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ShortSlasher

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 3:39 AM

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Joined: 21 May 2007
Location: Western Mass

Could someone direct me to it?

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:51 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

It does not appear to be explictly written down anywhere I see, which is a fault. But the standing rule, as it has been for some time, is that you can hold a PC against their OOC will for 24 hours, after which you must arrange their freedom OOCly if they demand it. It is not a rule I like enforcing (but I do enforce it) since it lauds the triumph of the OOC and the complaint against the legitimate IC and seems to be abused more than legitimately used, but there it is.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:55 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I have added it to the Rules and Lore forum under the PvP header, section 16.

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Nekhy

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:55 AM

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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam

Or if you have a reason why the prisoners should be kept for longer, ask a DM to keep the imprisonment longer.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:57 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Yes, as always, DMs have the final call and if it is required, we can and have arranged longer detainments, including against the OOC wishes of the captured.

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ShortSlasher

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 6:11 AM

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Joined: 21 May 2007
Location: Western Mass

Alrighty, thank ya very much!

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:17 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Hrrmm... There are many rules that aren't added im afraid.

As the "Do not posses familiar and enter banned areas"
or the "Do not practice Wizard duels; because from what i've heard it's "learning to exploit".
Or the "Do not Portalcamp; aka - Do not stand around portals and wait for people to drop in"

All those, if they are right or not, should be added.

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Selvec Darkon

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:24 AM

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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

If it's not there then I would confirm the rule with a DM Svensk, as some players on the server like to make up BS and spout it as law.

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Yurell

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:29 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Very_Svensk wrote:

or the "Do not practice Wizard duels; because from what i've heard it's "learning to exploit".

I've never heard of that one ... can you expand?

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:43 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Never heard of it either, until before when i was told basically.

Yurell

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:49 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

I think I'd need a DM to tell me that, because it seems stupid not being able to practise combat, especially since it's a very IC thing to do.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 10:52 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Yes.

Mind, Im not trying to be offensive towards the DM Team, I -to- want clarification.

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 11:25 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Yurell wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

or the "Do not practice Wizard duels; because from what i've heard it's "learning to exploit".

I've never heard of that one ... can you expand?

Alright. I know exactly where this is coming from because I'm the one that handled it and I just want to say I'm fantastically disappointed in the both of you for doing this and even spreading your skewed half to other players. That's entirely unprofessional.

One of you at least has my MSN. I expect it used. This is uncalled for and unacceptable. You do not undemrine a DM ruling by spreading "Your version" among other players in an attempt to sow dissent.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 11:30 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

No. I want to know, Because there's enough rumours circulating, The Wizard duel thing is one of them. Would be nice to have it on blank paper, here on the forums, so the rumours can STOP.

Edit: Ps - "The both of you", means "Very_Svensk" alone. Yurell was only responding with a "huh?" basically.

Yurell

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 11:36 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Both of us? I was just asking for clarification - I've never been told to stop a wizard's duel.

And ftr, I added you to MSN ages ago ... I believe it's tormaksaberatyahoodotcom. You've never appeared online so either that address is wrong or you didn't accept the invitation.

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Craig deathwalker

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 11:46 AM

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Joined: 04 Jun 2006

I wouldnt mind a nitty gritty rule section, I had no idea about the capture rule and ive been playing amia for a number of years. I wonder how m uch more I dont know.

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StandingBehindYou

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:03 PM

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Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Craig deathwalker wrote:

I wouldnt mind a nitty gritty rule section, I had no idea about the capture rule and ive been playing amia for a number of years. I wonder how m uch more I dont know.

I was 90% sure that I had seen it written down before. It's possible I just heard it in-game and misremembered it, but it's sort of weird.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:05 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Mhm... i, myself, have just "heard" of these rules and never got them confirmed.

Stamping them on the forum seems a good way to get Clarification straight away and enlighten the entire playerbase at the same time.
If i am wrong it's good, because then i have learned something new.

Trial and error.

Uncle-Opustus

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 12:10 PM

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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland

Or then you can just release the prisoner whenever it wants to. There's no point in holding one as a prisoner, if the player doesn't want to.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 13:32 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Or then you can just release the prisoner whenever it wants to. There's no point in holding one as a prisoner, if the player doesn't want to.

Sounds like a good rule i would like to implement when the EO Captures certain necromancers.
It might ACTUALLY make people fear us on an occ level. Instead of the "Get's up 2 min afterwards".

Arcane9999

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 13:45 PM

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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Location: Retired from Amia

Very_Svensk wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Or then you can just release the prisoner whenever it wants to. There's no point in holding one as a prisoner, if the player doesn't want to.

Sounds like a good rule i would like to implement when the EO Captures certain necromancers.
It might ACTUALLY make people fear us on an occ level. Instead of the "Get's up 2 min afterwards".

Now, excuse the question, but who would want to wreak OOC fear? Last time I checked, Amia was a place you could have fun in.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 13:56 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

World domination, my friend.. World domination. :twisted:

ainjyll

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 13:59 PM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

Azdrerios wrote:

Now, excuse the question, but who would want to wreak OOC fear? Last time I checked, Amia was a place you could have fun in.

I think he's trying to say that it might put a damper on the "I'm not afraid of anything." type of player who'll spout off in the face of overwhelming odds just because they know on an OOC level that nothing can happen to their character. If they get pk'd, they can get up a minute or two later. If they get taken hostage, they can get out in a maximum of 24 hours. There's no real consequence.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 14:19 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

ainjyll wrote:

Azdrerios wrote:

Now, excuse the question, but who would want to wreak OOC fear? Last time I checked, Amia was a place you could have fun in.

Can i hire you as my official speaker? You're saying things so right, when im saying them so wrong. :wink:

ainjyll

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 18:50 PM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

Very_Svensk wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

Azdrerios wrote:

Now, excuse the question, but who would want to wreak OOC fear? Last time I checked, Amia was a place you could have fun in.

Can i hire you as my official speaker? You're saying things so right, when im saying them so wrong. :wink:

This just happens to be something that I've discussed with people numerous times. Trust me... on a normal topic, I'd probably just make myself and everyone else more confused.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 18:56 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Very_Svensk wrote:

Hrrmm... There are many rules that aren't added im afraid.

As the "Do not posses familiar and enter banned areas"
Or the "Do not Portalcamp; aka - Do not stand around portals and wait for people to drop in"

All those, if they are right or not, should be added.

Can a DM explain these then. I have, personally, broke these rules. So it would be nice with clarification.

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 21:38 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Umm, they seem pretty clear right there? Don't possess your familiar and go into areas you're banned form, and don't be a dick and attack people coming out of portals because have the time they're still on a loading screen.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 22:10 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Why do i even try...

LordAzack

Posted: Wed, Apr 14 2010, 22:13 PM

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Joined: 11 Nov 2007

hows about you not hijack a topic, and make your own seperate one?

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TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 3:12 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Yurell wrote:

Nothing to do with you an Svensk. Everything to do with the two wizards who know who they are. I assumed my post made that clear.

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Wyjyn

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:16 AM

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Joined: 11 Jan 2007

TormakSaber wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

or the "Do not practice Wizard duels; because from what i've heard it's "learning to exploit".

I've never heard of that one ... can you expand?

lol just read this topic, I find it quite funny really.

Anyway, to the main point of refuting this, here is what you did wrong tormak and what is truly unprofessional, i will detail it:

Myself and another player used an exploit of some variety which is not publically listed and is an exploit which is not super severe and could be come across accidentally. You turned up and said stop doing it, informing us that it is considered an exploit, after which point we stopped. All of that is a fact and fine, where you made a mistake is making a value judgement on what caused us to be using said exploit.

There were two possibilities: We were just legitimately doing wizard duels ICly and accidently came across it unaware that it was considered an OOC exploit or we were just teaching each other known OOC exploits. You could not really have known either of the above to be true, but you choose the second one as truth regardless. The big problem with this is that there was someone else witnessing the whole thing, we were actually originally testing the greater thunderclap transmutation page which I had just bought off a member of the Eternal Order from the tavern in Cordor if you want to confirm the RP, but you just wouldnt listen and were such a damn one track mind on the exploit thing.

Personally, I basically just thought you were a noob and forgot about the whole thing like 15 minutes later. However, if lathandier wants to complain to other players about it it is fine to my mind because you were being a bit silly. All you had to do was describe in what manner we were exploiting, tell us to stop and answer a few fairly easy questions. You did not have to make the inference that we were deliberately exploiting, and the funny part is that you presumed that I was teaching lathandier the exploit lol, when it just as well could have been the other way around and ICly actually was really. Your assumptions were the problem, and were offensive really because A: they assumed the worst and B: they assumed that it couldnt possibly be lathandier teaching me! (I dont mind this assumption though:D:D) If I cared more, I would probably have complained further and am not suprised that lathandier is.

EDIT: I also hope you have not banned people over stuff like this, because it wouldnt suprise me if there are a whole bunch of illegitimate bans.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:26 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I don't care how or why you do it, I told you to stop, because it is an exploit. And as a DM ruling, I expect it to be followed. Everything else is secondary. Why you did it has no bearing. Absolutely none. Why a rule is broken pretty much never matters. The rule is still broken. When a DM asks you to stop exploiting something, you stop exploiting it. You do not go on to argue the Ic, which has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

FYI: Your witness agreed with me.

I, however, find it fantastically inappropriate for either of you to be spreading slander and rumors through the playerbase.

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Wyjyn

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:43 AM

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Joined: 11 Jan 2007

No, that isnt the problem. The problem is that the exploit is not listed in the rules, we were not aware it was an exploit but you assumed we were deliberately exploiting.

I do not know for certain, but I am guessing that where lathandier has an issue is with the 'you assumed we were deliberately exploiting' part. Like seriously, if we knew it was an OOC exploit why would we practice it IC, against each other, on amia? Why not practice it on an external server, then use it in real pvp to win? You assumed it was a deliberate attempt at exploiting, when we honestly were not even aware it was an exploit. You can check through the chat logs for all I care.

I am not having you do some ridiculous thing were you accuse us of exploiting and try to get us in trouble for no valid reason. Call whoever in, call nekh, lets have it out. Get the chat logs, including my tells for all I care. Your mistake wasnt calling exploit, your mistake was calling it deliberate. That is what I am guessing lathandier is annoyed about, your assumption of its deliberate nature. Get the chat logs. I want this really clearly placed on record that it wasnt deliberate, we just stumbled across it.

EDIT: also, if the witness in question believes we were deliberately OOCly exploiting game mechanics, let her say it right now on the forums. I am getting very annoyed OOCly at this now, if anyone wants to accuse me of deliberately exploiting nwn game mechanics do it right now with proof of the deliberate intent or shut up.

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Last edited by Wyjyn on Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:45 AM, edited 1 time in total.

TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:44 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

That's ncie if you just stumbled on it. That's fine. I asked you to not do it anymore. Seems solved.

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Grymia

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 7:59 AM

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Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada

Forgive the observation but: There's probably a reason the exploit is not publically listed, I imagine as a means to keep people from using it.

TormakSaber

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 8:00 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Exploits are typically not listed for that exact reason. You see a lot of other games do it as well, for the same reasons. We don't publicize exploits, we just fix them or rule if they are or are not an exploit to begin with.

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phalanxyrian

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 10:07 AM

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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: under your bed (the netherlands)

The thing about this 24 hour rule thing I hate are the people who dont want to get either killed (and divinely respanwed in a place where they are free) or rp the fact their in prison and log off with a mediocre excuse the very moment they are loced up. I had this a few times while playing my inquisitor.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 10:39 AM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

phalanxyrian wrote:

A few times??? A -lot- of times in my opinion. A majority of the server can't take IC consequences properly.

Nex_addo

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 10:45 AM

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Joined: 08 May 2007
Location: New Zealand

Quote:

if anyone wants to accuse me of deliberately exploiting nwn game mechanics do it

Can I?

Craig deathwalker

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 11:23 AM

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Joined: 04 Jun 2006

Very_Svensk wrote:

phalanxyrian wrote:

A few times??? A -lot- of times in my opinion. A majority of the server can't take IC consequences properly.

Practice what you preach, useually helps.

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HellScourge

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 11:30 AM

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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1

Very_Svensk wrote:

phalanxyrian wrote:

A few times??? A -lot- of times in my opinion. A majority of the server can't take IC consequences properly.

I had the tables turned on me once in a situation like this.

I was willing but my captor had to log off.

Which reminds me.. that storyline did never resolve itself.. I think he left Amia. *shrug*

Eithercase, a bit offtopic but still part to the topic, I had once someone who claimed they could not truely die and if they die would they would just be transported to the nearest temple (Reminder to all of these fellows. Respawning is NOT an IC mechanic, and this is a very very close case of God gaming to me. And believe me, you don't want others to Godgame you just so that it is "fair", else we will have a spiral of godgaming and doom)
You are dead, your corpse/unconscious body is where it is. You wake up somewhere else and someone did pick you up and carried you there.

And to the topic, I always am up for capture, hell, the times I was captured were intensely fun.
My tiefling captured by Drow and ready to be tortured? They thought she was a worshiper of Loviatar because she berated them for their torture methods!
My Druid? Lost a battle against Hort (Yes, that Hort, pre-banite Hort) and got captured. She was a captive to the whole Hobgoblin tribe but then Hort went banite and took her with her. I really had a blast Rping that part. If she would've just said "I am immune, hah. You can't keep me." then things would never have been that fun.

All these insecurities, all these faults, all these little doubts you can have when you are captured (Will someone save me? When will they save me? Will they able to save me) really enhance it, and they give the captor a feeling of having something accomplished.

Remember, RPing is not just about you, its about making the other feel good too! So don't be selfish and share... wait, that somehow sounds wrong.

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blackvswhite

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 12:03 PM

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Joined: 08 Nov 2008

TormakSaber wrote:

never in my life have I been able to play for 24 hours straight, nor will I...

Geld Yaztran

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 12:59 PM

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Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Strange.....and ironic...that so many players of goodly factions complain about lack of fear and not adhering to imprisonment...

Especially considering the two rules in question (24 hr rule and lack of death penalties) were made intially to protect you gooly folk from the bad guys...

So please spare the comments that paint a picture that almost every player...goodly or no...never follows.

You say that every Necr, monster, ie shows no fear.....HA! I have yet to see any single EO member, paladin, goodly folk of any kind in fact, show even a hint of fear....not for themselves or even for their friends..

so please spare the bull...cause there's no such thing as taking a child for a hostage and saying "move and the kid dies!"...

HA! Every goodly folk in the area will buff up without regards for the other characters life..knowing they can be healed/raised/resurrected or what have you.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Furthermore it is actually the goodly folk who began this whole "I fear nothing" attitude....whenever we as bad guys try to do anything remotely next to trying to instill fear....something bad guys try a lot more than any good guy...and usually fail at it...due to OOC player stupidness.

Yurell

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 13:09 PM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Geld Yaztran wrote:

You say that every Necr, monster, ie shows no fear.....HA! I have yet to see any single EO member, paladin, goodly folk of any kind in fact, show even a hint of fear....not for themselves or even for their friends..

FTR, p. 44 of the PHB states that Paladins are immune to fear, magical or otherwise.

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Geld Yaztran

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 13:49 PM

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Joined: 05 Jul 2006

And what about fear for others?...or even a modicum of feeling for others....it also states that paladins have a code they must follow....which includes...not moving if it saves anothers life.

Maybe the paladin in question need not be fearful....but at least once in a blue moon stay your hand from your sword instead of trying for the KD when there's some hostage involved.

Also what really urks me....what boils my blood more than most things...

Is this emoted garbage:

*having experienced and seen it all....is unaffected by what he/she sees and/or experiences*

This is by far one of the most petty, trashy, bullcrap excuses for : Showing no fear, showing no feeling, having no feeling, showing no pity, sadness, or ANY negative emotion that isn't strength, fury, or wrath.

Emoting *experienced it all* Is PURE and UTTER garbage.

Especially coming from characters who aren't even a quarter of my characters age IRL, in game, and otherwise.

If your character experienced it all...then what? My character ACTUALLY experienced it all...times two? Or even times five in some characers cases? Even maybe times ten.....

....And even my character as least shown a modicum of if not fear..then concern for others....

The twenty four rule is instilled to keep bad instances from occuring when a captor decides to take the proverbial mile when a victim gives them the actual inch..or even a few feet.

Too many times....and this is not directed towards anyone in particular snce my chracter has been captured by many factions and imprisoned from EO to Ultrinnan Drow, Cordor, Kholingen and others.

In almost every instance save my Cordor capture(of all places), the captors seem to push the envelope to the very limits of any players ability to cooperate, without something bad coming from it....a large reason I myself ever and always avoid taking prisoners/imposing too much.

Gunz

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 14:03 PM

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Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca

Let's not turn this perfectly legit topic into one that gets locked because of flaming.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 14:36 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Either way. It's nice to have this rule on paper; so that we know of it and may use it. Yay!

Bravo21

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 16:30 PM

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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee

Yurell wrote:

Geld Yaztran wrote:

FTR, p. 44 of the PHB states that Paladins are immune to fear, magical or otherwise.

Fear does not equal consequence.

A paladin, is immune to fear, giving them a moral courage. It does not give a paladin immunity to consequence. If say an evil Blackguard takes a hostage and threatens to kill them, the life or death of the hostage has nothing to do with the relative fear or lack there of. It has everyting to do with the ACTIONS of the paladin in relation to the blackguards threats.

If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about consequence, not fear. If you can't do the time, don't RP the crime. That being said, it's not reasonable to have a PC out of commission without the players consent indefinately. But for the purpose of RP, a time longer than 24 hours is reasonable. There should however be RP involved, not just being OOC stuck in a cage. In my view, lack of attention leads to an early escape after 24 to 48 hours of inactivity, unless there is continued RP in some form to promote my continued incarceration.

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Yurell

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 16:32 PM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Bravo21 wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Geld Yaztran wrote:

FTR, p. 44 of the PHB states that Paladins are immune to fear, magical or otherwise.

The part quoted was about fear. I was responding to that alone.

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ainjyll

Posted: Thu, Apr 15 2010, 16:44 PM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

There is a certain frustration that comes from the Superman captives, as I like to call them. You capture someone, have them locked up and are threatening to do all sorts of nasty things to them and they laugh. Fine, I can get with bravado. Then you start doing the nasty things and they're emoting *laughs in the face of pain* or whatever. I just snipped the character's hamstring to keep them from running away... there is no laughing at that. I've torn my hamstring when I was playing football and it was one of the most painful things I've every experienced. I never tell people how to RP their characters, but when that happens, I don't want to keep them around. Kill 'em and toss 'em.

I know it can be a tad trying to be on the receiving end of capture RP, I've had my characters captured and imprisoned before, once for 3 days (I had just started playing on Amia and had no idea about the rule). But it's not always me, me, me, me, me. Sometimes, as a responsible player, you have to set your own fun aside for a moment and let someone else have their fun.

_________________

"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

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24 hour rule for capture?

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