AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Non-Existant Faction?

No church of Cyric? Am I missing something? What's the deal?

There is a Cyric faction on Amia. Or at least of few PCs that travel around.

If you're trying to find them, look IC. It's not like they'd have a huge banner up or anything, seeing as they're supposed to be sneaky...and nearly every other divine faction hates them. Even the other evil ones. >_>

Why is it not on the Wiki as a faction?

Some factions are more secretive than others.

So....if a faction is secretive......then the faction can't be on the wiki? I don't know if that makes any sense.

Reading the wiki is out-of-game, player knowledge (not knowledge gained IC), right?

Murex wrote:

So....if a faction is secretive......then the faction can't be on the wiki? I don't know if that makes any sense.

Reading the wiki is out-of-game, player knowledge (not knowledge gained IC), right?

The wiki is also unofficial and player-maintained.

Well.....okay then. I just may put it up there. I think it needs something to show that it exists.

Yup, the Wiki is all player maintained. My guess is, that the secretive factions have a reason not to put their stuff on the Wiki, btw. They have the choice to do it, but have so far chosen not to.

Well secretive or not, I don't think it matters personally, but I'll contact....somebody who may or may not tell me if they are the leader of the Church of Cyric in hopes of having some display of an established faction on Amia.

I have a L30 Cyricist who has not met the leader of the faction yet. I think this is a bit silly, and I know for a fact it doesn't help the faction when nobody knows anything about this stuff OOC.

And, well...

The Cyricists aren't known for sticking around, or maintaining a faction, to be blunt. I do think Vaylek had it going the biggest, for the longest...correct me if I'm wrong, people that know better.

That whole "Getting banned everywhere you go and killed where you aren't banned" tends to be a pain, and there's not so much plotting as PVPing, in my experience.

And some factions are extremely lazy and cannot be bothered updating faction entries because everytime they do some twit deletes them.

Well, my character could maybe, possibly be the new leader I suppose. I don't really know what is required of me as a player outside of the game. I allready read that stuff on factions, but there is still a lot I don't really know I guess about what I am required to do. I don't want to boot someone off their throne here, but it looks like nobody is sitting in it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

And some factions are extremely lazy and cannot be bothered updating faction entries because everytime they do some twit deletes them.

So you are saying I shouldn't put anything up because it will get deleted?

Murex wrote:

Well, my character could maybe, possibly be the new leader I suppose. I don't really know what is required of me as a player outside of the game. I allready read that stuff on factions, but there is still a lot I don't really know I guess about what I am required to do. I don't want to boot someone off their throne here, but it looks like nobody is sitting in it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

And some factions are extremely lazy and cannot be bothered updating faction entries because everytime they do some twit deletes them.

So you are saying I shouldn't put anything up because it will get deleted?

Saying that unless you have sources or backup, it may. It is a wiki operated by someone who is no longer apart of Amia I believe. Its not under Amia control, dispite several DM's modding it. Use it at your own risk.

I personally have had nothing but negative experiences with the wiki. Having whole entries about my characters deleted with no reason given.

Coincidentally, I just added a post to the wiki yesterday about deleting entries as well as a link to the wiki sysops. If someone has been deleting your posts for no reason, contact one of us. I can only think of a few possible valid reasons to delete someone's entire post. If you do something like that, at least leave a reason why on the Talk page so the moderators can review it.

Maintaining the wiki is a fairly haphazard endeavour, but at least we (the mods) don't go around removing stuff for no reason.

I've been wondering about this too.

Murex, I say take the claim as leader of the Church of Cyric for yourself, soon you will find plenty of RP. Perhaps even with some of those shy little Cyricists.

Kudark wrote:

Murex, I say take the claim as leader of the Church of Cyric for yourself, soon you will find plenty of RP. Perhaps even with some of those shy little Cyricists.

I will do that.

I just don't know if there is anything I have to do other than just claim leader (?).

Make frequent use of the "Caps Lock" button on your keyboard while you are proclaiming who you are in just about any town. Should do the trick.

Hopefully one of them will PM you upon reading this... but from what I know, not much happening in camp Cyric...

I believe most of the Cyric players stopped bothering and became Banites. "Why" is anyone's speculation.

TormakSaber wrote:

I believe most of the Cyric players stopped bothering and became Banites. "Why" is anyone's speculation.

AxlLeigh wrote:

That whole "Getting banned everywhere you go and killed where you aren't banned" tends to be a pain, and there's not so much plotting as PVPing, in my experience.

That's my guess right there. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's how the church is viewed and reacted to IC.

I was purposefully not making guesses and hoping by keeping it vague no one else would make guesses and get into the whole thing. The whys aren't really important here: The current/past Cyrics are mostly gone, so if you want the crown, Mr. Topic Creator, it's likely yours for the grabbing. Go for it. Even if it's not? Do it anyways. Cyric likes that.

Thanks for all the imput. I will try my best at being the faction leader. :mrgreen:

Also, in regards to faction forums, you need a substantial, active faction before this happens. I'm not clear on exact numbers, but I think it's ten individual players over a decent amount of time...anyone who knows, feel free to chip in.

Ten, okay. I'll see what I can do.

If anyone reading this wants to join, PM me or send a tell in game to player: Ataraxis9

Playing a Cyricist is incredibly tricky without pissing off everybody since nearly every established other faction tends to hate you should they find out.

Likewise the chaotic aspect of being evil tends to put people since its rather problematic getting to work without too much fuss. Regardless I'll always have a soft heart for the mad bugger and should you have questions relating to him feel free to ask.

Murex wrote:

Ten, okay. I'll see what I can do.

If anyone reading this wants to join, PM me or send a tell in game to player: Ataraxis9

And over a decent amount of time. We are talking about a year or more with a constant 10 people I believe. After that you won't get the forum taken off you for anything short of complete inactivity, or rule breaking.

Maias227 wrote:

...
Likewise the chaotic aspect of being evil tends to put people since its rather problematic getting to work without too much fuss.
...

I have seen a lot of effort put in creating a Cyricist faction. Over four different attempts. They were short lived,for the reasons stated in the above quote, but incredibly fun and interesting.
You will find it is not easy to handle these CE buggers! ^_^;
This is not meant to disencourage you at all. I believe it will be an enjoyable challenge for you. I wish I had the time to do it myself

------
Vaylek's was the biggest, but not the longest.

AxlLeigh wrote:

That whole "Getting banned everywhere you go and killed where you aren't banned" tends to be a pain, and there's not so much plotting as PVPing, in my experience.

That definitely depends on style of play/personality/other RP-related reasons. In general -and this is my personal opinion- you are wrong. One of the most well developed characters I have ever played was a cyricist, and it was all a result of faction-driven encounters. So, most part of a cyricist's life is pvp? Nuh-uh!

in my experience, AP, those cyricists are in the decided minority.

Take a look at this Murex:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=48197

TormakSaber wrote:

I believe most of the Cyric players stopped bothering and became Banites. "Why" is anyone's speculation.

Green and black is far prettier than purple and pink?

Purple and pink are far better than green and black.. and it gets frustrating playing that kind of faction after a while. For me, there are the reasons outlined in my bio, and the fact that Darth & the old Banites convinced me that that was where I wanted to be with awesome roleplay.

A tip for aspiring Cyricists:

CE isn't Chaotic Stupid. Don't do things that could be construed as griefing or rulebreaking to advance your faction agenda (unfortunately, you'd be surprised how many CE types try to use their alignment as an excuse). This includes stuff like repeated PvP of the same individuals, camping transitions, etc.

Chaotic evil means you embrace any intelligent means of advancing your goals. This includes outright, baldfaced lying, manipulation, turning friends against eachother, assassination, blackmail, giving your word then betraying it, etc. It doesn't include taking unfair advantage of NWN's mechanics or violating server rules.

HellScourge wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I believe most of the Cyric players stopped bothering and became Banites. "Why" is anyone's speculation.

Green and black is far prettier than purple and pink?

Green and black looks nasty. I can't see myself playing a Baneite just because of the colors. I find it hard for any character I make to not wear purple and pink. :lol:

As far as playing a CE Cyric-worshiper, I think I know how to play it well. Trechery, assassinations, lies....yeah, I got it down.

AxlLeigh wrote:

in my experience, AP, those cyricists are in the decided minority.

Well, the data is empirical. Nothing more I could say.

As for Gers' above post ... amen.

I wonder if this topic serves a purpose any more?

Cyric, like Lolth, is one of those deities that make me shudder when you think of the OOC backstabbing behind all of it.

Galenson wrote:

Cyric, like Lolth, is one of those deities that make me shudder when you think of the OOC backstabbing behind all of it.

You sure you aren't confusing OOC backstabbing with IC backstabbing?

Speaking for myself, I really don't know anything about any of the players themselves- at least not to the point where I can know enough to hate them no matter what character they play. I see many 'always on' character names I recognize just from the player list, but I don't even know them or their characters. I hope to never know players to the extant where I seek their characters out to kill them beacuse I dislike their player, that would make me one pathetic human being.

Sadly, I'm sure some people like this exist on Amia. :cry:

Woah... I was missing this topic heh..
Painful topic for me, since I put so much time in keeping the faction alive with some other players.
@Murex PM me or add me on msn if you wanna talk about it. I can give you ton of tips and stuff.

Murex wrote:

You sure you aren't confusing OOC backstabbing with IC backstabbing?

Allow me to lay your mind to ease. Galenson knows whereof he speaks. The git.

Never understood the conversion from Cyric to Bane. You go from being Chaotic to Lawful in a snap of your fingers? What? Really? No that makes no sense.

Honestly now, if someone who was innately drawn to Cyric's chaotic nature can claim to be lawful and join a lawful faction with a lawful god, and not get a kick up the ass every five seconds for being chaotic, then I think something is a little off honestly. Though it explains why half the neutral and good PC's sit around making fun of the Banites for not being Banites.

Lets try to keep faction bashing to a minimum?

Sorry, wasn't faction bashing, or rather didn't mean it as such.

More a confusion at it in general, as it happens in PnP and such to. The conversion from a Choatic god to a Lawful god. The other stuff was just what I saw happening IC.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Sorry, wasn't faction bashing, or rather didn't mean it as such.

More a confusion at it in general, as it happens in PnP and such to. The conversion from a Choatic god to a Lawful god. The other stuff was just what I saw happening IC.

This is a good point, and I witnessed a Baneite not doing what a Baneite should do in a particuliar situation just last night. Some don't seem to be playing their character correctly.

Anyways, I'm allready getting a bit frusterated with dealing with CE characters who lie constantly. I'll continue to keep doing what I'm doing, so I think I'll manage in the long run.

Murex wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Sorry, wasn't faction bashing, or rather didn't mean it as such.

More a confusion at it in general, as it happens in PnP and such to. The conversion from a Choatic god to a Lawful god. The other stuff was just what I saw happening IC.

This is a good point, and I witnessed a Baneite not doing what a Baneite should do in a particuliar situation just last night. Some don't seem to be playing their character correctly.

Anyways, I'm allready getting a bit frusterated with dealing with CE characters who lie constantly. I'll continue to keep doing what I'm doing, so I think I'll manage in the long run.

Err, not quite what I was saying. People can play their character how they like, but it confuses me how someone who worships a chaotic god can worship a lawful god so easily. Wasn't really attempting to have a go at how people play their characters, just that if a character does do something that is chaotic when they worship a lawful god it will put a bad rep on the faction as a whole. Such as what I said about PC's laughing about Banites. Note that's PC's, not people. Characters, not those who play them.

First of all ...

Quote:

What a banite/salandran/cyricist/etc should do.

What the heck?!
There is no SHOULD. Some people -and we can accept that characters are people, in this case- are bound by rules. The rules can be self-imposed or acquired, among other things. The way people react to different situations, under the rules' influence, may not look reasonable to others.
For once, you might see a Cyricist not doing all those things you think or imagine a Cyricist "should" do. That does not mean the player is "playing his PC incorrectly". You, as the observer, have limited knowledge. You will never know what's going on inside a person's head; only the PC's player can claim he does.
And before this turns into another thread on paladin code ethics : even if the other character appears to be doing something that comes in direct comparison to the faction/god or whatever else they represent, we all know there will be proper IC consequences. You act weird, something happens. Everyone makes mistakes... It is only through experience that people learn, that's the way it is.

So instead of saying "should", we could push these guys a bit more, IC-ly. Try to find out why that fellow in black, with the jawless skull on his cape, is cuddling that cub. In character. Not on the forums.

Quote:

Honestly now, if someone who was innately drawn to Cyric's chaotic nature can claim to be lawful and join a lawful faction with a lawful god, and not get a kick up the ass every five seconds for being chaotic, then I think something is a little off honestly. Though it explains why half the neutral and good PC's sit around making fun of the Banites for not being Banites.

As I said, limited knowledge. How can the Banites not be Banites? I can't make any sense. Can a Salandran not be a Salandran?
The fact that these people don't meet your expectations when it comes to "Banite business" (simply using Bane here as an example, this is not intended to be case specific.) does not mean anything. People make their own story. So do factions. The Banites will always be Banites, simply because they are! And they are the only ones who can choose their role in the play. We use canon lore as a base, then build upon it. They don't have to be exactly the same - even if most factions are doing their best to resemble their PnP/novel counterparts.
Again ... no "shoulds".

FR lore can be a very useful aid. It can also be a restriction. Leave lore prejudice behind and see where that gets you. It's a world of opportunity out there

Um, no. Banites are Banites because they worship the god Bane. If they start doing things Bane's Alignment and interests are against, Bane will likely forsake them. In which case they are not Banites in everything but Name. Effectively, making them not Banites, or as the Church is based around, a worship of Bane. To Characters who know that Bane is a lawful god, they effectively do not become Banites, and thus get the reputation as such. If you break away from your gods worship, people will see this and assume you are not a Banite. They may even start laughing about it.

Lore isn't the base though, because that lore is offical Amia lore from my understanding, as it's how the Banites are percieved offshore by the majority of the mainland. As for "how I think a Banite should be played" I never said thats how I think a Banite should be played. I said its how my character see's Banites as being played. My problem is understanding how someone who was innately chaotic suddenly becomes innately lawful, and then goes one step further and devotes themselves to a lawful god. That has nothing to do with lore, and everything to do with common sense.

I cannot agree with you Nae. You cannot say that there is no bounds and that there is no missRP. Cyricists were and are the most missRPed group or individuals on the server. I see it every day. And you know it damn well.

Quote:

So instead of saying "should", we could push these guys a bit more, IC-ly. Try to find out why that fellow in black, with the jawless skull on his cape, is cuddling that cub. In character. Not on the forums.

There it is, in your very sentence. that guy in black with JAWLESS SKULL on his cape. And you cannot simply ignore lore.

EDIT: @Selvec, its not just aligment thing, at least from my point of view. Cyric to Bane? Not really.

AmianPlayer wrote:

FR lore can be a very useful aid. It can also be a restriction. Leave lore prejudice behind and see where that gets you. It's a world of opportunity out there

This. If you just regurgitate what's already in a book/novel/whatever, you may as well just be reading to us out of the canon lore as opposed to creating your own story.

What a bore. To be honest, there's certain things I'd change about every single faction on Amia if I could. But, I would need a reason to do so ICly. I wouldn't do it just based off of some OOC notion as to how things should be ran. If my PC doesn't feel the same way, it won't happen and nothing will be said about it.

As far as religious organizations are concerned (such as the Banites and Cyricists), the DMs will ultimately decide how the PC's should act before they get fallen widgets. That's the long and short of it and everyone should start respecting that people will play their PC's the way they want to.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Um, no. Banites are Banites because they worship the god Bane. If they start doing things Bane's Alignment and interests are against, Bane will likely forsake them. In which case they are not Banites in everything but Name. Effectively, making them not Banites, or as the Church is based around, a worship of Bane.

There is no disagreement there. If and when Bane forsakes them, they are no longer Banites. Until he does, they are, in every sense of the word.
Sudden alignment/attitude changes are indeed frowned upon, and with good reason. I share your worries there. Again, I believe it is ultimately up to the DMs to judge. (they are the ones changing the alignments)

@Dead: There are bounds. It is not hard to miss the point or the general sense of a faction's role/character. What I am trying to say is : These inaccuracies are best dealt with IC action (IC actions, IC consequences) and not OOC arguing. IC "punishment" will teach them a lesson well learned.
But I can see the problem. I falsely presumed that the players have at least a basic understanding of related lore. Yes, if they outright ignore lore and roll a Tyrran that acts like a Tyrant ... have an ooc chat :-p

I believe Jyro X's reply complements my above post. Well said.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Sorry, wasn't faction bashing, or rather didn't mean it as such.

More a confusion at it in general, as it happens in PnP and such to. The conversion from a Choatic god to a Lawful god.

It's really quite simple. Neutral Evil. One step from Bane and one step from Cyric, but accepted by both. Now, a cleric making the jump would be a different matter all together, however.

Non-Existant Faction?

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