AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Lizzie encountered a paladin in-game a few days ago, who misinterpreted something she said, giving him cause to question Lizzie's goodness (she is CG). The paladin announced that he was using his "detect evil" ability, which - apparently? - functions like the PnP paladin version of the ability, in that it is always accurate and can be used as often as desired.

Is this actually a thing? Are Amian paladins legitimately allowed to break out of character to inform people that "I'm detecting evil on Lizzie," and am I obligated to accurately state how Lizzie would measure up against the detection? There's nothing in the (updated!) paladin sidebar info indicating that this is legitimate, but the rest of the party I was with at the time seemed to agree that the paladin wasn't out of line for asking for alignment info.

If this is for real, would it be possible for some sort of mechanic to be implemented to replace the annoying breaking out of character? At least in this instance, there was a whole //conversation about it, which wasted time that could have been spent resolving the misunderstanding IC. "I detect evil." "Okay, you don't detect any." "Really?" "Yes, really." "You have to tell me if you're evil, you know." Blah blah blah. And I imagine that this was far from the first time that exact //conversation occurred. Would a Detect Evil widget be possible? Maybe to replace the Summon Mount ability that paladins are supposed to get at lvl 5?

Detect evil can be used as a pnp spell for a paladin, only if the player of the target character allows it.

PnP spells need consent from other players and they may also use spells that hide their alignment as well. So in short, you don't have to tell anyone jack if you don't want to. Anyone demanding anything OOC from you in this regards should be screenied.

hendrack wrote:

PnP spells need consent from other players and they may also use spells that hide their alignment as well. So in short, you don't have to tell anyone jack if you don't want to. Anyone demanding anything OOC from you in this regards should be screenied.

I see... thanks for the info. Maybe a blurb on this should go into the new paladin sidebar info?

Quote:

B1. You cannot expect that players own any DnD materials. The NWN box doesn't list it below "requirements' and neither do the signs in the Entry. If you want to use rules/spells/skills that are not in the sources mentioned in the post above you MUST make sure the involved player agrees with using those rules. You also must make sure every participant is aware of the rules appropriate to the situation, and has read the skill/spell descriptions, and is aware of possible counter-spells and/or counter-skills, so that they can react correctly to what your character is attempting to do.

Source

Quote:

Detect Evil

Divination
Level: Clr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 60 ft. Area: Cone-shaped emanation Duration: Concentration, up to 10 min./ level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No

You can sense the presence of evil. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round: Presence or absence of evil.

2nd Round: Number of evil auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the power of the most potent evil aura present.

If you are of good alignment, and the strongest evil aura’s power is overwhelming (see below), and the HD or level of the aura’s source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.

3rd Round: The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.

Aura Power: An evil aura’s power depends on the type of evil creature or object that you’re detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one strength category, the spell indicates the stronger of the two.

———————— Aura Power ————————
Creature*Object / Faint / Moderate / Strong / Overwhelming
Evil creature1 (HD) 10 or lower 11–25 26–50 51 or higher
Undead (HD) 2 or lower 3–8 9–20 21 or higher
Evil outsider (HD) 1 or lower 2–4 5–10 11 or higher
Cleric of an evil deity 2 (class levels) 1 2–4 5–10 11 or higher
Evil magic item or spell (caster level) 2nd or lower 3rd–8th 9th–20th 21st or higher
1 Except for undead and outsiders, which have their own entries on the table.
2 Some characters who are not clerics may radiate an aura of equivalent power. The class description will indicate whether this applies.

Lingering Aura: An evil aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a creature or magic item). If detect evil is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power:
Original Strength Duration of Lingering Aura
Faint 1d6 rounds
Moderate 1d6 minutes
Strong 1d6x10 minutes
Overwhelming 1d6 days

Animals, traps, poisons, and other potential perils are not evil, and as such this spell does not detect them.

Each round, you can turn to detect evil in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

This is all great info, and I appreciate it... but it occurs to me as I think about it more, that if paladins are more or less "allowed" to Detect Evil, it would still probably be fun and/or useful for paladins to get some sort of Detect Evil widget. At the very least, it would save people from having to break out of character to resolve it.

Of course, it would bring up a whole mess of other issues, but at least they would be IC issues.

Edit: I realized three seconds after I hit "submit" that those thoughts probably belong more in the Improving Amia forum than here.

It's been discussed many, many, many times. No Detect Evil widgets are being made. The current method prevents abuse and allows for players to have their protections and wardings, not all of which could be covered by a scripted widget.

And let's face it.

Paladin + Detect Evil + MASSIVELY evil person = Good times.

BrainSplitter wrote:

It's been discussed many, many, many times. No Detect Evil widgets are being made. The current method prevents abuse and allows for players to have their protections and wardings, not all of which could be covered by a scripted widget.

Okay... sorry, I'm new.

Let me ask a follow-up though... and I realize that what I'm about to say could be read as snarky and sarcastic; please believe that I don't intend it that way.

If it's accepted in-game etiquette that a paladin can just declare that he's using a Detect Evil spell, would it be like wise accepted that my rogue with lots of UMD simply declare that she is using a Detect Evil scroll? Would that be seen as equally appropriate by the community?

DnD is a system built entirely around co-op play, and the use of detect evil on other PCs was not really intended in the first place. While a decent RP hook in a party, the problem with 1.0-3.5 Paladin's has always been they more or less have to smite an evil party member or refuse too work with them.

It is simpler too just remove it in a presistant world with many characters, and have it as an agreed upon RP check.

I think the entire alignment system (as it is written anyways) is silly in the first place. I think that for the most part, all PC races would hover around unaligned, and I only consider good and evil appropriate for creatures such as Angels, Devas, Demons, Devils, etc.

To this day, I still stick by the idea that a paladin can use detect evil on my evil character as long as they take the blowback that would come from it (i.e. the stun).

Drannok wrote:

DnD is a system built entirely around co-op play, and the use of detect evil on other PCs was not really intended in the first place.

This. In big bold letters.

762: Fair play but were Evil PCs meant to be a staplle of Core gameplay by the same token?

Lizzie wrote:

If it's accepted in-game etiquette that a paladin can just declare that he's using a Detect Evil spell, would it be like wise accepted that my rogue with lots of UMD simply declare that she is using a Detect Evil scroll? Would that be seen as equally appropriate by the community?

I think the issue is that that's a divine gift, not so much a scribe-able spell.

Actually is the Paladins Detect Evil a spell like ability, meaning there is a spell of it (Fun fact, there is in BG1).

While the paladin can say he is doing something, it is up to you if he detects anything. If you dont want him doing it, just say "You sence nothing, must be all the pollen in the air"

Though, if he does use it and you let him, mind that it would sniff out any evil on you at all, i think. So if you have one of Kravens books in your bag? You glow.. Some loot you picked up that is evil only.. you glow. Some scroll of Animate Dead, you glow.

Another problem would be who the paladin follows. Cause technically a paladin of Lathandar or kelemvor would of course detect negative energy and call it evil but wouldnt a paladin of mystra not see it as wrong? Cause i believe there are paladins of mystra right?

It's not Detect Negative Energy: It's Detect Evil.

There is an important distinction to be made. Negative Energy is used in many evil spells but by itself, isn't inherently evil.

So what xenos said about a scroll of animate dead. Would that show up as evil to all paladins? No paladins? Or some? Cause isnt it just negative energy used to animate a lifeless body?

BrainSplitter wrote:

It's been discussed many, many, many times. No Detect Evil widgets are being made. The current method prevents abuse and allows for players to have their protections and wardings, not all of which could be covered by a scripted widget.

~~~

Quote:

So what xenos said about a scroll of animate dead.

Quote:

Evil magic item or spell (caster level) 2nd or lower - faint, 3rd–8th - moderate, 9th–20th - strong, 21st or higher - overhwelming

Use the caster level of the scroll and compute as necessary. The spell is "Evil" and so the scroll is too.

I'm going to lock this because the relevant questions have been answered (yes, you can, as long as you have mutual consent and all sides follow the PnP rules) and because further discussion tends to go closer and closer to that singularity.

As a clarification as well, the only thing Detect X detects is X. If you are CG nd they detect evil on you they get a response of "Nothing".

Can Amian Paladins "Detect Evil?"

Who is online