dragon/celestial standing on the street corner. In other settings, there is such a thing as rare lore and the library isn't tantamount to having the internet.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

...I get the level 8 stats part but mud farmers? what game you playing?

Author:  Liz [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:27 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Zinovy wrote:
Quote:
asked my Spanish-speaking co-workers
Other than on Amia, not many adventurers have kobold co-workers. Learning an entire language takes time and dedication, as well. Lame or not, it takes away from the exotic aspect that it's openly chooseable as a language - or it would be, if more than half of the population of Amia wasn't planetouched in some way.

Yeah, they really do. Our job is "adventurer," and I've had kobold co-workers dozens upon dozens of times.
Zinovy wrote:
Zinovy wrote:
any point I made above
I can't respond to any refutations to my last post, since no reasoned ones were made.
This is the kind of sniping that makes people not want to post honest questions. I'm not intending to start an argument here, I'm just trying to have a conversation. If you can't participate constructively, please see yourself out.

Author:  BrainSplitter [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 9:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Sniping that will get this thread locked.


Languages on Amia are simple. Common sense, and self regulation. This isn't likely to change any time soon.

Author:  The Peacock [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 11:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

That Sylvan cypher is pretty damn lame for a language. It uses the exact grammar of english, but instead, is more inefficient by means of how frickkin long it is.

Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 12:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Isadaíossata...

that was one of many different versions of -elven- I saw, and some words are unique, and there is grammer. I started today.

and its lame? at least its better than al bhed where its literally the english language with letters swapped.

Author:  QPR [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Be cool, use sindarin. Atleast it's an actual language.

Author:  Uberuce [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Glyph wrote:
I met a dwarf who was speaking actual dwarvern, it was very well done RP and I could understand -some- of it oocly, and icly at the time, if I knew dwarven ICly I would have "tell" "can you tell me what your saying clearly my character knows dwarvern ^_^ " no big deal at all, though dwarvern isn't as confusing as drow.
Someone actually bothered to learn it? I'm scared enough by Opustus' manhours spent learning broad Scots, let alone someone going for the fictional language.

Author:  HellScourge [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Uberuce wrote:
Glyph wrote:
I met a dwarf who was speaking actual dwarvern, it was very well done RP and I could understand -some- of it oocly, and icly at the time, if I knew dwarven ICly I would have "tell" "can you tell me what your saying clearly my character knows dwarvern ^_^ " no big deal at all, though dwarvern isn't as confusing as drow.
Someone actually bothered to learn it? I'm scared enough by Opustus' manhours spent learning broad Scots, let alone someone going for the fictional language.


I'd say thoose people are on the same level as the ones who speak klingon.

Author:  Red [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Has anyone suggested getting scripted languages like Arelith? That worked perfectly, though it didnt work like PnP (Characters had common, one or two racial languages, and for wizards, Draconic)

I dont think Jjjerm would mind too much if Amia borrowed that filter.

Author:  Dev Disco [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I don't think we should add ways of excluding other players.

Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 14:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Uberuce wrote:
Glyph wrote:
I met a dwarf who was speaking actual dwarvern, it was very well done RP and I could understand -some- of it oocly, and icly at the time, if I knew dwarven ICly I would have "tell" "can you tell me what your saying clearly my character knows dwarvern ^_^ " no big deal at all, though dwarvern isn't as confusing as drow.
Someone actually bothered to learn it? I'm scared enough by Opustus' manhours spent learning broad Scots, let alone someone going for the fictional language.


Weirdly enough, I know more than a few people who have become relatively fluent in tolkienesq Elven ala the Grey Company and similar resources. Never the same people who learned Klingon though. I can only guess there's some kind of west side story gang war between the Klingon and elves, who they probably assume are ancient Vulcans.

(Edit: half-ninja'd)
(Secondary Edit: My phone makes me type like a git.)
*elven nerve pinches and runs*

Author:  Uncle-Opustus [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Pretty eerie to me that some people actually bother to learn fantasy languages. Then again, I've heard many are based on Latin for example, which must make it a lot easier, but still! Couldn't even be arsed to learn the common Drow words if I were to play one, because I could just as well do the "[Drow] Hurhur, hummie taste good!" thing.

Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I think they can be interesting - but, certainly one of my reasons from shying away from Drow as characters is the idea of learning the ..drow slang. Even more perplexing is when I happen to read people speaking in drow and still using drow words... i.e.

Matron X: (drow) blah blah blah vith blah blah dos etc etc..

If you're prefacing it with the fact that you're speaking in drow, then what you type after should be common. Speaking drow within drow seems like one of those weird.. "tear a hole in the fabric of reality" sort of paradoxes.

Of course, I've played on servers where I've had to stay away from the elven RP for the same reason.

Author:  Red [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

In all honesty, its very hard to ignore someone speaking another language when in reality its just <Draconic> Hey, that guy looks weak, lets mug him <Draconic>

Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Red wrote:
In all honesty, its very hard to ignore someone speaking another language when in reality its just <Draconic> Hey, that guy looks weak, lets mug him <Draconic>


I was actually on the other day and witnessed a dwarf suddenly learn elven under just such a circumstance. Is it possible the dwarf studied elven before the pointy-eared folk started talking about his mother? Sure. But I wouldn't count on it. While I hate the arbitrary nature of the "who knows what" Arelith-type language system, it was at least useful in situations like that.

Author:  Logicality [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I know someone who's made a very basic language for a PnP game. It was fun gradually figuring out parts of it as the game went on, and using that information to more effectively advance toward our goals.

Author:  Red [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Exactly, there is no good way to keep people from metagaming languages. I dont feel comfortable typing in another language around people who obviously didnt know it until something that relates to them comes up.

Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I think I've only had one character who knew any languages more than they should by default..and that would be my rogue, in who's backstory is an elven lass with which he had some familiar acquaintance. Thus he knows about three words of elven, and none of them can be used in polite company.

Some of the most fun I have had RPing was running around with a ghostwise hin girl who didn't speak common. It was actually a blast watching all the complications arise from lack of basic communication skills.

Author:  Red [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

I believe one of the most fun characters I ever witnessed was a female who was mute and dumb, who didnt react to any language spoken directly to her except for obvious physical actions like pointing or smiling.

Brilliance...

Author:  Ace of Swords [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 18:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Red wrote:
Exactly, there is no good way to keep people from metagaming languages. I dont feel comfortable typing in another language around people who obviously didnt know it until something that relates to them comes up.


The DMFI Wand Package contains language widgets and scripts to implement additional/custom languages. And honestly I'd be quite happy to see a translation system in place and can speak quite well of experience with the DMFI system, both from the perspective of a developer and a player.

However,
Dev Disco wrote:
I don't think we should add ways of excluding other players.

sort of precludes it anyway, even if someone were to isolate the language portions alone. So I predict the onus will remain on the playerbase to not metagame the information or randomly decide they know language XYZ. Sadly, a significant portion of the playerbase is not mature enough to handle this responsibility. You could, of course, keep it to party chat- but that creates even more exclusivity than a language system would.

Author:  TormakSaber [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 18:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Languages?

Quote:
The DMFI Wand Package contains language widgets and scripts to implement additional/custom languages. And honestly I'd be quite happy to see a translation system in place and can speak quite well of experience with the DMFI system, both from the perspective of a developer and a player.


We used to use DMFI on Amia. Compared to what we have now the DMFI is stone age, laggy, and not organized at all. In fact I'd sooner see Disco package up what we got and sell it as DMFI 2.0 because it takes up less space ina MD's nventory and it about fifty times awesome.

The language stuff involves making follower PCs and the "languages" are nothing but garbled ciphered english made to look thematically like the language it's supposed to represent. Lots of vowels for Elven and Fey, lots of hard x's, v's, and z's for draconic, etc.

To mention the first post: Drow is separate from Elven, as far as Amia is concerned, just like Common and Undercommon are different.

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/