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Just Curious
https://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49528		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  stolenamia [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 16:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Just Curious
I have looked around a bit and couldn't find anything. Has there been any discussion amongst the team to open Amia up to PC's being able to go up to 40th level.
Author:  Mahtan [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 16:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Amia will always be lvl 30 due to the balance of the entire server. The Balance team wont go redo the entire game for lvl 40s.

Plus all the builds myself and many others can pull off with 40 lvls will make the game (PvM and PVP) cake for several builds and hell for the rest if the game is scaled to them. It's good where it is right now.
Author:  Liz [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 17:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Agreed. I'm a fan of the lvl cap because it makes many of the powergamer sort, for whom their characters are just a spreadsheet chart with 40 rows, not want to play here. "What, you mean I can't get Epic Dodge and Dev Crit and all five levels of Self-Concealment? Bogus, I'm never playing on Amia!" Good riddance to that sort, sez I.
Author:  Silvarus [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 17:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I have always been slightly frustrated by the level cap but I certainly agree with Mahtan about why it is there...

There are such horrors I could do with just 10 more levels to build with.
Author:  Lord-Hadeis [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 17:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I love the level cap. Infact if it ever became a lv40 server. I'll be gone.
Author:  HellScourge [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 17:59 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Lizzie wrote:
Agreed. I'm a fan of the lvl cap because it makes many of the powergamer sort, for whom their characters are just a spreadsheet chart with 40 rows, not want to play here. "What, you mean I can't get Epic Dodge and Dev Crit and all five levels of Self-Concealment? Bogus, I'm never playing on Amia!" Good riddance to that sort, sez I.


This.

hadeismetirion wrote:
I love the level cap. Infact if it ever became a lv40 server. I'll be gone.


And that.

Very much agree with the two. At level 30 you still can feel powerful but everything above just gets worse and worse.
Author:  Pony [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 18:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I would be for lowering it to level 20. >.>
Author:  Lord-Hadeis [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 18:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I wouldn't mind that either.
Author:  stolenamia [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 19:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Thats a good reason. Thanks for the answer
z
Author:  Glyph [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 20:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
we do not need 20 monk/20 -spellcaster- builds here, 30 is perfect.
Author:  Yurell [ Sun, Jul 25 2010, 22:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
KrautBoy wrote:
I would be for lowering it to level 20. >.>


Ditto.

I remember this coming up a while ago, and Uce sayig the sort of monsters he'd need to stop his own builds would smash basically anyone but a hardcore powergamer (not in those words, of course) ... the power level between powerbuild and a non-powerbuild increases dramatically as level does.
Author:  Gunz [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:05 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I'd rather it be 20 or 25 level cap myself. But it's alright at 30 and it's taken this long to balance the server to level 30 as it stands now. I'd rather the cap stay at 30, than have to redo everything for a 20 or 25 level cap, let alone a 40 level cap.
Author:  Logicality [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:08 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Had Amia not already crossed into epic territory, it would probably have been better to stay capped at 20. However, it would be disastrous to lower it now. Would all epic characters be entitled to a free rebuild? If not, I can see a lot of people getting pissed off. If so, I question the sanity of the staff.
Author:  Selvec Darkon [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I'm fine with being dropped to 20 if everyone else is going to be.

*Says the guy with the simple Fighter/WM build.*
Author:  The Cobbit [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
It would be ridiculously difficult to move the level cap either way. The countless man-hours spent balancing the server's monsters, gear, and summons all take into account a level 30 cap. Not to mention the large majority of players who meticulously plan their builds with an ECL 30 in mind, so DM events would come to a crawl while they helped everyone rebuild. IC reasoning for everyone losing their epic abilities, or suddenly becoming so much more god-like?

Way too much work, fine as it is, don't worry about it.
Author:  Colapops [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:42 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
The Cobbit wrote:
IC reasoning for everyone losing their epic abilities, or suddenly becoming so much more god-like?


Spellplague.
Author:  The Cobbit [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 3:53 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Shh, we're pretending that doesn't exist.
Author:  Gunz [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 5:07 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Well said. In the wise words of The Beatles: Let it be. ::nods::
Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:19 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
hell no, that is all.
Author:  Bjorn [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
lvl 20 cap

Thats what I support wholeheartedly... less grind, less epicness.
Author:  MadrikVale [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
If it isn't broken...
Author:  xordae [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:28 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Support it all you like, but the level cap is never gonna change.
Author:  Nekhy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
The reasoning that we don't up the level cap is that there's too many variables to take into account for rebalancing, ergo it's too much work to bother with and would probably take a few years to get somewhere near right. Not worth it. It's not so much of an ideological reason we don't do it, in the end (though I guess for individuals it may be).

Same reasoning holds for not lowering the level cap, naturally. Tis a bit illogical to oppose upping the cap and then talk of lowering it, if you ask me...
Author:  Jan [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Lower the level cap to 20, raise the party cap to 10, leave the spawns as is, sit back and watch the carnage.
Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
enjoy your level 18 sub races if you do >_> stop this madness!
Author:  Nekhy [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Yes, the carnage of the CPU core melting down. Big parties are one primary lag source, imagine what they do on hunting grounds...
Author:  Dev Disco [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I don't think we can even remember who made the decision to keep it at 30 (probably done way back in Arelith times) but it's clear that a change in any direction would mean a lot of work.
Author:  Glyph [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I hate to pick sides but I can't agree with this, and one very good reason I can think of is the job system. 30 points of jobs 30 points of adventurer levels, it would drop that to 20 aswell and mean you get one master job and 2 useless points...
Author:  Lord-Hadeis [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:36 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Jan wrote:
Lower the level cap to 20, raise the party cap to 10, leave the spawns as is, sit back and watch the carnage.

What makes this awesome, the picture of Putin beside it.

Heck I'd even wouldn't mind a cap at lv 10
Author:  xordae [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Hey guys, let's make the server full PvP.

Image
Author:  Silvarus [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:44 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
xordae wrote:
Hey guys, let's make the server full PvP.

I have always agreed on that, and I still do.
Author:  Lord-Hadeis [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 8:52 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
It would make it more realistic, so I can't argue against it.
But somehow I think Cordor would suddenly get a huge GS like spell over it like it has its' weather shield.
Author:  Kraniumbrud [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
yea im all for the level 20 cap too..dosnt make sense in a faerun world to be higher in either case..
Author:  Pony [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I would love full pvp. Never made sense in my eyes that a fireball exploding 10cm in front of your face does not hurt you as a friend cast it.
Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 15:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I fondly remember an article from way back in the day.. I think it was in Dragon magazine or the like when I played AD&D.. The title was something like "Gandalf is a fifth-level Magic User"

That's always sort of been how I measured campaigns when I do PnP. I have a soft spot for low-level, low-magic settings. They let you do neat things.. like scare players with hoards of orcs or opposing armies. ("The enemy cant have more than a few hundred first-level fighters. I have EWS and Great Cleave, pft.") But that's my personal taste. I can't imagine that would fly here.

Though, I did play one server in which it was perma-death after level 5 (if someone didn't raise you, that is.) In the end, that effectively made a level cap of 10 or so. It is always startling how different people played their characters under such conditions than on respawn-friendly servers.

Of course. If the server glitched or you lagged out..it was a sad, sad day. PvP was terrifying >.>
Author:  MoshingChris [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
If you want to make Amia more hardcore either all or nothing, and this includes Perma-death, resetting everyone to zero, offering no rebuilds on favourite characters, loss of all DC items, removal of the DC system, complete overhaul of the loot system. Basically Amia Killswitch, fresh slate, none of your characters have ever existed.

I play on Amia and return to Amia consistently, because I don't have to worry about this crap. I play on other servers when I do feel like worrying about this crap.

Amia is still the most populated NwN server remember, because it appeals to everyone, not just people who think their RP is good or hardcore.
Author:  brooksthegreat [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
If that was aimed at me in any way, I was musing, not making a suggestion.

I like Amia just the way it is.
Author:  Pony [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
While this may be a bit of a derailing...

To suggest to go extreme friendly to extreme hardcore with no chance of in between appears absolutely baseless, Mosh. Its something that has bugged me a lot in discussions on this server. There is not only 2 options, but middle ways can be taken, just like it was done in many forms.

The reason such things are discussed on a forum, whether they go in or not, is because we as a community (not individuals) do determine which direction the server heads in, in most cases gradually. If this was never the case amia would have not evolved from a place you had devil children and half celestial drow casting hellballs in cordor to a server that monster, noble and child player characters are required to be requested to demand higher standards when playing such characters. A lot of different examples can be given here.

I doubt on this subject itself a change would come as the community does not have a strong majority that feels the server should become full pvp, by my guess, but to dismiss suggestions to evolve the server further from players who take a more "elitist" approach seems to me absolutely ridicules. That is just as foolish to ignore those who roleplay in a more casual and relaxed way.
Author:  hendrack [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Theres no middleground in a hardcore setting. Either vault wipe and reset of everything, or leave it as it is.
Author:  Pony [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I do not think setting the server areas to full pvp for instance would require a vault wipe in any shape or form. There is no mechanical requirement of that to my knowledge nor would it make sense to delete every last character because spells now would effect every creature, not just those outside of the party. Neither would that one change justify in saying that amia would be a hardcore server, as that change is also not bound to the need to enforce permadeath or enforce a level 20 cap. >.>
Author:  xordae [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Hey, you took me seriously even though I posted ducks! What's up with that?

This was to suggest that the server is balanced around level 30 in the same way that it's balanced for Party PvP play. While I really advocate the Full PvP thing just for coolness' sake, it means dealing either with a lot of mechanics that need changed or with a lot of whining. Neither of which is fun.
Author:  Pony [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Completely agreed, but that does not mean you can only have pink pony mode or perma harsh hardcore server vault wipe mode. >.>
Author:  Selmak [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:46 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I can see it now, a forum post entitled Twenty's Plenty, and five bajillion posts of discussion shortly after.

By the time you get to level 40, there really is nothing sensible property-wise that you can add to items anyway. +7 Enhancement, 2d12 acid damage, 2d6 massive criticals, and Keen on a blade only adds up to a level 24 level requirement, and since half those properties aren't actually available on items in the server you will be able to comfortably use any equipment in the game by the time you hit 30, barring any other restrictions.
Author:  The Peacock [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I won't post my opinion on the shit level cap until we have horses.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 16:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
brooksthegreat wrote:
If that was aimed at me in any way, I was musing, not making a suggestion.

I like Amia just the way it is.


Wasn't aimed at anyone. It was my generic opinion of any such
"Full Party PvP"
"Change the level cap to 20"
"This is whats wrong with Amia. . ."
Want any major changes like that, then Killswitch the server because its less work in the long run.

Gabe, full party pvp, i can tell you personally I have 3 - 10 characters I'd want a free rebuild on because they are built with the fact that i can spawn disable without killing my party in mind.

I know maybe 40 builds i've given out that would probably warrant one aswell.

Like i said, if you want full party pvp etc etc etc there are plenty of other servers where you can get your jollies killing your own party members, or getting killed half a dozen times because the skills of the people partying with you just ent that good.
Author:  The Peacock [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 17:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
However, if it does pass, any of those, I will personally oversee Chris sit at his desk balancing out the entire server UNTIL IT IS DONE! No breaks, that way it's done quick smart.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 17:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Ye. Use him Till he burns out. The damned man is leaving soon anyway! The traitor!
Author:  Dwagin [ Mon, Jul 26 2010, 17:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Dev Disco wrote:
I don't think we can even remember who made the decision to keep it at 30 (probably done way back in Arelith times) but it's clear that a change in any direction would mean a lot of work.


Level 40 builds are impossible to balance for and would require an overhaul of Everything to even try. I can smell the cheese already.
Author:  Glyph [ Tue, Jul 27 2010, 0:43 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
I remember why its level 30, because the deitys sometimes come out to play and they (or their chosen minion) are higher levels requiring more than one epic character/brave enough RPer, in fact as many as possible. from what I read in the DM threads oocly I gather the thing near the lake was aswell. pretty sure there we're some npc's above 30 aswell.

your honestly saying you want to kill all epic characters AND delevel monsters AND prevent pnp prestige class emulation, screw the job system, etc.

I would pray if I believed, that this should not happen. if it ain't broke.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Tue, Jul 27 2010, 6:14 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Just Curious
Oh don't get me wrong Glyph, Amia is broken nine ways til Sunday. The only thing that will unbreak is a killswitch, but the time for that has passed. At the moment its workably broken however, rather than totally broken.
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